inspiring story about survival. the whole month to get the tennis. i was the only one what my music nazi germany watch now on youtube dw documentary nigeria is back said the new president. last year, when he took over the german shapes of the west, african original block eco, a. he flips to boost his country's influence. after years of inward looking administration, economic malaise and security challenges. i spoke about that with the countries for ministry use of to go in a special conflicts own from the berlin global dialogue. how does he see nigeria stepping up with the leadership role when it confronts a domino up cruise on its doorstep? foreign powers positioning for an influence on the continent, the conflict into down and citizens leaving nigeria in the face of economic and security here. right here in foreign minister use of took our thank you so much for

joining us on conflicts on from the berlin global dialogue. thank you for having me . let's begin and your region west africa. your government aims to reassert its influence after years of inward looking administrations. but you have this domino of cruise on your door step to in this a hell new share. molly and burkina faso all following to military governments. it's not going to be an easy task, is it is not easy, but you have to look at the root causes of what we're facing today. the, i'm constitutional changes of government. they are a direct result of the failure of the user head strategy. the direct result of the uh, the breaking down of the good that she's regina in the, in the, in libya they are, of course, a direct result of, uh, uh, trying to cobb the migration and the fight against terrorism. and

the fact that nigeria was not included in part in a more of these initiatives. and with those factors in mind, what does it mean for you in actual practice? because you're the big player in echo us. and this is the economic community of west african states. it's been key to your influence in the region, and now you have new share, malia and burkina, faso not only withdrawing their membership from echo aust, they're also forming their own alliance. the alliance of so health states your zone of into language shrinking, isn't it? no, it's not. we continue to engage new share my leave or it's, you know, 5 so on other countries, we don't see them. and the thing simply by pronouncing that they've left, there's a process of these countries i signature used to the echo us protocol. it's g t's of events. so it takes time in the meantime. we continue with full on diplomatic efforts. don't interrupt me. i know you,

i know you're fond of doing that, the cheap because i'll interrupt you to a cheap. so that's the big wood. so we continue and you have groupings even within the f plus a community. you've got the manual river you've got uh we are part of the admin j t f for instance. so there's nothing wrong with having such a groupings as being part of uh, of course. so it does not necessarily stand that it means that the standing conflicts with that, but ultimately, i mean, they don't seem as if they're interested in rejoining any time. so well, unfortunately, you'll see, some impossibility of that would be joining in the next 2 days. oh, you would do virginia to make these diplomatic efforts. we're making headway. it's a process, it's not an event. when your president took over as chair of ek last last year, he said the following, and i'd like to to quote him. he says he would not allow qu after qu in west africa, and that you must not sit in echo was as quote,

toothless bull dogs. and now when we look at the situation, echo echo has failed to make good on a threat to militarily intervene to stop the coo and new share. because uh, the concern is the is and then the list is no thank section. then you lifted the sanctions that were intended to pressure up was, is the permit. it has a loss of state become a toothless both the community. so the priority is the people and not the states, not the system of government. and we will make rational decisions just as we did the i, the threats of the use of force was one of several options. and that's a wait for minutes, but you didn't make good on it. so. so the question is, how can you put a view on the net care and age what it was was about what you were looking for now on because i said i'll meet him on the keels. i've said they're non was so that's why we did not. well, i'm asking you that because you, you have rational,

i've to have the layout, it evaluated it under decided it wasn't best the best thing to do. and the diplomatic efforts to continue. you have these values though, as echo, as in just like we highly have them. we mentioned the economic integration but also peace in democracy. i mean you, you really pride yourself in this nation and nigeria as being a nice and my wish in those countries. how are you re presenting less than that? i'm for sure. i'm sure with that in room for how can you like to see me but because of constitutional democracy. okay. where did those values stand in the face of military cause a stand in the countries like an idea and other stuff continue to avoid them is done with f o s. and this is what we will continue to do. we are a democracy and it was, is the communities of west african states, the priority the focus is on the community of people. so when not just simply to make goods on what foot for now as we're not going to just embark on some

