swain states like michigan. so how will it affect the outcome? because it actually election to as presidential election, 2024 watts, the whole coverage on the as the warring ukraine brings ever more death and destruction. key european officials fair most go is now preparing for conflict with the west. i guess this week goes along with that view. these co for roses type of as sony as intelligence service. but he still believes prussia can lose our task in the best to be, to make sure that russia comes out of this conflict as a beacon polar. so how united is the west, and how bible is it that you crane gets the weapons? it's one proper. rose, you welcome to come because you haven't and your view,

how long does the west have before it might or might have to fight a war with russia? the of course i have to say that we don't really truck at the developments in the best. the question is, the answer to that question is it should be as long as i shaw east defeat that i don't know. and i think this is a mission, which is absolutely possible to conduct as you say, that but in your intelligence reports in february, you said that a military confrontation with the west, russia was preparing for that. and that could happen within 10 years. but there are other people, other officials in europe who sure thing that timeline in july, the chief of the general staff of the british army general roni, woke up on the nato, had 3 to 5 years to prepare for war with what he called them,

access about people, that's russia, china, north korea and it were on, uh, do you agree with that? uh okay, so uh for me to understand the question, but the point is that um the time line when the time space, what we have uh on our disposal before the potential conflict with the rush on the 1st uh there are several factors now in the pipeline uh, the cost 1st we have to make sure that this potential event doesn't happen at all. so the 1st place that nice a home with dos, the contract, the new crane, and that really determine the future bass. yeah. or for russia, we use the risk. so in, in this, this issue, if we have a situation after the, let's say, ukraine rush of war,

we had to rush out images from that as a big torrijos, very self confident power. it really make or calculations based on the, the new situation. then our task in the rest should be to make sure that russia comes out of this conflict as a week and polar beach or who might be then as ordering some of the internal programs, which would probably the run into if there is a rush and the feet in the contract and i think boy, they would not for life russian defeat. that the 2nd question is how long it takes to watch and store it close to do it or generate forces. we have to keep in mind that and i would like to talk about the notion reconstitution. i would like to name the issue and maybe russian 1st generation or russian forces

development may have to keep in mind that there are some all forces today are set about 100000 mind bigger than it was before the before launching. the launch gave invasion that this is the capability to spot the shock deeps generating force us to generate additional manpower. uh, wanting it to be gotta be got programs to meet the general, i think. but according to they are on track with that and or of course, i'm a nation production and equipment and production with the order refurbishment the production with the ocean. so, so we know, you know what the actual we have, i want to come on and deal with some of those issues in, in detail. but this month's newspaper reports you're talking about. russia needs to be weaker if, if the west is to avoid a boy much weak from its will with ukraine. but this month's newspaper report say russia had already received more than 200 ballistic missiles from iran at

a port on the s b and c. and there was a risk of it more would be provided if there was massage, keep coming from iran and from other members of that so called access to about people. russia isn't going to emerge. we kids come a much, much stronger, isn't that if this trend continues to, the russians are cut off to trying to boost up. it's me that 30 strength and of course, based on that means that his drink, they are conducting graduation on wolf. it would be the ukraine. so all the task is to make sure that the activation that aisha is easy, not beneficial, but the mom buddies beneficial on the for poor to print. it is also i would assess that the rush, i cannot keep this position rate up for coming. yes and yes. so we have to make sure that the ukrainians have the power to at 3 the russians as,

as much as possible. and the question is, how do we know it's a deals with that? why sion, the intention bought resolve the ukraine end result, me read the rest again the main task while i bought the after and sort of before it comes to any. but they've got to take the dream, the nato and russia, is to make sure that, that ukraine images as, as that as a big let's say, as being part of this, this quantity people started. but it doesn't look like that at the moment. does it? it doesn't look like it's winning, it's, it's, it's suffering steady loss is on the east and from never mind the fact that it's advances and forces into the cossack region inside russia. but it's not doing well on the eastern front of toilers. it is a, i think situation has been difficult, but i wouldn't say that the russians are, let's say, doing great the item. what the question is probably

