suddenly, imaginable the most efficient and make it a dream of revolution. thoughts, july 20th w. a wiggly founder julian song is back in australia. he went home, a free man, after striking a plea, deal with the us. sergeant, meaning that he violated the us espionage jack. when he released classified us documents, now those documents expose the us government law is about the war in iraq. well, since the end of so long, she has become a hero, a free speech to some to others. he's a criminal. he was willing to put lives in danger all to satisfy an oversized need for attention. our break off from berlin. this is the day the

. 6 the, this is a huge wind for free speech. he performed as a tremendous public service. no one should spend a day in prison for giving the public news worthy and important information. regardless of what you think of he's activities. mr. sanchez case had dragged on full file to long join join. it's time to recover us on she has been proud to lead me straight and certainly even his being crate is no justice. insert falsely. coming out of wall street journal reporter evan garcia, that she is on trial in russia charged with espionage charges that his employer and

his president, called a force. this espionage charges are ridiculous. the targeting of american citizens by russian government is unacceptable. we condemn the detention of mister goose glitch in the strongest in the strong turn to our viewers watching on tv, as in the united states and to all of you around the world. welcome, we begin the day with a rather unlikely homecoming for which he leaves. founder julia saw as long as you arrived in australia, wednesday, with extradition to the united states, no longer a possible threat. the us one of the songs to stay and trial and charging that he violated the espionage act when he posted classified documents in 2011 on his internet platform. we see leaks. this is a case that has spanned 3 presidencies from obama to trump, to bind extradition and a trial seemed certain until news that

a plea deal had been reached was announced. massage entering a plea of guilty, receiving a sentence of time already served. his conviction lending credibility to the us case against him at the same time, allowing a song to walk away a free man, a free at last and back in the folds of his family, wife, stella and father joan in his native australia for the 1st time in over a decade for juliet sons arriving at cambra, applewood was the final act of an international drama that included 70 is refuge in london's ecuadorian embassy. and 5 more input to as high security prison. a consequence of publishing hundreds of thousands of classified us documents on his wiki leaks whistle blowing website. it made him a hero to free speech campaign is but a villain to the us government, which said he didn't. den get national security australia as prime minister anthony

albany, z low beat for years to free. i found he spoke to him by phone enough that his plane landed. he was very generous in he surprise of the strain governments. if it's the strain, government stands up for a strong and citizen as found. his wife, stella said, her husband needed time to recuperate before speaking to the press, but she signed to support his on his behalf. it took millions of people. it took people working behind the scenes, people protesting on the streets for days and weeks and months and years and we achieved it as found. his

final showdown took place in a quote to him in the us pacific island territory, where he was sentenced to time already spent in prison. his noise expressed relief, but said the plea deal highlights dangerous to press freedom. in order to when he's freedom, julian pleaded guilty to conspiracy to commit espionage for publishing. evidence of us will crimes, human rights abuse, human rights, abusing us wrong doing around the world. this is journalism. this is the criminalization of journalism. no one should spend a day in prison for giving the public news worthy and important information. in this case, information that the united states government had committed war crimes. he performed a tremendous public service. uh, not a crime. juliet sounds will no longer have to look at these shows or whatever comes next professionally. he'll 1st enjoy some wild is a time with his family. enjoyed

nearby thomas read, professor professor of johns hopkins university school of advanced international studies and founding director of the a pair of which institute for cyber security studies. professor reed, it's good to have you on the program this evening. i want to start by talking about the platform 1st instead of the man. we can pdf is the platform created by julian designs. is it a, i mean what you, where he like, sorry, is it a force for good? i think it's really important to look at which makes it a nuanced way, which lexus both has been both a forced for transparency but really has also been abused by that actors. and most notably is of course, the russian intelligence agency, g r u, and bear in mind the evidence that this happened just overwhelming the strong it's

