of the big i'm in their lives are in the middle of it trying every day to report to be i'm trying every day to not bias. why? because the accusations, thoughts, journalists though it's international media organization telling them you put the other say, you know, you pro palestinian and this is every day. and so discussion of them all of us was when one which on which side and that's why i today, i would like to know from my panelist, are the right words to describe what is happening and how can we learn a few words to his response

this is discussing today. let's look at look at the video. it is one thing for us to have a story to tell. and the other thing is how it is being told on the shoulder. to talk about a conflict, apparently divides the world into 2 camps. october 7th, terror attacked by home 3 and the social born guns has polarized the world just covering the israel or are confronted with a completely pension of finance, misinformation, and propaganda. to what extent are we able to portray the suffering of something different? the

4th and then 4th, cnn's tolbert and calder, editor report stories about digital platform barks heads up. and i'm also a very developed work for is there any media outlets on publications like shania was on his welcome mazda for, and director of the art she has previously towards the mazda of you, at the university of versity. so

we want to hear a different voice, and that's why happy to be joined by a palestinian just joining us from. we're supposed to see him now during the list. and you can see he's a journalist and was out there recently in the gaza strip and walked into the door of 7th, the board magistrate back await your work the defendants and actually works close to 4 people up the answer to us. and we'll try to answer the question, so under what approach you? so everyone be awake to the does come to everyone if you would just. so in the

video we, we had thought you very cool what happens on the 7th over the title desktop and see what the core, what's happened. what's the process deposit to be said is better, it's rather close been experienced. ignited exactly the to the us or when the the what happened before? because the idea really the case of many then what's been happening in causing the problem that bubbling tensions for some time now for up to

have a separate instead. that was the case, but it could be some sort of vitamins in place. all right, discussions on wednesday and friday. so it's really important to consider the context when we're talking account different perspectives. so taken into account in this complex cost that does apply what we've type a 7, it was an attack. and it is considered by these really other allies as a terrorist attack. and we have to address that. but at the beginning for the beginning, use it as an editorial line to say, it's an attack bumped expert nicola precisely tetra tech. i mean, or did it within any voice within the, the support in evolving languages that we've used within. but of course, it really just depends on the context on which we're talking about. the, for us to say, this is a terrorist attack. we also use really government citizens to be

a terrorist attack. okay. but when i look at it, we used to turn that like a technical stuff, less the nation deductible. we looked at it just to be the but i think it's important this context effect an institution and. and whenever you, we, we, you know, we never work in a, in a vacuum as, as jonas, we always selves independent and increasing goods and we should and we must be. but that this becomes

a very cute context culture that we're operating. and it doesn't matter if it's in london or at least for processing to, to, to, to set up with that was, it was also to actually, you gotta make a decision decision that had to be made. mm hm. we've been a talk other school, a title, some arabic speaking, the talk is called the events of this and how much is the sci fi buddy and us other target? it is called the resistance has. so what happens is i, i'm sitting in the, in the middle east region. i go to that. so it's an arb speaking media, the core distance, they called the events. and then i just scroll down or i can just kind of talk

to the perception documents of the people that actually to the, that, that it's not about joe palace class. the flight buys this action to what that means, whether about a thing else. but as we know of every book, you know, the ad, they watch the know a how outlet, 3 things things. what that means as individuals, it's our typically by accident we can build a text as the

yeah, but the thing is what's the reaction of the people on the ground when they talk to you when you listen to them, but do they tell you because there is a discussion about how different media outlets are covering what's happened. well, the people are the different, i mean, those people who believe the in the action, you know, in favor of what happened. and on october 7, they would defend it and they listen and watch or read the media outlets that they are in favor of that which is very obvious. and for those who are agnes, they want to criticize the other outlets that they are in favor off and they go for

different media outlets. it's uh it's, it's so obvious when i talk to people in garza or outside, but a student is, will fled from garza, they, they go to the outlet that they meet there, there and uh, opinions more than anything they, they watch what others say in, in, in in a, in a, in a way to criticize more then you know, less i think would be and also also been hearing i'm, after they've told the 7th is when i personally talk to some palestinians, is them. they criticize the media for not talking enough about what was happening to the posting and before what they said, the 7th book told this, would you underline that that the media now is putting it as it happened to 74? not before the context. yeah, i would agree with that. the international media has found it far too easy to ignore the occupation and to ignore what was happening, both in gaza and on the west bank. and in that sense, i suppose,

but in that sense only, i can understand the temptation of some people to call it an active resistance. however, i'm experiencing a lot of cognitive dissonance at the moment because we just saw a 10 minute performance, a very powerful performance of what it is like, particularly for women to live in an islamist society and the those who are referring to a moss. i mean, one has even, you know, the things that look as if they could be jokes, queers for her mazda, etc, etc. those who are considering her months to be in some sense, um, liberatory organization are i few are dividing the world into tribal list categories that we really, that,

