the significant risk of human extinction from advancing our system. our series continues to d. w. the nigeria is back said the new president. last year when he took over the german shapes of the west, african regional block echo was he pledged to boost his country's influence. after years of inward looking administration, economic malaise and security challenges. i spoke about that with the countries for ministry use of to go in a special conflicts down from the berlin global dialogue. how does he see nigeria stepping up with the leadership role when it confronts a domino of crews on its doorstep? foreign powers positioning for an influence on the continent. the conflict into down and citizens leaving nigeria in the face of economic and security, fear. red, your in foreign minister use of took our thank you so much for joining us on

conflicts on from the berlin global dialogue. thank you for having me. let's beginning your region west africa. your government aims to reassert its influence after years of inward looking administrations. but you have this domino of cruise on your door step in this a whole new chair, molly and burkina, faso, all falling to military governments. it's not going to be an easy task, is it is not easy, but you have to look at the root causes of what we're facing today. the on constitutional changes of government. they are a direct result of the failure of the ease the head strategy, the direct result of the um uh the beginning dawn of the good that she's uh, raging in uh, in the, in libya they are, of course, a direct result of, uh, uh, trying to cobb, the migration and the fight against terrorism and the fact that nigeria

was not included in part in them all of these initiatives. and with those factors in mind, what does it mean for you in actual practice? because you're the big player in echo us. this is the economic community of west african states. it's been key to your influence in the region, and now you have new share, malia and burkina, faso not only withdrawing their memberships from echo oscar. they are also forming their own alliance. the alliance of so health states, your zone of interest, language shrinking, isn't it? no, it's not. we continue to engage new share, my leave or it's, you know, 5 so on other countries, we don't see them and leaving simply by, from noticing that they've left, there's a process of these countries i signature used to the echo us protocol. it's treaties of events. so it takes time in the meantime, we continue with full on diplomatic efforts. don't interrupt me. i know you,

i know your fund of doing that. the cheap because i'll interrupt you to a cheap so that's the big wood. so we continue, and you have groupings even within the f o us a community. you've got the manual revise you've got uh, we are part of the admin j t f for instance. so there's nothing wrong with having uh, such a groupings as being part of uh, of course. so it does not necessarily stand that it means that the standing conflicts with that with but ultimately, i mean, they don't seem as if they're interested in rejoining any time. so well, unfortunately, you'll see, some impossibility of that would be joining in the next 2 days. oh, you would do virginia to make these diplomatic efforts. we're making headway. it's a process. it's not an event when your president took over as chair of echo last last year he said the following, and i'd like to to quote him. he says he would not allow qu after qu in west africa, and that you must not sit in echo s as quote, toothless bull dogs. you know,

when we look at the situation, echo, echo has failed to make good on a threat to militarily intervene to stop the coo and new share. because uh, the concern is the is and then the list is no thank section. then you lifted the sanctions that were intended to pressure up was, is the community has as well since the become a toothless both the community. so the priority is the people and not the states, not the system of government. and we will make rational decisions just as we did the i, the threats of the use of force was one of several options. and that's a wait for minutes, but you didn't make good on it. so. so the question is, how can you put a view on your, my live, what on their chair and age, what was, was that what you were looking for now on this is all me him on the keels. i've seen the non was so that's why we did not. well, i'm asking you that because you, you have rational. i've to have the layout,

it evaluated it and decided to wasn't the best thing to do. and the diplomatic efforts to continue. you have these values though, as echo, as in just like we've, i will have them. we've been on the economic integration but also peace and democracy. i mean, you, you really pride yourself in this nation in nigeria as being a nice and my wish in those countries. how are you re presenting the inspection? sure. with that in room for how can you like to see me but because of constitutional democracy. okay. where did those values stand in the face of military cause a stand in the countries like an idea and other stuff continued to pour them is done with applause. and this is what we will continue to do. we are a democracy and it was is the communities of west african speech, the priority. the focus is on the community of people. so when not just simply to make goods on uh, what were the 4 nose we're not going to uh,

