to the, as the warranty ukraine brings ever more death and destruction. key european officials fair moscow is now preparing for the conflict with the west. i guess this week goes along with that view, these co for roses type of as sony as intelligence service. but he still believes russia can lose or task in the rest should be to make sure that the russia comes out of this conflict as a beacon polar. so how united is the west, and how vital is it that ukraine gets the weapons? it's one proper rose, you welcome to comfort zone, the john and your view. how long does the west have before it might or

might have to fight to war with russia? the of course i have to say that we don't really truck at the development. see the best the question is the answer to that question is it should be as long because why shaw is defeated. i don't know. and i think this is a mission which is absolutely possible to conduct you say that, but in your intelligence reports in february you said that a military confrontation with the west, russia was preparing for that. and that could happen within 10 years. but there are other people, other officials in europe who sure thing that timeline in july, the chief of the general staff of the british army general rony, woke of one, but they throw had 3 to 5 years to prepare for war with what he called them

access about people, that's russia, china, north korea. and if we're on uh, do you agree with that? oh, okay. so for me to understand the question, but the point is that the, the time line when the time the space of what we have on our disposal before a potential conflict with russia. the 1st uh, there are several factors now in the pipeline. low cost. first, we have to make sure that this potential event doesn't happen at the corner. so the 1st be placed on is a home with dos, the contract, the new crane, and that really determine the future bass. yeah. or for russia, we use the rest. so in, in this, this issue, if we have a situation after the, let's say ukraine rush of war,

we had to rush out images from that. as a big tori is very self confident power. it really made court calculations based on the new situation. then our task being the best should be to make sure that russia comes out of this conflict as a week and polar which or who might be then as ordering some of the internal programs, which would probably the run in the least though he's a russian defeat. in end up going to die, fink pointed with not your wife russian defeat. that the 2nd question is how long it takes to wash and store it, close it, do it or generate forces. we have to keep in mind that and i would like to talk about the notion of the constitution. i would like to name the issue, maybe russian force generation or russian forces development may have to keep in

mind that there are some all forces today are set about 100000 mind bigger than it was before the before launching the launch gave invasion. and that this is the capability to spot the rush of deeps generating forces to generate additional manpower. uh, wanting it to be gotta be got programs to meet that unit, i think. but good until they are on track with that. and or of course, i'm a nation production and equipment to then production with the order refurbishment and production with the oceans. also, we know you know what, the actual, the ones that come on and deal with some of those issues in, in detail. but this month's newspaper reports you're talking about, russia needs to be weaker if, if the west is to avoid a boy much weak from its will with ukraine. this month's newspaper report say russia had already received more than 200 ballistic missiles from iran at

a port on the s b and c. and there was a risk of it more would be provided if that was massage, keep coming from iran and from other members of that so called access to about people. russia isn't going to emerge week a is coming much, much stronger, isn't that if this trend continues to the russian. so kind of to trying to boost up . it's me to 30 strength that and of course, based on that means that his drink, they are conducting graduation and wolf a be the ukraine. so all the task is to make sure that the creation that aisha is using a beneficial but the mom buddies beneficial on the 4 point print. it is also i would assess that the rush. i cannot keep this position rate up for coming. yes and yes. so we have to make sure that the ukrainians have the power to at 330 i

sions as as much as possible. and the question is, how do we know it's a deal with that? why sion, the intention bought resolve the ukraine and reset me read the rest again. the main task. what about the after the sort of, before it comes to any but page, i'm going to take the dream, the nato and russia is to make sure that, that you create an image as a, as a, as a big let's say, as being part of this, this quantity people started, but it doesn't look like that at the moment. does it? it doesn't look like it's winning, it's, it's, it's suffering steady loss is on the east and from nevermind the fact that it's advances and forces into the cossack region inside russia. but it's not doing well on the eastern front of toilers. it is a, i think situation has been difficult, but i wouldn't say that the russians are, let's say, doing great to item what the why she was probably a lot of would like to do is to treat the crating on part as much as possible.

