of and most of those are important for both candidates, especially when states like michigan to how we would expect the outcome national election to us presidential election, 2024 watts, the whole coverage on the as the war. ukraine brings ever more death and destruction. key european officials fair most go is now preparing for conflict with the west. i guess this week goes along with that view. these co for ro, same type of as sony is intelligent service. but he still believes russia can lose, or task being the best to be the make sure that the russia comes out of this conflict as a weekend. the polar. so how united is the west, and how bible is it that ukraine gets the weapons? it's one proper rose, you welcome to come because you haven't and you view how long

does the west have before it might or might have to fight to war with russia? the of course i have to say that we don't really truck at the developments in the best. the question is the answer to that question is it should be as long as the partial is defeated, i don't know. and i think this is a mission which is opposite, oakley possible, the conduct or you say that, but in your intelligence reports in february, you said that a military confrontation with the west, russia was preparing for that. and that could happen within 10 years. but there are other people, other officials in europe who sure thing that timeline in july, the chief of the general staff of the british army general roni,

woke up on the nato, had 3 to 5 years to prepare for war with what he called them, access about people, that's russia, china, north korea and it were on, uh, do you agree with that? oh, okay, so for me to understand the question, but the point is that the, the timeline will the time, the space, what we have on our disposal before a potential conflict with russia. the 1st uh there are several factors now in, in the pipeline low cost. first, we have to make sure that this potentially event doesn't happen at the corner. so the 1st b, greystone is a home with us the going to the new crane and that really determine the future bass . yeah. or for russia, we start risk. so in, in this, this issue, if we have a situation after the,

let's say ukraine rush of war we had rush out, emerges from that as will be told he was very self confident power. it really make or calculations based on the, the new situation. then all our task in the rest should be to make sure that russia comes out of this conflict as a week and polar, which or who might be then as ordering some of the internal programs, which would probably a run in the least though he's a russian defeat in, in the contract and i think boy, they would not for life russian defeat. the 2nd question is, how long it takes to wash and store it close to do it or generate a force as we have to keep in mind that. and i would like to talk about the notion of the constitution. i would like to name that issue. maybe russian forced

generation or russian forces development may have to keep in mind that there are some all forces today are set about 100000 mind bigger than it was before the before launching the large scale invasion. and that this is the capability to spot the rush of keeps generating forces to generate some additional manpower uh, wanting it to be gotta be got programs to be that you know, that i think, but according to they are on tech and with that and or of course, i'm a nation production and agreement to the production with the order refurbishment and production with the items also we know, you know, with direct so we have, i want to come on to deal with some of those issues in, in detail. but this month's newspaper reports you talk about russia needs to be weaker if, if the west is to avoid a boy much weak from its will with ukraine. this month's newspaper report say

russia had already received more than 200 ballistics besides from iran, at a port on the s b and c. and there was a risk that more would be provided if that was miss ost keep coming from iran and from other members of that so called access to about people. russia isn't going to emerge week a is coming much, much stronger, isn't that if this trend continues to the russian. so kind of to try and to boost up. it's made it 30 strength that and of course, based on that, made that his drink. they are conducting graduation on wolf a be the, the crane. so all the task is to make sure that the, at 3 showed that aisha is using a beneficial but the mom buddies beneficial on the 4 point print. it is also i would assess that the russia cannot keep these 3 sion rates up for coming. yes and yes. so we have to make sure that the ukrainians have the power to at 3 the

russians as, as much as possible. and the question is, how do we know it's a deals with the russian intention bought resolve the ukraine, and these are me, read the rest. again, the main task. what about the after and sort of before it comes to any, but they've gone, take the dream, the nato and russia is to make sure that, that ukraine images as, as that as a big let's say, as meaning part of this is going to take people started but it doesn't look like that at the moment. does it? it doesn't look like it's winning. it's, it's, it's suffering steady loss is on the eastern front. never mind the fact that its advance its own forces into the coast region inside russia. but it's not doing well on the eastern front of toilers. it is a, i think situation has been difficult, but i wouldn't say that the russians are, let's say,

