is going to be funded here repos every weekend on d w the this week on the 77 percent street debate can now come to the bank of deposition. so many times we had slugs. what type booklets in mosques? how does that compare the police officer to use a munition? again, it's no more a use when you by the police, from using the tools required for the entry. you mean live? i munition, it went live, i mean, nation. it is equivalent to telling the police the police station, let us protest was it's necessary to shoot dex my site in the box. was it proportionate to for that kid and get the right? that's nice. those are the kinds of questions want the police to on the hello and

welcome back to the 77 percent st debates. my name is edith kimani, and this week we have back in 10 years capital of ne ruby. now this city has been the stage of ongoing protests initially started a guess a controversial finance bill. the proposed sweeping increases in taxes. now those protests have to it to something else, demanding better, accountability and 0 corruption from this government. but we're here to ask a protest. the only way for can is to get their voices hud, and what's next for the young people of this movement who better to answer that question than the actual members of the movement. but i want to start with a general question. you know, the purchase has been going on and i'm seeing ongoing because it's still happening for a while now. but how many people have attended at least one of those protests? let me see by show heads. that is all but to people. i'm not surprised that be so we know is the protest. what do you find out who keys later you understand why? but check your, let's start with you because you've become almost like the face of this movement to

your face is in a mural. how does that make you few and why did you attend the protest in the 1st place? it is very sorry for me and humbly because i know myself. so i feel almost like i do not this of this level of um, attention. but again, understand the kind of impact that the specific viral means cop chad. so the viral moment to talking about obviously the kenyans know what it is, but i'll explain it to a global audience. you stood up to a police officer and you said, you're not taking me anywhere. i'm standing up for my rights. why? why you so angry that day? that's was the 2nd be of the protest. and on the 1st the i had been, i raced it. i wasn't even use the time i just said, because i was, i'm bushed by pain clips of she says and they threw me into a vehicle. they harassed me. they beats me and they took me to a central police, and we were detained among the protest as until 8 pm. so it's a,

i didn't understand why the people in the minds and had to be met with such brutality. and in my opinion, we did not besides to experience what we were experiencing. so i was like, if this moment, if i happens to me, i get i have to be able to speak up for myself. and it just so happens that people have that and they feel that moment and to be honest, i was cad, but to my and got in frustration so frustrated my fia at that point. and that's why i stood up again this, this police, me. all right, so shakira is uncle superseding of fear mohammed. you are a journalist to communicate to but very much also involved in these protests. so i did ask the question, what sparked the protest? because i mean canyons have been known to put us for a while, but not like this, not at this scale. what triggered this? i think people just a good time, because for the longest time, can now come to the brink of the police on so many times, but revolution, that's a very strong what it is, a very strong, but it's a lot that i'm using because i know can now it's come to that thing for so many,

many times. i think we can go back all the way to the ninety's when you had the multi party out when we're fighting for multi part to democracy in this country. 2002, when all of us was who to talk and saying your to is that kind of gone way. 2007. unfortunately, what happened followed by the, the, the court issue of government and then print, 1800 government. there's one, uniform, fucked up swapped. and that is for the patients orders come in and hijacked the movements and make it about themselves. so what's the difference, this thing don't i think the people that they got tired of that, but like every time we come to the bank of general change in this country, pollution is coming. i ducked the movement, make it about themselves, and then it back to square one. so now it's like no more. yeah. and another defining characteristic of this movement as we are calling it is that it's was national. you know, it wasn't just concentrated in the of incentives and your, from our law in some blue and you come all the way from the i know you also participated inputs us the, tell me how the environment was, where you from this is just out of affecting us on the national level, but also

