just messed things up, christine brain damage. so let's stop this self sabotage. humans and multitasking watch. now on youtube dw documentary this week on the 77 percent street debate may nibble to says blue dies, sorry. all those people have been kidnapped in your family is basic to now my family, keep it, keep people tired. no more, you know around. so that be the cup to stop a tell me that cannot be a solution. so you, you think that it's ok for people to get mad at just so that the solution can be found him daddy's money, give dad his money to can we continue the so and welcome back to the 77 percent st debates this week. we

a back in may. julia's capital, a book now 7500. that's the number of reports of keeping up in cases in a period of one year in this country between june 2023 and july 2024 of us to be some very staggering statistics. the and of course behind every forget is a pressing the people who are going to be speaking to us to be trying to figure out why the situation persist in they do. yeah. and what can be done about it's a start right here with what i know when we talk about can nothing in a do where you might go back to the to book goes and you will actually one of them . it's been 10 years since you were abducted. do you mind telling us what happened to you that did we, i in school these people just come on around the schools and they just tell us that that the so yes, if you miss do you or do you suggest in 9 to yeah. and do comfortable test us,

they just got yours to d sunday software 3. if we spend 3 is for day on we, i just please. well, we have pause and we was to come back to see our parent. and is that up to us that we be missing them or this then we start scabies and we just say is we start quality and he job? yeah, i've tried that. we just spent 2 years or 32 years. and we just do. we don't want the salon again. we want to come back to kingston. yeah. and they, they just tell us that they gave us 3 dis, wait either $1.00 to $2.00 laws or something like that. and we see is we saved that we, we died please then, and they just, these was 3 days of died 3 just after 3 this we, i just sitting down to canon crying that they will for my kid was a nama was 5 people just call me out as you'll see, that the will not be increasing,

they will just follow the most of them on this that 3 in there under of the 2 years, 3 years. and we just really useful. i'm did, did them, does that get to my, the, i'm on us. we just eating on was a full swan. yeah. so you were captured for 3 years. that's obviously a very long time with stuff like you had a very different experience. she was obviously captured by bulk of around they have some very incredible media tons ideologies based on religion. do you know who your cup to is what and what happened to you, wendy? i come back into nice pay off when my guess and i and to when i enter. so does this into window through my to my products. then i saw some one uh plan v. my did. so do i way out in black. lots uh, looking like for lisa, but they provide their faces. uh and what they gotta do um about 18 of

them that got it in a k 47. we spend the whole night very high 3 can do add. yeah. work in between. be here on there. so let me see when britain there so i had them ex, in uh about one of the coverage is there. what is the news about this guy about to use uh, comedy. so it says that uh, the 5th uh you'll see several $150000.00. so i had one of them same size and from there just went to head back and in deficit, from there to, to become sas somehow for me. so i've been with them for with a 15 days because investigation is does between life and date, and the way i just, that's enough. i found some of 500000000 web ex end of that i. i sure that i don't have it. i don't know if my family is having the 100000000 debt to equity. says

that the debt looks like money. ok. we dallas lowe. we assume you coming back to my pharmacy. so. but with for the s i d, i got free back on hand out, but all i understand with them it is those that some need money. now let me, let me ask doctor, ask me this question and i'm really sorry that you both went through that. but of course, the situation that we're talking about here and they, julia, is not unique to these 2. as a matter of fact, let me just see from our audience how many people here knew of someone who was keeping up on news, a friend or a friend of a friend. you know ne julian ok. so you're saying no, ne julian has been unaffected. yeah, but these are 2 very different motivations, right? it would seem like, where does that disparity come from when they decided to, in the case of the kidnappers, for us. so it has started likely as a conflict between hy, this and promise which is normally during the harvest. but at a later time,