a lot would like to do is to treat the crating on part as much as possible. possibly. so the green upfront would collapse, but i don't see that happening any time. sure. so and i'm not sure either of device . you also have a clear big story strategy also. uh, i'm not sure they have that very, very clearly defined. they have at the end, the public rhetorics of, you know, what they want to look at, based on what they say. but in the reality, it's something they kind of what the chief of all i would say. do you find, come to suppose it was a war with the west? uh, i think he respect that and they thought, but this also again, we have to make sure that this respect continues over the coming years and then it comes to all apart then. how? well, or be prepared, how would our, our plans for the eastern plank?

so you're sharing, he'd like to have a boy, if you can get away with it, is that to even the feeling that she gets away and nothing happens to him, he comes out clean and then it might run into the calculations. but i would say if i come back to ukraine, rush us advice, and then let's say, even if it comes to the situation where they're going to be negotiations between the russia and maybe ukraine is. but i would assess that the russian skill likely likely only would like to talk to the americans only over the heads of your parents . and they would also like to discuss the not donio crane. but most of the brothers acute it that you'll be asked to do with the architecture. so what they call in but be is to push natal capabilities and activities as far as possible from the ocean boulder and based and create a new situation on the ground. a based on that and then again calculate for what

the from that moment and this type of discussion all leslie is very, is the things that i see if it comes to the agenda. okay, great. oh, oh, you talked about the need for, for nato to up its game. how much space do you have in the alliance? at the moment i ask, because 2 years ago, your former prime minister kind of call us was highly critical of nato's plans to defend the baltic states. she said they would have resulted in a stony, i think, wiped off the map as nato optics game where it's planning is concerned. how does it, how does it come up with a upon like value in the 1st place? and i don't know how it came up with a plan like this, but i have the feeling that the was pretty hopeless, wasn't it then it was definitely not beneficial for us. but i would say, as far as i know, the plans have changed in that regard. the and, but it's a constant book. now, of course,

a new stop discussion in may talk between nato allies or different allies of different view points, which is the oldest under. but it's a beauty of the last, but i think we are on the right track. and most of the companies understand the threat about that, i suppose is that also made and long term. and there is a general understanding that we have to be prepared or we have to be prepared to protect those simple defend dollars. so what about the troops that kind of call us one to the nato choose between 20 and 25000 to be based in estonia, as that happened when it happened. and the that's part of the question, more for chief of defense, how many troops are needed here? and she went public saying that it is, it hasn't happened and she needed it to happen. i'm the last reports we have had saying that it hasn't happened. so i started putting the question to you. absolutely, because i think the question here is about the what you want. it's all designated

for, let's say a reinforcement, the re, again, concrete numbers or more in the defense versus a domain. probably the question is, how many totes you have for what detroit in the piece time of each must be also manage evan, both in training get as an economically and what is probably important for us is that the we have already made the troops designate that for potential for along the reinforcements reached and it would be launched in after the proper early warning that he's given. so we'll say on. so do you have enough troops or not at the moment to repel, to repel a russian advance should. that'd be one. i think we with the view up, we would give a good fight to the russians and then hopefully readings reinforcements with the right rapidly, according to the plants. and do you have

a cost on guarantee that more than 30 countries, the members of nato will fight side by side with you if you are attacked. uh, i'm pretty confident in that, but again, the small print is it, it's not a not to go 5. yeah, but the it, so the question is ultimate, the defense plants, which are the ones that they developed and it's a ongoing but that's how it is. we've been talking about a possible with russia, but in the sense it's already begun. how soon to talk. you can talk to me a little bit about the sabotage operations that have the kremlin fingerprints on them, not just in australia, but elsewhere in europe. is this, is this a growing trend? well, it is a total of what the national finks it can use against the rest in order to disrupt us to bring tension a dollar. so saw this. uh, rochelle probably helps that to be relying on the all the good 5 we disagreement