a i've got to come to live with a lot of things that i'm not helping you. right. so the days that level and especially no one to us because we have a huge population of youth was not employed under what of disregard that not even given testing, decision making processes. our government is like i looked on need. but at the middle of the night, they're pulling up some moves. mickey moves and at the end of utah is they give us a very, very due to mentor. if it's of finance be the tax issue and then on the stuff. and you know, the people have really exhausted all the possible ways to dialogue was the possible ways to find the tennis to talk. yeah. so the kinds of talk anymore. they just have to use a states to speak. okay. it's, yeah. so then what is the message now? because at the beginning it was very kia, right? rejected the finance bill, and i want to speak some people who participated in the protest. i did that involve binding buildings looting businesses,

because this is also what the young people have been accused of criminality. a spots of the protests have been there from the very 1st day like the 1st day when drugs got shot. i was in love with those and cbd up for one of us decided to go home because it's the end of the day night time was coming, the streets were dirty. no. going to be safe. people left. but then the minutes are coming to downtown. you're being told all the people who are here to lagoons, people is businesses or in fact before kept. so then social vandalized by the go button i lived in the evening, was the protest as we're trying to go home. all of us wanted to go and we were tired. okay. yeah. now i asked how many people had protested for how many of you was this the 1st time being out on the streets, protesting how many of you were doing this for the 1st time. okay. what did you see? what did you feel? let me hear from some people and so on the street that kind of like a festival vibe people in the shooting took talks. people are talking to each other,

people giving out what information codes people are selling. gus must, it was peaceful. mostly the 1st jews do where it came. those no problem. we'll just discuss backups after the thursday after the week of to is a know you can see other people and you could tell who they are. because the post had the placards dressing this come with the handkerchief couple in the side. so you could tell the difference from the partition. let me bring in a child. so we know who you might recognize as a form us books best suited for the police based on your own assessment, an observation, how would you rate the behavior of police to was the protest of in those early days? did they sometimes have the conflict, but police find themselves in because as you had, the young man took to most of these issues as a political problems between the public and politicians. police officers coming in force laws and regulations of atlanta. what kind of constitution is i'd be more vibrant and i think what the 7 of the constitution provides that you can

demonstrate to you can assemble, you can pick it to kind of present petitions to authorities, piece in place. and then that is the best way. so we've had, we had those kind of, uh, those kind of products. but you can hear the 1st day. it said was so beautiful. but you can see as it progressed, wait, wait till you check your racing. it was like i said, i was arrested on this last tuesday or their protest throughout over 200 people in central police. i learned from what i witnessed and what i experienced. there was no sadness from the wide. cool. i did not mean fan is too high, but i mean, who is, who is the fan is to be the same. i've said this situation was that'd be fair compared to the preceding base. but before we continue, i just wanted to clary to here because who did the police respond and serve? do they consider us 1st or the politicians? the police can see does the nation every one of you?

because for example, she's a business woman. if you break into hardship and you still everything and she has a loan and basically with no insurance that we pay these, what happens to her? that's why we say, if the police is the devil, let them preventative. but don't go breaking into people's properties. so from where i sit, i don't want to defend anybody, but what i'm saying is, can we follow the law? okay, let me hear from some people here because i'm seeing the house coming up. i hope you came here to hop on on the screen. if it being on this dose of the default position of the police of discounting since independence has told us how long has been filed and what is what is known can is $15.00, and $1.00 is for tonya heights. nope. do you think that the aisles definitely most of the, for just some of the people who came out during the support is that kids well for middle class families, privilege funding is relo. farming is from good neighborhoods. this is the 1st time protesting of this before the police will tell you do for them. it's things they

see on tv or they need them to people's, but this time on the face that head on us. so kid, us it from the fust the shore tell you this if you go to these low income for these neighborhoods, this informal settlements, the my thought is to keep, does, this is the date if you had it. so you'd be, some kids is that they need to understand the things that they fixed every single day about the sons killed without any due process. yeah, so is a big one is to us of the police of this country. they've never been a force for good. okay. let me speak to a do it because it's just joined us from hockey, africa, which is a right scoop. and you've heard what the former police spokesperson has said. what are your results? your response to goodness is that day, we have to have a very kind of discussion because i'm just from, you know, thinking we already know. well, we tried to trace information that was been given by police and check if, if i disagree and we have good individuals that walk in by bullets, but the police have registered them. i've been with daddy as victims of a, you know, as a, is it as a van of accidents yet?

