is and security challenges. i spoke about that with the countries for ministry use of to got in a special conflicts down from the berlin global dialogue. how does he see nigeria stepping up with the leadership role when it confronts a domino of crews on its doorstep? foreign powers positioning for influence on the continent, the conflict into down and citizens leaving nigeria in the face of economic and security. fear. if you're in foreign minister use of took our thank you so much for joining us on conflicts on from the berlin global dialogue. thank you for having me . let's beginning your region west africa. your government aims to reassert its influence after years of inward looking administrations. but you have this domino of cruise on your door step. in this a whole new chair, molly and burkina, faso, all falling to military governments. it's not going to be an easy task, is it is not easy, but you have to look at the root causes of what we're facing today. the on

constitutional changes of government. they are a direct result of the serial they use the head strategy, the direct result of the um uh the breaking down of the good that she's regina in uh, in the, in libya they are, of course a direct result of, uh, uh, trying to cubs the migration and the fight against terrorism and the fact that nigeria was not included in item of these initiatives. and with those factors in mind, what does it mean for you in actual practice? because you're the big player in echo us to this is the economic community of west african states. it's been key to your influence in the region, and now you have new share, malia and burkina, faso not only withdrawing their membership from echo us. they're also forming their own alliance. the alliance of so health states your zone of into language shrinking,

isn't it? no, it's not. we continue to engage new share. my leave or it's, you know, for us on other countries. we don't see them. and the being simply by for noticing that they have left, there's a process of these countries i signature used to the echo us uh for to hold street cheese of events. so it takes time. i'm in the meantime, we continue with full on diplomatic efforts. don't interrupt me, i know you, i know you're fond of doing that. the cheap because i'll interrupt you to a cheap. so that's the big wood. so we continue and you have to do things even within the f plus a community. you've got the, my new revise you've got, uh, we are part of the admin j t f for instance. so there's nothing wrong with having uh such a groupings as being part of uh, of course. so it does not necessarily stand that it means that the standing

conflict with that with but ultimately i mean, they don't seem as if they're interested in rejoining any time. so well, unfortunately you'll see to me and possibility of that will be joining in the next 2 days. oh yeah. what do we do need to make these diplomatic efforts? we're making headway. it's a process. it's not an event when your president took over as chair of ac last last year, he said the following, and i'd like to to quote him. he says he would not allow qu after qu in west africa, and that you must not sit in. echo was as quote, toothless bull dogs. and now when we look at the situation echo, echo has failed to make good on a threat to militarily intervene to stop the coo and new share. because uh, the concern is the is and then the lift is no thank search it. then you lifted the sanctions that were intended to pressure up was, is the permit. it has a loss of state become a toothless both the community. so the priority is the people and not the states, not the system of government,

and we will make rational decisions. just as we did the i, the threats of the use of force was one of several options. and that's a wait for minutes, but you didn't make good on it so. so the question is, how can you put a view on the net care and age what it was was about what you were looking for now on this is all me him on the keels. i've seen the non was so that's why we did not . well, i'm asking you that because you, you have rational, i've to have the layout, it evaluated it under decided it wasn't the best thing to do. and the diplomatic efforts to continue. you have these values though as echo, as in just like we hire, have them. we made on the economic integration, but also peace in democracy. i mean you, you really pride yourself in this nation and nigeria as being on the use of my will pushing those countries. how are you re presenting it? was the mountains for sure. i'm sure with that in room for how can you like to see me but because of constitutional democracy. okay. where did those values stand in

the face of military cause a stand in the countries like an idea and other stuff continue to avoid them is done with a plus and this is what we will continue to do. we are a democracy and it was, is the community chief way of west african speech, the priority. the focus is on the community of people. so when not just simply to make goods on what foot for now, as we're not going to uh just inbox on some sort of uh, cottage and bloodshed just so that you would say, oh yes, they made good. and there was a left to turn out to for an influence cuz you know, we have seen for an influence on the continent and following, that's a hell cruise and burkina faso. molly new share that began in 2021. we've seen those countries reorient their security partnerships with french and us troops to

now russia. and its proxy is russia is said to have the strategy of driving a wedge between echo us to extend its influence and under cut. the west is that concerning to you and how concerning it's very concerning insights. uh, external interference in general having uh for instance, unless scenarios or a private village companies as a whole or preaching in the region in this a how is, is a great concern to us and this is why we continue to make different magic efforts. it's been, it's been proven to fail when external forces tried to come into f was to solve problems or to create spheres of influence. you can see what an idea was able to achieve in, in, in sarah new own in liberia when it let a per month and restore peace to the elections and the continued under

