the sounds of power, inspiring story about survival of the home and you go get the tennis. i was the only one who lives in nazi germany. watch now on youtube dw documentary. the nigeria is back said the new president. last year, when he took over the german shapes of the west, african regional block echo a he pledge to boost his country's influence. after years of inward looking administration, economic malaise and security challenges. i spoke about that with the countries for ministry use of to go in a special conflicts down from the berlin global dialogue. how does he see nigeria stepping up with the leadership role when it confronts a domino of crews on its doorstep? foreign powers positioning for an influence on the continent. the conflict into down and citizens leaving nigeria in the face of economic and security, fear. red, your in foreign minister use of took our thank you so much for joining us on

conflicts on from the berlin global dialogue. thank you for having me. let's beginning your region west africa. your government aims to reassert its influence after years of inward looking administrations. but you have this domino of cruise on your door step in this a whole new chair, molly and burkina, faso, all falling to military governments. it's not going to be an easy task, is it is not easy, but you have to look at the root causes of what we're facing today. the on constitution of the changes of government. they are a direct result of the failure of the user head strategy. the direct result of the, um, uh the breaking down of the good that she's uh, raging in uh, in the, in libya they are, of course a direct result of, uh, uh, trying to cubs the migration and the fight against terrorism. and

the fact that nigeria was not included in quite a number of these initiatives. and with those factors in mind, what does it mean for you in actual practice? because you're the big player in echo us. this is the economic community of west african states. it's been key to your influence in the region, and now you have new share, malia and burkina, faso not only withdrawing their membership from eco last, they're also forming their own alliance. the alliance of so health states your zone of instant language shrinking, isn't it? no, it's not. we continue to engage new share. my leave or it's, you know, fossil on other countries. we don't see them. and the thing simply by for noticing that they have left, there is a process of these countries i signature used to the echo us protocol. it's treaties of events. so it takes time in the meantime. we continue with full on diplomatic efforts. don't interrupt me. i know you,

i know you're fond of doing that, the cheap because i'll interrupt you to the cheap. that's that they would. so we continue and you have groupings even within the f plus a community. you've got the manual revise you've got uh we are part of the admin j t f for instance. so there's nothing wrong with having uh such a groupings as being part of uh, of course. so it does not necessarily stand that it means that the standing conflicts with that, but ultimately, i mean, they don't seem as if they're interested in rejoining any time. so well, unfortunately, you'll see, some impossibility of that would be joining in the next 2 to oh yeah, what do we do to make these diplomatic efforts? we're making headway. it's a process. it's not an event when your president took over as chair of act last last year, he said the following, and i'd like to to quote him. he says he would not allow qu after qu in west africa, and that you must not sit in echo s as quote,

toothless bull dogs. and now when we looked at the situation echo, echo has failed to make good on a threat to militarily intervene to stop the coo and new share. because uh, the concern is the is and then the lift is not bang section. then you lifted the sanctions that were intended to pressure up was, is the community has as well since they've become a toothless both the community. so the priority is the people and not the states, not the system of government. and we will make rational decisions just as we did the i, the threats of the use of force was one of several options. and that's a wait for minutes, but you didn't make good on it. so. so the question is, how can you put a view on the net care and age what it was was about what you were looking for now on this is all me him on the keels. i've seen the non was so that's why we did not . well, i'm asking you that because you, you have rational,

i've to have the layout, it evaluated it and decided to wasn't the best thing to do. and the diplomatic efforts to continue. you have these values though, as echo, as in just like we have to have them. we've been on the economic integration but also peace and democracy. i mean, you, you really pride yourself in this nation in nigeria as being a nice and my wish in those countries. how are you representing less than that inspection? sure. with that in room for how can you like to simply move back to cause a constitutional democracy. okay. where did those values stand in the face of military cause a stand in the countries like an idea and other stuff continued to pour them this done with applause. and this is what we will continue to do. we are a democracy and it was, is the communities of west african states, the priority the focus is on the community of people. so when not just