when you go to the east side, you find guys, wood woods, we've individual's electra individuals that walk into the, in the last part of the and then it didn't get done by the put it. so i just had them as individuals that had a good accidents in georgia. so we need to be honest, i think from where we, i think we, we need to ask, what kind of be some of the accountability mission was that we need to put in place because as, as we speak now, i pod looked have the kids to bite and as we're speaking out low to reconnect, have the police investigating the philip with this accused of of give me 92. okay. let me give me so you know, a chance to, to respond. and by the way, let's just be clear. he is no longer a police officer, is here out of got to seek it, right? but when you hear people speaking like this about police officers, surely you must agree, but there's something wrong fundamental. what, what i can tell you from my experience that nobody has the right to have another, including a policeman. and that is why they have many cases where police officers have been

charged. that being jailed because one thing i want to tell you is we will never fail to help policeman. and they would then, or do you not a life where they would be no policeman, you would find people fighting and killing one another. if i don't meet that some policeman and make mistakes, i would be the if you don't admit and that this demo specials must be peaceful and we must be and you will also be, oh okay, let me, let me, let me, let me bring it because for the interest of time, we have somebody here from the law society of kenya, and they feel like post protests, everybody is a little bit of a lawyer. so we're talking about provisions. what does the law say about peaceful protests and what the police on the right? because we saw images of people holding just the flag, and yet they're being sprayed with what's a kind of the unfortunate thing that we have weakness in this country, is that the keep up with treated by the states and obviously of these because we saw a quote involving the issue,

i know that they electing that the police officers would not to use the we put in the, you know, to use force was, you know, see was what the economy. and it was created data to things, but the general police to ensure that they provide that command. the following the, there was a product has failed and nice in the various cities. and we could witness the police waiting to validation of that order. the 1st time the protest thought of that is on the 18th of june, of the central police station, as low as we just pointed to, at least as close to provide legal supports to some of the people where we noticed that because of the products. when the book is that i have the police mit eh, what do i mean by the police brutality, useful flat garcia to the advocates and to seek legal and provided a good concert to these bad protest this. so you can see the non cooperation by the state agencies to provide it to comply with the low to comply with the fluids come to a according to polls, the, the lights to the legal representation that aids 2 se, console that i just talked to the left eaves,

i'm going to give me so we're not just respond to that. and then i want us to move away from the issue of felicia, when you buy a of the police from using the tools required for the treat, you mean live? i munition, it went live, i mean, nation. yes, i don't want to lie. i want to be very honest. yeah. even live, i mean, nation is totally of, of is a tool of trade for the police. we have had cases of terrorism here. people coming with bombs and fire. and so what i'm saying is that when it comes to t, i guess the quote trying to stop the police from having to using to you guys or using but on what when using his get is misplaced in the sense that it is equivalent to telling the police, the police station, let us protest. there's a difference between peaceful assembly assembly when do become riotous, winterly or more people assembled within the just a minute. he intends to disrupt overbooked to costco, so they become ready for testing. i'm not sure. let me, let me, let,

let me give you, let me give the back. yeah, i mean, i'm trying to have, okay, but i'm only allowing me, i love you. i love it. also to give other people to the purpose of protesting is to disrupt. because otherwise would, it needs to protest, and if we do not cost a disruption of normal day to day activities, then the message doesn't go out. we had slugs. what of buttons and mosques? how does that's a, a, equates to that i or 2. how does that compare the police officer to use a munition goodness, no more a use. and then my last point, just from the way he's speaking the fact that he's started as a police officer and where he is right now, it shows that to be something fundamentally enrolled from the house policeman, actually ins. and how they are put into a force, which is something we also have to deal with as a country. okay. do you guys agree? okay. okay. so we were telling you that you took uh, the 2 of you,

