really maintain its grip on both in the region and domestically. as long as the country is left by religious hardliners, things are unlikely to change in the early hours of february 24th just over 2 years ago. are you kidding me? and joe, listen, care, happy, i'm mistaken, will sound the russian missile targeting. he says he really believe that he to be lying in a fit with a russian bullet at his head. but it didn't happen instead, any upon the money. and co woke up went out and began reporting in real time how ukrainians acted for a full on the daily hourly basis. his new book cold, i will show you how it was found the 1st 3 months of moscow's invasion. and his remarkable new love affair with his own country. clear upon the money and co welcome to come fix home. hello. thank you for having me. your new book shots

the 1st month. so most goes without invasion on ukraine and towards you. 22. a story you said about so many people doing incredible things and discovering a lot of incredible things about themselves. like got you know, war a, such as a function of making people reveal for they truly are to reveal the interest selves . so many regular people just like you, me just like anyone you know, appear to be capable of incredible things like making a moral choice of standing or what was rights against all the odds with a little to no chance to win what the entire world the be great and alive. yet regular people check the drivers, radio host and the military people made decisions to stand up

making moral choice and fights. as many people are not there truly believing in the grain. so my book is about very rigor. what people do it for roy, things when the darkest on time games you've often said the hope all was once another chance, but then how close have you come to losing hope over these last 2 years? i'm gonna say that's the darkest. it's in this regard was the 1st day of the invasion for us, our something vacation because what was happening was k us was, may have was extremely dog environment in terms of, you know, the entire world given us. i mean, the drain ends in inc and gave 40 to 72 hours. and the 1st hours were telling us very little about, you know, the future and about the chances of this country to survive and to go on living and

fight in and survive. and but same time with 1st victories of your clients, such as the southern victory of the grand forces, said because normally our field, which is the air field just outside key if we was attacked by russians with 1st. fortunately, the failures spectacular failures and such a sudden and unexpected move taylor's, there appeared to be a dream of hope. and a very sudden understanding that's what can make it. we can do it. russia is failing. so the beer is over the darkest hours. very, very quickly shipped to home and to, you know, the motivation to move forward. that's your 1st thought was we were going to die. you said we were under no illusions as to what would happen. we would end up in a pit with a bullet in our head. how. how long did that sort stay with you? i think it's 24 hours. let's go this way from the evening before the invasion from

the night before. the invasion through this night's of that dissipation ends to the 1st symbolic victory will be kind of force us and the cost on the air feel that we haven't only discussed the moment. um you know, initially we really had no illusions about our chances. but some still as hold, always fun to try to find a wait, we were thinking about really a war a very long ago with the war that is unwinnable from russia and the answer. so we, we knew that that's going to be a target that it will work with lots of casualties, lots of heavy the consequences of this country by the same time in dm's ukraine. but, but for ukraine, but while we're compass, but when they 1st picture, so we kind of soldiers defeating russian, russian airborne jobs and the custom way our fields, which was supposed to be a quick jump on ok if they appear to be home. and after the 7 that's we

can again store you against all your expectations. if you and your colleagues decided you were going to report this war in real time, not just the fighting, but what do you want, other people so and felt. and in 5 days you went from 10000 follows on x to over a 1000000. how do you explain that? was it that you are holding up a, a mirror for people and say look into it, there's some good news. the, the soldiers are resilience invasion of k of has been stopped in its tracks. was it back on the i think it's more about the unique nature of the situation. but we're, and i mean the full scale. what so style more an invasion in the middle of all a day and time in general, just a dollar twenty's. so that was in general of the whole situation for the roger. great. and the in general because for the new grain was so distorted, really a rare black and whites so full of emotions. so full of things that touch upon the

most basic and the best things about human nature. that it was a need. it was so many people around the world because most people are good people, no matter whether you live in the world, how far that's how, what people's emotions during that period. and it was very much about emotions because, um, like i said, there was such a black and white situation and such a terrible feeling all the doomsday coming up on the entire nation that was innocent, that never deserved this. and we were born of those 2 crania so many, many also many, 4 of us who supported us, who felt this way. they were outrages. they were in a screaming from the side of the stalls and social media. so naturally, that means a lot of attention because of the unique situation that we were in use. so people on the streets who saw people in an air raid shelters, you must have had some extraordinary conversations. was that one in particular that stuck in your mind. uh, i have

