at least the 2 best best as the china saw september 27th on dw, the as the warning ukraine brings ever more death and destruction. key european officials fair most go is now preparing for conflict with the west. i guess this week goes along with that view, these cofer rosen heads of a stony as intelligent service. but he still believes russia can lose our task in the best to be to make sure that the russia comes out of this conflict as a weekend. the polar. so how united is the west, and how vital is it that ukraine gets the weapons? it's one tougher. rosie you welcome to come pick those children in your view. how long does the west have before it might or

might have to fight to war with russia? of course i have to say that we don't really truck at the developments in the best . the question is, the answer to that question is it should be as long as why shaw is defeated. i don't know. and i think this is a mission which is absolutely possible to conduct or you say that, but the annual intelligence reports in february, you said that the military confrontation with the west, russia was preparing for that. and that could happen within 10 years. so there are other people, other officials in europe who sure thing that timeline in july, the chief of the general staff of the british army general roney woke of one, but nato had 3 to 5 years to prepare for war with what he called them,

access about people, that's russia, china, north korea, and if we're on, do you agree with that? oh, okay, so for me to understand the question, but the point is that the timeline when the time the space, what we have on our disposal before the potential conflict with russia, the 1st uh there are several factors now in, in the pipeline low cost for us we have to make sure that this potentially event doesn't happen. important. so the 1st be placed on is a home with us, the contract, the new cream, and that will determine the future bath. yeah. or for russia, who's that risk? so in, in this, this issue, if we have a situation after the, let's say ukraine rush of war, we had rush out,

emerges from that as a big torrijos, very self confident power. it really made court calculations. and based on that, the new situation, then our task being the best should be to make sure that russia comes out of this conflict as a beacon polar which or who might be then as ordering some of the internal programs which would probably or run into if there is a russian defeat in the end of the contract and i think pointed with not to wife russian defeat. that the 2nd question is how long it takes to watch and store it, close it, do it or generate forces. we have to keep in mind that and i would like to talk about the notion of the constitution. i would like to name the issue, maybe russian 1st generation or russian forces development may have to keep in mind

that there are some all forces today are set about 100000 mind bigger than it was before the before launching the large scale invasion. and that this is the capability to spot the shock deeps generating forces to generate additional manpower. uh, wanting it to be gotta be got programs to meet the general, i think. but according to they are on tech, and with that and or of course, i'm a nation production and agreement to the production with the order refurbishment, the production with the items. also, we know, you know, what's actually are the ones that come on and deal with some of those issues in, in detail. but this month's newspaper reports you're talking about. russia needs to be weak. if, if the west is to avoid a boy much weak from its will with ukraine, this month, newspaper report say russia had already received more than $200.00 ballistic

missiles from iran at a port on the s b and c. and there was a risk of it more would be provided if there was massage, keep coming from iran and from other members of that so called access to about people. russia isn't going to emerge. we kids come a much, much stronger, isn't that if this trend continues to, the russians have come up to trying to boost up. it's made it 30 strength or, and of course, based on that means that his drink, they are conducting graduation and wolf a be the ukraine. so all the task is to make sure that the creation that aisha is using a beneficial but the mom buddies beneficial on the 4 point print. it is also i would assess that the rush. i cannot keep this position rate up for coming. yes and yes. so we have to make sure that the ukrainians have the power to at 3 the

russians as, as much as possible. and the question is, how do we know it's a deal with that? why sion, the intention bought resolve the ukraine end result, me read the rest again. the main task, while i bought the after the sort of before it comes to any, but they've gone, take the dream, the nato and russia is to make sure that, that you create an image as a, as a, as a big let's say, as being part of this, this quantity because 1000, but it doesn't look like that at the moment. does it? it doesn't look like you have is winning. it's, it's, it's suffering steady loss is on the east and from nevermind the fact that it's advance its own forces into the cossack region. inside russia, but it's not doing well on the eastern front of toilers. it is a, i think situation has been difficult, but i wouldn't say that the russians are, let's say, doing great. the item that i show is probably a lot of would like to do is to treat the crating on part as much as possible.