that do not help us in the least. it is not the one that need not raise the israeli government, the bombing of gaza, or the occupation for the last 53 years in order to coal. what happened on october 7th, a massacre? it was a massacre. it was a war crime. any time you know, murder to, i'm sorry, 1200 women and children and men in gruesome and bloody ways. it's a massacre. i don't see why we can't both acknowledge that and say that these rarely governments response, which i'm us had to of course, entirely calculated is equally award crime. those are not incompatible things to

say we are you mention, you mentioned what crime which is this amiga term. it's so when do you think donors should use legal terms? what till now there's no court that decided that it is. it's a work i would like to ask for, but, but i get back to you. it comes from a country that has always recognized the right of the palestinian people to their own state. what's called a 2 state solution. and yet india, i'm the indian media guided to rise. what happened on the 7th of october, as a tentative tech. i agree with that. number 22. i agree with what susan just said. i think the polarization is unnecessary. i'm self inflicted by the media coming from a police off a kind of either. busy or illogical bias on either side of the trenches that is not

necessary. and let me just say, i did have the opportunity to report from is rarely the immediate aftermath of the attacks of october 7th. it's unfortunate, i couldn't go to the cause of that, that time nobody could enter a god says to now i don't see the keyboards and the sort of remains off of you know, what it has been done to little children and women. often times civilians would advocated for peace with the palestinian people. this is very important to remember at that time coming from a country that is also in an isolated way being that the receiving end of federalism with the word barely noticing. i think the india and response and the response of the ended media was one way. but just to add one sentence, i know i'm taking up more time as the concept went along. as we saw him, nathaniel who responded as we saw people out in the streets in his right against this. and you know, as we saw what was happening to women and children in gaza, the moral compass shifted. the moral compass does show,

why would you call what's happening now in gaza? a massacre of civilians. faith based on what is right, had the rights to retaliate, to homos that to the technician did not include the right to punish those what are in this, against the whole months sunny we have one perception of what's happening, how or this really media covering when we talk know what's happening and gaza it's, it's simply put they don't cover because i don't unfortunately many of my dear colleagues and these are and i find to be between the role and thinking what's happening as a to these really public. but we need to remember one thing when he talk about is really is and where they are. we are now it's months after this started and is really that still stuck in october. they are very much there. october 7th is still

very much align the leading is really news brought the customer yesterday, had a 20 minutes magazine story about one of another, many of the examples of what happened, a busy one of the small keep it seems next to guys of it is really is a still free living that from again and again and again, not to mention many i still this place from their homes is still what's happening and then north important or so on. there's still also controversy brewing within these really society. but i'm, these really media find itself still drawn to that partially because personal stories are easier to tell in or easier, you know, to grasp people's attention with partially because when he comes to ideology, ideology, political issues that are on the table the, this course in israel's become so polarized that it's really hard to do with it without being marked as a traitor or a left is but is where it is

a student living with toby 7th. and in that essence, i mean, when we keep that in mind, it also helps us understand why it's so hard. so maybe you the things that would look rationally more probable to happen when it comes to political, to any other processes when it comes to constructive building. of the future of what's happening in gaza and for is really is, this is why is really so not really there yet. they're not right for that discussion because they're still in the motional phase of dealing with that. but i have, they don't have monopoly of a pain and trauma and struggle with housing, terrible things and all that. but i'm telling you where is where these are for themselves. now the population and the people. but why do you think the media is not covering what's happening in god? oh, so that has an effect on what's going up. well, 1st of all, i don't think in the recent years is where does that mean to, to not to tuned up to posting invoices, them to what's happening in the past and inside period. and i think after october

7th, especially this became a bigger challenge to be able to tune into other people's suffering or narrative. it's when you are so still very much hurting and consumed by your own but, but then it's also at the same time, does a technical limitations of, of access there that can only be done through these really ideas spokesperson unit . but there's the un giving a lot of people would receive the you and reports so, so being it is read the media. and so you and report, you know that the human rights organizations, you and w s. b again, is really, is a very much feeling. the world is against them. they feel that this moment october 7th was, was such a turning point. it's such a moment of deep crisis because i think so many is rarely even those who pursue peace. they've always felt that discussion was around 1967. that is, the, the discussion was on whether is really borders as you know, with the settlements that the occupations or are these legitimate or not can to

find a solution to make it happen. and following tobar 7th, those are reckoning by many is really is, are or so it seems that the discussions about 1948, it's about the very existence of the state of israel should or shouldn't be, you know, phrase. but as of course, it's not a question, but they feel the world is, is posing that question of the very legitimacy of the state of israel. and this brings everybody to unite together. because if feel the world is against them and is very, there's a still very much in this place of us against the world. and in many ways, all the international pressure actually feeds into that. because it justifies that stand of nobody sees us and understands us. when you, when you, you mentioned that that, that some arts as to let the 7th of october, if we talk to a simians husband and then they would say why no one is mentioning what's happened before that you were an in gaza. you had to evacuate when you were in, in, in guys how was the response? how was, how were to people talking about what happened and, and also,