isn't this, don't okay. this we have more than 15 people arrested over the last a year in the connection with the russian. some of the project give me this. it seems that there's a lot of activities conduct that throughout the europe and in the bottom of awesome, etc. or it is something serious of a these, these attacks. i would say if i open this door and in case then they live in the battery slit a lot. and we have the incidence of vandalism mutual. and let's say more of this harmless the opt awesome. the question is, of course, the, let's say the how it develops it has been, it has escalate that the always on things ready to go over the last year. so if this, the revere him of destabilizing um your country, or just keeping you on your toes or making people know of us what the main, it's

a mention. it also tries to undermine probably on the mind, to support the, for the trip up to your grade. yeah, it is the disrupt us, it is here to tell you our resource. so they'll be would pay more attention in the towards internal issues and trying to buy the attention from the support the to do the upgrade. and let's talk about ukraine's urgent request to use long range west of messiahs on targets in russia. your president, our carriers port school and on the nato countries that have withheld use of a long range missiles for you, correct? because affairs of escalating, the crisis was the right to do that. you said it was pure self deception and reflected in decision and fear which played into russian hands. if your president is right to nato is becoming in decisive, i'm fearful,

the nato is no longer fit for purpose. is it when i have to aggravate miss my president know in this code and perfect you know some many. if you're looking to based on it, there are some 7 other that's a new federal dimes. what that i show has sometimes successfully in store and in the head of best. and that's the 1st as the 1st battle dying. but that i shall see all trying to communicate is that the conflict should happen only on the 1030 of the victim, and the address or for whatever reason should be remain untouched. this is the 1st time in the military history. and the 2nd idea of what the options of trying to and it to communicate over to pull that play into us. is that the right? it is impossible for russia to roles. again, it's not the correct the right size, last set by no boys throughout the day. you start as old as of may,

so i'm not persuaded them that all the other members are showing in his woods in decision and fear of a rush on. so i'll try and do the install this for you. so it is, of course, a task for us for the eastern front bumper is to keep explaining this to all the rest the allies. and i think down the standing is also need to be changing a already and then also in the, in more invest in accomplish. but the, i agree it has, let's say taken too long time uh for, for this change. but it's an ongoing process, isn't it? because your president said, i hear several countries expressing a dissolved for a quick diplomatic solution and compromise with russia. and there's a spreading hope that resetting relations with pollutants. russia is possible or even inevitable. you don't believe that, do you? i, my life. i been, i am convinced that the russian government,

which he must be defeated strategically because the you at this point is partially successful in these objectives, to reassess that. he would continue imprinted, but so they've already knew crane would be not over and meet me. and if you have a pros and conflict that at some point the something the, something they like so, and they have to also understand that the russians are, according to themselves. they are in the war already with the collective, the best in their own understanding. so i don't see the many options for us. if you talk about the longer term going to go as an ocean, then the make sure that your brain ends being at that again. i think it this store, but actually if the ukrainians don't get the weapons they need or permission to use the ones they have inside russia. will it be impossible for them to when

i think that one weapon system that i'll talk, i'm simple example. it's a, that's a long range human size. yes, somebody can be testing, it has become very symbolic. at this point. it's a display phone system alone doesn't sort of the conflict the adult. but the question is, it's about the, where the body to cultural bought, or the or understanding from russian side to that they are able to detour us and based on on their thoughts. luckily they will create as having they will not be their own weapons, which seems to be sometimes more efficient. when i look at what happens in russia, but we've had a ukrainian politician on this program just a week ago saying the west has given us enough weapons to fight, but not enough to win. that's the view coming out of ukraine at the moment. don't