i was just okay. talk to, we talked to me, yes. uh why is that the acting from where uh the message of seeing that too. do you mind a political equitability because we think that the police has seems to be independent . and we also think that to the mind that you've reached the police, the admissions you between the police and they must, this is just, we had a just extreme in terms of question. that's why they have people are saying that on the context of the kind of distortion there is need for the president to live in the mall. and for the people i don't to present believe in what the young people and the other people have with that you should see the, the open. they don't have to have a discussion. be at that that would the thing that didn't good option did what was political ability, you know, dealing with the issue issues of trust, but is it so this is, this is out of the public domain as to the bottom line is we expect the president to just do what the people, what and when we see them do those issues. we go not going to, but you gotta stay back until the present. good to put it up and like all the time

and all the time. so great, so let me get some more responses. the police are governed by knocked the national police on this. ok. and then if there's a provision that guides police officers, when the load will, how they're allowed to use firearms, was it necessary to shoot fixed my site and the mock was it for pushing it to foot? that's good in good life. that's nice. those are the kinds of questions want the police to answer. okay, so i just want us to move away from the issue of police because this is not a debate about police officers. it's about the protest, right? the president has already made some concessions, fired nearly his entire cabinet, has now re appointed. some people are to still be made to them. 6 of whom had been fired. have now been nominated. how do you feel about that? do you feel like the president is listening to the demands of the youth? honestly, i don't think it is because um, if you see that shuffle, it's like he just switched positions. you know, it's like this person was here. come stay here. you go. stay here. just just to

show people it's like east place. i don't use people's mind. like i'm, i've done something. but for me as a business person, let me tell you this port has affected me personally individually because on that tuesday, the 1st shots for pretty good. i was sort of good. i was quick much was looked at. what's the phone shops? why looted in the police. there was no one to show up. we made called realistic police specialties. just death. come according to is just a well, just a few meters always. but the one not the n, as you as, as of you still really see that the police are supposed to protect us. so when you hear that young people are getting ready to go back on the streets again, this following week, and perhaps for many more weeks to come, my question becomes how sustainable is it? i mean, will people be on the streets for a year, 2 years? when does it end, and what are the other options sometimes? yep. well, that'd be what next? what is going to happen instead of why and the people he just said,

because they have been very clear, very clear on what they want, which is accountability. that'd be mind that government, that those parcels, we know wellbeing involving what options condos, for instance. uh, we saw the appointment that they don't meet, they propose the munition list of some of the members of the companies that presented some of them. we knew them to be well received as condos. so the apostles that do not meet the lead us cheap and integrity test the us should a provided and of course did you know it's up to 6. so how long does that going to take? that depends on how fast of the state is to really listen. ok, concerns of the game. okay. uh so what are the real issues? let's come back to that. i'd like to go to the main tagline of what's this james? the movement has been, which is through to him. i school. and it's, it's evidence that when we say rude to my school, we don't specifically refer to roots so much the anti government that he's the backing him up. they've been given a chance. time and time again,

cause this up with you to chance of had about since i was i need to golf. so i think it's just time we it's like it because tracking everything and starts afresh for my new foundation. let me hear from one more person and then we get some solutions, right? there's a social construct that has been fixed and can use of understood that yes, it is the government and is the government. the government gets the legitimacy from the consent of the government. when you saw people in studying parliament about today's the 25th of june, those people think this is an illegitimate government and we don't recognize them that's. that's the 1st thing that's dependence. i've understood that it, let me walk down to the other thing i would say is, how do is quotes for dialogue. but how do dialogue with someone who has been sent to you? is that a good? so the, the residential, i mean, it's 1111 cabinet sector tenants among those people was the meanest of going to do this is a month. and i said this with all 3 of contradictions. was blood on his hands. this is someone who over so the mother and the cunning, donald innocent on civilian some good words like adults like animals. so that's the