a moment that i really remember and tire coats almost every single day about things like moms. so in favorite tails to little kids in the underground shelters. as if there is no more just you know, laying there. you know, your moms leave, the kids don't sleep really late in the nights out on the floor, on the comforting floor on somebody's stations that use that. what used to be like of air bump sheller. so tell us the table from old u a. b, and you know, the floor and making there. so somebody will come for, for the children. so it's very tales in the middle for, for kids that do not deserve this. you said the biggest difference between pre war ukraine now is a sense of unity in the country and sense of, of becoming a nation, a nation that wants to be dependent, that appreciates being independent. how does that manifest itself?

where, where do you see that it's, it's about so many little things that happen in this country. it's about so many things that you know, appear in the minds of people such as far as those, despite the war, despite the, you know, the terrible situation that we're in. we have and at spectacular outbreak of the cranium. cultural like truly unique, ukrainian culture in the more weight of songs. music. even the stand up comedy stand up, comedy is just having the renaissance, given your grain with young's media is um having tours and uh uh, you know, having a performance as an air bomb shelters. and i gain in gaining a lot of audience and, you know, go with the money for the military to. it's about the increasingly lawrence use of ukrainian language versus may russian speaker switch to training language. just because of the principal, just because the doctor wants to have it, it's been in contact with russia a culturally and was sickly to it's about so many things that really

make creates the united to creating a nation as it will be both from the grants east and brain grants west finally have a really large story and into comma and you didn't expect any of this. you didn't expect the government to be there was no to the outbreak of this without war. i must say that i this exactly what i expected because 0 in the time a brief and the doctor's time, especially when it comes to such a resilience. and it's a very vibe of nation that you great it is. uh, people tend to find cold. do you know, gets united states across the street on something on the idea of surviving? so it's a very nature whole thing. and in many ways it's, it's getting us since the beginning of the conflict and bush and from 6 as dictate . so it'd be coming from 2013. it's super different from what you're saying this. and i must say that i like ukraine of today, much more let's,

let's talk about the west. the extravagant promises to stay with you all the way to victory. and then the, the delays before during the weapons that web given over given late the invitations that keep being sent to join the nato. but they don't have any data on them. have you lost face with the west along the way? i don't think so. i don't think i have lost faith. i'm proposing 2 legs. have cost, huge numbers of ukrainian lives. have me the delays and getting the weapons for you . i mean, as you know, that's it just so that they, that entire story of the praying for swayed and begging the west into, you know, change of the attitude change in their position towards which russia is changing the inside political backgrounds, entire mindsets. and i'm begging it every single step with every single website that gets a complicated story. it's a hard story, it's a story. so do people feel let down by that? it's not the full it's bread situational. you know, you're going to say,

it's certainly emotional. it's a very vibrant culture with very little bodily public opinion. so once that comes, you could be say, and things like the way the west has to be trained off, but the same time was something positive happens. the same person will tell you that no, the west has still with us in a we finally made and we persuade on this, but no hands on hearts. honestly speaking, you know, given all the, you know, as we look at the general situation, i've never seen that happen or even a, all the last 2 and a half years. it's impossible not to say that the west has really changed. it's not changing as fast and as, as does that make last, we want that as it's necessary for the sounds, victor, to all the brain and the free world in this we're but what's the change of west has done and much one that we could realistically expect knowing what the west used to be 2 years ago, would you trust the wife any more or any less? if donald trump becomes president again,

i think we still have hold. even if donald trump, because the president again was still helpful. and one of the things that we learned from this war is that there's always a way if you are not given up, if you are ready to go on struggling to fight and work. and there's always a way to go because we have overcome so many nevers about so many things about um the in this what you know, it's advice on that so many times you were written off. people didn't trust you. people didn't have faith in you and i don't think that that ever happens because it's of been demick process of, you know, it's very painful, very steady evolution towards enforcing something with the west persuade. and the end of working with the people it's, it's a work it's, but it's the same time. i know it's something to work with. so that's why we're not losing hope. we always find it and wait to use. as you said, you think the, the wall could go on another couple of years. what do you think would have happened