where are you able to work freely in guys and report on what's going on. uh uh yeah, it wasn't garza, i was a told me. it was like, uh, every morning when it happened. i spend like about almost a month and goes, i tell god roughly, it was open and i fled with my family. it was horrible. i good misplaced 5 times myself and my house at the time in the day one the, the windows were smashed as well. it was frightening. and when those were a lazy, a response to started. um, yes, i mean i can say i know guys, well, i'm on experience you on a list i'm, i'm, i'm working in the field anymore than 20 years. so i was, and i can't say i am in a free country and it's a free speech. but i was free to, to, to cover what, what's happening. i mean,

from the palestinian side that we, we, we, we cover things even when i left, you know, i still approached people and we took a free lease. some people are open and speak freely. some people are very cautious and, and very uh, you know, a careful when they speak and i'm not because only because of, from us but also because of these really action. so people are divided and as well, like in, in goals are, there was blood organization, people in the beginning, they didn't understand what's happening. they thought that was, i mean, as they is way these are hating, palistine is still, but the students are, are believe the, and they hate the is where it is. and they, many people where, where, where i got celebrating what have been and that was very all these individuals. but it's too many people were shocked and they didn't expect. and now it's very

obvious if you see and look at the landscape of reaction from dallas out, there is a huge criticism, atkins, thomas, but i mean, in the same time they are not justifying what these, what you the army is doing in gaza. but i mean, in social media, people's very brave political on and preach to insulting some, some come us figures, but in the same time they are still some people in favor of what time us of the link and the awesome them to keep fighting against the troops and gaza, one of the discussions, it's also happening and happening the last month. it's the debate about the genocide or not the agenda. we see some uh, some media outlets deciding and writing genocide in gaza. although genocide is a legal term and needs years to be verified on to be a check, not a how did you report on the to, like you said, genocide is a legal time with legal implications by declaring that something is

a genocide. that's not truly a girl, some sort of legal response as well. so it's not full media outlets for john to determine whether or not what we're seeing and gaza is a genocide. we says nancy and, and to time it as a genocide because we are close reporting what's happening at the i c. j for example, the josh court of justice. whether all hearings on going around whether or not this is a genocide. we kind of course discuss what we're seeing on the ground and how that might lead world leaders lead to international speakers including the united nations to consider whether this is the genocide when we're talking about the killing of civilians. are we talking about the destruction of schools and un buildings and we're talking about the simon and pumps of northern goals. and now these are all signed posts toward what could be considered the genocide. and in fact, as early as an event that we had warning from the united nation, saying that this has all the whole month to the meetings of a potential genocide. and we've seen that continue to unfold and deepen since that point. so of course that we're not sure the considerations are on whether or not we should be quoting this genocide as media outlets. there. awesome. as you mentioned,

yeah, very at going ahead and said that, but again, it is a legal time. it does have legal implications. the same way we don't declare assignment on our own as well, and feasible things that you know, we have international studies that handle that. you want to comment on that i can see you then to me. yeah, i mean i tend to agree with not the also with the internationally i think most distinguish historian of genocide on the bought off. who says it has all the marks of things on the way to genocide. and you know, why, why argue about that? but there are 2 terms were actually for that i think are far more important than words like genocide or not genocide or almost genocide. and they're used so often that i almost doubt i will be able to get anyone in this room

to stop using them. but that's actually what came you because i have told many journalists in separate interviews and many friends, would you stop talking about pro palestinian or pro is rarely positions. this is not a football match. thank you and no, i hope that all of you will not succumb to the temptation that everybody who i've said this to so comes to yes, you right, susan. it's not a matter of team sports. it's a matter of human rights, but it's simpler. everybody knows what you're talking about and every time you use that terminology, you're simplifying. what is a complicated concept? and the one thing we could really do to change the discourse would be to come

up with some complicated but genuinely meaningful terms. just company and also when we sent this stuff using it, it's not mutually exclusive. you can be both pro is rarely and pro palestinian and understand that the solution lies right there. yeah, and i'm just, i am that the solution for this bloody conflict would come only from wanting to promote both societies and understanding. they need to find a joint solution to because there's no other way i. i agree with everything i've heard so far. i just want to add a line of e. yes. let's not be reductionist. let's not be converting grief into a competitive sport. i think that's very important. but be to criticize from us is not to criticize the palestinian people or to not recognize their rights or their suffering. and to,

to criticize nathan. yeah. or the way is read has chosen to respond to the very agree just type of attacks of october. 7th is not to deny the historicity of how is read was created. so let us not conflate who is right with this war response or the is rarely people and let us talk and see the palestinian people with how much that is such production language. okay, then i would go to one of the effects of that happen according to a study, just to get some facts into our discussion in january, the interest that published in the analysis of new york times washington post los angeles times coverage of the warfare. october 7th, through 24th of november. the intercept analysis showed that the major newspapers reserve the terms like slots for massacre and horrific,

almost exclusively for israeli civilians because by palestinians.