doing great the item that i should has probably a lot of would like to do is to treat the crating on part as much as possible. possibly. so the green upfront would collapse, but i don't see that happening any time. sure. so, and i'm not sure either of device also have a clear big story strategy also. uh or, i'm not sure they have that very, very clearly defined. they have at the end, the public rhetorics of, you know, what they want to look at, based on what they say. but in the reality, it's something they kind of what the chief of all i would say. do you find, come to suppose it was a wall with the west? uh, i think he respect that and they thought, but this also again, we have to make sure that this respect continues over the coming. yes. and then it comes to all apart then. how? well, or be prepared,

how would our web transport eastern blank uh so you're sharing, he'd like to have a boy if he can get away with it. is that too easily? you know, the feeling that she gets away and nothing happens to him. he comes out clean and then it might run into the calculations. but i would say if i come back to ukraine, russia situations and let's say even if it comes to the situation where they're going to be negotiations between the russia and maybe ukrainians. but i want to assess that that i shall scroll likely the likely only would like to talk to the americans only over the heads of your parents. and they would also like to discuss the not audio crane, but also the broad executed date. the 2nd with the architecture, so what they call in but be used to push nato capabilities and activities as far as possible from that i shall border and based and create a new situation on the ground. a based on that. and then again,

calculate for what the from that moment and this type of discussion all leslie is very, is the things that i see if it comes to the agenda. okay. sweet. oh, oh, you talked about the need for, for nato to up its game. how much face do you have in the lives of the mom? and i ask, because 2 years ago, your former prime minister kind of call us was highly critical of nato's plans to defend the baltic states. she said they would have resulted in a stony, a big white off the map and has nato optics game where it's planning is concerned. how does it, how does it come up with a upon like value in the 1st place? and i don't know how it came up with a plan like this, but i have the feeling that the was pretty helpless, wasn't it? then it was definitely not beneficial for us. but i would say, as far as i know, the plans have changed in that regard. the and, but it's

a constant book. now of course it needs a lot of discussion in may talk between nato allies or different allies of different view points, which is the oldest under. but it's a beauty of that last, but i think we are on the right track. most of the countries understand the threat, but that i suppose is also made and long term. and there is a general understanding that we have to be prepared or we have to be prepared to protect those simple defend dollars. so what about the troops that kind of call us one to the nato choose between 20 and 25000 to be based in estonia, as that happened when it happened. and the that's probably the question more for chief of defense. how many tulips are needed? here and when she went public saying that it is, it hadn't happened and she needed it to happen. i'm the last reports we have had saying that it hasn't happened. so i just kind of put it into the question to you.

absolutely, because i think the question here is about the what you want. it's all designated for, let's say reinforcement the re, again, concrete numbers. so more in the defense force us a domain, probably the question is how many totes you have for what the pro, it's in the piece time, which must be also manage evan, both in training get as an economically and what is probably important for us is that the we have already made the troops designate that for potential for along the reinforcements reached and it would be launched in after appropriate or early warning that he's given. so we'll say on. so do you have enough troops or not at the moment to repel, to repel a russian advance should. that'd be one. i think we would view up, but we would give a good fight to the russians and then hopefully reinstall reinforcements with the

right rapidly. according to the plants, and do you have a cost on guarantee that move in so that the countries, the members of nato will fight side by side with you if you are attacked. uh, i'm pretty confident in that, but again, the small print is it, it's not a not to go 5. yeah, but the, it, so the question is ultimate. the defense plants which are going to develop and it's a ongoing, but that's how it is. we've been talking about a possible with russia, but in the sense it's already begun. how soon to talk, if you could talk to me a little bit about the sabotage operations that have the kremlin fingerprints on them, not just in australia, but elsewhere in europe. is this, is this a growing trend? well, it is a tone. what are shopping kids can use against the rest in order to disrupt us, to bring tension in dollars. so saw this uh,