it's continue to grow the around 200120022003. i had reported the praises or the position in the position of pumps among the house on i'm on the fly . me. i know it was the house the on the for line you for our audience, we're not familiar with nature frame. uh the for line. yeah, the height is and the house is a trice that has been mixed up by religion. how does mostly the full i need my guns and during the dry season they move from one place to another daughter any season they move from one place to another. ok, so we are clear on who they are and now you're telling me they start to conflict because of grazing lands because of drought. but how does that then become kidnapping when it let time became kidnapping? because of that, i've so many issues i can outline the few lack of social justice to the corruption

among a security person in a story in a black to of the tried to send an institutions to have a kind of responsibility a so does the responsibility the issues of managing their grades and months, both tried to show in the personalities or in a lead us. they started selling those grades in the car gurus and lunch to the promise. so how does have no identity? did you just show it to somebody that did i become so crossed because of the level of corruption, ok, instructional portion and so on us. okay, so just to i made to the, let me just pause there because because it's a huge and very complicated history. but i think we get the gist of it and you've talked about the security forces and their response to that. obviously when we're talking about kid, nothing, you'd expect to find a, put a uniformed police officer here. we actually had one. and they actually came right up here to a venue, but at the very last minute when they had that it was a debate they chose not to participate. regardless of that, you still depend on the police officers, halima,

and one of your relatives was also keeping up. and i'm just trying to find out as a family when you hear the news, what it was, the 1st thing that you did. sorry, i know this is a very difficult topic. we called people i don't think that so the dyslexia to have gone there to to rescue the team. my oldest is awesome. go down to katrina to was special and such of my sister when they get into found that found out that she's not how long to put a risk. you know, once in such a high in the much, what is the hosp to, to check if the victim endorsement to anybody who should be among them. so we're planning to bring to go to show the direction where she is. i think it was 2 days later i that they could not pass called house event until that i you

so as a person. so i was once you said, yes, it's a go to your wi fi, your child is on the look up to read this. so at this point, have they given you any indication of what they want in return for them? no, no. they've just said we have them nothing else. yes, yes. it was moved to after 2 weeks. the cold. the fact the call just as this is what the one from the government the government should release the people for them. if the people that went to free people for us, the next call again, is that's decided to monday for us on a 100000000. unfortunately, these was week to us perfectly, don't get the amount those positive so they'll be due on the official media. how do a flogging them my treating them in the bush,

all of the shots and crying on the nest in the lead off. come up aside. she's given the governments us with that you've the don't call to give them what the ones that they're going to slow to all of them. so we don't have any needs. we don't have any option dodge, we have to call all the family members for us to form a group informing group. phyllis, good to meet at the means of transportation for the products. so when we, when we met them, we'll ask please, this is what view procedure are doing is the government is to be working on, on the remaining victims. and you say you're watching the government is watch anything that on this new way i know happy about this. okay, so i'll come back to you so that we know how the story was resolved. but before we go too far, i want to come to joshua because we're hearing some very scary things here. yeah. why people? so there being, why has this problem continued persistently for so long?

we're talking about 10 years since how well there was sticking. the bottom line is money. it's the money making venture is a criminal enterprise and it's extremely decreasing for those that engage in that. yeah, but it's not easy. is it because you have to walk somebody in the middle of the night until an unknown destination? you need people to keep them there. you need to feed these people. where are they getting the funding from? well, the funding don't forget that there's an ongoing enterprise. so for example, you this, that small undergraduate into a bigger groups and, and more yeah, got the victims, the more money to make. just like she said, if for example, they have 10 presence in cub tv on the gets that maybe 10 medium, each $1800000000.00, a huge amount of money will be that they can use it for chrome or arms with that. so they can use to recruit more kidnappers into definitely into default, and we've had to kind of get more people here. um, let me come back to doctor admit here because when you look at how dia the

