to check out the same 9 dodge your journey. been get inside the nigeria is back, said the new president. last year when he took over the chairman shapes of the west, african regional block eco, a. he flips to boost his country's influence. after years of inward looking administration, economic malaise and security challenges, i spoke about that with the countries for ministry use of to got in a special conflicts own from the berlin global dialogue. how does he see nigeria stepping up with the leadership role when it confronts a domino of crews on it's doorstep? foreign powers positioning for an influence on the continent. the conflict into down and citizens leaving nigeria in the face of economic and security, fear,

missouri and foreign minister use of took our thank you so much for joining us on conflicts on from the berlin global dialogue. thank you for having me. let's begin, and your region, west africa, your government aims to reassert its influence after years of inward looking administrations. but you've had this domino of cruise on your doorstep is in this a helm. you share, molly and burkina, faso, all falling to military governments. it's not going to be an easy task, is it is not easy, but you have to look at the root causes of what we're facing today. the unconstitutional changes of government, the direct result of the serial. they use a head strategy, the direct result of the, um, uh the breaking down of the good that she's regina in the, in the, in libya, they are, of course, a direct result of, uh, uh, trying to cub migration and the fight against terrorism. and

the fact that uh, nigeria was not included in item of these initiatives. and with those factors in mind, what does it mean for you in actual practice? because you're the big player in echo us. this is the economic community of west african states. it's been key to your influence in the region, and now you have new share, malia and burkina, faso not only withdrawing their membership from echo last, they're also forming their own alliance. the alliance of sa health states, your zone of interest, language shrinking, isn't it? no, it's not. we continue to engage new share, my leave or it's, you know, fossil and other countries. we don't see them. and the thing simply by pronouncing that they've left, there's a process of these countries i signature used to the echo us protocol. it's treaties of events, so it takes time. i'm in the meantime,

we continue with full on diplomatic efforts and don't interrupt me. i know you, i know your fund of doing that. they keep because i'll interrupt you to they keep that's that they would. so we continue and you have to do things even within the f plus a community. you've got the manual revise you've got uh we are part of the admin j t f for instance. so there's nothing wrong with having uh, such a groupings as being part of uh, of course. so it does not necessarily stand that it means that the standing conflicts with that with but ultimately, i mean, they don't seem as if they're interested in rejoining any time. so well, unfortunately, you'll see, some impossibility of that would be joining in the next 2 to oh yeah, what do you need to make these diplomatic efforts? we're making headway. it's a process, it's not an event when your president took over as chair of ek last last year. he said the following, and i'd like to to quote him. he says he would not allow qu after qu in west africa,

and that you must not sit in echo s as quote, toothless bull dogs. and now when we look at the situation, echo echo has failed to make good on a threat to militarily intervene to stop the coo and new share. because uh, the concern is the is and then the list is no thank section. then you lifted the sanctions that were intended to pressure up was, is the community has as well since the become a toothless both the community. so the priority is the people and not the states, not the system of government. and we will make rational decisions just as we did the i, the threats of the use of force was one of several options. and that's a wait for minutes, but you didn't make good on it. so. so the question is, how can you put a view on the net care and age what it was was about what you were looking for now on the dial me him on the keels? i've seen the non was so that's why we did not. well,

i'm asking you that because you, you have rational, i've to have the layout it evaluated it under decided to wasn't as the best thing to do on the diplomatic efforts to continue. you have these values though, as echo, as in just like we hire have them. we mentioned the economic integration but also piece in democracy. i mean, you, you really pride yourself in this nation and nigeria as being on the use of my will, which in those countries, how are you representing less than that inspection? sure. with that in room for how can you like to see me but because of constitutional democracy. okay. where did those values stand in the face of military cause a stand in the countries like an idea and other stuff continue to avoid them is done with f less and this is what we will continue to do. we are a democracy and it was, is the community chief way of west african states, the priority the focus is on the community of people. so when not just

