comments thing that i heard is most of you have one concern. how put a rice that coverage on the conflict is especially after the 7th of october, the tire attacks on the 7th of october, which is the deadliest day for jews after the whole coast. and also the on, so we war in gaza, which experts say the quote is and it sits among the most deadly as an most destructive word in recent history. all of this is leading to that more voices are accusing. i'm calling this really, really 3 operation in gaza. a general side, a charge is really official in turn, say it's both on full. it's falls on start, submit, take, and falls. i'm all this. we, as journalists are in the middle of it, try every day to report, to be accurate and trying every day to not be biased. why?

because there are different accusations towards the journalist, though it's international media organization telling them you're pros railey other say, you know, you pro palestinian and this is every day. and this is also a discussion of them all if you have any who's when, when, which on which side. and that's why today i would like to know from my panelist, what are the right words to describe what is happening and how can we and if we want a few here coming from over the words, do his, his or her or their job and be responsible to now listed and ethically right, do we present the pain and what is happening on the ground? this is what we'll be discussing today. let's look at look at the video. it is one thing for us to have a story to tell. another thing is how it is being told on the shoulder. but how can

you talk about a conflict now that apparently divides the world into 2 camps. october 7, terror attacked by hamas on israel and the subsequent horn guns. as polarize the world, journalists covering the israel, how much more are confronted with a completely new dimension of findings, misinformation, and propaganda? to what extent are we able to portray the suffering on both sides? and how do we ensure that different voices are heard? how can we discuss the report on israel and the palestinian territories without bias? the struggle for object to compassion and the right words on the middle east conflict the how do i should that different voices are heard? that's what we're doing today. we're going to listen to different voices and very happy to work on my panelist, to answer these questions and to understand more from their perspective how they

are reporting it up. so with a big warm applause, i would like to welcome international correspondent for cnn. she has covered the aftermath of the 7th of october. well, come now the sheet from london, please join us. i'm happy to well tom, on an engine broadcast doing that it's, i'm calling the editor of much a story about the media digital platform barcode. that's welcome. i am also very happy to walk home at least i know it is uh to talk to bell is she worked for? is there any meet the alternates on publications like channels? 10 on top of its shania who's on his welcome philosopher and director of the i'm signed for them and puts them she has previously towards philosophy at the university until of each in diversity. susan nyman, welcome. and we are, we, we want to hear different voices, and that's why we're happy to be joined by

a postilion journalist joining us from cairo. we're supposed to see him. now. he's a journalist and you can hear us and he's a journalist and was on the recently based in gaza strip and wanting to the appropriate 7th where he managed feedback. wait, we'll listen today through his experience. he works with different international media outlets. he works also for a doctor visit and also for washington post. but he told me today he's representing him, says, why problem hasn't been to shop so welcome everybody. and the good news is you can prepare your questions because you have to possibility later to answer to aust. i'm good. so i to answer also your question. so, and if not, i will approach you. so everyone be awake till the end of the session. i would just come to everyone if you would just. so in the video we, we had thought you very cool what the quote was happens on the 7th of october,

the toyota, talk another, etc. and, and what do you call, what's happened on the 7th of, of tools? well, it's not for us to posit judgment. what actually have address, how well to use it, how israel's use it as well as cost considers has to have been a terrorist attack has do many of the members of the international community. and that is exactly how we would report that this is an organization from us that is considered by many minutes after community to be a terrorist organization. but of course, we can't take out the context from that either from many in the palestinian community that in gauze or when the tide westbank, how much is considered to be a resistance movement as well. and we have to look at what happened before october 7th, because the idea that this sort of came out of new at isn't really the case of many who have been following what's been happening in gauze and the fight west spring. there have been bubbling tensions for some time now before the type of surfaces. so there was this on to the patient that that could be some source of violence taking

place. perhaps an uprising, the many discussions around whether we'd see a vine and uprising or an empty father at any occupied westbank for example. so it's really important to consider the context on we're talking about how different perspectives also have taken into account in this complex of course, that doesn't in any way justify what we saw it on the type of 7, it was a horrific attack. and it is considered by these really government and by many other allies as a terrorist attack. and we have to address that. but at the beginning for the beginning you, you decide it as an editorial line to say it's an attack and to give the context. but not cold, precisely tetra tech. i mean, or did it change within any voice within the this that's within evolving languages that we've used within cnn. but of course it really just depends on the context in which we're talking about. it's never for us to say, this is a terrorist attack. we've also said, you know, these really government considers has to be a terrorist attack. okay. and then when i look who's dr. value, we use a very few to turn to attack white,