just inbox on some sort of uh, cottage and blood shed just so that you would say, oh yes, they've made good on their what i'd like to turn out to for an influence cuz you know, we have seen for an influence on the continent and following that's a hell cruise and burkina faso. molly new share that began in 2021. we've seen those countries reorient their security partnerships with french and us troops to now russia. and its proxy is russia is said to have the strategy of driving a wedge between echo us to extend its influence and under cut. the west is that concerning to you and how concerning it's very concerning insights. uh, external interference in general having uh for instance, unless scenarios or a private village companies as a whole or preaching in the region in this a how is, is

a great concern to us and this is why we continue to make a diploma efforts. it's been, it's been forward to fail when external forces try to come into f was to solve problems or to create spheres of interest. you can see what an idea was able to achieve in, in, in sarah new own. in my very, when it led up to them and restored peace to the elections and the continued under democratic administration. and this is precisely what we're also doing with the multinational joint task force that is succeeding in the fight against what? $400.00 of them in the lakes at the regents and what the national joint task force is. nigeria? it's new share. it's chad. it's kind of, we're going to get to the security issues in this conversation. but 1st, i just like to ask you because you were recently in russia. you said that you had

an interaction with foreign minister, laughed ralph, were you given any assurances? you said that you essentially reiterated the importance of unity with an echo us. what did the russians have to say? and they told us that uh, they are fully in support of peace in the region. i believe then. well, i'm a diploma. so no we wait to see what's your biggest fear we what is the rest of the content of the dougherty? i know poverty, i trust, but verify. so that's what i do. and what do you make of what you're saying? well, i'm watching and we continue. i diplomatic efforts spoken as the depth on that you, you have that one that as a generalist, as you have said that your position and i'm hearing it here as well as one of the

strategic autonomy and that you work with all countries. so how much pressure, though, are you under to choose the side windows on the end because it goes, is normally the 1st time you cetera we, we see countries splitting into blocks, right? the spitting into blocks over ukraine to some extent, there also, you know, splitting the splitting of the box over the, the word that we're seeing on the continent in sudan that's raging. how difficult is it for you to maintain strategic autonomy? it's always a challenge. governance as a whole, diplomacy being part of the international community. it's always difficult because as a student of international relations, i know that the international system isn't and i'm not kick one countries fight and fight for the national interests. and because of that it's, it's not a cable. so we're not expecting it to be that you know,

country expects that. as we mentioned security challenges a little bit earlier. and i'd like to hit on that now because there are still a tax spike groups like i us in, boca her rom and kidnapping for ransom is a huge problem in your country. for example, this year. and i just like to highlight a number of incidents gunman have it deducted at least 150 people in similar to states um 287 students in doing a 200 people in bar. no. how can citizens trust your government if you can't provide the very basic needs for 0 from new york? how many people get shots in new york? well, we're talking about nigeria. well, i wanted to, you know, i'm making the point that, you know, when you tried to highlights incidence, every net fixed on every single incident and highlights. and you've never even been to the idea or you just told me, you know, vince, i forgot. so this is stuff you're getting from the into that. so, you know,

it doesn't necessarily mean that that is all that is going on and they do it in your country. that united states, the, the, the, one of the, the, that the, the candidates of the, of the bill of the, the leading patches for the presidential elections was which was shot will start that to do. does that mean you highlight that and just right of the united states of america? i'm just asking you what the variety of like grants are. i'm just saying as and the here's some calling that's coming out of your, your country. and it says that the majority are of the opinion that you're not doing enough to curb kid not. you try to focus on, you can focus of on the negative. if you want and create a narrative, ought to be, i want to hear what you're doing. but focus on the positive, so we are a country of 220000000 people's. there will be