just clear that this happened. we clinics emerged at a time on the internet when the isn't it? early 2, thousands, mid to thousands, was still seen as this unabashedly good thing. but keep in mind, influenced operations dominates within the cold war and now back with a vengeance. so we should expect to take sides of all sorts moving forward and seen this in 2016 to be abused as well by, by doctors, by malicious optis it. oh, are we talking about if we compared a 2006 to 2024. the internet is different of his platform is different, but also the nature of, of exposing the truce. it has also changed 1000 um, the nature of exposing the truth has changed, but i think it's important to appreciate. we live in a time where the activism is, again,

a very widespread thing in terms of there are lots of people of self interest in spreading certain types of new lists. and indeed we, especially in the united states, see funds of journalism that are really hard to distinguish from activism ultimately. and this leads to this really important understanding inside that the more ideologically committed somebody is. and there's no doubt that um, for example, julian or sondra and especially the supporters of wiki legs, were quite, i mean, i do a lot to click committed and save about that project. the more de la, ideologically committed to our users, to take advantage of your platform and really of yourself. and i think we've seen this again and again, not only with which links but also with other anonymous platforms and, and farms who benefits the most from platforms like wiki leaks which, which claim to be about promoting transparency. and i

think it really honest answer to this question is that it really depends on the specific case. there are certainly situations where leak platforms have essentially helped transparency hubs. cartel and put a check on, you know, government overreach, or even companies doing the wrong thing. but in some cases, of course, they will be abused and then what's missing here is it's, it's so is of course an editorial oversight. if you're a business model, is keeping sources anonymous at all cost. sometimes not even knowing who your own sources are. that is very different from journalism, where you really should know where the source is, even if you keep it anonymous and also where you make editorial and really also ethical decisions on what it is. okay, to disclose and what it is not okay to disclose the boss editorial of a side,

an ethical choices have often been missing in the case of clicks on a big well she lives specifically in. does that, does that worry you, professor? if i compare what we solve, for example, with the, with the pentagon papers and the process that was followed before anything was ever printed in terms of ensure rating and filtering. what was actually going to be published? did that process? was there anything like that taking place at wiki leads or are we talking about information that was simply dumped into the public severe to be filtered as it may? yes. and again, here the answer is it depends on the case there were certain leaks, the bar were curated and in fact, prepared with a lot of labor and walk in and. and sometimes even the business forms of decisions were made to keep certain things out of it. appears, but this needs to one of the paradoxes, when we talk about the clinics,

while we see leaks, obviously celebrates transparency. we don't really understand very well how we can leaks as an organization. actually what there's only one person group presenting it truly in a song, but of course the wasn't the only one working for us. so the entire setup that is we could leaks how it made decisions, what to accept, but not to accept. for example, how, in fact certainly releases the as a protest that leaks is one of the most famous ones where one lake was released every day for the final. so 2 days of the 2016 us to let you know how much that decision made. why was it man, another one is a famous c, a alien vault, 7 and the voltage that was also released in a way that was designed to maximize effectively a con, uh the impact on c, a n t us government. what were the decisions that are in this context? we've got some hard questions that we have no answers. we hold. yeah it,

it feels like 2024. we're back to where we were, maybe in 2016 when we're talking about the influence that, that these platforms can have on democracy on the elections. before you run out of time, i want to ask you about the person julie decides in, in the, the, i guess his orbit. what do you make of those supporters and there seem to be many of them who see such as a champion of free speech. i think when we talk about league sites, when we talk about charismatic individuals around leaks, asylum, just one example of that. also, edward snowden, chelsea money, we have to appreciate that we have to embrace anyway the contradiction, we have to be able to make 2 different have 2 different insights at the same time. yes, the on the 100 advanced transparency and we learned

a lot through them. but at the same time, they also made many cases, 16. the clearly wrong decisions to release information about who's shouldn't have to come about certain individuals, victims of the saudi government. and we could, leaks, case is one example, or indeed, just straight up for an intelligence operations that have no link to surveillance. in the case of snowden, both can be true because the forced to go down a force for bad at the same time. yeah, transparency, at any price that that seems to be the enduring question here. professor thomas reading johns hopkins university for us. we appreciate your time. your excellent analysis. thank you. thank you so much. in russia, the trial against us journalists endorsed of it. she has begun behind twins doors. the wall street journal reporter is accused of spying for the us. he could face up

