the, the, this is dw news line from berlin, tears of an all out war between israel. it has the law. after a 2nd wave of explosions and whether or not several people were killed in hundreds of millions of when it has for walkie talkies blew up on wednesday. is real, hasn't commented on the last. what the defense minister says, a new phase in the war has begun. the i'm aaron tilting berlin. thank you very much for joining us. lebanese health officials saying at least 20 people have been killed in more than 450 injured in

a 2nd wave of explosions involving communications devices. the latest wave comes just a day after hundreds of pagers used by hezbollah, which is considered a terrorist group by several countries, exploded across lebanon, syria, killing at least 12, an injury in thousands. fanny confused off through a device. it explodes that a funeral for a has full of flights installed in lebanon. it was just one of many bloss across the country. so much funerals. all this at the big tronic stalls like this one in the city of side of people here. and those kids are using any type of electronic device hope of competing decided, you know, i didn't expect what happened today. things are repeating all over again. now. we have some devices here that we believe 100 percent safe. but out of portion we

remove them from the store because we covered um, i'm not in the flooded last way. this room, it says subtracting that lithium batteries and solar panels. i exploding. if i had solar panels or lithium batteries at home, i would definitely disconnect the, even though these rooms are probably false, people are still afraid to lose which ones will the bus will have the, the, because the latest wave of explosions came just the date of the hundreds of features used by hezbollah exploded across lebanon and syria, killing at least 12 and injuring thousands. pest bull up puts the blame on israel. many of the militant groups members have been using pages, and similar low tech devices to void is released. the valence is real, hasn't commented on that tax directory, but it's defense minister, sense level, a clear message for this one, the mileage on the whole. i believe that where the stock of the new face and the

war for how the show and we must adapt with the homogeneity sheet. first of all, the center of gravity is moving north much. this means we're shifting resources, forces, and energy in that direction being. we haven't forgotten the hostages phone, and we haven't forgotten now. goals in the south riddle for hosting with i'm single channel. we don't how to teach, and we're addressing both and kind of uh, this action involves all agencies. so the, the, with a clear and simple goal, want to return the residence of the northern communities to the homes safely. i shall be much off on the theme, should i be the home? but safe team. the region could be hot to the chief extensions between israel and has black continue to escalate a ben. ben kelley blue is

a senior fellow with a foundation for defense of democracies, where he focuses on a run and it's proxies. he gave me his assessment of the parents of tax and it has the lower level non so of all indications point to the fact that the point to the prospect that i should say that israel's foreign intelligence services are beyond this. there's several political and military games. these really you may wish which each one is the signal, the seriousness about their desire to restore the 60, to 80000, internally displaced persons to the north. these folks plus be about 40 pounds cities and villages in the north that have basically turned into ghost town since october 8th. there was a real seriousness to get these folks back to a new normal. and in order for me to get back to a new normal, they have to push has the back in to seize the hezbollah grown rocket mortar and other attacks. second, of course, is the tech that has the language to turn style. lemme that's militarily, i think what these really is maybe trying to achieve. obviously it's

a goal is how far are they able to penetrate? not just the personnel, but the command and control and the supply chain networks that you, he's walkie. talkies and other electronic communication devices. what is the force as bullet out of this? a tit for tat scenario is possible. it doesn't respond well then it's already lost a whole host of operatives, but it has blood does respond and tries to say face while it has broken, but risk losing its head. and that may allow as well to come and even harder militarily and restore to turns and clear the way for those 608-0000 displaced persons back. well, as you have more seen, there are many people are pointing the finger at as really as intelligent service. so what exactly does this say about hezbollah as defense preparedness? just one day, after the pedro explosions that we saw are enjoying and killing so many people it would show both on the page or front, as well as on the walkie talkie font. and again, one assumes that hezbollah had shifted. indeed, popular reporting had said it has a blended shift to these electronic,

a lower tech communication devices because of the fear that cellphones could have been traced by these rallies. but indeed, it does show that how penetrated their supply chains are, how much knowledge content in terms of affordability service about the pieces that they may want to get from the places that they may be going. and then of course, the last bit is internally how puncture their security services are and not just is not being sensible about the products and the patron of this prosecution. these womic republicans are on the bus. we forget. in late july that is, melania was killed in a bomb. it was placed in the closet of his guest bedroom and an iron g. c controlled safe house. so both liberties has beloved and these monica public around are like a bushing very strongly right now at internal security changes because their weaknesses when it comes to domestic security has been exposed by these colbert attacks. now what exactly do these attacks mean for has the ability to communicate with our operatives and operate more broadly?