sort of uh kind of legit just so that you would say, oh yes, they've made good on their what i'd like to turn out to for an influence, cuz you know, we have seen for an influence on the continent and i'm following this a hell cruise and burkina faso. molly new share that began in 2021. we've seen those countries reorient their security partnerships with french and us troops to now russia. and its proxy is russia is said to have the strategy of driving a wedge between echo us to extend its influence and under cut. the west is that concerning to you and how concerning it's very concerning insights. uh, external interference in general having uh for instance, unless scenarios or a private village companies as a whole or preaching in the region in this a how is, is

a great concern to us and this is why we continue to make different magic efforts. it's been, it's been proven to fail when external forces tried to come into f was to solve problems or to create spheres of influence. you can see what an idea was able to achieve in, in, in sarah new own, in liberia, when it led up to a month and restore the piece to the elections and the continued under democratic administration. and this is precisely what we're also doing with the multinational joint task force that is succeeding and the fight against vote for her. i'm in the lake said the regional culture national joint task force is nigeria . it's new share. it's chad. it's kind of, we're going to get to the security issues in this conversation. but 1st i'd just like to ask you because you were recently in russia. you said that you had an

interaction with 4 minister laughed ralph, were you given any assurances? you said that you essentially reiterated the importance of unity with an echo us. what did the russians have to say? and they told us that they are fully in support of peace in the region. i believe then. well, i'm a diploma. so no we wait to see what's your biggest fear we, what is when it rushes right on the continent. but don't worry, i know poverty, i trust, but verify. so that's what i do. and what do you make of what you're saying? well, i'm watching and we continue our diplomatic efforts spoken as a diplomat. you, you have that one that as a journalist, as you have said,

that your position and i'm hearing it here as well as one of strategic autonomy and that you work with all countries. so how much pressure, though, are you under to choose aside, we're not under any credits because is normally the 1st time you cetera we, we see countries splitting into blocks, right? the spitting into blocks over ukraine to some extent, they're also, you know, splitting the splitting of the box over the, the war that we're seeing on the continent in sudan that's raging. how difficult is it for you to maintain strategic autonomy? it's always a challenge. governance as a whole, diplomacy being part of the international community. it's always difficult because as a student of international relations, i know that the international system isn't and i'm not kick one countries fight and fight for the national interests. and because of that it's, it's not a cable. so we're not expecting it to be that, you know,

country expects that. we mentioned security challenges a little bit earlier and i'd like to hit on that now because there are still attacks by groups like i us in, boca her rom and kidnapping for ransom is a huge problem in your country. for example, this year. and i just like to highlight a number of incidents gunman have a duct at at least 150 people in support of the state. um 287 students in doing a 200 people in bore know how can citizens trust your government if you can't provide the very basic needs for 0 from new york? how many people get shot to new york? well, we're talking about nigeria. well, i wanted to, you know, i'm making the point that, you know, when you try to highlights incidence, every net fixed on every single incident and highlights. and you've never even been to the idea or you just told me, you know, if it's africa, so this is stuff you're getting from the into that. so, you know,

it doesn't necessarily mean that, that is all that is going on and they do it in your country. that united states, the, the, the, one of the, the, the, the, the, the, the candidates of the, of the bill of the, the leading patches for the presidential elections was which was struct. will start that to do. does that mean you highlight that and just right of the united states of america? i'm just asking you what the variety of library ends are. i'm just saying as and the here's some calling that's coming out of your, your country. and it says that the majority are of the opinion that you're not doing enough to curb kid not view credit for christmas. one, you can focus of on the negative if you want and create a narrative, ought to be. i want to hear what you're doing. but focus on the positive, so we are a country of 220000000 people's. there will be