democratic administration. and this is precisely what we're also doing with the multinational joint task force that is succeeding and the fight against vote for hire. i'm in the lake, said the regents and what quotes and national joint task force is nigeria? it's new share. it's chad. it's kind of, we're going to get to the security issues in this conversation. but 1st i'd just like to ask you because you were recently in russia. you said that you had an interaction with 4 minister laughed ralph, were you given any assurances? you said that you essentially reiterated the importance of unity with an echo us. what did the russians have to say? and they told us that uh, they are fully in support of peace in the region. i believe them, well, i'm a diploma. so no we wait to see what's your biggest fear

we what is the rest of the content of the dougherty? i know probably i trust but verify. so that's what i do. and what do you make of what you're saying? well, i'm watching and we continue our diplomatic efforts spoken as a diplomat. you, you have done that as a journalist. as you have said, that your position and i'm hearing it here as well as one of the strategic autonomy and that you work with all countries. so how much pressure, though, are you under to choose aside when those on the end, because it goes, is normally the 1st time it cetera we, we see countries splitting into blocks, right? the spitting into blocks over ukraine to some extent, there also, you know, splitting the splitting of the box over the, the word that we're seeing on the continent in sudan that's raging. how difficult is it for you to maintain strategic autonomy?

it's always a challenge of governance as a whole. diplomacy, being part of the international community is always difficult because as a student of international relations, i know that the international system isn't and i'm not kick one countries fight. i'm by for the national interests. and because of that it's, it's not a cable. so we're not expecting it to be that you know, country expects that. as we mentioned security challenges a little bit earlier. and i'd like to hit on that now because there are still a tax spike groups like i us and boca her rom and kidnapping for ransom is a huge problem in your country. for example, this year. and i just like to highlight a number of incidents gunman have it deducted at least 150 people in support of the state. um 287 students in doing a 200 people in bore know how can citizens trust your government if you can't

provide the very basic needs for 0 from new york? how many people get shot to new york? well, we're talking about nigeria. well, i wanted to, you know, i'm making the point that, you know, when you try to highlights incidence, every net fixed on every single incident and highlight and you've never even been to the idea or you just told me, you know, of, into africa. so this is stuff you're getting from the into that. so, you know, it doesn't necessarily mean that, that is all that is going on. and the idea in your country that united states, the, the, the, one of the, the, that the, the candidates of the, of the bill of the, the leading patches for the presidential elections was, uh, was she was shocked with stuff that to do. does that mean you highlight that and

just right of the united states of america? i'm just asking you what the majority of life ariens are. i'm just saying as and the here's some calling that's coming out of your, your country. and it says that the majority are of the opinion that you're not doing enough to curb kid not view credit for this one. you can focus of on the negative if you want and create a narrative out of if i want to hear what you're doing. but focus on the positive, so we are a country of 220000000 people's. there will be a acts of violence. there will be conflict with we remain a deliberative democracy. we're making a rapid progress in our nation building in development. and majority of nigerians live in peace. it's been said the extreme poverty, especially in rural areas, has made it easy for geology is to continue recruiting among frustrated. you spoke a rom has been described as still being extremely powerful. no,

that's nonsense. a ton nonsense. okay. i don't know where you're getting that from . i know you get all your information so you have the you've never even been to. you've stamped out the grey homeless. the degree dates have you been able to stay on top of the hotels? you'll have sales or both for her. i'm that still a fridge, but it does not mean they don't control any type of cheese. ok, and so to describe them, i've settled liberia on which we're doing with the more international norm tassels . that's an idea for you. i'd like to turn on what they used to call us both bust it's that was the idea. so another potential flash point for your security. and then i'd like to turn to the, to talk about potential flash point virginia and i. on this stage. we don't have any flashlight. we're having a constructive conversation. okay. um, another potential flash point for your country. i'm on the thank you for not over interrupting me this time around. i think i've flipped it go on fair enough. um,

another potential flash point for and i'd like to talk about another potential flash point for your security is the conflict into down the former prime minister of dollar home doc says that he fears the civil war is quote, fertile ground for the spread of regional terrorism. and do you share that fear? so i do not the only, but i share the fear of the repercussions on idea of because we have about 8000000 some disease that of fine. and i do an extraction so that we have our largest dashboard that is done, which is why, you know, sometimes we wonder why, you know, there's, there's so much to inquire about migration and nigerians, you living in your, for other parts of the world because this, that they've done is all i just dash for and it goes back in history

because of the pilgrimage to mecca and for it was black. um, so um, historically you have lots of nigerians in done so that's why we're getting involved. but unlike other countries, we took our time, we know the terrain. that's why it's always good to work with those know the environment and on the jury. we did not want a situation where we get involved and then were deemed to be taking sides in the conflict was really want a resolution to the so where does your foreign policy put you on this conflict? because it, you know, for those i got to where i, you have the complex is, can you have an idea where junior, we live and running. and if you had a being block, if you're doing filing, your and civilian had been doing your searches from police. you would have seen that uh, only last week i had

