is the double play, that's the nanda foundation, one box to the next find out about me being a story in some language, reliable news for migraines. wherever they may be. as the warning ukraine brings up a more definite destruction. key european officials, fer moscow is now preparing for conflict with the west. i guess this week goes along with that view these co rosen types of his stony as intelligence service. but he still believes prussia can lose our task in the best to be, to make sure that russia comes out of this conflict as a weekend. the polar. so how united is the west, and how vital is it that ukraine gets the weapons? it's one proper. rose, you welcome to come because you haven't and you view,

how long does the west have before it might or might have to fight a war with russia? of course i have to say that we don't really truck at the developments in the best . the question is, the answer to that question is, it should be as long as i shall, is defeated. i don't know. and i think this is a mission which is opposite, weekly, possible, the conduct as you say, that. but in your intelligence reports in february, you said that a military confrontation with the west, russia was preparing for that. and that could happen within 10 years. but there are other people, other officials in europe who shouldn't make that timeline. in july, the chief of the general staff of the british army general roney woke of one,

but they throw had 3 to 5 years to prepare for war with what he called them, access about people. that's russia, china, north korea, and it were on uh, do you agree with that? oh okay, so uh for me to understand the question, but the point is that um the time line when the time the space, what we have uh on our disposal before a potential conflict with the rush on the 1st uh there are several factors now in the pipeline low cost 1st we have to make sure that this potential event doesn't happen in order. so the 1st be placed on is a home with dos, the contract, the new crane, and that really determine the future bass. yeah. or for russia, we use the risk. so in, in this, this issue, if we have

a situation after the, let's say ukraine rush of war, we had to rush out images from that. as a big, tory is very self confident power. it really made court calculations based on the new situation. then our task in the rest should be to make sure that russia comes out of this conflict as a beacon polar which or who might be then a. so i was ordering some of the internal programs which would probably run into if there is a russian defeat in, in the content and dicing, pointed with lots of life russian defeat. the 2nd question is how long it takes. i can store it close to do it or generate a force as we have to keep in mind that. and i would like to talk about the notion reconstitution. i would like to name the issue,

maybe russian forced generation or russian forces development may have to keep in mind that there are some all forces today are 700000 mind bigger than it was before the before launching the large scale invasion. and that this is the capability to spot the shock deeps generating forces to generate additional manpower. uh, wanting it to be gotta be got programs to meet the general, i think, but good until they are on track with that. and or of course, i'm a nation production and agreement to production with the order refurbishment the production with the ocean. so, so we know, you know, what's actually up. i want to come on and deal with some of those issues in, in detail. but this month's newspaper reports you're talking about, russia needs to be weaker if, if the west is to avoid a boy much weak from its will with ukraine. but this month's newspaper report say

russia had already received more than 200 ballistic missiles from iran at a port on the s b and c. and there was a risk of it more would be provided if there was massage, keep coming from iran and from other members of that so called access to about people. russia isn't going to emerge. we kids come a much, much stronger, isn't that if this trend continues to, of the russians are corrupted, trying to boost up its meaning 30 strength and of course, based on that means that his drink, they are conducting graduation on wolf, it'd be the, the crane. so all the task is to make sure that the creation that aisha is easy, not beneficial, but the mom buddies beneficial on the 4 point to print it is also i would assess that the rush. i cannot keep this position rate up for coming. yes and

yes, so we have to make sure that the ukrainians have the power to at 3 the russians as, as much as possible. and the question is, how do we know it's a deals with that? why sion, the intention bought and resolve the ukraine end result, me read the best again. the main task while i bought the after the sort of before it comes to any. but they've got to take the dream, the nato and russia, is to make sure that, that ukraine images as, as that as a big let's say, as being part of this is going to the biggest august. but it doesn't look like that at the moment. does it, it doesn't look like it's winning, it's, it's, it's suffering steady loss is on the east and from never mind the fact that it's advances and forces into the caustic region inside russia. but it's not doing well on the eastern front of toilers. it is a, i think situation has been difficult, but i wouldn't say that the russians are, let's say,