to 20 years in prison. if he's found guilty, he and his employer have denied the charge often more than a year under arrest. russia is now putting evan, gosh, because it's on trial. the 32 year old john list was detained in march 2023, while reporting in the city of your cutting book, according to his employer. the wall street journal, the russian prosecutors alleged gosh, because which was collecting secret information from a tank factory for the c. i a gosh, cubits denies the charges. so to his family employer, the white house you say he was wrongfully detained. this espionage charges are ridiculous. the targeting of american citizens by russian government is unacceptable. we condemn the detention of mister goose glitch in the strongest in the strongest terms. gosh, good, which is the son of soviet emigres and grew up in new jersey. he moved to russia in

2017 to work. there was a correspondent, the wall street journal. hi to him in 2022 dash could, which is the 1st american john this to be jailed and russian espionage charges since the soviet era. despite strange relations us and russian officials have indicated that talks on going about releasing gosh, because it's in a prison, this will go. but the us and russia have not yet reached an agreement. in an interview, in february of this year, vladimir putin indicated he wants to swap, gash, give it to the russian hit my sentence to life imprisonment in germany for muttering a chechen distant and berlin in 20. 19. it's a specific will definitely be for somebody to go to some ex, but say the trial could help bring the negotiations forward. it's a very unfortunate situation to all around, but this may be a glimmer of hope in his eventual coming home. because this trial will establish

the verdicts and russian injustice needs to see a verdict in a case before i believe that they're willing to do some negotiation for whatever might be the outcome. but by making the trial secret while she was hiding his case away from the public while for gosh, which the uncertainty continues a little while to bring in. now, paul beckoned. he's in the system as there is a wall street journal. he joys me from washington dc. mr. beckett, it's good to have you. um with this, evan has been held by russian since march of last year. how much contact are, are you able to have with him if at all, i mean, are you able to tell us how he's doing, how he's holding up? thank you for the 1st 50 months until just this week. he was in a security services prison in moscow and we had lawyers who were able to see him once a week and we,

he was able to communicate with us and with his family by lesser. so we know that he has held up incredibly well. we always knew he was a great reporter. we've been astonished by what a strong and admirable man he is with his move to you, catherine burg, where the the hearing was today. we don't know what the protocols will be for being able to keep tabs on him. we're hopeful that we'll be able to maintain that, but he's just enter this period of uncertainty as the hearing continues, the, the images that went out this week with this photo, of course, give it standing in a glass box inside device in court. what is your paper able to do to help a colleague that you say is being held on baseless charges? so we're trying to kind of make sure that we can make life better for them in any

way that we can be from correspondence communication to getting even provisions that might like make life a bit better. where he is. the thing is aggravating for us is it's not really a trial. uh, it is a hearing at which the false accusations that have been made against and will be endorsed by a judge and then he'll be convicted. so, you know where this leads is to a sentence of up to 20 years in russian prison or a work council, or wherever i'm, how confident are you that the us government is doing everything in its power to ensure evans relates to the governments and responsive to our concerns of last 15 months and as you mentioned earlier that have been a couple of attempts at a negotiation that would bring have in home. and we understand that those are ongoing. so we know there's activity. we just didn't notice there's progress. and this is a vital time for that. you,

once you get to september and the us presidential campaigns and its final stages, it just becomes more on certain more volatile. so this is the window where the u. s . government has to act. and we would really like to see them do that. and the next few weeks we had an analyst seems reported here just before you and i begin speaking. and he said that probably what one has to happen is this trial has to run its course. there has to be a verdict, they'll be found guilty, and then the kremlin will feel more comfortable about talking about a possible prisoner exchange. is that some your read on the situation as well? that's an interesting one because about a year ago the russian said that they wouldn't entertain any negotiations around this will offer any other way to bring them home until after a trial that said, we know that there has been conversations periodically through this whole time. so,

you know, we don't, we don't believe it takes a verdict to get him back. but the russians did say that at some point it was notes . what was that present putting has never actually said that himself. so whatever the russians are feeling about the need for a verdict or, you know, we just need those negotiations to happen if they don't happen. then evans stays on this pre ordained passed to russian prison. and there been reports that put evans named it together with paul wheeler to as an american who is also being held in raj. he's been there for several years now that they would possibly be presented together in this prisoner exchange. does that give us any indication on how the kremlin values in american life at this point in time slow?