possibly so that being up front would collapse, but i don't see that happening any time. sure. so and i'm not sure either. you have to rush and have a clear big story strategy. also. i'm not sure they have that very, very clearly defined. they have at the end of public rhetorics of you know, what they want the looked at, based on what they say. but in the reality, it's something they kind of what the chief of all i would say different come to suppose it was a wall with the west. uh, i think he respects and then they thought, but this also again, we have to make sure that this respect continues over the coming years and then it comes to all apart then how well or be prepared, how would our web transport, eastern plank so you're starting he'd like to have a boy,

if you can get away with it, is that too easily? you know, the feeling that she gets away and nothing happens to him. he comes out clean and then it might run into the calculations. but i would say if i come back to ukraine, rush us advice, and then let's say even if it comes to the situation where there will be negotiations between the russia and maybe ukrainians. but i want to assess that that i shall score likely, likely only would like to talk to the americans only over the heads of your parents . and they would also like to discuss the not donio crane, but also the broad executed the, the secuity architecture. so what they call in but be used to push nato capabilities and activities as far as possible from the ocean boulder and based and create a new situation on the ground. a based on that. and then again calculate for what

the truck from that moment and this type of discussion. all, lesley is various things that i see if it comes to the agenda. okay, sweet. oh, oh, you talked about the need for, for nato to up its game. how much face do you have in the alliance? at the moment i ask, because 2 years ago, your former prime minister kind of carlos was highly critical of nato's plans to defend the baltic states. she said they would have resulted in a stony, a big wiped off the map has made so up to its game where its planning is concerned . how does it, how does it come up with a upon like value in the 1st place? and i don't know how it came up with a plan like this, but i have the feeling that the was pretty helpless, wasn't it? then it was definitely not beneficial for us. but i would say, as far as i know, the plans have changed in that regard. the and, but it's a constant book. now of course,

a new stop of discussion in may talk between nato allies or different allies of different viewpoints, which is the oldest under. but it's a beauty of that last, but i think we are on the right track. most of the companies on just on the trip, but that i suppose is also meet and long term. and there is a general understanding that we have to be prepared or we have to be prepared to protect those simple defend dollars. so what about the troops that kind of call us one to the nato chose between 20 and 25000 to be based in estonia, as that happened when it happened. and the that's part of the question, more for chief of defense, how many troops are needed here? and well, she went public saying that it is, it hadn't happened and she needed it to happen. i'm the last reports we have had saying that it hasn't happened. so i started putting the question to you. absolutely, because i think the question here is about the what you want. it's all designated

for, let's say, a reinforcement, the re, again, concrete numbers are more in the defense voice us the domain probably the question is how many totes you have for what the pro, it's in the piece time, which must be also manage oven both in training get as an economically and what is probably important for us is that the we have already made the troops designate that for potential for along the reinforcements, which then it would be launched in after a proper early warning that he's given. so it was here on, so do you have enough troops or not at the moment to repel, to repel a russian advance? should that be one? i think we with the few up we would give up, would fight the russians. and then hopefully reading some reinforcements with the right rapidly, according to the plants. and do you have

a cost on guarantee that more than 30 countries, the members of nato will fight side by side with you if you are attacked. uh, i'm pretty confident in that, but again, the small print is it, it's not the not to go 5. yeah, but the it, so the question is alternate the defense plants, which are the ones that develop and it's a ongoing, but that's how it is. and we've been talking about a possible will with russia, but in the sense it's already begun. how soon to talk, if you can talk to me a little bit about the sabotage operations that have the kremlin fingerprints on them. not just getting started here, but elsewhere in europe is this, is this a growing trend? well, it is a total of what the national finks it can use against invest in order to disrupt us, to bring things on a dollar. so saw this, rochelle probably hopes that they read,