simply to make goods on what foot 4 knows, we're not going to uh just inbox on some sort of uh cottage um blood shed just so that you would say, oh yes, they made good and there was a left to turn out to for an influence, cuz you know, we have seen for an influence on the continent and following this a hell cruise and burkina faso, molly new share that began in 2021. we've seen those countries reorient their security partnerships with french and us troops to now russia. and its proxy is russia is said to have the strategy of driving a wedge between echo us to extend its influence and under cut. the west is that concerning to you and how concerning it's very concerning insights. uh, external interference in general having uh for instance, unless scenarios or a private village uh, companies as

a whole or preaching in the region in this a how is, is a great concern to us and this is why we continue to make a different magic efforts. it's been, it's been proven to fail when external forces tried to come into f was to solve problems or to create spheres of influence. you can see what an idea was able to achieve in, in, in sarah new own, in liberia, when it led up to a month and restore the piece to the elections and the continued under democratic administration. and this is precisely what we're also doing with the multinational joint task force that is succeeding and the fight against both will have around uh, in the lake said, the regents and what quotes and national joint task force is nigeria? it's new share. it's chad. it's kind of,

we're going to get to the security issues in this conversation. but 1st, i just like to ask you because you were recently in russia, you said that you had an interaction with um 4 minutes to allow for off. were you given any assurances you said that you essentially, um, reiterated the importance of unity with an eco us. what did the russians have to say? and they told us that uh, they uh, fully in support of peace in the region. i believe then. well, i'm a diploma. so no we wait to see what's your biggest fear we, what is the rest of the rest on the continent. but don't worry, i know poverty, i trust but verify. so that's what i do. and what do you make of what you're saying? well, i'm watching, and we continue our diplomatic efforts. spoken as a diplomat. you, you have that one that as a journalist,

as you have said, that your position and i'm hearing it here as well as one of strategic autonomy and that you work with all countries. so how much pressure, though, are you under to choose the size windows on the end because it goes, is normally the 1st time you cetera we, we see countries splitting into blocks, right? the spitting into blocks over ukraine to some extent, there also, you know, splitting the splitting of the box over the, the war that we're seeing on the continent in sudan that's raging. how difficult is it for you to maintain strategic autonomy? it's always a challenge of governance as a whole, diplomacy being part of the international community. it's always difficult because as a student of international relations, i know that the international system isn't and i'm not kick one countries fight and fight for the national interest. and because of that

it's, it's not a cable. so we're not expecting it to be that you know, country expects that. as we mentioned security challenges a little bit earlier. and i'd like to hit on that now because there are still a tax spike groups like i us and boca her rom and kidnapping for ransom is a huge problem in your country. for example, this year. and i just like to highlight a number of incidents gunman have it deducted at least 150 people in similar to states um 287 students in doing a 200 people in bore know how can citizens trust your government if you can't provide the very basic needs for 0 from new york. how many people get shot to new york? what we're talking about nigeria? well, i wanted to, you know, i'm making the point that, you know, when you try to highlights incidence every nix, fix on every single incident and highlight and you've never even been to the idea or you just told me, you know,

of in africa. so this is stuff you're getting from the into that. so, you know, it doesn't necessarily mean that, that is all that is going on. and the idea in your country that united states, the, the, the, one of the, the, that the, the candidates, all of the, of the, all of the, the leading patches for the presidential elections was which was shot will start that to do. does that mean you highlight that and just right of the united states of america? i'm just asking you with them. i already have like, under ends are i'm just saying as and the, here's some calling that's coming out of your, your country. and it says that the majority are of the opinion that you're not doing enough to curb kid not view credit for this one. you can focus of on the negative if you want and create to matter to parts of it. i want to hear what you're doing, but focus on the positive. so we are