possibly. so that being up front would collapse, but i don't see that happening any time. sure. so and i'm not sure either. you have to rush, i was have a clear big story strategy also. i'm not sure they have that very, very clearly defined. they have at the end of public rhetorics of you know, what they want the looked at, based on what they say. but in the reality, it's something they kind of what the chief of all i would say. do you think come to suppose it was a wall with the west? uh, i think he respects and then they thought, but this also again, we have to make sure that this respect continues over the coming years and then it comes to all apart then. how? well, or be prepared, how would our our plans for the eastern plank? uh so your starting, he'd like to have

a boy if he can get away with it. is that too? if he has the feeling that he gets away and nothing happens to him, he comes out clean and then it might run into the calculations. but i would say if i come back to ukraine, rush us advice, and then let's say even if it comes to the situation where there will be negotiations between the russia and maybe ukrainians. but i want to assess that that i shall scroll, likely, likely only would like to talk to the americans only over the heads of your parents . and they would also like to discuss the not donio crane, but also to draw the secuity date, the secuity architecture. so what they call in but be used to push nato capabilities and activities as far as possible from the ocean border and based and create a new situation on the ground. a based on that. and then again,

calculate for what, from the moment that this type of discussion all leslie is very dangerous if it comes to the agenda. okay, great. oh, oh, you talked about the need for, for nato to up its game. how much space do you have in the lives at the moment i ask, because 2 years ago, your former prime minister kind of carlos was highly critical of nato's plans to defend the baltic states. she said they would have resulted in a stony, i think, wiped off the map, has made so up to its game where it's planning is concerned. how does it, how does it come up with a upon like value in the 1st place? and i don't know how it came up with a plan like this, but i have the feeling that the was pretty helpless, wasn't it? then it was definitely not beneficial for us. but i would say, as far as i know, the plans have changed in that regard. the and, but it's a constant book. now of course,

a new stop discussion in may talk between nato allies or different allies of different view points, which is the oldest under. but it's a beauty of that last, but i think we are on the right track. most of the companies on just on the trip, but that i suppose is also meet on long term. and there is a general understanding that we have to be prepared or we have to be prepared to protect those of will defend dollars. so what about the troops that kind of call us one to the nato choose between 20 and 25000 to be based in estonia, as that happened when it happened. and the that's probably the question more for chief of defense. how many troops are needed here? and well, she went public and saying that it is, it hadn't happened and she needed it to happen. i'm the last reports we have had saying that it hasn't happened. so i started putting the question to you. absolutely. because i think the question here is about the what you want. it's all

designated for, let's say a reinforcement, the re, again, concrete numbers are more in the defense force us the domain. probably the question is, how many troops we have for what the pro, it's in the piece time, which must be also manage oven. both in training get as an economically and what is probably important for us is that the we have already made the troops designate that for potential for along the reinforcements, which then it would be launched in after a proper early warning that he's given. so it was here on, so do you have enough troops or not at the moment to repel, to repel a russian advance? should that be one? i think we, with the view up, we would give up, would fight the russians and then hopefully reinstall reinforcements with the right rapidly according to the plants. and do you have

a cost on guarantee that more than 30 countries, the members of nato will fight side by side with you if you're attacked. uh, i'm pretty confident in that, but again, the small print is it, it's not a not to go 5. yeah, but the it, so the question is ultimate though is, depends, splines, which are constantly developed and it's a ongoing, but that's what is we've been talking about a possible will with russia, but in the sense it's already begun. how soon to talk. if you can talk to me a little bit about the sabotage operations that have the kremlin fingerprints on them, not just getting started here, but elsewhere in europe. is this, is this a growing trend? well, it is a total of what the national finks it can use against the best in order to disrupt us to bring tension in dollars. so saw this uh, rochelle probably hopes that to be relying on the article 5 would be disagreement