a acts of violence. there will be conflict. what would remain a deliberative democracy with making rapid progress it on nation building in development. and majority of nigerians live in peace. it's been said that extreme poverty, especially in rural areas, has made it easy for g is to continue recruiting among frustrated. you spoke a rom has been described, the still being extremely powerful. no, that's nonsense. i tell nonsense. okay, i don't know where you're getting that from. i know you get all your information. so you found out that you've never even been to. you've jumped out the grey homeless, the degree dates have you been able to get a copy of her else? you have sales or both for her. i'm that still a fridge, but it does not mean they don't control any type of truth. ok, so to describe them as, as that is also nonsense. well, it's been described by very true. you need to check other websites. this one that

you downloaded from is the wrong one. ok, well even if you're able to reduce violence in your country, how are you going to keep it out? let's look at the region more broadly. ok, how clean poverty title is? have securities, focus on the things that we're doing this and this just as you are doing well, just let me finish with ashley on food security. analyst have said, for example, i want to look at one aspect of this because i also said that the crews and molly new share and be for q and a fast to have largely led to an increase in violence like transnational tires on zillow reorganized, friday. due to the collapse of, uh, but how uh, how big of a lower ratio tackle act than lifetime headphones. so we're having to do with it the g 5. so how oppression but a kinase and i 0 is not a part of in comparison to what we will have part of which was a promo, but we lead success successfully reset to serial and we settled live here and which we're doing with the multinational drug castles,

that's an idea for you. i'd like to turn on what they used to call us both bus. that's that was the idea. so another potential flash point for your security and i'd like to turn to the potential flash point between you and i. on this stage we don't have any flash why? we're having a constructive conversation. okay. but another potential flash point for your country. i'm on the thank you for not over interrupting me this time around. i think i flipped it's going. ringback fair enough, um, another potential flash point for and i'd like to talk about another potential flash point for your security is the conflict in sudan. but the former prime minister of dollar home duck says that he fears the civil war is quote, fertile ground for the spread of original terrorism. and do you share that fear? so i do not the only but i share the fear of the repercussions when i do it because we have about 8000000

sudanese that are fine and i do an extraction. so this, we have our largest dashboard that is done, which is why, you know, sometimes we wonder why, you know, there's, there's so much to inquire about migration. and nigerians, you living in your, for other parts of the world because this that they've done is all i just dash for and it goes back in history because of the pilgrimage to mecca and for it was black. um, so historically you have lots of nigerians in done so that's why we're getting involved. but unlike other countries we took our time we know the terrain. that's why it's always good to work with those know the environment and on the jury. we do not want

a situation where we get involved and then would deem to be taking sides in the conference was really once a resolution to the so where does your foreign policy put you on this conflict? because it, you know, for those i got to where i, you have the complex is, can you have an idea where junior, we live and running from. and if you have a being block, if you're doing filing your and civilian has been doing your searches from police, you would have seen that uh, on the last week i had a meeting with these, the news for him and been stuff on the margins of the united nations general assembly, so to so how do you see nigeria as role then in brokering me typically brokerage solutions, yours is media to be the role and using the platform of the african union. okay. because we have seen these diplomatic efforts, and we've seen diplomatic efforts on the part of the us and saudi arabia. we've also seen you said us. yeah, we've also seen regionally. thank you. god,

for example, we are right. you tell me all right there. i just said, inform you that we have history, we have done, we understand it very well. in fact, lots of nigerians, us and denise or let us the news on the years. so that's why it's always good to work with those in the neighborhood. so are you making, are you making news here right now? because i just want to say one mind to make me making use one, add a list from your country has said the following. he says that no other country in africa has what it takes to fill this role to help build the prospects of a lasting piece into down. you're going to be playing a greater role on the analysis. are you playing a greater role and brokering the solutions as well as the news we've been saying is mm hm. so we can expect the, how does the copies of what the materials are more well, better yet, please visit my dear visit africa for once. i want to get final.