rush hour profile really helps to the to be very mine on the all the good 5 with these activities in this don't ok this we have more than 15 people arrested. what did last year in the connection with the russian summer project give me this. it seems that there's some opportunities to conduct that throughout the europe in the bottom of us on, etc. it is something serious of a these, these attacks. i would say if i open the door and in case then they live in the battery slit a lot and we have the incidence of vandalism mutual. and let's say more of this harmless the opt awesome though. the question is, of course, the, let's say the how it develops it has been, it has escalate that they hold is on things ready to go over the last year. so if this, the revere him of destabilizing um your country,

or just keeping you on your toes or making people nervous, what the main, it's a mention. it also tries to undermine probably on the mind to support of the support for your grade. yeah. if you stipulate disrupt us, it is here to tell you our resource so, so we would pay more attention and though it was internal issues and trying to bypass all what attention from the support the to do the upgrade. and let's talk about ukraine's urgent request to use long range west of messiahs on targets. in russia, you'll president our carriers port school and on the nato countries that have withheld use of that long range missiles for you, correct? because of fears of escalating, the crisis was the right to do that. you said it was pure self deception and reflected indecision and fear which played into russian hands. if your president is

right to nato is becoming and decisive and fearful, the nato is no longer fit for purpose. is it when i have to create means, my president know in this code and perfect you know some many. if you're looking to based on it, there are some 7 other that's a new federal dimes. what that i show has sometimes successfully installed in the hands of the best, and that's the 1st is the 1st battle dying. but that i shall see all trying to communicate is that the conflict should happen only on the 1030 of the victim. and the address or for whatever reason should be remain untouched. this is the 1st time in the military history. and the 2nd idea of what the issue is that trying to get it to communicate over to take over play to us. is that the right? it is impossible for russia to rules. again, it's not the correct the right size laws,

somebody on boards throughout the history, so nobody have up as it may. so i'm not persuaded them that all the other members are showing in his woods in decision and fear of a rush on. so i'll try and do the install this video. so it is, of course, a task for us for the eastern front bumper is to keep explaining this to all the rest the allies. and i think down the standing is also need to be changing a already and then also in the, in more invest in accomplish. but the, i agree it has, let's say taken too long time. uh for, for this change, whether it's an ongoing process, isn't it? because your president said, i hear several countries expressing a does offer a quick diplomatic solution and compromise with russia. and there's a spreading hope, but resetting relations with pollutants. russia is possible or even inevitable. you don't believe that. do you my life?

i been, i am convinced that the russian government, which he must be defeated strategically because he, even if pointing is partially successful in these object, reassessed that he would continue and print it. but so the warranty knew, crane would be not over and meet me. and if you have a pros and conflict that at some point or something, the something they like so, and they have to also understand the directions are according to themselves. they are in the war already with the collective, the best in the own understanding. so i don't see that many options because if you talk about the long term quantity, go as an ocean, then the make sure that the gradients be at the end. but again, i think it this 2 of them actually if the ukrainians don't get the weapons they

need or permission to use the ones they have inside russia. will it be impossible for them to win? i think that one weapon system that optic i'm so bucks i'm but it's a that's a long range human size. yes. i think it has to think it has become very symbolic. at this point, i looked at this map on system alone, 1000 and sort of the conflict the adult. but the question is, it's about the where the body to go to the board or the or understanding from russian side the that they are able to detour us and based on on their thoughts. luckily, they are great as having devin opening their own weapons, which seems to be sometimes more efficient when i look at what happens in russia, but we've had a ukrainian politician on this program just a week ago saying the west has given us enough weapons to fight but not enough to

win. that's the view coming out of ukraine at the moment. don't you see where they're coming from? it is hard to argue. little bit with this. it is on a threshold boyfriend. so the, at the, in the side with more bills and more resource really been is a question about property 3 sion rate for both sides. ukraine meets additional debt, both additional information to make that happen. august the so again, we shouldn't be somehow we shouldn't. the restrain, always setups in digital bought ding your credit with any type of weapon. so i'm a nation they need and i agree that the it has taken to a long time, but as authorization, so they'll be made. but again, i don't see that the cost is lost properly at this point, but there are,