relying on the article 5 would be disagreement isn't this, don't ok this, we have more than 15 people arrested. what the last the year in the connection with the russians double doesn't give me this. it seems that this all perfectly these conduct the trout, the europe, i'm in the bottom of the awesome, etc. it is something serious of a these, these attacks. i would say if i open the door and in case then they live in the battery slit a lot, we have the incidence of vandalism mutual and let's say more of this harmless the op to us. and the question is, of course, the, let's say the how it develops it has been, it has escalate that they hold his own thought and read the cut over the last year . so if this, the revere him of destabilizing your country, or just keeping you on your toes or making people nervous, what

a mandatory mention. it also tries to undermine probably on the mind to support of the 2 parts to your grade. yeah. if you stipulate disrupt us, it is here to tell you our resource so, so we would pay more attention and though it was internal issues and trying to bypass our attention from the support the to do the upgrade. and let's talk about ukraine's urgent request to use long range west of messiahs on targets in russia. your president, our counters port school and on the nato countries that have withheld use of that long range missiles for you, correct? because of fears of escalating, the crisis was the right to do that. you said it was pure self deception and reflected indecision and fear which played into russian hands. if your president is right, the nato is becoming and decisive and fearful,

the nato is no longer fit for purpose. is it when i have to aggravate me is my president know in this code and perfect. you know some many. if you're looking at the eastern or there are some 7 or other, that's a new federal dimes. what that i show has sometimes successfully installed in the head of best, and that's the 1st the 1st battle dying. but that i shall see all trying to communicate is that the conflict should happen only on the 1030 of the victim and the address on or whether what agent should be remain on touched. this is the 1st time in the military history. and the 2nd idea of what the issue is that trying to and it to communicate automatically pulled directly to us. is that the right? it is impossible for russia to lose. again, it's not the correct the right size, last 7 of or so the throughout the they use the result. i know,

but the as of may so i'm not persuaded of that. all the other members are showing in his woods in decision and fear of a rush on. so i'll try and do the install this free or so it is, of course a task for us, for the eastern front, gone to there's 2 people explaining this to all the rest the allies. and i think down the standing is also need to be changing a already and also in the, in more invest in the contest. but the, i agree it has, let's say taken too long time. uh, vote for this change. whether it's an ongoing process, isn't it? because your president said, i hear several countries expressing it does offer a quick diplomatic solution and compromise with russia. and there's a spreading hope that resetting relations with pollutants. russia is possible or even inevitable. you don't believe that. do you know my life? i mean, i am convinced that the russian government,

where he must be defeated strategically because he, even if we didn't, is partially successful. you need so objective. so to reassess that, he would continue and print it because the warranty knew, crane would be not over and meet me. and if you have a pros and conflict that at some point the something the, something like and so, and they have those understand that the russians are, according to themselves. they are in the war already with the collective, the best in their own understanding. so i don't see the many options because if you talk about the longer term going to go as an ocean, then the make sure that your brain ends being at that again, i think it this store, but actually if the ukrainians don't get the weapons, they need or permission to use the ones they have inside russia?

will it be impossible for them to when? i think that one weapon system that i'll talk, i'm simple example. it's a, that's a long range human size. yes, i think it has to be, it has become very symbolic. at this point. i looked at this map on 1000 and sort of the conflict a dog. but the question is, it's about the, where the body that goes bought or, or, or understanding from russian side to that they are able to detour us and based on, on their thoughts. luckily, they will create as having them and not being they own weapons, which seems to be sometimes more patient. and then i look at what happens in russia, but we've had a ukrainian politician on this program just a week ago saying the west has given us enough weapons to fight, but not enough to win. that's the view coming out of ukraine at the moment. don't

you see where they're coming from? it is hard to argue. little bit with this. it is on a threshold boyfriend, so the at the, in the side with more bills and more resource really been. there's a question about the pro ration rate for both sides. ukraine meets additional debt, both of those in the nation to make that happen. august the so again, we shouldn't be somehow we shouldn't the registry know a set ups in digital bought things you'll create with any type of weapon. so i'm a nation they need and i agree that the it has taken to a long time, but as authorization, so they'll be made. but again, i don't see that the cost is lost properly at this point, but there are, there are divisions emerging in europe among nature. we have the check president present pabo saying ukraine needed to be realistic. the most probable outcome of