a acts of violence. there will be conflict with we remain a deliberative democracy with making rapid progress it on nation building in development. and majority of nigerians and live in peace. it's been said that extreme poverty, especially in rural areas, has made it easy for geology is to continue recruiting among frustrated. you spoke of her rom has been described still being extremely powerful. no, that's nonsense. a ton nonsense. okay. i don't know where you're getting that from . i know you get all your information. so you found out that you've never even been to. you've stamped out the gray homeless, the degree dates have you been able to get a copy of her else? you have sales or vote for her. i'm that still a fridge, but it does not mean they don't control any type of truth are ok. so to describe them as, as that is a certain nonsense. well, it's been described. i've heard you need to check other websites. this one that you

downloaded from is the wrong one. ok, well even if you're able to reduce violence in your country, how are you going to keep it out? let's look at the region more broadly. okay. kathleen poverty title is have securities of focus on the things that we're doing this and this just as you are doing on just the last year on food security analyst have said, for example, i want to look at one aspect of this because i also said that the crews and molly new share and be for q and a fast, so have largely led to an increase in violence like transnational terrorism. feel a little bit more organized friday due to the collapse of, uh, but how uh, how big of a lower ratio tackle act than lifetime phones. so we're having to do with that the g 5. so how oppression but a kinase and i 0 was notified of in comparison to what we will have part of which was a promo, but we lead success successfully resettle silverland reset to live here and which we're doing with a more international drug task force. that's an idea for you. i'd like to turn on

what they used to call us both busted. that was the idea and other potential flash point for your security. and then i'd like to turn to the potential flash point virginia and i. on this stage. we don't have any flash why? we're having a constructive conversation. okay. um, another potential flash point for your country. i'm on the thank you for not over interrupting me this time around. i think i flipped it go on fair enough. um, another potential flash point for and i'd like to talk about another potential flash point for your security is the conflict in sudan. but the former prime minister of dollar home duck says that he fears the civil war is quote, fertile ground for the spread of original terrorism. and do you share that fear, or i do not the only, but i share the fear of the repercussions on idea of

because we have about 8000000 as denise that of fine and i do an extraction so that we have our largest dashboard that is done which is why, you know, sometimes we wonder why, you know, there's, there's so much to inquire about migration and nice year ends living in euro for the price of the world. because this, that they've done is our largest dash 4. and it goes back in history because of the pilgrimage to mecca on foot force black. um so um, historically you have lots of nigerians in done so that's why we're getting involved. but unless other countries we took our time, we know the terrain. that's why it's always good to work with those know the environment from the jury. we did not want a situation where we get involved and then were deemed to be taking sides in the

conflict. was really once a resolution to the so where does your foreign policy put you on this conflict? because, you know, for those i got away. i, you have the conflict is, can you have an idea where junior, we went and warning them and if you had aid being blocked, if you are doing filing, your and civilian had been doing your searches properly. you would have seen that the only last week i had a meeting with these the news for him and been stuff on the margins of the united nations general assembly. so to, so how do you see nigeria as role then in brokering i mean, typically broker and new solutions, yours is media to be the role and using the platform of the african union. okay. because we have seen these diplomatic efforts, and we've seen diplomatic efforts on the part of the us and saudi arabia. we've also seen you said us. yeah, we've also seen regionally. thank you. god,

for example, we are right. you tell me all right there. i just had informed you that we have history. we have done, we understand it very well. in fact, lots of nigerians, us and any. so a lot of the news on the years. so that's why it's always good to work with those in the neighborhood. so are you making, are you making news here right now? because i just want to say one lines and make me make news one, add a list from your country has said the following. he says that no other country in africa has what it takes to fill this role to help build the prospects of a lasting piece and to down. you're going to be playing a greater role in the analysis. are you playing a greater role in brokering solutions? well, it's not news we've been saying. mm hm. so we can expect, how does copies? what do you mean by that? you're able to move? well, better yet please visit nigeria, visit africa for once. i want to get final. what do you make of the play though?