1st question. delta parsons was retained was the see of defense. this is a possible unconstitutionally deployed the media type is what you did just to mid. it looks sort central to the country. so now when brutal brings bucks, lots of people to the cabinets. what he's doing is spitting with the games of the people who died in the, in the past one month. so we kind of dealt with such a possible that he has no between no so no dialogue is what you're saying, right? and you are saying to me that so long as the coal issues and not address people will continue to go back to the streets. so what are the solutions? i'm going to plead, we say you've, we need a solution on how this protest are going to go on from now transport. if you have going on last long muscle, natalie, my children go to school in that will be, i walk in that will be, that means if this protest are going to be happening every tuesday, every 5 days and such ideas, that means my children and no go to school, i was no good luck and i am a single mother of 3 children kindly as

a human being. i wish i hope that this protest can take a big time to change this strategy. yes, kindly. so while you support the movement, you don't want lots of business, you don't want lots of life. okay. understood? i, i do understand where you, i try to understand where you're coming from. but uh, we are trying to talk with a problem. and as use, we feel the only only a venue we have left is protesting. why don't fit business people like you? our mazda is a part of our grunt putting try and come with an impala of voice to what's the problem? because we are not to the program, it is the government which is appropriate. okay. yes. so they, i'm p 5 so that we can actually tackle the actual problem. all right, let me get some more points. my solution is simply a band people you,

i didn't my unit us 70 percent of the population of this country. stop tribal is of the, excuse me, you know, the problem is failing to listen. why don't say you out a tribal, if i say we have been practicing, probably bullies them. you identify mission should stop. i want to see the next election. i want to see an election where you are going to elect people based on, on or not based on the policies that they want to send to you. so that when i go to maybe june, way comfortable. that's good to be able to guess that in this region, if so on. so he's given a ticket, then he gets it because at the end of the day, what do we help you to change systems? this is the democratic space you have in voting okay. because got in place, that's a fair point. i'd like to give this gentleman a chance he hasn't spoken. i think he'd also trickles down to the cfo's. and we,

as individuals, on how we can extensively conduct the civic education before the next elections. because you realize that some of us opinions, we are protesting, but we don't even know the rules of or govern us. amc is always seen, it says, so the cycle continues. it's a, it's another issue of cycle. they will come in the means, the symbolizes the deed. and will be bucking this feed show, doing the same thing. so we need to fix this thing. and it starts with we as individuals and also the government donates back because i don't see why the government funded civic education for them to tell us how to vote and not teach us why we shouldn't be working in the 1st place. all right, i liked that point. so getting formed, make sure that you know what you're doing before you get to the ballot. and finally, i'd like to hear from you more hard. let's close this with you. when the talks about your wait until the next election, that's 3 years to go. that's what it takes of the bundle. what you on site now is $46.00 of oversight of,

of civilians. we're going to take all of civic duty very seriously from now. and that's something that you've seen already throughout the day. on tuesday we had 2 different similar thing, a street spaces on wednesday. well, one group was teaching people about the bills that are being tabled in parliament. and the other group was teaching people, if a group of him boys were teaching people about their talk to you about the, the constitution and thinking it's don't in of it accessible. and we, so that's from the investigating. we're still going to sustain this. we're still going to read teaching a point to they're going to make life very uncomfortable for politicians and then a non violent treat. okay, let me just clarify, right. the 4th district continue with the discuss that we discussed, but they will continue. all right, so we have to rock that because of the time, but i did ask a question, you know what next? and i think the answer has been very clear here. that even if it's not on the streets, it's going to be somewhere online, or perhaps that's what debates like this. right? so i thank you all for participating. i did read somewhere that these protests will not so much on side government,

but the pro good governance. and i think this debate has clearly illustrated that. thank you for watching. the the,

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this is dw news line from berlin. tears are growing of a wider middle east conflict after israel accuses has been a lot of a deadly attack on the golan heights. is really air force says it struck hezbollah target both deep inside lebanese territory and southern 11 on overnight. israel says those strikes were in a retaliation for a rocket attack on a roof town that kills 12 children and teenagers. also coming out, if you will be a declares 3 days of morning for the victims of a mudslide in a remote part of the country. a week after the incidents diggers continue to search .