will this he receives the nobel peace, the 2 best best as china, september 27th on dw, the it's a study in contrast, cumberland harris and donald trump. the candidates aspiring to the us presidency displayed fear sweet, divergent visions and values once again in their televised debate. in one corner, harris for the democrats. the former prosecutor pledges generational change and an opportunity economy, strong alliances that support for americans, friends abroad. and the other corner, former president donald trump, for the republicans, promising to hype terrace, cut taxes, and shut down immigration. one thing is certain, the 2024 vote will deeply impact us relations with europe and china. us support for

allies and ukraine at the middle east. so we're asking which world view will for us choose the hello and welcome to to the point. it is a pleasure to greet our guests. daniel benjamin is president of the american academy, a trans atlantic institution. here in for land. eric here, schwab is an author and a freelance journalist who's written for media including writers and the los angeles times and stormy anika. this is director of the aspen institute, germany. it's great to have all of you with us story. what struck you most about the debate? were there particularly telling moments or confrontations or exchanges? first of all, i've 7 much looking forward to this debate because it was

a big moment for kind of the heart of the 1st presidential debate and 1st time also meeting donald funds and the expectations and hope a huge. and so i was very much looking forward, seeing how she would actually see it, how she would do in, in the beginning. i could see that she was a little bit anxious, excited because he had and the breathing. and then there was this clicking points when she became really a ford um and she talked to the voters to talk to him. um, it was almost like she is a new classroom and i found her pretty persuasive. and what we heard in, in the beginning is i think that she succeeded in point in painting to different pictures her as the younger, more progressive, reliable one point person uh, being structured, having a plan um for the economy. many other things. and uh the, the person who listens to people and whats um,

more unites than to buy it. and then she painted the, the other picture of a trunk was an older man who was rand 2 was maybe losing his line of thoughts who doesn't have a point of view, who's not listening to the people and who is the past? why fi is the future? and i thought that she does pretty wanda, and those are exactly the 2 world views. we mean, of course. so with today's title, daniel, who, if either of the candidates actually emerges strength and from this in your view, under conventional thinking debates don't really matter all that much. do you think this one did debates historically don't matter much, but this was a remarkable one. and most of the expert commentary afterward suggested that she won the most lopsided victory in this debate, possibly in the history of televised presidential debates. it was an important moment for her because there's still plenty of americans who say they don't really know her. i think it was clear that she passed to what's called the commander in

chief test. she appeared toys intelligent on top of her brief and compose. and so in that sense, it was in enormous lee important the door opener for her with a lot of the american public. it was also, i think, um, you know, an example of or it, it presented donald trump, at his weakness. and there was just so much incoherence and word salad and the you know, that his vocabulary has shrunk so much that it was really, you know, absolutely shocking. we're going to take a look later on at some of his sound bites. but let me ask you this, there was apparently at least one here to 4 undecided voter who was convinced by the debate. taylor swift issued an endorsement for cumberland harris directly after the debate ended. would you say an adult and or something like that, or endorsements by republicans like the former vice president dick cheney and his

daughter lives training. will they make a difference for campbell harris? they sure won't hurt. a taylor swift has about 300000000 instagram followers, and she has shown that she is able to get people to register to vote. i don't think there's been a lot of survey work to find out how many swift these have changed their views or going out and voted when they weren't going to. but i think you have to see that is a huge plus and we know that campaign wanted that a lot. now as for cheney, you know, dick cheney is as republican, old style republic. and as you can find in the us, and i don't know if it will make a big difference, but it certainly creates or what you might call it permission structure for traditional main street republicans to do something that they never thought they would do in their life. and cross the aisle and vote for a democrat. and we've all been wondering where are main street republicans who just

care about fiscal responsibility and a strong defense, a and a n a and a really powerful foreign policy. where are they going to go? i think dick cheney gave them a place to go, we'll see if they follow. eric, it was mentioned by daniels have in fact, at 28 percent of americans in a poll prior to the the, the debate those surveyed said they didn't have a good sense of who carmella harris is. and they needed to get to know her better. daniel just told her us, he thinks that she did actually accomplish that. would you agree? but she complex that she showed herself to be presidential, but she avoided a lot of the questions. she spent more almost half of her time attacking, taught trump, she got under a skin, she did a very good job of making him take him out of his game and making him talk about himself and the past rather than the future. so she did a very good job with that, but i'm not sure that a lot of undecided voters who know a lot more about coming here as now other than she did a solid job, did a fine job at the end of the debate. trump finally got back on his horse,