as well as the technical simple explanation as the door to that kick reaches out. so it looks into 2 major resources of other distinguished journalistic and diverse . this is the d p. i the determine press agency and a p m. when we look for us guidelines on how to deal with some issues and, and here we've so very different approaches taken by these 2. but i think it was a, i wasn't part of that decision at the early days, but i think it's the decision was to, to make that stand for what it is. i also think it's important to bring into this context effective door to the is a german institution. and we, whenever we, we, we, you know, we never working in a vacuum. it has as journalists, we always want to see ourselves independent and freethinkers. and we shouldn't, we must be, but at the same times as a very, to context of culture that we're operating. and it doesn't matter if it's in london or in delhi or in berlin, broadcasting to the world and the decision to,

to name it as such. i think was also included in that in the sense that there was the, the german presidency who was also a good and vice a good, a good way to, to follow him. and eventually you gotta make a decision and doesn't have to toil decisions that have to be made me. we've been heard some call it attack other school, the tire attack, and some arabic speaking media that talk is called the events of to so that means of october and how much is the classified but the, you and the us other tour organization is called the resistant has him so what happens is i am sitting in the region in the middle east region. i go to a certain arb speaking media, they quoted for existence, they call it the events. and then i just scroll down or i change the channel and then it's called the title attack. how do you thing is that affecting on the perception and the judgment of the people in the region looking at what happened in

the sense for october? i think this is a very important answer, the question i actually, but it's, it's up to the, to the media outlet. it's not about joe notice who would classify or categorize, and this action or that no matter what i mean like with are about over 7 or something else. but here we know, and everybody knows that when they watch the know a how, how this outlet and addressing things. but i mean, as journalists individuals, it's not our rule to categorize and i'm an action. we can tell the facts and the people in the audience who would decide this is right or wrong. this is the things that we should describe it this way or not. so we are quoting, people say, as you said in your intro dixon,

you call it to the right tech. and when you said the most destructive war in the recent history, you booked it and in coats. yeah. but the thing is, what's the reaction of the people on the ground when they talk to you when you listen to them? but do they tell you because there is a discussion about how different media outlets are covering what's happened? well, the people are the different. i mean, those people who believe the in the action, you know, in favor of what happened and on october 7, they will defend it and they listen and watch or read the media outlets that they are in favor of that which is very obvious. and for those who are atkins, they want to criticize the other outlets that they are in favor off and they go for different media outlets. it's uh it's, it's so obvious when i talk to people in garza or outside. but the thing is, we're glad from garza, they, they go to the outlet that they meet there,

there and uh, opinions more than anything they, they watch what others say in, in, in, in that, in a way to criticize more then you know, less i think would be and also also been hearing i'm after they've told the 7th is when i personally talk to some palestinians as them. they criticize the media for not talking enough about what was happening to the palestinian before what they say . the 7th book told this, would you underline that, that the media now is putting it as it happened to 70 fold them not before the context? yeah, i would agree with that. the international media has found it far too easy to ignore the occupation and to ignore what was happening, both in garza and on the west bank. and in that sense, i suppose. but in that sense only, i can understand the temptation of some people to call it an

active resistance. however, i'm experiencing a lot of cognitive dissonance at the moment because we just saw a 10 minute performance, a very powerful performance of what it is like, particularly for women to live in an islamist society and the those who are referring to a moss. i mean, one has even, you know, things that look as if they could be jokes, queers for her mazda, etc, etc. those who are considering her moss, to be in some sense of liberatory organization. our, i few are dividing the world into tribal list categories that we really, that, that do don't help us. in the least, it is not the one that need not raise the

israeli government, the bombing of gaza, or the occupation for the last 53 years in order to coal. what happened on october 7th, a massacre? it was a massacre. it was a war crime. any time you know, murder to, sorry, 1200 women and children and men in gruesome and bloody ways. it's a massacre. i don't see why. we can't both acknowledge that and say that these rarely governments response, which must have of course, entirely calculated is equally a war crime. those are not incompatible things to say we are you mention, you mentioned what time, which is this amiga term. it's so when do you think joiners should

use legal terms? what till now there's no court that decided that it is. it's a work i would i would like to ask for back, but i get back to you. it comes from a country that has always recognized the right of the palestinian people to their own state. what's called a 2 state solution. and yet india, i'm the indian media guided to rise. what happened on the 7th of october? as a tentative tech, i agree with that number in case you. i agree with what susan just said. i think the polarization is unnecessary. i'm self inflicted by the media coming from a police off a kind of either. busy or illogical bias on either side of the trenches that is not necessary. let me just say i did have the opportunity to report from is rarely the

