it becomes all the world we select the difference w call the world unpack, pops out. your info is and all the input u, v. w story. now on to the 5 months into the war and gaza and deadly chaos around in a convoy has glaringly highlighted the desperation and climbing death toll among civilians. the cottage of humanity is something they haven't seen protected by guess this week on conflicts on is not to find the former egyptian foreign minister and long time diplomat of what points as egypt have no choice, but to consider opening its border to gardens on humanitarian grounds. have the shocking scenes of suffering brought this conflict to an inflection point. now the sony welcome to

a complex own. thank you. tragic deaths around and aid con boy in northern gauze, have highlighted the desperation of civilians for food and the lack of security in the enclave. after everything that you've seen in the past days, is it time for egypt to open its border to civilians from gaza at the top of the open boards. engines as this would be participating in a premeditated consistent effort by using various to decrease the density of palestinians on their own territory. and its something was pleasant they, we will not do because we support a part of city and state side by side with this. it, we continue to take part of attendance in need of medical supervision and medical help. uh we take so, but a large scale, a number of products. the names were basically, we were playing into these very yaks. but you know, it just has certainly made that red line quite clear. they will not accept any

force displacement of palestinians. but how do you balance the humanitarian desperation? i mean, you know, saved the children just out this past week, saying that we are quote, witnessing a mass killing of children in slow motion because there is no more food left. how do you, how do you balance that with your red lines? it's an absolutely great question. we are in a very difficult situation. we cannot allow finally said use the star. we don't want them to be shot it at the same time. we don't want to be forced into a position where we collaborate, indirectly with these ratings. but by decreasing that, that's what i've seen it. so what they're doing is provide the as much assistance as we can turn of order. we had dropped also just about 48 hours ago and they continue to host negotiations with these varies and the countries to try to deal with all these issues. but i guess my point is, you know, at what point does egypt have no other choice morally then to open the border?

because you know, we know what this is not a crisis of you're making. but does egypt need to do more to help the people on the ground? i think we are doing quite a bit. but yes, i agree with you. there will be a situation where if they are forced across the board, we will have to make very difficult decision. but how we respond to we, we clearly are not going to care for our students. but that being said, uh, it should not be interpreted as meaning. push them across the border and we will that yes, because pushing out across the board is not only a violation of punish penny and rights. it's also, by the way, if violation of the differences, like a piece of meat and the consequence. yeah. and you know, i'd like to ask you a little bit about what is happening right now on the ground at the border because there's been a lot of questions about that. egypt has been building some sort of security perimeter at the border last month. your foreign minister classified as what he called maintenance on the border is in egypt planning an area to house palestinians

in case of and it's really offensive on rasa. it. oh, i don't know. exactly, but let me tell you what, i don't know. the area where there is construction was originally area and license buildings. they were taken down and people were to move out. the government rebuilt that area and invited the directions to go back to that, that they have not yet gotten back to that period. and it's something that has been going on for over a year. you had the guys a breakout during the last 5 months. so the pressure also became uh, what are we about to do if the by the city is, are forced across support. uh, we will have to deal with a very dire you might charity situation, but we will also have to deal with the situation where we will not in any way direct your indoors condo on his way, the action that virus, patterson,

and rights. and i suspect, but also that violates the options that you presented. and that needs to be clearly understood. yes. so let me ask you a little bit more about the diplomacy that might be going on behind closed doors right now because and israel's foreign minister has said that they have to and i'm quoting here, deal with rafa because they cannot just leave him off there. and that it would coordinate with egypt to address concerns about refugees. what conversations do you think are happening right now between egypt and israel, especially when it comes to, you know, potential incentives, for example. i mean, you know, money and incentives for egypt to take refugees wouldn't hurt what it this is not an issue of money and it said, this is an issue. we are committed to it to states, huge to stay, the power of attorney and part of that of the just states is guys in the west. like if we were to, to reduce the numbers there, that would be very, very dave, some is