got back into the game, and raised the question that everybody wants to know. if he's done all these great that she wants to do all these great things, these wonderful things, why isn't she done the last 3 and a half years? and that's the main issue of this election, i think is going to be the economy and inflation, which is a big issue for a lot of a lot of voters, especially these midwestern swing states, away from the coast. so, um, yeah, i mean the leads the journalist, my thing come over here is did a very good job and she did a strong job, but i'm not sure it's going to move the needle a lot. and we know that these debates don't usually change that much except for in june, when trump knocked by an out of the race that was a knock out. and so the truck, by the way, was the most experienced vater in us history is, is the segments debate. so we're going to take a closer look at some of the, is that you mentioned in just a moment. but let me ask you this stormy so far. cumberland harris has not, has made a point of not playing the race card, but one of the big debate moderators reminded her that trump had said

a few weeks ago, that she only recently turned black. that's a direct quote. and she simply decried terms to use the same old tired play book and his attempt to divide americans. does race actually matter in this selection? i would say, um it does, it does awesome the topics for the off on the people who want to read. i think what the, what, who can complain team. this was also looking very closely at previous elections and campaigns. and i think they looked very closely at what also clinton this back then index into a lot of times plates, the woman cards. so to say and talks about the glass ceiling and not being able to push through the glass ceiling. and that's another topic or another. so to say, narrative coming on, how is this not pushing? and so she is on one hand side, not pushing the ways, tickets, so to say i, but also not pushing the, the woman issues. so to say,

and i think this is consciously done because she needs to not just reach the democratic and progressive spaces, but she also needs to eat into a part of the, of the electorate. which is loading a more um, routine for trump. and as, as the, the white lower class through color walker in the swing states. and we know that it all comes down to the swing states and facilitating the spring states folders. um, so she needs to have a projects in place or projection, which is um, so to say offers the home for more people. and in fact, the one card in the identity area that she does seem to be playing is for you just nearly 20 years younger than donald trump. and she talked about generational ange. daniel, do you think that will win over some of the voters that she needs to get if she wants to succeed in november? i think it will certainly help. uh she um, what the the,

the uh the campaign uh before button dropped out was um, the set by incredible on popularity because of the, the belief that we just had to steal old choices. if i could call some some potential that has a double haters do a couple of things that i couldn't stand a vote for either and, and that's one thing. and so she is a relatively fresh breath of air in that regard. the other thing is that the, you know, one of the big questions is will young people turn out to vote? and we've seen a search and registrations. we've seen research of interest in that cohort. and i think that is all to her benefit. so young voters are the ones who seem to be most turned off by donald trump. and so i think the, the emphasizing the generational change is usually important. so let's take a closer look now at a debate that in fact was chalk full of issues,

yet relatively light on policy. it was their 1st face to face and counter and the to spare, nothing in their 19 minute tv dual. donald trump was fired by 81000000 people. so let's be clear about that. and clearly he is having a very difficult time processing that. but we cannot afford to have a president of the united states who attempts, as he did in the past 2, up and the will of the voters in a free and fair election. trump trying to score economic points, price hike, st inflation, have americans worried? trump said he will cut taxes, but only for the rich, countered harris. the issue with migration is on people's minds. trump made unsubstantiated claims about migrants from haiti is springfield, they're eating the dogs, the people that came in, they're eating the catch,

they're eating, they're eating the pets of the people that live there. and this is what's happening in our country, and it's a shame. to contrast thing world fee is competing in the us election, harris versus trump, who has the better arguments and better chances. pass that question on to you, eric, and particularly in regard to inflation and economics, which are absolutely top of mind for many, if not most voters, president biden, because of those topics has had very low approval ratings for more than half of his presidency. numerous commentators suggested it would be very important for come to her as to distance herself from bite and she was offered the opportunity to do so in the very 1st question that that she got. and she didn't really grab it. will that hurt her? um no, she evaded in fact, and that's definitely a big problem for harris. she's got to go to this balancing act distance as whole

from bite and yet she's bite and vice president. so she can't do that. you might turn off some of the conservative voters in the midwest that she desperately and so she's got a difficult balancing act to do and the economy is a big issue. inflation is a big issue. i mean, objectively the us economy is in pretty good shape. thanks to buying inflation reduction act experience or other and but inflation is a big problem. people in america feel it. they complain about groceries going through the roof. and harris hasn't really come up with big answers that have satisfied a lot of people trump. for years under trump, people have missed allergic, positive feelings about the stock market booming about things going well. so trump is definitely stronger on the economy. and kimberly harris has a lot of work to do in the next 8 weeks to try to show that she has a bonafide good plan that will help the average american and stormy, in fact, going into the how's it going into the debate poll, showed that a far larger share of voters scribes economic competence to trump, them, to harris. now she did make some broad proposals about an opportunity economy and