doing great the item. what the questions probably a lot would like to do is to treat the crating apart as much as possible. possibly. so don't bring up front would collapse, but i don't see that happening any time. sure. so and i'm not sure either. you have to rush, i was have a clear victory strategy also. and i'm not sure they have that very, very clearly defined. they have at the end, the public rhetorics of, you know, what they want the looked at, based on what they say. but in the reality, it's something they kind of what the chief of all i would say. do you think come to suppose it was a wall with the west? uh, i think he respects that and they thought, but this also again, we have to make sure that this respect continues over the coming years and then it comes to all apart. then. how are we prepared?

how would our, our plans for the eastern plank? uh sir, you're sharing. he'd like to have a boy. if he can get away with it. is that tool. if he has the feeling that she gets away and nothing happens to him, he comes out clean the damage to might run into the calculations. but i would say if i come back to ukraine, rush us advice, and then let's say, even if it comes to the situation where there wouldn't be negotiations between the russia and maybe ukraine, it's, but i want to assess that that i shall screw likely the likely only would like to talk to the americans only over the heads of your opinions. and they would also like to discuss the not donio crane, but also the brothers acute it that the ups that go with the architecture. so what they call in but be used to push nato capabilities and activities as far as possible from the ocean boulder and based and create a new situation on the ground. a based on that. and then again,

calculate for what the from that moment and this type of discussion. all leslie is very dangerous if it comes to the agenda. okay, great. oh, oh, you talked about the need for, for nato to up its game. how much faith do you have in the lives of the moment i ask because 2 years ago, your former prime minister kind of carlos was highly critical of nato's plans to defend the baltic states. she said they would have resulted in a stony, i think, wiped off the map and has made so up to its game where it's planning is concerned. how does it, how does it come up with a upon like value in the 1st place? and i don't know how it came up with a plan like this, but i have the feeling that the was pretty helpless, wasn't it? then it was definitely not beneficial for us. but i would say, as far as i know, the plans have changed in that regard. the and, but it's

a constant book. now of course, these type of discussion in may talk between nato allies or different allies of different view points, which is the oldest under. but it's a beauty of that last, but i think we are on the right track. most of the accomplish on just on the trip, but that i suppose is also meet on long term. and there is a general understanding that we have to be prepared or we have to be prepared to protect those of will defend dollars. so what about the troops that kind of call us one to the nato troops between 20 and 25000 to be based in estonia, as that happened when it happened. and the that's part of the question, more for chief of defense, how many troops are needed here? and she went public saying that it is, it hasn't happened and she needed it to happen. i'm the last reports we have had saying that it hasn't happened. so the question to you?

absolutely, because i think the question here is about the what you want. it's all designated for, let's say a reinforcement, the re, again, concrete numbers or more in the defense versus a domain. but over the question is, how many totes you have for what the pro, it's in the piece time, which must be also manage. evan, both in training get as an economically and what is probably important for us is that the we have already made. the troops designate that for potential for along the reinforcements reached. and it would be launched in after appropriate or early warning that he's given. so we'll say on, so do you have enough troops or not at the moment to repel, to repel a russian advance? should that be one? i think we would view up, but we would give a good fight. but the russians, and then hopefully readings reinforcements with the right rapidly,

according to the plants. and do you have a cost on guarantee that move in so that the countries, the members of nato will fight side by side with you if you are attacked. uh, i'm pretty confident in that, but again, the small print is it, it's not even article 5. yeah, but the, it, so the question is alternate the defense plants, which are going to develop and it's a ongoing, but that's all it is. or we've been talking about a possible will with russia, but in the sense it's already begun. how soon to talk, if you can talk to me a little bit about the sabotage operations that have the kremlin fingerprints on them. not just getting started here, but elsewhere in europe is this, is this a growing trend? well, it is a total of what the national fix it can use against invest in order to disrupt us, to bring tension in dollars. so saw this uh,