are obviously it's gonna introduce significant transaction costs for them to communicate with their operatives to get messages out, to get orders out, to be able to have a more linear kind of come in and control. all of those things are going to have short to medium term battlefield challenges. the one area where i actually do have concerns is in the long term though. if you remember between the end of the may 2021 more with a mouse in israel. and the start of the october 7 terrorist attacks, there was no indication at least non popularly reported indication that these really sense such planning was ongoing. so there was a longer term fear here that as has blood continues to degrade the quality of its communication equipment. you can essentially go dark and rely on personnel, and if he's released, don't have the intelligence about which personnel are carriers that it's highly likely that it has was planning may go dark. so that's something to think about here as well, particularly possible that takes another page and i'm off playbook. now the long term goals are actually quite an interesting question. why do you think that is

real chose to actually execute an operation of this scale? now, is there anything that we can interpret from the timing as well? the now elements of your questions very interesting. it's been somewhat answered by popular reporting, particularly by the new york times and axioms about us. some folks are having some suspicions on the 1st day about this communication technology about the beavers and the line that's been cascading in the western press. now is that some, if indeed a they believe it is, is real that somebody is real, assumed it would be a, use it or lose at the moment. so either before this technology, which had basically been hacked or booby traps was exposed by internal security for lebanese has the law, it had to be use. so that may explain the timing of it. and also the fact that there hasn't been a major arrow ground defensive by these really interesting because everyone had been assuming within the hours of the 1st attack, meaning the beeper attack that this could have been the precursor to a larger is really offensive to push back as well,

or at least pass where you went. resolution 17. no one required them to go. now let's broaden this out for a moment. how much of a below is this all for? as well as most important support or run? that's really the $1000000.00 question here in the run itself has not promised the same kind of hard retaliation or vendors that they have promised after the killing of a smile. any intent run again in late july by what may assume to be again, israel's foreign intelligence services. and you need what can even look at the common for the, for mr. mr. rob. she recently where he condemned the attack and claimed to stand with the lebanese even mentioned that he runs in bass or to be rude. someone who we believe is tied to these nomic revolutionary guard corps. i even mentioned that he was injured, but did not promise the same kind of crushing revenge. yet, even in the instances that these are gonna go public did promise that same question were managed. they haven't taken it yet. and i think one reason why beyond the conventional the turn switch you beyond the reason that these veronica public knows this outcome is as we get closer to the one year anniversary of october 7. i think

the public master from any of these proxies is pushing back surveying the chessboard and trying to consolidate game is. and unfortunately, i think the trend lines are no matter the military successes. and no matter the operational successes of these relays, i still think that the leaders into around think things are going their way at the 500000 foot level. that's an interesting point. now, based on what you're saying, it seems that iran is pre putting the brakes on it has beloved, but it, some people are hearing that after the last 2 days explosions that we could be closer to an all conflict between as a boy and is real and do you think that is a real possibility as well to clarify, i don't see these monica public as pumping the brakes on his board, but i see these womic republic is not going to at that moment. get out directly as involved as it did. let's say back in april of this year were in response to the april 1st attack by these rallies in damascus that went after several high ranging

iron, g c, includes force personnel in the masks of the building. the running this claim was linked to the consulate, but ended up not being, it was an annex. these article public fired, overly and directly from its own territory. for the 1st time in history. a $300.00 plus project house, including ballistic missiles, cruise missiles, and drums against israel. and then obviously given the failure of some of that strikes and military mismatch after the success of these really response on the august on april 19th, i think he's on the public is pushing back and tried to re consolidate on the homefront. but i do think they are quite keen on having has blood continued to chip away and to go back to that tit for tat kind of a retribution. you had reuters earlier today. talk about an attempt to buy liberties has by using rockets against what they allege was. id of artillery positions in the north. i don't believe that's right, has been confirmed, but if indeed it is, this could be has been trying to say no, we will not go for what they may claim is something of a bait. meaning an attempt to break out of the tit for tat,

and rather they will keep the study persistent fire that has prevented many is released from going back to their homes for 11 months. so. all right, i'm afraid we have to leave it there. and that was been i'm been kelley blue. thank you very much for your now. so you so far is real, has not commented on the attacks that turned as well as communication devices into explosives. but most security analysts believe that is really intelligent, infiltrated the supply chain, or distribution network of the pages that explode to tuesday. there's a closer look at where those devices actually came from. this is an a paulo pager. the model that exploded simultaneously across lebanon has the law started using the devices extensively last year for security reasons. unlike mobile phones, they can be traced. experts say most likely the pages contained explosives, possibly just 2 or 3 grams that were inserted at some point between manufacturer and delivery. but the supply and delivery chain are murky. the pages were marked

with the logo of the gold apollo company in taiwan. but the company's chairman says his firm didn't actually make them go to this company. the ac has cooperated with us and has represented many about $4.00 for about 3 years. we have, who does he, they also wanted to make pages and asked me if they could use our company's brand name. mean to pay is of the paid is the brand name fee and they designed it themselves. and he said he not, would you mind that takes us to hungary were b, a c, consulting is located in the capital booted past the address listed for b. a. c is a simple building that appears to be the legal headquarters for multiple firms. at this point the picture grows even mark here, it's not clear yet if the

a see actually made the devices, nor is it clear when hezbollah ordered them or when they arrived, it appears that at some point between order and delivery, israel's intelligence service was able to get hold of the pagers and insert explosives and a detonator before delivery to hezbollah. the pages apparently ran for months before exploding signs of a sophisticated operation that must have been planned long before. or that's it for now, but don't forget you can always get the the be news on the go. just download our app from google play or from the app store that will give you access to all the latest news from around the world as well as push notifications for any breaking news. and of course, there's lots of sports and business news, entertainment news as well. and you are up to date for to stick around up. next we have a documentary about sean king, one of the fastest growing megacities in china. i'm here until the berlin. thank

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