measures to help families who are struggling with high prices. do you think that those will convince that set of voters that in fact, she has an economic so 1st of all, it's also attendance for her being really that going down into the different policy areas because she needs to talk to a wide range of democratic voters and the, and the, and decided on so she needs to address the progress of offer the progress of something, but also the conservative. so i think for the debate it was a strategy also not to go too deeply into the individual issue areas. but she also did other speeches where she did go more into economic issues where she became more concrete. and so she is offering of what she wants to do as an opportunity economy with a strong focus on the middle class and the noah income classes. she wants to lower taxes, especially for low on the income castles. she also addresses inflation by looking at prices,

especially in the food sector. and she sees this i'm competitive behavior, which she wants to go after. and she wants to give tax credits to families to 1st time home owners, but also to small, medium businesses and startups. so there is already a lot in there um and on coming back to your question with this um with this persuades the unimpressed way to voters. i am not so sure yet the course that is the other topics as well which matter and that is migration. and that is also to that new mama, pretender you. i think wanted to respond to something i expect. i saw a couple of things. one is that inflation is down to under 2 and a half percent. and this is right around the time when people are making up their minds. that is true. insulation is a sticky factor. if people remember it, a lot of the inflation we're having is due to all the, all the stimulus it was pumped in by trump and by binding during the pin demick.

but to me, the key thing is whether or not people are gonna actually think about the core of the kind of economic policies that are being proposed and trumps. the central thing for trump is essentially moving from texas to terror. and he claims that we're going to have some extraordinary winful by putting up tariffs on imports from 10 to 12300 percent. so, you know, that 1st of all has an inflationary and actually asked by taking presently denied that he said she come, come with her said, well, this is basically a sales tax on american consumers. and he denied that. do you think that resonates? well, you know, i don't think there's an economist in america except maybe a few working for trump, who believes that the tariffs are, as donald trump claims paid by the export in country. ultimately, you know, and it stops there and that there isn't passed on to consumers. and his notion that

we're going to suddenly have a sovereign wealth fund. you know, i'll also do a review or the u a. e. i think there's just a question of whether in the next 2 months, you know, people put on their thinking caps and say, what is, is this a real world prospect now people have fallen for fantasies before. we'll see if they go back and photo don't usually put your thinking caps on before elections. yeah. and, and, and also, i mean, we have seen that before, right. in the 1st time, the administration he raised terrace and that heard a lot of people, and it was still the same people who were hurt by this voting again, republican in the mid term elections and then off on the next presidential elections. so i mean, i don't know if this is really, i understood that this is going to hurt individual households. although the economists clearly was over to calculate what that would cost. so let's make a cut under that. i'm sorry, but since our time is limited, i want to get to migration because that is another major issue at the top of many voters minds. eric and it,

there were numerous mentions of immigration to put it mildly. in fact, donald trump circled back to it again and again and put out, disprove, and claims that there has been a massive surge in the entry of murder as lunatics and criminals. as he said, into the u. s. a. he also repeated disprove and claims that immigrants we heard it in the, in the report that immigrants has been eating people's pets and there was a fact check. he didn't hi, touch its wheels. this none the less appeal to voters who are worried about migration. i absolutely, i think the opinion polls are quite clear that integration and the problems of the open borders are perceived to be open quarters are real problem bite and has with the resolution drastically reduce that. but the problem is definitely there. and so it's an issue where trumpet seen a strong he pushed for the wall and his 1st term didn't get it because congress

didn't give him the money. but it's an issue that definitely reverberates. you hear about it when you talk to people in the us and it's a problem that for, kimberly harris is going to remain a problem for her right up to november 5th. and there is a crisis at the border. i mean that is, that can be denied and the by the administration did offer um april, which almost made it through congress. and then most code, but from for the course of election campaign strategy considerations. but why we know this, the general public, but in the kind of, of how it's did pointed out. but again, whether that thinks and let me ask about a 3rd major topic, abortion. and in fact, after that rather, defendant starts that you mentioned to the debate that is where kind of a her as really hit her stride. to what degree do you think her fervent warnings about it from abortion bound, she calls it will mobilize women and get them to the polls in a way that could really turn turn to a victory for her? i think that's a really decisive issue,