the rush out profile really helps to between relying on the all the good 5 with these activities in this don't ok this we have more than 15 people arrested over the last year in the connection with the russian. someone thought i'd give me this, it seems that this, all of those activities conduct that throughout the europe in the bottom of us on, etc. it is something serious of a these, these attacks. i would say if i open the door and them case, then the 11 the batteries with a lot we have the incidence of vandalism mutual and let's say more of this harmless the opt awesome though, the question is, of course the, let's say the how it develops it has been, it has escalate that they hold is on things that go over the last year. so if this, the revere him of destabilizing um your country,

or just keeping you on your toes or making people know of us what the main, it's a mention. it also tries to undermine probably on the mind to support of the 2 parts to your grade. yeah. if you stipulate disrupt us, it is here to tell you our resource so, so we would pay more attention and though it was internal issues and trying to bypass our attention from the support the to do the upgrade. and let's talk about ukraine's urgent request to use long range west of messiahs on targets in russia. your president, our carriers port school and on the nato countries that have withheld use of the long range missiles for your credit. because of fears of escalating, the crisis was the right to do that. you said it was pure self deception and reflected indecision and fear which played into russian hands. if your president is

right to nato is becoming and decisive and fearful, the nato is no longer fit for purpose. is it? when i have to create me is my president know in this code in perfect, you know, some many if you're looking to based on it, there are some 7 other that's a new federal time slot that i show has sometimes successfully installed in the hands of best and us, so the 1st as the and 1st battle dying, but that i shall see all trying to communicate is that the conflict should happen only on the 1030 of the victim and the address on what the what agent should be remain on punched. this is the 1st time in the military history. and the 2nd idea of what the issue is that trying to get it to communicate over, click over, play to us. is that the right? it is impossible for russia to rules. again,

it's not the correct the right size laws, somebody on boards throughout the day, he's the result. nobody have up as of may. so i'm not persuaded them that all the other members are showing in his woods in decision and fear of a rush on. so i'll try and do the install this video. so it is of course, a task for us, for the eastern plank gone to is to keep explaining this to all the rest the allies . and i think down the standing is also need to be changing already. and then also in the, in more or less than the contest, but the, i agree it has, let's say taken too long time. uh, vote for this change, whether it's an ongoing process, isn't it? because your president said, i hear several countries expressing it does offer a quick diplomatic solution and compromise with russia. and there's a spreading hope that resetting relations with booting russia is possible or even inevitable. you don't believe that, do you?

of my life. i been, i am convinced that the russian government, which he must be defeated strategically because the you at this point is partially successful in these objectives, to be assessed that he would continue and print it, but so they've already knew crane would be not over and meet me and if you have a pros and conflict that at some point though something the something they like so, and they have to also understand the directions are according to them since they are in the war already with the collective, the best in their own understanding. so i don't see that many options because if you talk about the long term quantity, go as an ocean, then the make sure that your brain ends being at the end. but again, i think it this to happen, actually if the ukrainians don't get the weapons they need or permission to use the

ones they have inside russia. will it be impossible for them to when i think that one weapon system that i think i'm simplex i'm but it's a that's a long range human size. yes. i think it has to be, it has become very symbolic at this point. uh, it looks like this map on system alone doesn't sort of the conflict adult, but the question is, it's about the, the body to cultural, bogged or the, or understanding from russian side to that they are able to detour us and based on on their thoughts. luckily, they will create as heavy and they will not be their own weapons, which seems to be sometimes more patient. and then i look at what happens in russia, but we've had a ukrainian politician on this program just a week ago saying the west has given us enough weapons to fight,

but not enough to win. that's the view coming out of ukraine at the moment. don't you see where they're coming from? it they as a hard to argue little bit with this, it is on a threshold boyfriend. so the, at the, in the side with more bills and more resource really been there's a question about pro, for that position rate for both sides. ukraine needs additional get both of these, some of the nation to make that happen. august the so again, we shouldn't be somehow we shouldn't. the restrain, always setups in digital bought thing. you'll create with any type of weapon. so i'm a nation they need and i agree that the it has taken to a long time, but as authorization, so they'll be made. but again, i don't see that the cost is lost properly at this point, but there are,

