the the, this is dw news line from berlin, more explosions and 11 and at least 20 people are died in hundreds injured. and a new series of blasts. walkie talkies exploded on wednesday and the route and beyond. this after 12 people dine tuesday, when thousands of pages exploded, apparently targeting members of the notes and group has beloved the i'm aaron tilton and berlin. thank you very much for joining us. lebanese health officials say at least 20 people have been killed and more than 450 injured in

a 2nd wave of explosions involving communication devices. several explosions occurred and being rude, destroying a funeral for 3 members of the arm group has beloved and a child who died the day before from exploding pages. a cellphone shop, also called fire after an explosion. the latest wave comes just a day after hundreds of pages used by hezbollah exploded across lebanon and syria, killing at least 12, and injuring thousands. and i'm ben kelley. blue is a senior fellow with a foundation for defense of democracies, where he focuses on a wrong and it's proxies. thank you for joining us. so we're going to, we're explosions, apparently targeting around, back has blood and as many days, what do you make of what's been happening so far? so of all indications point to the fact that that's going to the prospect that i

should say that israel's foreign intelligence services are beyond this. there's several political and military games. these really you may wish to achieve. one is the signal, the seriousness about their desire to restore the 60, to 80000, internally displaced persons to the north. these folks plus the about 40 towns cities and villages in the north that have basically turned into ghost town since october 8. there was a real seriousness to get these folks back to a new normal. and in order for me to get back to a new normal, they have to push has to pull it back in to seize the hezbollah ground, rocket mortar and other attacks. second, of course, has the cabinet, has the lens would have turned style. lemme that's militarily, i think with these really is maybe trying to achieve. obviously it signal is how far are they able to penetrate, not just the personnel, but the command and control and the supply chain networks that you, these walkie talkies and other electronic communication devices. but it's the for says bullet out of this, a tit for tat scenario. if possible, it doesn't respond well then it's already lost a whole host of operatives,

but it has blood does respond and tries to say face, well, has broken, but risk losing its head. and that may allow is real to come and even harder militarily and restore to turns and clear the way for those 608-0000 displaced persons back. well, as you were saying, there are many people are pointing the finger at is really intelligent service. so what exactly does this say about has believes defense preparedness, just one day after the pager explosions that we saw are enjoying and killing. so many people to it would show both on the page or front as well as on the walkie talkie front. and again, one assumes that hezbollah had shifted indeed populate, reporting had said it has a good did ship to these electronic, lower tech communication devices because of the fear that cellphones could have been traced by these rallies. but indeed, it does show that how penetrated their supply chains are, how much knowledge until in terms of affordability service about the pieces that

they may want to get from the places that they may be going. and, and of course the last bit is internally how punctured their security services are and not just loving sizeable about the products and the patron of this prostate, which of these moments of public over on the bus we forget. in late july that is melania was killed that are in a bomb. it that was placed in the closet of his guest bedroom in an i r g c controlled safe house. so both liberties has beloved and these on like a public, a rod are like, you know, she very strongly right now at internal security changes because their weaknesses when it comes to domestic security has been exposed by these that covered attacks. now what exactly do these attacks mean for as well as ability to communicate with our operatives and operate more broadly? that obviously it's gonna introduce significant transaction costs for them to communicate with their operatives to get messages out, to get orders out to people that have a more linear kind of command and control. all of those things are going to have short to medium term battlefield challenges. the one area where i actually do have

concerns in the long term though. if you remember between the end of the may 2021 more with a mouse in israel. and the stars of the october 7 terrorist attacks, there was no indication at least non popularly reported indication that these really sense such planning was ongoing. so there was a longer term fear here that as has blood continues to degrade the quality of its communication equipment. it could essentially go dark and rely on personnel, and if he's released, don't have the intelligence about which personnel are carriers that it's highly likely that it has was planning may go dark. so that's something they think about here, as well as particularly possible that takes another page and i'm off playbook. now the long term goals are actually quite an interesting question. why do you think that is real chose to actually execute an operation of this scale? now, is there anything that we can interpret from the timing? ok, well the now elements of your question is very interesting. it's been somewhat answered by popular reporting, particularly by the new york times and axioms about us. some folks are having some

suspicions on the 1st day about this communication technology about the beavers and the line that's been cascading in the western press. now is that some, if indeed a they believe it is, is real that somebody is real, assume it would be a, use it or lose at the moment. so either before this technology, which had basically been hacked or booby traps was exposed by internal security or lebanese has the law. it has to be use. so that may explain the timing of it. and also the fact that there hasn't been a major arrow ground defensive by these really interesting because everyone had been assuming within the hours of the 1st attack, meaning the beeper attack that this could have been the precursor to a larger is really offensive to push back as well, or at least pass where you in resolution 17. no one required them to go. now let's broaden this out for a moment. how much of a below is this all for as well as most important support or run? that's really the $1000000.00 question here in the run itself has not promised the same kind of hard retaliation or revenge that they had promised after the killing

of a smile. any intent run again in late july by what may assume to be again, israel's foreign intelligence services. and you need what can even look at the comments of the form, mr. mr. rob. she recently where he condemned the attack and claimed to stand with the lebanese even mentioned that he runs in bass or to be rude. someone who we believe is tied to these nomic revolutionary guard core. i even mentioned that he was injured, but did not promise the same kind of crushing revenge even in the instances that these aren't gonna go public did promise that same question were managed. they haven't taken it yet. and i think one reason why beyond the conventional the turn switch you beyond the reason that these veronica public knows this outcome is as we get closer to the one year anniversary of october 7. i think the public master for many of these proxies, is pushing back surveying the chessboard and trying to consolidate game is. and unfortunately, i think the trend lines are no matter the military successes. and no matter the operational successes of these relays, i still think that the leaders into around think things are going their way at the