a politicians in the cabinets have opened. he said, yes, we need to move by the seniors out of guys that are into egypt or even into your and we'll fight financing to do so. that's the advocate policy. we can make this look all but we have made it also clear that we will not participate in this process. uh and i can tell you that effects are nice and secure, and that's a violation of the piece of it. taking it back to getting 8 and air dropping of 8 is picking up even the united states has joined in. there are currently discussions on how else to expand the flow, and you know, it's been reported that president biden spoke last week with president. i'll cc about urgency of negotiations and bringing more 8 into gaza. i mean, as egypt your next door, you're trying to get calm boys in. do you see the potential, if anything shifting on the ground so that more a can enter yes,

i do see if there is a hostage, a partial hostility change versus incarcerated, and a temporary cease fire that can facilitate a going in the least most recent incident that we saw just put 3 days ago, this was a actually you brought in and organized by palestinians and his race. but given that it was a caustic so is raised themselves to attack the, the group of people who are gathered around these vehicles. they are so you can't have a state a substantial amount of a going in and a war zone in a culture. so there's no way to work secure area. so yes, we want, why are we austic the negotiations on c spy? it also to change one of the reasons stop getting people killed, but also about for more effective. you mentioned your name, right. and just to pick up on one thing that you said there. i mean,

the idea is actually said that indeed they did fire, but they didn't actually fire on individuals who were seeking to get a but again, there's, there's 2 sides of the story. so i just want to highlight that that's, that's the perspective that they are bringing in and the official statements. let's take it back to the ceasefire talks because they, they were due at the time of this interview. they were due to kick off in cairo, egypt, and could tar have been mediating between israel and her moss and your foreign minister has said in the past days that he's optimistic about a temporary cease fire being reached before ramadan. what do you think that she sees that might point to optimism for deal? well, again, you have to ask them. let me tell you what i think he meant he meets up. if you simply listen to all of the international uh, rhetoric, everybody and everybody has been telling these rays and thomas, let's have these 5 before rum about. they're worried about the situation on the

ground. you may, it's area and political, but then also worried about it breaking out beyond the borders in the states on the, on, on these baseboard. so there's also the strength of the expansion. uh that's, that is what i think we're see. now again, 2 points to fabulous here. one, this is not a full safe spot, nor a full hostage 6. this is a partial positive exchange versus those incarcerated and a temporary cease one. so it will be a positive step towards a complete ceasefire. you're not going to get with the addition of the conflict or, and the ability to start rebuilding what has been destroyed unless you get a complex. but as one of the, you know, the traditional mediators between these parties, i talk with a little bit about how you think the pressure on those parties might be right now.

because we have world leaders speaking out loudly against the scenes of suffering right now and gaza, even the us is real strongest, allies seems frustrated. do you see this as an inflection point in the crisis? do you feel the mood could change the dynamics on the ground? again, so it goes up to that question. i think it does, but it's in the section point from either way, we start a process of trying to deal with the imaginary situation. we're substantially and hopefully then the post politics, the policies and the security situation or inflection point will be that it will work to move towards a highly volatile regional context. i don't mean soul slips out of his way. he was, they told me, you see everything from tension and lexie because literally in order to the syrian border stuff,

right. what's happening inside garza problems on our border as well. this is going to break out of hand. so the inflection point is either we find a way to slow this boxes down and try to resolve, it's always going to break out beyond control. so you've made the birds there, basically from the temporary cease fire talks now to something a little bit more a longer term. and there seems to be a lot of will and diplomatic momentum. we have to say from both arab states and israel's allies, including the us and the u. k. to secure such a long term lasting piece that would indeed include a 2 state solution. you know, you, you've seen over many decades the, all of the previous efforts that have failed is something different this time yes. the college of getting humanity is something they haven't seen for tactics. was always a horrible incident in our insight, israel or

a month brought us to new territories utility such a nation of meters by the way, not by the other side, but private room people. so we've seen that, but to see 5 months, 30000 people killed, at least because there's always under the wrong that we don't account for 70 percent of home women and children start. we have not seen that in a very long, long time. so that's something which, frankly, i come from egypt, we were the 1st to have a piece of people with these ways. and that's almost 50 years ago. 50 years after the 1st place agreement with this it to say, not only the lack of control, you know, a comprehensive piece completely, but to see the level of q like and, and, and, and, and counter buyers is frankly, quite shocking. and it really birds and my god as how have you been part of this