immediate aftermath of the attacks of october 7th. it's unfortunate i couldn't go to the cause of that, that time. nobody could enter a god says to now i don't see the keyboards and the sort of remains off of you know, what it has been done too little children and women. often times civilians would advocated for peace with the palestinian people. this is very important to remember, and at that time coming from a country that is also in an isolated way, being of the receiving end of federalism with the word barely noticing. i think the indian response and the response of the ended media was one way. but just to add one sentence, i know i'm taking up more time as the concept went along. as we saw him, nathaniel who responded as we saw people out in the streets in his right against this. and you know, as we saw what was happening to women and children in gaza, the moral compass shifted. the moral compass does show, why would you call what's happening now in gaza? a massacre of civilians. faith

based on what is right, had the right to retaliate to come a document that you should did not include the right to punish those. what are in this, against the whole months sunny we have one perception of what's happening, how or this really media covering when we talk know what's happening and gaza it's, it's simply put they don't cover it because i don't unfortunately many of my dear colleagues in his real life find to be between the role and thinking what's happening does a to these really public. but we need to remember one thing when we talk about is religion, where they are, we are now it's months after this started and it really is a still stuck in october. they are very much fair. october 7th is still very much alive. the leading is really news brought the customer yesterday, had

a 20 minutes magazine story about one of another, many of the examples of what happened, a busy one of the small keep it seems next to guys of it is really is a still free living. that trauma again and again and again, not to mention many are still displaced from their homes, is still what's happening and, and what's important or so on. there's still also controversy brewing within these really society. but these really media find itself still drawn to that partially because personal stories are easier to tell in or easier, you know, to grasp people's attention with partially because when he comes to ideology, ideology, political issues that are on the table, the to discourse in israel is become so polarized that it's really hard to do with it without being marked as a traitor or a left is but is where it is a student living with cobra. 7th, and in that essence, mean, when we keep that in mind, it also helps us understand why it's so hard. so maybe you the things that would

look rationally more probable to happen when it comes to political, to any other processes when it comes to constructive building. of the future of what's happening in gaza and for israelis. this is why is really not really there yet. they're not right for that discussion because they're still in the motional phase of dealing with that. but i have, they don't have monopoly of a pain and trauma and struggle with housing terrible things and gaza. but i'm telling you where is where these are for themselves. now the population and the people. but why do you think the media is not covering what's happening and god, also, that has an effect on what's going on? well, 1st of all, i don't think in the recent years is where those have been to, to not to tuned up to posting invoices on to what's happening in the past and inside period. and i think after october 7th, especially this became a bigger challenge to be able to tune into other people's suffering or narrative when you are so still very much hurting and consumed by your own. but,

but then it's also at the same time, does a technical limitations of, of access there that can only be done through these really ideas spokesperson unit . but there's the un giving a lot of free points would we see that you on reports also being reduced rate of media. and so you and report, you know that the human rights organizations, you and w s. b, again, is really, is a very much a feeling. the world is against them. they feel that this moment october 7th was, was such a turning point. it's such a moment of deep crisis because i think so many is rarely even those who pursue peace. they've always felt that discussion was around 1967. that is, the, the discussion was on whether is really borders as you know, with the settlements that the occupations or are these legitimate or not can to find a solution to make it happen. and fully interpret 7, those are reckoning by many is really is or, or so it seems that the discussions about 1948,

it's about the very existence of the state of israel should or shouldn't be, you know, phrase. but as of course, it's not a question, but they feel the world is, is posing that question of the very legitimacy of the state of israel. and this brings everybody to unite together. because if feel the world is against them, and he's very, there's a still very much in this place of us against the world. and in many ways, all the international pressure actually feeds into that. because it justifies that stand of nobody sees us and understands us. when you, when you, you mentioned that to that summer it's us to let the 7th of october. if we talk to a simians husband and then they would say why no one is mentioning what's happened before that you were an in gaza. you had to evacuate when you were in, in, in guys how was the response? how was, how were to people talking about what happened and, and also, where are you able to work freely in guys and report on what's going on?