simply to make goods on what for the for knows, we're not going to uh just inbox on some sort of uh, cottage and blood shed just so that you would say, oh yes, they've made good on their what i'd like to turn out to for an influence, cuz you know, we have seen for an influence on the continent and following that's a hell cruise and burkina faso. molly new share that began in 2021. we've seen those countries reorient their security partnerships with french and us troops to now russia. and its proxy is russia is said to have the strategy of driving a wedge between echo us to extend its influence and under cut. the west is that concerning to you, and how concerning it's very concerning. influx, external interference in general, having uh for instance, unless scenarios or a private village companies as a whole or preaching in the region in this a how is, is

a great concern to us and this is why we continue to make a diploma efforts. it's been, it's been forward to fail when external forces try to come into f o us to solve problems or to create spheres of influence. you can see what an idea was able to achieve in, in, in sarah new on, in my very, when it led up to a month and restore the piece to the elections and the continued under democratic administration. and this is precisely what we're also doing with the multinational joint task force that is succeeding and the fight against both will have around uh, in the lakes at the regents and what the national joint task force is. nigeria, it's new share. it's chad. it's kind of, we're going to get to those security issues in this conversation. but 1st,

i just like to ask you because you were recently in russia. you said that you had an interaction with foreign minister, laughed ralph, were you given any assurances? you said that you essentially reiterated the importance of unity with an echo us. what did the russians have to say? and they told us that uh, they are fully in support of peace in the region. i believe then. well, i'm a diploma. so no we wait to see what's your biggest fear we what is when it rushes right on the continent of dougherty, i know poverty, i trust but verify. so that's what i do. and what do you make of what you're saying? well, i'm watching and we continue our diplomatic efforts spoken as a diplomat you, you have that one that as a generalist,

as you have said that your position and i'm hearing it here as well as one of the strategic autonomy and that you work with all countries so how much pressure, though, are you under to choose aside, we're not under any because it goes is normally the pressure on the center. we, we see countries splitting into blocks, right? the spitting into blocks over ukraine to some extent, there also, you know, spitting splitting at the box over the, the war that we're seeing on the continent in sudan that's raging. how difficult is it for you to maintain strategic autonomy? it's always a challenge. governance as a whole, diplomacy being part of the international community. it's always difficult because as a student of international relations, i know that the international system isn't and i'm not kick one countries fight and 5 for the national interests. and because of that it's, it's not a cable. so we're not expecting it to be that you know,

country expects that. as we mentioned security challenges a little bit earlier. and i'd like to hit on that now because there are still attacks by groups like i, us, and boca her rom and kidnapping for ransom is a huge problem in your country. for example, this year. and i just like to highlight a number of incidents gunman have a ducted at least 150 people in support of state um 287 students in doing a 200 people in bar. no. how can citizens trust your government if you can't provide the very basic needs for 0 from new york? how many people get shots in new york? but we're talking about nigeria. well, i wanted to, you know, i'm making the point that, you know, when you try to highlight incidence every, you need to pick on every single incident and highlight i'm, you've never even been to the idea or you just told me, you know, i forgot. so this is stuff you're getting from the into that. so, you know,

it doesn't necessarily mean that that is all that is going on and they do it in your country. that united states, the, the, the, one of the, the, that the, the candidates of the, of the bill of the, the leading patches for the presidential elections was which was shots, will start that to do. does that mean you highlight that and just right of the united states of america? i'm just asking you what the majority of life ariens are. i'm just saying as and there's some calling that's coming out of your, your country. and it says that the majority are of the opinion that you're not doing enough to curb to not view credit for this one. you can focus of on the negative if you want and create a narrative or to read, i want to hear what you're doing. but focus on the positive, so we are a country of 220000000 people's. there will be