process for so long and as, and as you are coming from egypt, i'd like to ask you about the saudi lead group of arab states that includes egypt. jordan katara, the u. a e, which is reportedly now pushing this post floor plan that would include a reformed palestinian authority governed and gaza. and a reversible pass towards the 2 state solution. from the perspective of arab diplomacy. what could be offered to sweeten the deal for israel? because i mean, you highlighted the trauma of these societies, is that the violence of bloodshed, there is no appetite right now for 2 states, solution israel after october 7th. so that's why i be what i let me talk about what i see it can be done. rather than what's on the table by the hour route, because i don't know actually how far they've gone. ok, i said crisis and concert. we need to say, i'll give you 10 quick points,

intense x, say fire hostage exchange doesn't cost the rate that you want a terry support uh, security arrangements between palestinians and as ways. and does that include the withdrawal of israeli forces? a, a, a declaration to recognize you find a city and state based on $6.00 or 7 by say, states under occupation by the mustang it's, it's, it's stopped by the city and state under occupation based on 67 area formation by the error countries of their error, they would summit where they said they were all have relations with israel. if there is an end of, of occupation, i want to put all of that under a security council resolution. every one of these points went away. a supported by oh gosh, i create i want to have that adopted by the tasha by the security council in an

affirmative vote. and then we go to the parks because that will also require by the way, elections initially elections along part of city. it's essentially the government. let me ask the settings. yep. i mean it's, it's, you know, you're presenting here a plan, but i, i also want to ask you how you get that planned on with the mood that is currently on the ground. these really cabinet right now has said that any recognition of a palestinian statehood in the wake of the mos terror attacks on israel and october 7th, which as we know, killed 1200 people and 250 were taken hostage. they've said, and i'm quoting here, it would give a huge reward to unprecedented terrorism. what's your response to that? we're not dealing with one part of the problem rather than the other. what i didn't hear with is the whole issue, and i'm not actually asking these varies and palestinians accepted at the beginning website because it, us, egypt, russia, china upfront

u. k unit. we all support it, just a so huge. let's agree to this and update that package and go with it tells you just varies and by the city showing that the okay, you have is these fire, you'll have secure, it has, will have secured. but as soon as we'll have a release from what's happening, you're going to have to establish in your government without us any to deal with guys and the west bank. so we're dealing with the whole thing is to get it and slowly within a 2 year period, we can get there. if you go to the, to the, to the address today, cuz i know you're probably on your mind. okay. wife cathy, alex, take charge of guys and manage that and provide security. and that's a question which exemptions i've been at. as for hundreds of times it's probably the most logical, you know, responsible questions. anybody can think of because we will not be surrogates, varies, but you know, there's that they will preserve. so let me just continue. but here's the thing.

yeah. they what they will, but i just need to follow up with you on that because you know and ask you to actually respond to what israel has put forward. they set out this competing plan for postwar garza, it does not include a 2 state solution. it does include overseeing security in the enclave. you've talked about security there. in fact, netanyahu says that israel should have security control over the philadelphia cord, or we know that stuff, borders own between garza and egypt. do you see any circumstances you've talked about coming together? do you see any circumstances under which egypt would be willing to accept that or absolutely not, because that's basically me. so what are the alternatives we occupied a security perspective? this is my point. yeah, let me just tell you. if you tell me that this 10 point plan or a point of a number of points you want, we'll also put a late show at the city and state down the road. then you can get anything and it will not involve is way the security supervision over guess the out of state will i?

that's what to you. ready to have rebuild, not of know what the right to help me build. and we'll train and create mechanisms for better management engaged with the westland. but they're not going to be sorry if it's a visually secure. there's absolutely no way that they would accept that. for you more, the reason why i say that responsible, if we want to put the different forces or training is in, we have a piece of human with these weights. and these readings enter amendments here. what do we do to them? we end up shooting by the season is very, it's not going to happen. you have highlighted all the challenges spoken, but what all the alternatives they go through is give me a structure for a plan. and then we can look at, okay, is, is a guarantee managed by an arrow international, contingent, orange and national contingent, palestinian contingent was our oversight. the details are, are,