by the end to end it, mutual exhaustion on both sides running out of i munition, what we are thinking about and what many analysts solve. so notes that's, russians have been fighting this. where is it? there is no tomorrow, i mean big or their sources are large. i bumped on there. so if the legacy is extremely abundant, but same time they were fighting the war. so in such a wasteful weight, that's in all the that they cannot come to save their losses when they open duction and as many on the list know that and the we see the zoo from for me inside your training. and if i'm able to reach you, they only cover like 20 percent updates. they are losses. so, in the next year, in the next 2 years, that may compet situation in which russia will have to rely on its own production only without any bug or less soviet supplies anymore. so

which means russia be in less capable of large scale operations, which means russia having to narrow down their goals on the train, which means i have an opportunity to strike a deal to negotiate. because as good as you are not capable of crushing your brain and doing so, as you think this will end up in the go see a thing table, not on the battlefield. ok, hopefully that's going to be a strong position for you. train them for the, for the world to negotiate and stop as simple. it is just a praise guy. so you're not capable of the doing this any again, week or so. let's stop this before it's too late, because you are getting quicker, but the same time, which i don't deny, that's the problem is operational about this, where they're not thinking about, you know, rational, positive things, the knobs on the goodwill and disregard. so it's, it's, it could be an option that no matter what's the situation of russia,

it appears to be in, they can go on and on and on what the score, because war as such as an idea, the perpetual, we're on the west, but you go to it when you create and extension of ukraine is the like a bad update update every shape and they are all controlled and rule of russia. so do you did sign the agreement with them? would you have any expectation that they'd stick to it? no, absolutely, no. the only possible reason for them to stick to agreement is to enforce it sort of a piece deal of them. they will never observe that these new that is not in force unless they have to unless they are forced to do this. so there is no good will, there's no, there's no trust in any sort of agreement unless they absolutely have to do this unless they are not capable and disabled and denied from their ability to go and fight in this way. this is the only, unfortunately, wait, and you don't see any possibility of a living peacefully permanently beside each other after this,

at least will foreseeable future. yeah, the only possible way to, to do so that is to disabled russia from having large scale offensive operations about a, against the graeme ends, which is, which is even more important. ukraine be in a way to strong in the way too dangerous as a potential. um, which amount of the, of, and other attack. so be way too strong is the only possible way to prevent, in other words, and to go on living without, without more entity going prevents. and they've gotten a little more so the date was still to start. stop will be at the beginning of the periods of extremely hard work from inside the train and from outside your clients here to prevent another work by making your grand astronomy as it, as it possibly can be reached the front of the co you live now in butcher 25 kilometers west of kiff, the area so a massive, brutal occupation by russian forces. in march 2022, which left hundreds dead,

many appeared to be executed in cold blood with the hands tied. how is that what you're now? is it one of the hopeful signs that you spoke about? yes, i must say that i moved uh, double check shortly after the liberation from russia. and i bought my 1st apartments um, shortly before the beginning of the full scale invasion. and uh, when i originally went to a bunch of old in the police, full of in the military as alongside with so many trying to listen to this picture was terrible. you know, it's, it's really hard to describe the picture of ma'am. all is the smell of death and the touch of evil. that was in the end, the year following the withdrawal of russians. and i remember many colleagues saying that's up to her, everything that was seen in there up to all the mass graves of the, all the dead bodies that we saw in the bushes course forever is going to be across

the land. but it never happens really. spring time came. people return to the city months. it got hours when they babies and barks, know the song came in all the life prevailed. so ever since then, which is one of the best places to live in here, many of the places were resurrect. it's a lot of people moved in there to, to live. you know, so anyways, i'm really happy that i moved to bush and i lived here and i enjoyed living here because in many ways what's happened, simple change. the sign of hope is this is every single day i walk through the streets and i see it's ivan, i remind myself of the fact that life always fails in old lights prevails over the darkness. and this is exactly what happens with the small town, comes aid down in the woods, just outside key of life prevailed. no matter what's reporting on this conflict,

you came across that russian. so just one of them you were able to identify from the name patch on his uniform and an online search. who was he and how did it make you feel seeing photos of the place he lived and the family and the imagine what his life might have been like now, do you have the terms to live it? yes, i am deep ended to find one of the russian soldiers to be precise. he was an officer, a young guy, 24 years old, the young officer um, with the military education. and the guy is from uh, ethic body as pain was born, 7000 kilometers away from k of. and i'm in the russian range. i'm really close to him. i'm going over a healthy, young looking guy, big fan of football, of activities. and i really from, i only got to batch name and i able,