a acts of violence. there will be conflict with we remain a deliberative democracy with making rapid progress it on nation building in development. and majority of nigerians live in peace. it's been said the extreme poverty, especially in rural areas, has made it easy for geologists to continue recruiting among frustrated. you spoke a rom has been described, the still being extremely powerful. no, that's nonsense. uptown nonsense. okay. i don't know where you're getting that from . i know you get all your information so you don't have to go to, you've never even been to. you've stamped out the gray homeless, the degree dates. have you been able to stay on top of her else? you'll have fails of both for her. i'm that still a fridge, but it does not mean they don't control any type of truth are ok. so to describe them as, as that is a certain nonsense. well, it's been described by very true need to check other websites. this one that you

downloaded from is the wrong one. okay, well, even if you're able to reduce violence in your country, how are you going to keep it out? let's look at the region more broadly. okay, kathleen poverty, title is have securities of focus on the things that we're doing this and this just as you are doing on just the on food security analyst have said for example, i want to look at one aspect of this because i also said that the crews and molly new share and be for q and a fast, so have largely led to an increase in violence like transnational terrorism. feel a little bit more organized friday due to the collapse of, uh, but how uh, how big of a lower ratio tackle act and lifetime phones. so we're having to do with that the g 5. so i have the prism, but a kinase and i 0 was notified or in comparison to what we will have part of which was more good. but we lead success successfully resettle silvio, and we settled live here and which we're doing with

a more international drug task force. that's an idea for you. i'd like to turn on what they used to call us both busted. that was the idea. so another potential flash point for your security and then i'd like to turn to the talk about potential flash point virginia and i on this stage we don't have enough flash. why? we're having a constructive conversation. okay. but another potential flash point for your country, i'm on the thank you for not over interrupting me this time around. i think i flipped it go on fair enough. another potential flash point for and i'd like to talk about another potential flash point for your security is the conflict in su down. the former prime minister of dollar home doc says that he fears the civil war is quote, fertile ground for the spread of regional terrorism. and do you share that fear, or i do not the only, but i share the fear of the repercussions on idea of

because we have about 8000000 us, denise, that of fine, and i do an extraction. so this, we have our largest dashboard that is done, which is why, you know, sometimes we wonder why you know to so there's so much to inquire about migration. and nigerians, you living in your, for the other parts of the world with us this, that they've done is our largest dash 4. and it goes back in history because of the pilgrimage to mecca on foot on horseback. um, so historically you have lots of nigerians in done so that's why we're getting involved. but unlike other countries we took our time we know the terrain, sweat, it's always good to work with those know the environment from the jury. we did not

want a situation where we get involved and then were deemed to be taking sides and the conflict was really want a resolution to the so where does your foreign policy put you on this conflict to? because you know, for those i got away. i, you have the conflict is, can you have an idea where junior, we went and warning of them and if you had a being blocked, if you're doing filing, your and civilian had been doing your searches properly. you would have seen that uh, only last week i had a meeting with these the news for him and been stuff on the margins of the united nations general assembly. so how do you see nigeria as role then in brokering i mean, typically broker and new solutions, yours is media to be the role and using the platform of the african union. okay. because we have in his diplomatic efforts, and we've seen diplomatic efforts on the part of the us and saudi arabia,

we've also, as you said, us. yeah, we've also seen regionally. thank you. god, for example, we are right. you tell me all right there. i just getting saw you that we have history, we have done, we understand it very well. in fact, lots of nigerians, us and, and he's or let us the news on the years. so that's why it's always good to work with the. ready boys in the neighborhood. so are you making? are you making news here right now? because i just want to say one mind to make me making use one, add a list from your country has said the following. he says that no other country in africa has what it takes to fill this role to help build the prospects of a lasting piece into down. you're going to be playing a greater role on either the wouldn't be able to analysis. are you playing a greater vol and brokering solutions? well, it's not news we've been saying. mm hm. so we can expect the how does talk is what do you mean by that you're able to move? well, let's say it's please visit my jury, visit africa for once. i want to get final. what do you make of the play though,

for international, you know, the international power dynamics, cuz this is a complex conflict, right? and you know, there is talk of foreign involvement. the u. a. e is accused of backing the paramilitary rapids support forces. something that they deny around in egypt are arming. the say of russia is said to be played both sides, the playing mercenaries. how much of an impact do you see this involvement having? and how concerning is it to you? or what impacts of yours foreign involvement horn and well that $44.00 and $4.00 and, but that's what conflict that's what's uh is that should be the distribution made. it was. and that's why when a country like nigeria, if you look at the major's approach, the reason why it combines a lot of respects and difference on the african continent is we on one second. the