isn't this, don't okay. this we have more than 15 people arrested over the last a year in the connection with the russians. i'm a product. can you this it seems that they saw perfectly these conduct that trout, the europe i'm in the bottom of awesome. it's at the it is something serious of a these, these attacks. i would say if i open the door and them case, then they live in the battery slit a lot. and we have the incidence of vandalism mutual. and let's say more of this harmless, the opposite awesome though, the question is, of course, the, let's say the how it develops. it has been, it has escalate that they hold is on things that go over the last year. so if this, the revere him of the stabilizing um your country, or just keeping you on your toes or making people know of us,

what the main thing or a mention, it also tries to undermine probably on the mind, to support of the trip up to your grade yeah, if you stipulate disrupt us, it is here to tell you our resource so, so we would pay more attention and though it was internal issues and trying to bypass our attention from the support the to do the upgrade. and let's talk about ukraine's urgent request to use long range west of messiahs on targets in russia. your president, our carriers port school and on the nato countries that have withheld use of a long range missiles for you, correct? because of fears of escalating, the crisis was the right to do that. you said it was pure self deception and reflected indecision and fear which played into russian hands. if your president is right to nato is becoming and decisive, i'm fearful,

the nato is no longer fit for purpose. is it? when i have to aggravate me, is my president in this code and perfect. you know some many. if you're looking to based on it, there are some 7 other that's a new federal dimes. what that i show has sometimes successfully installed in the head of best and us so the 1st to the 1st battle dying. but that i shall see all trying to communicate is that the conflict should happen only on the 1030 of the victim. and the address or for whatever reason should be remain on punched. this is the 1st time in the military history. and the 2nd idea of what the issue is that trying to get it to communicate over to take over play. and to us, is that the right? it is impossible for russia to roles. again, it's not correct the right size, last 7 of or so the throat, the they use the result. nobody have up as

a made. so i'm not persuaded them that all the other members are showing in his woods in decision and fear of a rush on. so i'll try and do the install this video. so it is, of course, a task for us, for the eastern plank gone through is to keep explaining this to all the rest the allies. and i think down the standing is also need to be changing a already and also in the, in more or less than the concerts. but the, i agree it has, let's say taken too long time. uh, vote for this change. but it is an ongoing process, isn't it? because your president said, i hear several countries expressing a dissolved for a quick diplomatic solution and compromise with russia. and there's a spreading hope that resetting relations with booting russia is possible or even inevitable. you don't believe that do you of my life. i been, i am convinced that the russian currently she must be defeated strategically.

because if you at this point then is partially successful in these objectives, to be assessed, that he would continue and print it, but so they've already knew crane would be not over and meet me. and if you have a pros and conflict that at some point or something, the something they like so, and they have to also understand that the russians are, according to themselves. they are in the war already with the collective, the best in their own understanding. so i don't see the many options because if you talk about the longer term going to go as an ocean, then the make sure that your brain ends being at that again, i think it this store, but actually if the ukrainians don't get the weapons, they need or permission to use the ones they have inside russia. will it be

impossible for them to when? i think that one weapon system that i'll talk, i'm simple example. it's a, that's a long range human size. yes, i mean it has to be, it has become very symbolic. at this point. it looks at this rep on system alone doesn't sort of the conflict, the adult. but the question is, it's about them in a 40 to go to the board or the or understanding from russian side the that they are able to detour us and based on on their thoughts. luckily they will create as having devin opening their own weapons, which seems to be sometimes more patient. and then i look at what happens in russia, but we've had a ukrainian politician on this program just a week ago saying the west has given us enough weapons to fight, but not enough to win. that's the view coming out of ukraine at the moment. don't

you see where they're coming from? it is hard to argue with this that it is on a threshold boyfriend. so the at the, in the side with more bills and more resource, really been. there's a question about pro, for that position rate for both sides. ukraine needs additional good, both of those and the level nation to make that happen. august the so again, we shouldn't be somehow we shouldn't. the restore email was set ups in the to board thing you'll create with any type of weapon. so i'm a nation. they need and i agree that the it has taken to a long time, but it's also the addition. so they'll be made. but again, i don't see that the cost is last pulled by at this point, but there are, there are divisions emerging in europe among nature. we have the check president