a meeting with these. the news for him. been stuff on the margins of the united nations general assembly. so to, so how do you see nigeria as role then in brokering meat actually brokerage solution of yours is media to be the role and using the platform of the african union. okay, because we have seen these diplomatic efforts, and we've seen diplomatic efforts on the part of the us and saudi arabia. we've also seen you said us. yeah, we've also seen regionally. thank you. god, for example, we all right, you tell me all right there. i just had inform you that we have history. we have done, we understand it very well. in fact, lots of nigerians us denise or let us the news and i years. so that's why it's always good to work with those in the neighborhood. so are you making, are you making news here right now? because i just want to say one mind to make me making use one, add a list from your country has said the following. he says that no other country in

africa has what it takes to fill this role to help build the prospects of a lasting piece into down. you're going to be playing a greater role on, on the analysis. are you playing a greater role and brokering the solutions as well as long news we've been saying is mm hm. so we can expect the, how does the copies of what the materials are more well, better yet, please visit my dear visit africa for once. i want to get final. what do you make of the play though, for international in the international power dynamics? cuz this is a complex conflict, right? you know, there is talk of for an involvement. the u. a. e is accused of backing the paramilitary rapids support forces. something that they deny around in egypt are arming the say . have russia is said to be playing both sides, the playing mercenaries? how much of an impact do you see this involvement having?

and how concerning is it to you, or what impacts of yours foreign involvement torn and well therefore for an for an invalid, that's what conflict that's what's uh, is that's a bit of distribution. maybe it was. and that's why when a country like an idea, if you look at the major is approach, the reason why it combines a lot of respects and difference on the african continent is we, i'm on fact name. uh, 1st of all i need was that how much smaller than the nice ok. and it's clear that over the course of history, we do things shortly. i'll do actually with them all for the better interest of africa. that's why a lot of countries refers so much confidence when we come in, as mediators, it's happened going back to the sixties and seventies chad when we were having resolving the working on resolving the conflicts and chad. we had the child

conferences in con, northern parts of an idea, or you wouldn't know, but when you come to nigeria, i'll teach you that was done with mediated there in the past. and that is why nigeria, nigeria said, don't forget, the major is in the countries that has a new permanent seats in the african union, peace and security thoughts. there's a reason for that. i'd like to get a final thought from you about the play for influence in africa a little bit later. but before we go and understand you have limited time. i must ask you about the state of the economy. your government vowed a reset of nigeria is and kind of me instead it's been described as the worst economic conditions in nigeria and 3 decades. inflation, higher the growth vance, your boy towards the national dentist, 6 your workplace. and that's again his prior to starting with the said the old by the way, higher than 3 have the was know your president has just and this actually happened the day he just li patients the or for the last day for patient, you know,

do you really think nigerians have time to wait, as they do yours are very efficient, very understanding and they see what the government is doing and how much progress we're making without micro economical fault reforms. until a company like a band and came a long trip to courage, currency exchange, and so to undermine those micro economic performance by allowing for money a laundry through the platforms which affected our exchange rates i'm into. and so that became a major set up for the my curriculum, but where addressing that were coming most, but i see you apply to the good see. so yeah. tell me, tell me a little bit more about the protests because i mean you have had nationwide protests, you had them in august. you also have them again this week. the ones in august i

visited where, where is the fatal patch in nigeria, it gets overblown. well, we've got a deliberative defense. our ap allow or a rustle of some of their policies. exactly. well, what was actually and that's what i would like to ask you. and so i don't know why in ohio, but there is a prep. the hey, look, visit visit for just an idea. the whole roof is going to cave in how high is the risk thought and the leave it or not shake people's foundation though and not just on us. we are the more glass coffee and with that you have protests in your country, the united states. same way that you have protest care in germany where you live. we also have protests in nigeria. it's a deliberative democracy. people are allowed to voice their opinions and they have freedom of association. they have freedom to express themselves and it should not be different. yeah. from the way that they are the o. d. o,

especially don't live just like a nation, therefore, or look down. every one very quick question. all right, then we have to go and i'd like to ask you about the future, the youth, because you've talked about the moxley in your country and how you have such a strong young population. but a lot of the use are, are saying and are leaving the coverage is active and lots of terms there's, there's also like commercials with jobs. i mine, i mean, send the said this one, but a lot of the use. well, it's estimated the more that more the reason why things where your people have chosen where, where your am over with that website as your officials to i know that you know which websites that's your official stuff which works out events which website voted by bbc the 0 official statistics will be refined, bbc is major is over. so as the turns about the alpha nigerians leaving about the number of new jersey. yeah. yeah. we yeah. which is why we're having the reforms, which is why we uh, we are embarking on which we was should have been discussing what we've done in

terms of what security, what we've done in terms of inclusive between the associate investment programs, the infrastructure develop that is taking place in nigeria, the special economic zones. this is what we should focus more on, instead of just highlighting the negative foreign minister to the thank you so much for your time. we very much appreciate having you on conflicts on from the berlin global dialogue. thank you for the conversation, as always, you've been so wonderful with you again the or the

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