there are divisions emerging in europe among nature. we have the check president present pabo saying ukraine needed to be realistic. the most probable outcome of the war would be that russia would hold on to some of the territories. it's captured at least temporary. that's pretty defeat just isn't the fact idea. takes root nato. that's not going to be good to ukraine. is it a little our talking point is that you create and can still be in this. so the discussions do we have the seems to be or in contrast to nato countries. russia has been busy transforming its economy into a war economy. it's turning out there are munitions and advanced weaponry, some of which is not so far, appearing on the battlefield. does that not suggest to you that russia is preparing for a much bigger conflict? the, let's say that coming up here about the se, set all the resources. so for rush, i'm on for so,

so the russian federation imprinted. but boy and good. what's your crate? so if you look at the situation currently along all at borders, there is not much, there are some military power available for the, from the ocean side. so that's, that's step. who would know? so the question is, if the, if it takes for russia and so we're wrong, and it's so painful to try and do the feet, feel great. and then the question is, how would it, how would that i shot before? i'm against the risk which is much more advanced. i'm not sure that would go on the conflict, but don't jump on for that. would go out in the ocean. the favor. of course, we have to make sure that the know a site, the proper resources, clients, equipment that made up with nomination stokes audit the, let's say, needed 11. i would say breast as, of course,

if the war stops in the rush or the active face of the conflict, the stop so in, by the light, that is what they need to be very painful. what full russian economy to come, all of this war economy the moment that would be very interesting to watch. so they would keep producing. and from that point on, if we take away the patient, we show having you know, cream from that point on that, that's a growth or progression. we thought a these then speeding up, i would say, your claims president zalinski has taken his what he calls his victory plan to washington to run it past the americans. he said it's applying to strength and ukraine and force russia to the negotiating table. is ukraine able to do that in your view for russia to the negotiating table? i haven't seen the victoria plan again. currently,

i do not see any reason from russian side when i go straight to anything sinks again the, let's say the best thing you'd weakness of best invites further escalation from device on side. it's not just perceived, it is weak and it says it is weight based on division in the way i think we are actually a much stronger if we would be more be link to let's say, play out this strength. and again, the other point is that, well what, what is, what are you waiting for? what's, what's the west way thing for know, well, uh, i mean i've been enough cookies and enough warnings. we are pushing the rest and allies and not only be all the time is of daily daily book and the, this is the biggest aviation, but again i, i see some move and so i'm not that pessimistic and all that on the but that base

in a book they have to point to one of the points in the presidency landscapes. victory plan is that he wants further security guarantees. will that be worth the paper? the risk, not even if he gets them the bill to pass memorandum, which was suppose to, uh, secure uh, ukraine's future when he gave up it's nuclear weapons in 1994 hasn't done so well for them as it, particularly since it was uh guaranteed both by russia and america, so visa bought to bring them fast to data, which would be the proper notice if you were to go on the malware view is, is your crime going on when not at the moment, does it nothing less? the west gets its act together and gives it the weapons. is it so going to win? no battle. uh, we have to think joe, what, what is it duration shop? what if it got a in europe and the inability of russia?

let's say bins. and the said in this case, induct basically with that, what would be story us self confident, the russia, which would the make photo long calculations based on the new situation, we would have a huge pro. well, for if we choose problem, ukraine, if let's say if i shop would take over the country and one for one other. and we would have a situation where the ukraine of resources would it would be totally against of us, by the russians and prayers that what keeps you awake at night when we are looking day and night door, let's say prevent that from happening. how long as well for us this is existing show the issue we understand so they cannot be tired of doing that right. couple of really soon. it's good to have you on the program. thank you very much for being with us. thank you very much for having the

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