the war would be that russia would hold on to some of the territories. it's capture at least 10 pray. that's pretty defeat just isn't the fact idea. takes root nato. that's not going to be good to ukraine. is it a little over talking point is that ukraine can still be in this? so the discussions do we have the seems to be, or in contrast to nato countries. russia has been busy transforming its economy into a war economy. it's turning out there are munitions and advanced weaponry, some of which is not so far, appearing on the battlefield. does that not suggest to you that russia is preparing for a much bigger conflict? the, let's say the current about me see is that all the resources? so for rush, i'm on for so. so the russian federation imprinted. but boy and good. what's

your crate? so if you look at the situation currently along all up with us, there is not much, there are some military power available for the, from the ocean side. so that's, that's step. who would know? so the question is, if the, if it takes for russians so wrong, and it's so painful to try and do the feet, feel great. and then the question is, how would it, how would that i shot before them against the rest, which is much more advanced. i'm not sure that would go on the conflict, but the jump warranty would go out in the ocean. the favor. of course, we have to make sure that the noa site, the proper resources, clients, equipment available, nomination stokes, or at the, let's say needed 11. i would say best is, of course, if the war stops in the rest of the active face of the conflict,

the stop so we can buy the light or it least would be, it needs to be very painful. what full russian economy to come out of this war economy the moment that would be very interesting to watch, so they would keep producing. and from that point, the lawn, if we think of a patient, we should have been, you know, crane from that point on that, that's a growth or progression. we thought a, he's then speeding up, i would say, ukraine's president of the landscape has taken his what he calls his victory plan through washington to run it past the americans. he said it's a plan to strengthen ukraine and force russia to the negotiating table. is ukraine able to do that in your view for russia to the negotiating table? i haven't seen the victoria plan again. currently, all you do not see any reason from russian side to negotiate anything uh,

syncs again the, let's say the best thing you'd weakness know best invites further escalation from device on site. it's all just saved it as we can and it says it is weight based on division in the way i think we are actually a much stronger if we would be more be link to let's say play out this strength. and then the other point is that what, what, what is, what are you waiting for? what's, what's the west waiting for? know, well, uh, i mean they've been enough cookies and enough warnings v on or pushing the rest and allies. and not only be all the time is of the daily daily book, and this is the basis a patient. but again i, i see some movement. so i'm not that basic music and all that on the day as a, in a book they have to point to one of the points in the presidency landscapes. victory

plan is that he wants further security guarantees that we'll, that'd be worth the paper. the risk not even if he gets them the budapest memorandum, which was suppose to, uh, secure, uh, ukraine's future when he gave up it's nuclear weapons in 1994 hasn't done so well for them as it, particularly since it was a guarantee both by russia and america, so visa bought to bring them faster to data, which would be the proper notice if you were to go on to in our view, is, is ukraine going on when not at the moment, does it nothing less? the west gets its act together and gives it the weapons. is it so going to wind noble. uh we have to think joe, what, what is it duration shop? what if it got a in europe and then the lower the price. uh lets say bins, as i said in this case, and that basically would that would be taurus, self confident, thrush out,

which would make for the long calculations based on the new situation. we would have a huge pro. well, for if we choose from ukraine, if let's say it, i sure would take over the country in 141 other. and we would have a situation where the ukraine and resources would it would be towing against of us by the russians. about what keeps you awake at night when we are looking day and night, do let's say prevent that from happening. how long as well for us this is existing show the issue we understand so that kind of be tired of doing that right. couple of really soon it's good to have you on the program. thank you very much for being with us. thank you very much for having the

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. this is dw news coming to live from berlin. desperate calls for a cease fire on the israel 11 on board the united states, the european union, and several air of nations pushed for a $21.00 day hall to finding as is real and has, will continue to exchange daily missile strikes. meanwhile, israel's army tells troops to prepare for ground assaults, also coming up as ukraine, 6 western support for long range missile strikes. russia issues the nuclear warrant . vladimir putin says he'll consider using his arsenal in response to western weapons being used to attack russia.