a country of 220000000 people's. there will be a acts of violence. there will be conflict with. we remain a deliberative democracy with making rapid progress did on nation building in development. and majority of nigerians live in peace. it's been said that extreme poverty, especially in rural areas, has made it easy for g is to continue recruiting among frustrated. you spoke a rom has been described, the still being extremely powerful. no, that's nonsense. a ton nonsense. okay. i don't know where you're getting that from . i know you get all your information. so you end up the you've never even been to . you've jumped out the grey homeless, the degree dates. have you been able to stay on top of the house? you have sales or both for her. i'm that still a fridge but it does not to me. they don't control any type of cheese. ok, so to describe them i as that, as i said, nonsense,

well it's been described. i very, it's very unique to check other websites. this one that you downloaded from is the wrong one. okay, well even if you're able to reduce violence in your country, how are you going to keep it out? let's look at the region more broadly. okay, kathleen poverty, title is have securities, focus on the things that we're doing this and this just as you are doing on just let me finish special on food security. analyst has said, for example, i want to look at one aspect of this because, and also said that the crews and molly new share and be for q and a fast to have largely led to an increase in violence like transnational tires are filled with more organized friday, due to the collapse of, uh, but how uh, how big of a lower ratio tackle act than lights, headphones. so we're having to do with that the g 5. so have a prism, but a kinase and i 0 was notified of in comparison to what we were a part of which was a promo. but we lead success successfully reset to serial and reset to live here.

and which we're doing with the multinational drug test source. that's an idea for you. i'd like to turn on what they used to call us the goose bust. that's that was the idea. so another potential flash point for your security and then i'd like to turn to the potential flash point virginia and i on this stage we don't have any flash. why? we're having a constructive conversation. okay. but another potential flash point for your content, i'm on the thank you for not over interrupting me this time around. i think i've flipped it go on fair enough. another potential flash point for and i'd like to talk about another potential flash point for your security is the conflict into down the former prime minister of dollar home doc says that he fears the civil war is quote, fertile ground for the spread of regional terrorism. and do you share that fear? so i do not the only, but i share the fear of the repercussions on idea of

because we have about 8000000. uh so, disney's, uh that of fine and i do an extraction so that we have our largest dashboard that is done, which is why, you know, sometimes we wonder why, you know, there's, there's so much to inquire about migration. and nigerians living in euro for the price of the world because this that they've done is our largest dash 4. and it goes back in history because of the pilgrimage to mecca on foot force black. um, so historically you have lots of nigerians in done so that's why we're getting involved with unlike other countries, we took our time window of the terrain. that's why it's always good to work with

those know the environment and on the jury. we did not want a situation where we get involved and then were deemed to be taking sides in the conference was really once a resolution to the so where does your foreign policy put you on this conflict to? because you know, for those i got away. i you have the complex is, can you have an opening uh, working you monday morning and then if you have a being block, if you are doing filing your and civilian has been doing your searches properly. you would have seen that uh, only last week i had a meeting with these. the news for him. been stuff on the margins of the united nations general assembly. so to so how do you see nigeria is role then in brokering me typically broker and new solution of yours is media to be the role and using the platform of the african union. okay, because we have seen these diplomatic efforts, and we've seen diplomatic efforts on the part of the us and saudi arabia. we've

also seen you said us. yeah, we've also seen regionally. thank you. god, for example, we are right. you tell me all right there. i just getting a song you that we have history, we have done, we understand it very well. in fact, lots of nigerians, us and, and he's or let us the news on the years. so that's why it's always good to work with those in the neighborhood. so are you making, are you making news here right now? because i just want to say one brands and make me make names. one, add a list from your country has said the following. he says that no other country in africa has what it takes to fill this role to help build the prospects of a lasting piece into down. you're going to be playing a greater role on. i know the wouldn't be able to and then the safe are you playing a greater vol and brokering solutions as well as the news we've been saying is mm hm. so we can expect the top is what the interior more. well better yet please

visit nigeria. visit africa for once. i want to get final. what do you make of the play though for international, you know, the international power dynamics, cuz this is a complex conflict, right? you know, there is talk a for an involvement, the u a. e is accused of backing the para military rapids support forces. something that they deny around in egypt are arming the say, half russia is said to be playing both sides deploying mercenaries. how much of an impact do you see this involvement having? and how concerning is it to you, or what impacts of yours foreign involvement horn and well that for, for, for an invalid, that's what conflict best. what is that should be to distribution? maybe it was and that's why when a country like an idea or if you look at uh, now jurors approach the reason why it combines a lot of respects and difference on the african continent is we on non fact name.