what do you make of the play though, for international, you know, the international power dynamics, cuz this is a complex conflict, right? you know, there is talk a for an involvement. the u. a. e is accused of backing the paramilitary rapids support forces. something that they deny around in egypt are arming the say. have russia is said to be playing both sides to playing mercenaries? how much of an impact do you see this involvement having then how concerning is it to you or what impacts of yours foreign involvement torn and well therefore forward for an invalid. that's what conflict. that's what is that should be to distribution . maybe it was, and that's why when a country like an idea, if you look at the major is approach, the reason why it combines a lot of respects and difference on the african continent is we, i'm on fact name. uh, 1st of all i need was that how much smaller than the nice,

okay, and it's clear that's over the course of history. we do things shortly. i'll do actually with them all for the better and 1st of africa, that's why a lot of countries refers so much confidence when we come in, as mediators, it's happened going back to the sixties and seventies chad when we were having resolving the working on resolving the conflicts and chad, we had the chide conferences, inc ton northern parts of an idea, right? you wouldn't know, but when you come to nigeria, i'll teach you that was done with mediated there in the past. and that is why nigeria major said, don't forget, the major is in the countries that has a new permanent seats in the african union. peace and security. thoughts is a reason for that. i'd like to get

a final thought from you about the play for influence in africa a little bit later. but before we go and understand you have limited time. i must ask you about the state of the economy. your government vowed a reset of nigeria is and kind of me instead it's been described as the worst economic conditions and nigeria and 3 decades inflation, higher the growth vance, your boy towards the national dentist, 6 your awards lation. and that's again, as prior to starting with the said the old, by the way, higher than 3 have the was not your president has just and this actually happened the day he just li patients the or for yeah, once or last, the 1st patient, you know, do you really think nigerians have time to wait, as they do yours are very efficient, very understanding and they see what the government is doing and how much progress we're making without micro economical fault reforms. until a company like a band and came a long trip to courage, the currency exchange. and so to undermine those micro economic performance by

allowing for money a laundry to the plots which affected our exchange rate i'm into. and so that became a major set up for the my curriculum, what we're addressing that we're covering most, but i see you apply to the good. see. so yeah, tell me, tell me a little bit more about the protests because i mean you have had nationwide protests, you had them in august. you also have them again this week, the ones in august, i did that. where, where is the fatal patch in nigeria? it gets overblown. well, we got a deliberative defense. our ap allow or a rustle of some of their policies. exactly. well we'll pull. exactly, and that's what i would like to ask you. and so i don't know why in ohio, but there is a prep. the hey, look, visit visit for just an idea of the whole roof is going to cave in how high is the risk thought and the leave it or not shake people's foundation though and not just on us. we are the more glass coffee room way,

but you have protests in your country the united states. same way that you have protest care in germany where you live. we also have protests in nigeria. it's a deliberative democracy. people are allowed to voice their opinions and they have freedom of association. they have the freedom to express themselves and it should not be different. yeah. so the way that the fuel, especially don't lie just like a nation, therefore, or look down. every one very quick question. all right, then we have to go and i'd like to ask you about the future, the youth, because you've talked about the moxley in your country and how you have such a strong young population. but a lot of the youth are, are saying and are leaving the come towards the term. there's. there's also like commercials with jobs, i might not mean send the said this one, but a lot of the use. well, it's estimated the more that more the reason why things where you have your people

have chosen where, where's your am over with websites or officials to i know that you know which websites, that's your official stuff. which website events which website quoted by bbc, the 0 official statistics will be refined, bbc is major is over. so as the science about the firm niger and sleeping about the number of new jersey. yeah. yeah, yeah. which is why we're having the reforms, which is why we, we are embarking on which we was should have been discussing what we've done in terms of what security, what we've done in terms of inclusive between the associated investment programs, the infrastructure develop that is taking place in my dear special economic zones, this is what we should focus more on instead of just highlighting the negative foreign minister to the thank you so much for your time. we very much appreciate having you on conflicts on from the berlin global dialogue. thank you for the conversation as always, you've been so wonderful with you again the,

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