you see where they're coming from? it is hard to argue little bit with this that it is on a threshold boyfriend. so the at the, in the side to be more bills and more resource really been. there's a question about the pro ration rate for both sides. ukraine needs additional bit, both of the nation elimination to make that happen, august the so again, we shouldn't be somehow we shouldn't the registry know a set ups in digital bought thing. you'll create with any type of weapon, so i'm a nation they need and i agree that the it has taken to a long time, but as authorization, so they'll be made. but again, i don't see that the cost is lost properly at this point, but there are, there are divisions emerging in europe among nature. we have the check president

present pabo saying ukraine needed to be realistic. the most probable outcome of the war would be that russia would hold on to some of the territories. it's captured at least temporary. that's pretty defeat just isn't the fact idea. takes root nato. that's not going to be good to ukraine. is it a little a talking point is that you creating can still be in this? so the discussions do we have the seems to be in contrast to nato countries. russia has been busy transforming it's economy into a war economy. it's turning out there are munition and advanced weaponry, some of which is not so far, appearing on the battlefield. does that not suggest to you that russia is preparing for a much bigger conflict? the, let's say that coming up here about the se, set all the resources. so for rush, i'm on for so, so the russian federation imprinted. but boy and good. what's your crate?

so if you look at the situation currently along all at borders, there is not much, there are some military power available for the from, from that iron side. so that's, that's step. who would know? so the question is, if the, if it takes for russia and so we're wrong and it's so painful to try and do the feet, feel great. and then the question is, how would it, how would that i shot before them against the rest, which is much more advanced? i'm not sure that would go well uh the conflict, but the jump warranty would go out in the ocean. the favor, of course we have to make sure that the noa site, the proper resources, clients, equipment available, nomination stokes audit the, let's say needed 11. i would say breast as of course, if the war stops in the rush or the active face of the conflict,

the stop. so we know by the light, that is what they need to be very painful. what full russian economy to come out of this war economy the moment that would be very interesting to watch. so they would keep producing. and from that point along, if we take away the pressure on each of having you know, cream from that point on that, that's a growth or progression. we thought a, he's then speeding up. i would say ukraine's president zelinski has taken his what he calls his victory plan through washington to run it past the americans . he said it's a plan to strengthen ukraine and force russia to the negotiating table. is ukraine able to do that? in your view for russia to the negotiating table, i haven't seen the victoria plan again. currently, all you do not see any reason from russian side to negotiate anything uh,

syncs. again the lets say the seed weakness of this invites further escalation from device on site. it's not just saved, it is weak and it says that it's weight based on division in the way i think we are actually a much stronger if we would be more be link to let's say, play out this strength. and then the other point is that what, what, what is, what are you waiting for? what's, what's the west waiting for? know, well, uh, i mean i've been enough cookies and enough warnings be on or pushing the rest and allies. and not only be all the time is of the daily daily book, and this is the basis a patient. but again i, i see some movement. so i'm not that pessimistic and all that on. but it base or a book they have to point to one of the points in the presidency landscapes.

victory plan is that he wants further security guarantees that we'll, that'd be worth the paper that risk not even if he gets them. the beauty pass memorandum, which was supposed to uh, secure uh, ukraine's future when it gave up it's nuclear weapons in 1994 hasn't done so well for them as it, particularly since it was a guaranteed both by russia and america. so the visa board to pay them fast to data, which would be the proper notice if you were to guarantee in our view. is ukraine going on when not at the moment, does it nothing less? the west gets its act together and gives it the weapons. is it so going to wind noble. uh we have to think joe, what would it do? i shouldn't show up, but it got a in europe and the, the prussia, let's say bins. and the said, in this case, end up basically with that, what would be story us self confident,

the ratio which would make photo long calculations based on the new situation, we would have a huge pro. well, for if we choose problem ukraine, you flips it. i sure would take over the country in one form or another. and we would have a situation where the ukraine of resources would it would be totally against of us, by the russians and prayers that what keeps you awake at night when we are looking day and night, do, let's say prevent that from happening. how long as well for us this is existing show the issue. we understand children cannot be tired of doing that right. couple really soon. it's good to have you on the program. thank you very much for being with us. thank you very much for having the

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