we've seen pole wheel and be part of negotiations, but not come home. a couple of times of it's trevor read is a former marine us marine who is in russia, and then of course it's brittany grandmother basketball player who came home in swats. so poll wheel and so they've been part of the picture now for 2 other people who have left and we would be very helpful that any deal to involved. evan also involve paul and also involved other americans here of course, evans not the 1st. it was the 1st since a cold war journalist to be detained, but since then also, camacho ready for you has been there for a year now. and yeah, we would like to see all of us citizens detained in russia released. yep. we, i knew in my work, i've met many americans who have frontier in berlin, who have gone onto work in moscow and then moved on to other cities. and that's the

usual run of things. and with evans, of course we, we see that it's not always that way. dw news, for example, the organization where i work is it's been banned from reporting from russia. i mean, russia is and can be a dangerous place for journal is what would you say the journalist from foreign media outlets who are still you are still working in rush. i think the risks of reporting from russia have risen exponentially in the last couple of years and you know, that's really why haven't was taken as whitehouse who's buying bars. so things have changed. i think it's been, it's been a steady deterioration, but that deterioration is accelerated a lot. so it's become of a dangerous place to, to practice journalism because they've effectively made journalism as you and i understand it into

a crime. so that's obviously decision that each each organization makes for itself, but you did see in the wake of evidence detainment that many american reporters and many americans use that as it's essentially withdrew, which you also feel is just exactly what the kremlin probably wanted. so yeah, lots of correspondents who are in moscow and no covering russia from berlin from to buy from warsaw from london. and they do so very gamely. but they would be the 1st to say that it's far from my deal and you need to be on the ground all back. it is . it entered the wall street journal and mr. beckett, we appreciate you taking the time to talk with us today. we certainly wish evan all the best. thank you. of the appreciate your interest. a hypersonic missile watch by north korea has exploded mid flight. the launch was the retaliation to the us, deploying a nuclear power aircraft carrier to the region to take part in the military drills with south korea and japan official said the missile blew up of the north korean

coast, close to the city of one sort of this comes as the us begins, its military exercises with its east agent out dw, east asia correspondent, james j to reports on what is behind these exercises this month. the coast guards of south korea, japan and the united states in lock step. during drills in east asian waters, the 3 countries have recently held, mold joints exercises during close to in the face of been increasingly a set of china and unpredictable north korea. now the military times the set 15th and further this week, the nuclear power to us aircraft carriers, theodore roosevelt. dalton, south korea, heads of the freedom edge exercises. the 1st of multi domain drills between the 3 nation dot means exercises across different military units. like a c uh cyber space. uh the intent is uh to improve the

interoperability between our navies. and the intent is to ensure that we are ready to respond to any crisis or contingency should preparing for any crisis has been made more context by the prussia and new career last week, inks and new strategic partnership with that, including a mutual defense, wanting concerns must go could supply some young with intelligence 1st weapons program. if to lead is came gentleman and it's not him. if he's in united in a position to us, i did say she liked sweet reading stories. we see what is happening in asia local blog is forming. so it was, it was that now you holy is already moving to asia as if to a permanent place of residents. this of course creates a threat to own countries in the region including russia. definitely, we are obliged to respond to this and we'll see some folks did us and did some of

the serious blame each other for stoking confrontation of the day. continues online, we will see you here tomorrow, the

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the this is dw news live from berlin, breaking news out of south america. a qu reportedly underway in bolivia, soldiers, every fortunately strong the seat of government in the capital of ha, found the president is calling for bolivians to defend democracy, ordering soldiers to return to their barracks. also coming up, julia saw landing in australia a free man. after pleading guilty to violate a us espionage law in a deal, the end of a 14 year long legal fab and 10 years president william brutal backtracking on tech site plans that triggered the country's largest protest injection.