500000 foot level. that's an interesting point. now, based on what you're saying, it seems that iran is pre putting the brakes and it has beloved, but it, some people are hearing that after the last 2 days explosions that we could be closer to an all conflict between as a boy and is real. do you think that is a real possibility as well to clarify, i don't see the islamic republic as pumping the brakes on has blown, but i see these wanna make a public is not going to at that moment. get as directly as involved as it did. let's say back in april of this year where in response to the april 1st attack by these rallies in damascus that went out for several high ranking a i r, g c, and could force personnel in damascus in the building be running. this claim was linked to the consulate, but ended up not being, it was an antics these on a couple look fired overtly and directly from its own territory. for the 1st time in history. a $300.00 plus project house, including the ballistic missiles,

cruise missiles and drums against israel. and then obviously given the failure of some of that striking military mismatch after the success of these really response . on the august on april 19th, i think the some of the public is pushing back and i tried to re consolidate on the homefront. but i do think they are quite keen on having has will continue to chip away and to go back to that tit for tat kind of a retribution. you had reuters earlier today, talk about an attempt by lebanese has by using rockets against what they allege was idea of artillery positions in the north. i don't believe that's right, has been confirmed, but if indeed it is. this could be, has blood trying to say no, we will not go for what they may claim is something of a beta. meaning an attempt to break out of the tit for tat, and rather they will keep the study persistent fire that is prevented. many is released from going back to their homes for 11 months, so i'm afraid we'll have to leave it there. and that was been them, been kelley blue. thank you very much for your now. so you appreciate it. now israel has not commented on the attacks that turn has bullets indication devices

into explosives. but most security analysts believe that is really intelligence infiltrated the supply chain or distribution network of the pages that explode it tuesday. here's more on where those painters came from. i this is an a paulo pager . the model that exploded simultaneously across lebanon has the law started using the devices extensively last year for security reasons. unlike mobile phones, they can be traced. experts say most likely the pages contained explosives, possibly just 2 or 3 grams that were inserted at some point between manufacturer and delivery. but the supply and delivery chain are murky. the pages were marked with the logo of the gold apollo company in taiwan. but the company's chairman says his firm didn't actually make them go to this company. the ac has cooperated with us and has represented many of our

products for about 3 years. we have to they also wanted to make pages and asked me if they could use our companies brand name, middle to pay. there's of, they've paid is the brand name fee and they designed it themselves. and he said he know, well, you might have that takes us to hungary were b, a c, consulting is located in the capital booted past the address listed for b. a. c is a simple building that appears to be the legal headquarters for multiple firms. at this point, the picture grows even mark here. it's not clear yet if the a see actually made the devices. nor is it clear when hezbollah ordered them or when they arrived. it appears that at some point between order and delivery is real and intelligent service was able to get hold of the pagers and insert explosives and a detonator before delivery to hezbollah. the pages apparently ran for months before

exploding signs of a sophisticated operation that must have been planned long before. justin capitol is, is a professor in the computer science and engineering department of new york university. she talked to us about whether there was a risk for other items, for example, medical devices such as pacemakers that could be manipulated as well. absolutely. um, in fact uh, the vice president, a former vice president dick cheney, his pacemaker was not network connected and needed special um, equipment for people to be able to interact with it exactly to protect against this type of threat. and i think that this threat, you know, it's very common to think of things like medical devices and this is a very serious, very real threat. but there are other aspects out there that are also very, very serious threats. automobiles, for instance, the automotive industry has done a tremendous job of improving their security. but there still is quite

a long ways to go. and you can imagine what would happen if an organization is able to get in and disable the brakes. or, you know, force acceleration of a large number of cars in a major metropolitan area. it would be pandemonium. and that doesn't require any of the types of supply chain attacks that you saw here, which to me is really the newest thing about this type of attack. that is, you know, allegedly israel was able to go and interfere input explosive inside of a lot of these devices. that was computer scientists just on campus there. and now here's a quick look at some other stories making headlines around the world. the un general assembly has strongly back to resolution demanding and, and israel's occupation of the palestinian territories. within 12 months. it was supported by 124 of 193 members. with $43.00 extensions, the tax is based on an advisory opinion from the international court of justice

that calls is realized post 1967, the occupational unlawful. israel rejects the non binding resolution. the ukrainian drones have struck a military depot and rushes to your regions. just 400 kilometers north west of moscow officials and kia claimed responsibility for the attack. seeing that hit a warehouse containing missiles and sparked a huge blaine's attack steep inside rush, i have stepped up as you crane continues to develop. it's thrown technology and here's a quick reminder of our top story that we're following for you at this hour. a lot of these officials say at least 20 people had been killed in a hundreds more injured in a 2nd round of explosions of communication devices used by his beloved this time walkie talkies. with that and age, it comes a day after thousands of pages used by hezbollah exploded, killing 12 singleton proclaims is real for the explosions and says they will not go unpunished. and with and you're up to date,

but it will stick around. up next one woman's flight, you recognize as a reference in a male dominated genre that's on choices after a short break. and there until the berlin. thank you very much for joining us. the, the innovation green, the green revolution global. so listen to whole lot of crime, it's probably up to speed if the carriers by the time is helping subscribe to those channels to subscribe to plan, it's a i was the only reason what i need more explanation or not. and then i started like doing the mix is more to boss.