uh, yeah, it wasn't garza, i was a told me, it was like, uh, every morning when it happened. i spend like about almost a month and goes, i tell god roughly, it was open and i fled with my family. it was horrible. i good misplaced 5 times myself and my house at the time in the day one the, the windows were smashed as well. it was frightening and when those were a lazy, a response to started. um, yes, i mean i can say, i know goes, well i'm on experience on a list i'm, i'm, i'm working in the field in more than 20 years. so i, i was a, i can't say i am in a free country and it's a free speech, but i was free to, to, to cover what, what's happening. i mean from the palestinian side that we, we, we, we cover things even when i left, you know, i still approached people and we took

a free lease. some people are open and speak freely. some people are very cautious and, and very uh, you know, careful when they speak. and i'm not because only because of from us but also because of these rate action. so people are divided and as well like and in goals are there was blood organization, people in the beginning, they didn't understand what's happening. they. so that was, i mean, as these way these are hating, palistine is still, but the stadiums are, are, are believe the, and they hate the is where it is. and they, many people where, where, where and that celebrating what have been. and that was very all these individuals, but it's too many people were shocked and they didn't expect. and now it's very obvious if you see and look at the landscape of reaction from dallas, there is a huge criticism, atkins, thomas. but i mean, in the same time,

they are not justifying what these lady army is doing in dallas. but i mean, in social media, people's very brave political on. and i'm preached to insulting some sometimes figures, but in the same time they are still some people in favor of what time as of the link. and they asked them to keep fighting against the troops and gaza. one of the discussions, it's also happening and happening the last month. it's the debate about the genocide and not the gen and we see some uh, some media outlets deciding and writing genocide in gaza. and although genocide is a legal term and needs yours to be verified on to be a check, not a how did you report on that? like you said, genocide is a legal time with legal implications by declaring that something has a genocide, that's not truly a girl, some sort of legal response as well. so it's not full media outlets for john to determine whether or not what we're seeing and gaza is

a genocide. we size nancy and then to time it as a genocide because we are closer forcing what's happening at the i c. j. for example, the josh court of justice where they're all hearings on going around whether or not this is a genocide. we kind of course discuss what we're seeing on the ground and how that might lead. lead is lead to international speakers including the united nations to consider whether this is the genocide when we're talking about the killing of civilians. i'm talking about the destruction of schools and un buildings, and we're talking about the simon and pots of northern golf. and now these are all signed posts to what, what could be considered the genocide and in fact, as early as an event that we had warning from the united nation, saying that this has all the whole month to the makings of a potential genocide. and we've seen that continue to unfold and deepen since that point. so of course that we're not sure the considerations are on whether or not we should be quoting this genocide as media outlets there. awesome. as you mentioned that yeah, very going ahead and said that, but again, it is a legal time, it does have legal implications the same way. we don't declare farming on our own

as well. these are all things that, you know, we have international bodies that handle that you want to comment on that i can see you then. yeah. i mean, i tend to agree with not uh, also with the internationally. i think most distinguish historian of genocide on the bottom of who says it has all the marks of things on the way to genocide and you know, why a, why argue about that? but there are 2 terms were actually for that i think are far more important than words like genocide or not genocide or almost genocide. and they're used so often that i almost doubt i will be able to get anyone in this room to stop using them. but that's actually what came here, because i have told many journalists in separate interviews and many friends. would

you stop talking about pro palestinian or pro is rarely positions. this is not a football match. thank you and no, i hope that all of you will not succumb to the temptation that everybody who i've said this to so comes to yes, you right, susan. it's not a matter of team sports. it's a matter of human rights, but it's simpler. everybody knows what you're talking about and every time you use that terminology, you are simplifying. what is a complicated concept. and the one thing we could really do to change the discourse would be to come up with some more complicated, but genuinely meaningful terms. discovery and also when we

sent this stuff using it, it's not mutually exclusive. you can be both pro is rarely and pro palestinian and understand that the solution lies right there. yeah. and just i am it the solution for this bloody conflict would come only from wanting to promote both societies and understanding when to find a joint solution together because there's no other way i, i agree with everything i've heard so far. i just want to add a line of e. yes. let's not be reductionist. let's not be converting grief into a competitive sport. i think that's very important. a but b to criticize from us is not to criticize the palestinian people or to not recognize their rights or their suffering. and to, to criticize nathan. yeah. or the way is read has chosen to respond to the very

egregious type of attacks of october 7th is not to deny the historicity of how is read was created. so let us not conflate who is read with this war response or the is rarely people and let us talk and see the palestinian people with how much that is such production language. okay, then i would go to one of the effects of that happen according to our study, just to get some text into our discussion in january, the interest that published and analysis of new york times washington post on los angeles times coverage of the warfare. october 7th, through 24th of november. the intercept analysis showed that the major newspapers reserved turns like slots were massacre and horrific, almost exclusively for israeli civilians because by palestinians rather than for palestinian civilians killed in. so 80 i taught.