1st of all i need was that how much smaller than the nice, okay, and it's clear that over the course of history, we do things shortly. i'll to actually with them all for the better interest of africa. that's why a lot of countries reports so much confidence when we come in, as mediators, it's happened going back to the sixties and seventies chad when we were having resolving the working on resolving the conflict and chad. we had been tied to conferences in con, northern parts of an idea or you wouldn't know, but when you come to nigeria, i'll teach you that was done with mediated there in the past. and that is why nigeria, nigeria said, don't forget, the major is the only countries that has a new permanent seat in the african union. peace and security council is the reason

for that. i'd like to get a final thought from you about the play for influence in africa a little bit later. but before we go and i understand you have limited time. um, i must ask you about the state of the economy. your government vowed or reset of nigeria is and kind of me instead it's been described as the worst economic conditions in nigeria and 3 decades. inflation higher the growth vance, your boy towards the national dentist sticks your words lation. and that's again, inspired with 30 with the said the old by the way, higher than 3 have the was not your president has just and this actually happened the day he just li patients the or for the last the patient you know, do you really think nigerians have time to wait. as they do yours are very efficient, very understanding and they see what the government is doing and how much progress we're making. with the macro economic default reforms, until a company like a brand and scheme, a long trip to courage,

the currency exchange. and so to undermine those microeconomic performed by allowing for money a laundry food, the flats which affected our exchange rate i'm into. and so that became a major set, but for the my curriculum, but we're addressing that we're covering most, but i see you apply to the good. see. so yeah. tell me, tell me a little bit more about the protests because i mean you have had nationwide protests, you had them in august. you also had them again this week. the ones in august i did that. where, where is the fatal patch in nigeria? it gets overblown. well, we got a deliberative defense our app allow or a rental of some of their policies. exactly. oh, what was actually and that's what i would like to ask you. and so i don't know why and i'll hire was there is the, the hey, oh, look, visit visit process and i do the whole roof is going to cave in how high is the risk thought the leave it or not shake people's foundation though and not just on

us, we are the most nascar for him with but you have protests in your country the united states. same way that you have protest care in germany where you live. we also have protests in nigeria, it's a deliberative democracy. people are allowed to voice their opinions and they have freedom of association. they have of freedom to express themselves and you should not be different. yeah. so the way the fuel, especially don't lie just like a nation, therefore, or look down. every one very quick question. all right, then we have to go and i'd like to ask you about the future, the youth, because you've talked about the moxley in your country and how you have such a strong young population. but a lot of the youth are, are saying and um are leading the come towards the term there's. there's also like the commercials with jobs. i mine, i mean, send the said this one, but a lot of the use. well, it's estimated the more that more the reason why things where your people have

chosen, where, where your am over with websites or officials to. i know that you know which websites that's your official stuff. which website events which website quoted by bbc, the 0 official statistics will be refined, bbc is major is over. so as the sand about the firm niger and sleeping about the number of new jersey. yeah. yeah. we yeah. which is why we're having the reforms, which is why we, we are embarking on which we was should have been discussing what we've done in terms of food security. what we've done in terms of inclusive between the associated investment programs, the infrastructure develop that is taking place in nigeria, the special economic zones. this is what we should focus more on instead of just highlighting the negative foreign minister to the thank you so much for your time. we very much appreciate having you on conflicts on from the berlin global dialogue . thank you for the conversation. as always, you've been so wonderful with you again the,

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