there are divisions emerging in europe among very so we have the check president present pabo saying ukraine needed to be realistic. the most probable outcome of the war would be that russia would hold on to some of the territories. it's captured at least 10 cray. that's pretty defeat just isn't the fact idea. takes root nato. that's not going to be good for ukraine. is it a little our talking point is that you create and can still be in this. so the discussions do we have the seems to be in contrast to nato countries. russia has been busy transforming its economy into a war economy. it's turning out there are munitions and advanced weaponry, some of which is not so far, appearing on the battlefield. does that not suggest to you that russia is preparing for a much bigger conflict? the, let's say that about me see that all the resources. so for rush,

i'm on for so, so the russian federation imprinted but going good. what's your crate? so if you look at the situation currently along all at borders, there is not much, there are some military power available for the from, from the ocean side. so that's, that's the who would know, so based on these, if the, if it takes 4 restaurants so wrong and it's sold, paying for it to trying to the feet. feel great. and then the question is, how would it, how would that i shot before? i'm against the risk, which is much more advanced. i'm not sure that would go on the conflict, but don't jump warranty would go out in the ocean, then a favor. of course, we have to make sure that the know a site, the proper resources, clients, equipment available, nomination stokes audit the, let's say needed 11. i would say breast is of course if the war stops

in the rush, although active face of the conflict, the stop. so we, and by the light, or it least would be, it need to be very painful, what full russian economy to come, all of this war economy a moment that would be very interesting to watch. so they would keep producing. and from that point, the lawn, if we take away the patient, we shall, having, you know, cream from that point on that, that's a growth or progression. we thought a ease, then speeding up, i would say, ukraine's president zalinski has taken his what he calls his victory plan through washington to run it past the americans. he said it's applying to strength and ukraine and force russia to the negotiating table. is ukraine able to do that in your view for russia to the negotiating table? i haven't seen the victoria plan again. currently,

all you do not see any reason from russian side. negotiate anything. since again, the, let's say the proceed. weakness of this invites further escalation from device on site. it's not just perceive that is weak and it says that it's weight based on division. in the way, i think we are actually a much stronger if we would be more be link to let's say, play out this strength. and again, the other point is that, well what, what is, what are you waiting for? what's, what's the west waiting for? the well, uh, i mean i've been enough cookies and enough warnings. we are pushing the rest and allies to, i'm not going to be ordered diamonds and daily daily book. and the, this is the basis a patient. but again i, i see some move and so i'm not that pessimistic. and all that on the days in

a book they have to point to one of the points in the presidency landscapes. victory plan is that the ones for the security guarantees that we'll, that'd be worth the paper, the risk not even if he gets them. the beauty pass memorandum, which was supposed to uh, secure uh, ukraine's future when it gave up it's nuclear weapons in 1994 hasn't done so well for them as it, particularly since it was a guaranteed both by russia and america. so the visa board to bring them fast to data, which would be the proper notice if you were to go on to in our view, is ukraine going on when not at the moment? is it nothing less the west gets its act together and gives it the weapons? is it so going to with noble uh we have to think joe, what would it do? i shouldn't joke, but it got a in europe and the inability of russia. let's say bins and the said in this case

induct basically with that, what would be story us self confident, the russia, which would the make photo long calculations based on the new situation. we would have a huge role for if we choose problem. ukraine, if let's say, if i shop would take over the country and one for one other. and we would have a situation where the ukraine, our resources would it would be towing against of us by the russians. and figure out what keeps you awake at night. well then we are looking day and night to let's say prevent that from happening. how long as well for us this is existing show the issue we understand so that kind of be tired of doing that. all right, couple of really soon. it's good to have you on the program. thank you very much for being with us. thank you very much for having the

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