i was able to with the help of things and that you have to construct the entire life, his family, his sister, his mom is a teacher. his town is or invested to you. it's still far away from your brain, and to me, this experience, this very event them experience, i'm gonna say, was one of the payments on dollars for the entire of mine. so a life appointment i had to come here because i realize how upsurge, and so that was the essence of the easiest, again, that sort of the of this work. this young guy could have a family, this, the guy because have a good be like a local cultural. this football team is so far away from bush. he could be, i don't know, a local deputy and work on making his life and the life of his peers better so far away from the train. he has, he died from nothing he burns and the thing from nothing. 7000 kilometers away from home for an age you will take more. that is unjust. and one lower, which is even more terrible for me and for, for the, you know, for, for everybody else is that so many good people,

young go guys and girls from your grand pets, a di to stop him and the likes of him and the yogic more for the nicole manning today or since his wishes. and this is one of the most tragic and terrible things about 4 to 2 years on how normal does it feel to still be in the middle of this war. how, how much of pre war life has survived over the last 2 years when it comes to most of the grandparents already like gifts of the many of the cities, even on this uh, lives is as close to being low as it is as it can possibly be because um, there is a thing about human nature and the one that people can people tend to be striving to normalcy as much as they can. so business work in restaurants, work in shopping malls and spied power outage just by the way people use

technologist to stay online to stay uh weren't getting paid taxes, but spent the economy to, you know, go places, enjoy life and go to the seats side by the budget and say among people that they don't put things off. um you have to be thinking about getting married when they go to do it rather than weight because of level. um yeah, they've changed people's attitudes in that way. for instance, that's interesting thing that happens to be a human society and what people do not splits in put on and beautiful things besides in the middle of work. if he wants to get married, what is the best time to do this? because who knows what happens tomorrow. so same things about, you know, change them. they are of human lives, you know, doing something beautiful. and this, you know, many people in the menu of my friends, they have kids. despite you know, having a war because this is the attitude, so they're camden and they may be know, tomorrow, so today is today. life is now. so, and this is the,

and i would say that it's, it's, it, it, it might sound weird, but it's one of the beautiful things that have them to be built in war. so people live lives and they defy the darkness they defy the in the life killing force that's, you know, covers this country and stay in the same time. it's a sort of a defiance towards what's russia, what's, what um wants to achieve. issue a go on living as a craniums below enjoying your credit and go to a new kind of language. and you can join the kind of life trying to make this country still a better place. and it's, you know, to find the, find the death and going to live in is one of the, in a ways to combat the some more. it's a credit for the, it sounds almost as if in the middle level of this complex you've fallen in love with your country again. and again, that's yes i must say that's, you know, again, it's a very interesting thing about you in a few months ecology is that the ones you,

i about just lose something you study really appreciate and something and it's, um, it's what it's on the personal level for us that's my love to keep. okay, is i always loved the residence. it's in the city, gave me so much about that in my life, but the same time when you're about to lose, that's your thought to really appreciate. and so i didn't, it gave my days when i'm not off work to and all started in history of the key of to in the walking the streets. and, you know, knowing every single detail about this ancient and beautiful city and whether it's extremely wes. so ization of significance, the same goes to bell g cream or 2, no history, no of the train. and it's, it's once on the site. it's too because people really discover your brain for themselves. people. so i appreciate and many people. so i appreciate what they have and the people in general over the decay, those were people started see and the beauty that they have of having the

independent country, proud country of country. oh, they own that is about them so. so it's really works this way. we love your brain as, as much as never before on so many personal levels. i give you a problem, i are going to be very good to have your own coverage. so thank you very much. here is the the

stepping into this building is an emotional experience. used to be addressed in

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you'll see about the video that goes in the media and legal law. give a lot of the time, but again, i will stop into that and i'll give you a go on. would you be able to order that? i'm jo, media, doctor coverage, the more people than ever on the news world wide in search of it that are nice to be able to use men and they can t method do it only like goes have you already a few megs of appears in the general does all of pearson men is useful or the most mood 3 gets expose? go to lunch, when you find out about all the story info, migraines, reliable news for migrant. wherever they may be, the worst i know, did i right? just do it. and i'm hosting dw new pod cast, thanks. trace amount. bother. today about joining us as we travel around your,

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