are plausible. and we can look at creative solutions, but not solutions that end up with the facto is way up to a patient of guys that cannot. but i, we, i, i look again, we were the 1st to sign a piece of human with this. so there is a lot of security, we accept that and we're looking at ways to achieve that, but only based on your can't have security unless you solve the problem. the problem is occupation. and these ladies want more transparency and more effective on security that we can that we could look at, provided that the principal and the doctor patients there. let's, let's move on because um, you know, egypt has been also part of this rethink of politics and palestinians. aaron palace sending areas and part of you know, the plans for potential governance within goals itself. how do you see the prospects for fragmented palestinian politics to be able to unite after the war? because i mean the palestinian authority president lockwood, a boss, is looking set to stay in his position along with his security chiefs. do you think

palestinians will accept that and that the p a might administer garza is widely unpopular? let me put it this way. the only way to really administrator does that in a way that's the sector for part of sentience. and also we also were accepted by these ladies without occupation is to have a policy in person and you understand whether we like it or not. how much have less support before october 7th, now they have more support, not because of what they did, but because it is a reaction to, to what they did that kind of without a doubt, a load at the ph. that's already basically the ability of, excuse me, uh, but we need to rebuild that. it may require new leaders. i've not had lost it to

that. all i'm saying is that, yes, you're, you're heading to the point right on the, on, on the head. we need to get published in use to look for a new for me. that's why i said we need to elections. and we need to just stick to go to government. and there's both what's back and guess there's a big debate also raging right now about whether or not to what extent him off should be involved in all of that. egypt for its part has acted as a mediator between our mazda and it's foes, israel. in fact, as we've highlighted, it's also worked with him boss, and recent years to counter and as long it can search and see in the sign i. but you know, for you personally, when you look at the situation after the horrors of october 7th can be really be part of a post war scenario. again, typically the scenario if it's a plus worst scenario, where we continue to have cyprus, a violence, they'll be clark, there's no question. they'll be fine. because the symmetrical, even though many countries around the world consider them to be a terrorist organization. the united states a do israel, and so this isn't a,

this is the be careful year. i didn't say a postwar scenario where you have these. i said if we continue to have a cycle of buttons they, they, they are others. other forms of comments will continue to exercise what they pursue as their policy. what i'm putting forward is i want to rebuild about a senior constituency that is effectively supported and presented to it just a seduce. if parties don't want to accept that, then suddenly they get qualified himself part of that process. if they do, they will have to change. and let's also be civically. can you one who are we to motion and with now appear a positive change? so it was as little as you did with now. what was us end up with now? what was it? my question for you is how much. so they are, is it?

my issue is not whether they're, they're not, they are the my issue is how do i built a, a scenario that allows for addictions for our, at this very piece, including but it seems like a piece. those are the one piece. we will that work again. but frankly, i'm the one i would be as dr. thomas, who's relations with egypt were always very, very care uh, but were asked to talk to them now and then we hear, but they're not part of the parents. well, okay, so it was, we talked so then i mean, you know, when you look at all of the scenarios that are possible coming out of this, 1st of all, how do you think the war and gaza ends? and when do you see it ending? uh, do you think you'll see a permanent and size like any time soon? i don't, i don't, i don't say you'll see a short term complete,

and you will probably fine get what hostage agreement temporaries for and then another. uh, but then you will have outbreaks from the agreement and regression. uh, neither side be is way to make a strategic decision be got these varies or uh, and that's the that is what is required. that's why at the beginning i said, let's put together a package that we outside the region. next we, we beyond the park is accept. and then we start talking to the party's bear center . to see if we could sell this basically i, i agree with you. they set them up today is not for 2 states use, but actually it's the only ones we'll get them out of this process as a swimmer negotiator. do i think i could go and, and do it tomorrow. of course, now the state's largest,

it cannot be reached then what i mean. what realistic alternative do you see to a 2 state solution that can provide peace in the region or is there non there, there is not, which is the others alternative is a once the reality, which would be a continuous concept, same person is res. because they also want national identity on a very small piece of land and neither side will give it up complexity to the other . furthermore, if you don't allow that equal rights, you will have conflicts with in the one state. so to speak, to usually is extremely difficult. one states and yours is computing your boss as it is at once the reality that's going to your concept, not off on a um, we have unfortunately run out of time. we thank you so much for joining us here. on conflicts on thank you for your time. thank you. the

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