present. bravo saying ukraine needed to be realistic. the most probable outcome of the war would be that russia would hold on to some of the territories. it's capture at least temporary. that's pretty defeat just isn't the fact idea. takes root nato . that's not going to be good to ukraine. is it a little our talking point is that you create and can still be in this. so the discussions do we have the seems to be or in contrast to nato countries. russia has been busy transforming it's economy into a war economy. it's turning out there are munition and advanced weaponry, some of which is not so far, appearing on the battlefield. does that not suggest to you that russia is preparing for a much bigger conflict? the, let's say that about me see that all the resources. so for rush, i'm on for so, so the russian federation imprints it but boeing good. what's your crate?

so if you look at the situation currently along all at borders, there is not much the russian military power available for the from, from the ocean side. so that's, that's the goal with no. so the question is if the, if it takes for restaurants so wrong and it's sold, paying for it to try and do the feet, feel great. and then the question is, how would it, how would that i shot before? i'm against the risk, which is much more advanced. i'm not sure that would go on the conflict, but the jump warranty would go out in the ocean. the favor. of course, we have to make sure that the know a site, the proper resources, clients, equipment available, nomination stokes audit the, let's say needed 11. i would say breast is, of course, if the war stops in the rush, although act the face of the conflict,

the stop so we can buy the light or it least would be, it needs to be very painful. what full russian economy to come out of this war economy the moment that would be very interesting to, to watch. so they would keep producing. and from that point, the lawn, if we take away the, please show me show, having you know, cream from that point on that, that's a growth or progression. we thought a, these then speeding up, i would say, ukraine's president zalinski has taken his, but he causes victory plan through washington to run it past the americans. he said it's a plan to strengthen ukraine and force of russia to the negotiating table. is ukraine able to do that in your view for russia to the negotiating table? i haven't seen the victoria plan again. currently, i do not see any reason from russian side when i go shaped anything sinks

again the, let's say the best thing big list of best invites further escalation from device on site is not just perceived. it is weak and it says it is weight based on division in the way i think we are actually a much stronger if we would be more of a link to let's say play out this strength. and again, the other point is that, well what, what is, what are you waiting for? what's, what's the west waiting for the well, uh, i mean i've been enough cookies and enough warnings. we are pushing the rest and allies to and not only we ordered diamonds and daily daily book, and the, this is the basis evasion. but again, i, i see some movement. so i'm not that pessimistic. and all that on the days in a book they have to point to one of the points in the presidency landscapes.

victory plan is that he wants further security guarantees. so will they be worth the paper? the risk not even if he gets them. the budapest memorandum, which was suppose to uh, secure uh, ukraine's future when he gave up it's nuclear weapons in 1994 hasn't done so well for them as it, particularly since it was uh guaranteed both by russia and america. so the visa board to bring them faster to data, which would be the proper notice if you were to go on the malware view is, is your crime going on when not at the moment? does it nothing less? the west gets its act together and gives it the weapons. is it? so going to with noble uh we have to think joe, what, what is it duration shop? what it the country in europe and the inability of russia. let's say bins. and the said in this case, induct basically with that, what would be story us self confident, the russia,

which would the make photo long calculations based on the new situation, we would have a huge pro. well, for if we choose problem, ukraine, if let's say if i shop would pay cool with a country and $1.00 for one other. and we would have a situation where the ukraine of resources would it would be totally against of us by the russians. about what keeps you awake at night. well then we are looking day and night to, let's say prevent that from happening. how long as well for us this is existing show the issue we understand so they cannot be tired of tweak that. all right, couple of really soon. it's good to have you on the program. thank you very much for being with us. thank you very much for having. the

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