but we should also not forget that there is a mean a big con, conservative phase in the united states of people who are more critical to what's in boston. and they tend more to the republicans and to the fund kemp. and on the other hand, the for west of stand for i mean her anyway already and i'm not a 100 percent. sure. and then we'd be interested in hearing from, from you to, if this is going to persuade the, um, the undecided voters in the, in the swing states, i'm just going to let them do a yes or another down here. yes or no? yes, it's her strongest issue, it will raise a turn out for sure, and help democrats if she keeps talking about it. so we're going to stop our discussion of domestic policy with that and take a look at the foreign policy. and in fact, foreign policy is generally regarded as pretty low on the list of what turns elections low on the list of us voters concerns. nonetheless, the results in november could have a major impact on the global economy and on the conflict in ukraine and gaza. the

war in guns of both candidates wanted to end quickly because it has to stop the killing has to stop both called her mazda terrorist organization and there was no doubt america will remain a reliable partner for israel. however, the humanitarian situation in the gaza strip and the net on yahoo government have been more harshly criticized by the democrats and harris the by trump's. republicans. what is the candidate stance on nato and the war in ukraine? the us is by far ukraine's biggest supporter and the biggest nato donor time. and again, trump has said, if you're a dozen funds, nato went off, it is not entitled to protection for harris. nato is a vital instrument for strengthening american influence globally. and she stands by support for ukraine president. 7 ukraine and

regardless of who will be setting foreign policy in america after the election, the united states is shifting its focus away from europe and toward asia, especially to its major competitor, china, paris, or trump. what can the world expect in terms of us foreign policy? daniel, would you say that harris clinch to stand with america's friends abroad rather than play to the strong math? and do you think that that will win enough boats to ensure that she does in fact, convince not only the democratic base, but the undecided voters that she needs? i think that it strengthens uh, support for her with the democratic base to be sure the democrats are the right now, the party of alliances and of international, a strong international presence. i don't think many undecideds would be basing

their vote on foreign policy. i think it is quite possible that more dick cheney republicans will be, and people who are actually died in the will. republicans, my, my crossover. but you know, foreign policy is, is not the ticket to the election normally, if not, but i think um come on, the harris with war and peace, especially crane very cleverly in pennsylvania. appealed to the 800000 police. absolutely. the grams, and maybe so when a few of those in pennsylvania, you know, it's absolutely critical for whoever is going to win the election. and, and let me ask you this, eric, because in fact, a donald trump was pressed on whether he even wants ukraine to win the war. he said he would end it overnight and then he was pressed and he evaded that question, did not answer whether he wants to crane to win. what would that mean if trump wins the election? good question. it keeps talking about. he'll end the war to day, presumably, a mister crane on the part of russia and come to harris really points to pulling is

going to be worried about that in europe. will be worried about that. but as a single mentioned, foreign policy is usually not a big issue in the campaign, but it's interesting how clever cumberland has was to pick out an element out to try to win a few votes in pennsylvania. stormy watching this as a german face here in europe. what would you say in regards to both the trade and economy issues as well as the security issues? what does this choice essentially mean? so for europe, yeah. so in general, the united states, i and really important part that to us both economically is security wise. and on the matter of security and device, just log into credit and i think where we can, we would have more reliable partner with the, with a have us administration and a lot of continuity um, from what we've seen with biden. but what i think we need to be also very conscious office, that they will be in demand that retake up our own responsibility and also invest

in our own security. and that is something which we've heard already from the obama administration. then trump and now in biden, and, and i think she's going to continue those, and that would be in our own interest to invest in our capabilities and defense and security. so she would do that as well. why is still being also a very good i would, i would assume a good sense of and it's hard. last question and it goes to the world view and we heard such a clear expectation of these different world views at the end. trumps closing words were a failing nation series decline. we will end up in world war 3. harris, optimism and hope for your card or hope card, which with hope americans slots open usually happens to close the call. it's going to go right on november 5th. start just comes down to the same side what, which one is likely to prevail on this? we say, well i think that's stuff we're ready to call. that is still a pretty long. how would you say home stretch until you get to the goal?

and so she still has a lot to do. thank you very much. i hope we'll have a chance to look at it once again before the election and figure out what happened in the home stretch. i greatly appreciate you being with us. thanks to our viewers as well the the,

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