uh, 1st of all i need was that how much smaller than the nice ok. and it's clear that over the course of history we do things shortly. i'll do actually with them all for the better and 1st of africa, that's why a lot of countries refers so much confidence when we come in, as mediators, it's happened going back to the sixties and seventies chad when we were having resolving the working on resolving the conflicts and chad, we had the chide conferences inc. time northern parts of an idea, right? you wouldn't know, but when you come to nigeria, i'll teach you that was done with mediated there in the past. and that is why nigeria, nigeria said, don't forget, the major is in the countries that has a new permanent seat in the african union. peace and security council is the reason

for that. i like to get a final thought from you about the play for influence in africa a little bit later. but before we go and i understand you have limited time, i must ask you about the state of the economy. your government vowed or reset of nigeria is and kind of me instead it's been described as the worst economic conditions and nigeria and 3 decades inflation, higher the growth vance, your boy towards the national dentist sticks your words lation and that's again, his title started with is that it said the old by the way, higher than 3 have the was not your president has just and this actually happened the day he just li patients the or for the last day for a patient. you know, do you really think nigerians have time to wait? as they do yours, a very fish and very understanding and they see what the government is doing and how much progress we're making with metro economic default reforms until a company like a brand and came a long trip to courage, currency exchange,

and so to undermine those micro economic before by allowing for money a laundry through the platform, which affected our exchange rates i'm into. and so that became a major set up for the my curriculum. what we're addressing that we're covering. most of that. i see you apply to the good see. so yeah, tell me, tell me a little bit more about the protests because i mean you have had nationwide protests, you had them in august. you also have them again this week, the ones in august, i think that's where, where is the fatal catch in nigeria? it gets overblown. well, we got a deliberative defense. our ap allow or a restful of some of their policies. exactly. well, we'll close actually, and that's what i would like to ask you. and so i don't know why in ohio, but there is a prep. the hey, look, visit visit for just an idea. the whole roof is going to cave in how high is the risk thought and not make

a leave it or not shake people's foundation though and not just on us. we are the more glass coffee and with that you have protest in your country the united states . same way that you have protest care in germany where you live. we also have protests in nigeria. it's a deliberative democracy. people are allowed to voice their opinions and they have freedom of association. they have the freedom to express themselves and you know, it should not be different. yeah. so that's the way that they are the fuel especially don't lie just like a nation, therefore, or look down, every one very quick question. all right, then we have to go and i'd like to ask you about the future, the youth, because you've talked about the moxley in your country and how you have such a strong young population. but a lot of the youth are, are saying, and are leaving the concord the term there's. there's also like commercials with jobs, i might not mean send the said this one, but a lot of the use. well,

it's estimated that more that more than what, at least in my face, where you 100 people have chosen where, where's your am over with that website as your officials to, i know that you know which websites that's your official stuff which works out events which website quoted by bbc, the 0 official statistics will be refined, bbc is major is over. so as the turns about the offer nigerians leaving about the number of new jersey. yeah. yeah. we yeah. which is why we're having the phones, which is why we, uh, we uh, and barking on which we was should have been discussing, which we've done in terms of food security. what we've done in terms of inclusive between the associated investment programs, the infrastructure develop that is taking place in nigeria, the special economic zones. this is what we should focus more on instead of just highlighting the negative foreign minister to the thank you so much for your time. we very much appreciate having you on conflicts on from the berlin global dialogue . thank you for the conversation as always,

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