for international, you know, the international power dynamics cuz this is a complex conflict, right. and you know, there is talk of foreign involvement. the u. a. e is accused of backing the paramilitary rapids support forces. something that they deny around in egypt are arming the say, have russia is said to be playing both sides, the playing mercenaries? how much of an impact do you see this involvement having and how concerning is it to you or what impacts of yours foreign involvement horn and well that $44.00 and $4.00 and, but that's what conflict that's what's uh is that should be the distribution made it was, and that's why when a country like an idea, if you look at the major is approach, the reason why it combines a lot of respects and difference on the african continent is we on one second. the 1st of what i need was that, how much smaller than the nice, okay,

and it's clear that over the course of history, we do things shortly. i'll do actually with them all for the better interest of africa. that's why a lot of countries refers so much confidence when we come in, as mediators, it's happened going back to the sixties and seventies chad when we were having resolving the working on resolving the conflicts and chad. we had the chide conferences in con, northern parts of an idea, or you wouldn't know, but when you come to nigeria, i'll teach you that. i'm done with media to the in the past. and that is why nigeria, nigeria said, don't forget, the major is in the countries that has a new permanent seat in the african union, peace and security thoughts. there's a reason for that. i'd like to get

a final thought from you about the play for influence in africa a little bit later. but before we go and understand you have limited time. i must ask you about the state of the economy. your government vowed a reset of nigeria is and kind of me instead it's been described as the worst economic conditions and nigeria and 3 decades inflation, higher the growth vance, your boy talk, the national dentist sticks your workplace. and that's again his prior to starting with the said the old by the way, higher than 3 have the was your president has just and this actually happened the day he just, li, patients the all for yeah, on or last day for a patient, you know, do you really think nigerians have time to wait as they do yours are very efficient, very understanding and they see what the government is doing and how much progress we're making with metro economic default reforms until a company like a brand and scheme, a long trip to courage the currency exchange and so to undermine those

microeconomics performed by allowing for money a laundry through the flats which affected our exchange rates uninterrupted. so that became a major set back for the my curriculum. but we're addressing that we're coming most, but i see you apply to the good. see. so yeah. tell me, tell me a little bit more about the protests because i mean you have had nationwide protests, you had them in august. you also have them again this week, the ones in august right, 5th. but where is the fatal passion in nigeria it gets overblown. well, we got a deliberative deliver since our ap allow or a rental of some of their policies. exactly. oh will flows actually, and that's what i would like to ask you. and so i don't know why in ohio, but there is a prep. the hey, look, visit visit process and i do the whole roof is going to cave in how high is the risk thought the leave it or not shake people's foundation though, and not just on us. we are the most nascar for him with but you have protests in

your country the united states. same way that you have protest care in germany where you live. we also have protests in nigeria. it's a deliberative democracy. people are allowed to voice their opinions and they have freedom of association have of freedom to express themselves and it should not be different. yeah. so the way that they are the fuel especially don't lie just like a nation, therefore, or look down. every one very quick question. all right, then we have to go and i'd like to ask you about the future, the youth, because you've talked about the moxley in your country and how you have such a strong young population. but a lot of the use are, are saying and um are leaving the come towards the term there's, there's also like the commercials with jobs. i mine, i mean, send the said this one, but a lot of the use. well, it's estimated the more that more than way too many things where young people have

chosen where, where you're am over with websites or officials to, i know that you know which websites. that's your official stuff. which website events which website quoted by bbc, the 0 official statistics will be refined, bbc is major is over. so as the science about the alpha nigerians leaving about the number of new jersey. yeah. yeah. yeah. which is why we're having the reforms, which is why we, we are embarking on which we was should have been discussing what we've done in terms of food security. what we've done in terms of inclusive between the associated investment programs, the infrastructure develop that is taking place in nigeria, the special economic zones. this is what we should focus more on instead of just highlighting the negative foreign minister to the thank you so much for your time. we very much appreciate having you on conflicts on from the berlin global dialogue . thank you for the conversation. as always, you've been so wonderful with you again the

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