situation is, is at the moment, would you say that it's the inability of the politicians, or is it the inability of the police to get down to the bottom of this none of these guys use a folder in their parents on, on the default settings on, on, on everybody's when i say everybody including myself on all the institutions that you can name them as security is additions, most of these guys. so the question is, what have we been doing that most of them all of them intently then know 12 to 3000 number. so yes, of course you know exactly what behind it, those who are cutting the ups. but because of the infiltration of ability of the government to do that, i think because of the level of crushing, a negligence because of the intent of support is because of the escrow for those elements. because of the lack of the understanding of the community, the issue of security is not that as well. so we need to have the government in them and he's not that is supposedly to or fully this community president who are

trying to secure or to kind of so and so on and so forth. would you because the criminals are taking advantage of the divided mindset and invited to institution that trustworthy but we have, let me ask the stuff here. question just so i know you want to say something. i'll come back to you and talk to i make a saying that the people who do these things, they are known, they live in the same villages as us. they are all family members. they are friends of friends. do you know who was behind your kid? nothing and how they've been brought to just i don't know anybody, but most of the problem up to can nothing that is happening. when that happened in at home daddy's side informed us. some could be a movie on of but nibble's some could be for the, for, for sofa issue of business or something as maybe they might need something from you . in my own case, i said to all right, let me ask color here because your case was international. you publicized everybody

around the globe was trying to find the 2 book goals, but there are still some who will have been held in captivity despite what's the government did. and despite towards the international community tried, do you feel that it was enough? no, it's not. you've, i'm to ask you them for i'll ask each does do day for 10 is have to know this to day and they will be the woman to reduce or assist us to cause he's painful for us have to now if i remember i'm to clients, i do know where the uh, where this to i and the way i knew he had a woman is talking about them. i can do this, this pin for, for me. do you think that the government has forgotten about the remaining goals? yes, i can. so. okay. uh so joshua, let me come back to you because it's a bit of a chicken and egg situation, right? because when does it stop? i mean, i know there's a lawyer in this country that binds payments over on some. but what does the family

need to do when the loved one has been taken? uh, i think is quite the human eye to criminalize russ on payments not on the hills, that the security agencies are slow right on. 2 factors are responsible, essentially for white kid not being for us on the striving and 19 i think we need to get the conversation very correctly. number one is the fact that named you is a cash based economy. now what do you use to pay for run some? well, i would imagine if you're a clever kid now, but not a digital currency. yes. in 2023 doing cost base transaction with about 52 percent. now what happened is because of the government on the relevant authorities as the meat investments in digital banking infrastructure. now, once you, you caught the sauce. once you ensure that the economy, the use of caution, that companies reduce it better as minimum the business. so i'm going to create a variable because no keeping up, i want to take money by, by wire,

by bank transfer or anything because it will be true. so, so long that this cash in the society, the issue of keeping up being is no good any we send. all right. now the last time we still have lima, we were asking about what your family did in order to get to your sister. and you tell me that you will eventually able to raise the around some, what impact did that have on on you'll find me a surprise. so hard whenever to raise the price of one for the protest, we were a big into government please. the address of the proven though, we don't have the amount uh asking for go by should try and do something please the okay. by federal care. wish you go that they'll get back to us. we ran, there was no call nothing, nothing. we didn't hear anything from them to have cut out was

think going to several months, 7 months. wow. so this is a very long process, the to going back and forth. not really knowing what's going to happen. so how did you eventually get to a system back to mercedes by a good race without being any run. so that's good. i don't know that is between them and the government. so how lima, the telling us the story of her family. but i'm just curious to hear from the people at the back. you know, how has kids that being affected? you guys in your villages in your homestead? let me hear from some people at the back. please, i am leaving maybe later before. 2018 is duties in dyke one but we are staying now with joe. it's l. i see it a because you know, i'd village with dive save. most of some people know even may nibble see says, blue dies banking up doing well. go sees these e, sorry. all those people have been kidnapped in your family. yes. basic and that my

family. thank you, my uncle, full. izzy. it lacks, let's see in the plan. yes, we are assisting a lot so you know i'd be lead. okay. does anybody else have a similar experience? are you able to go back to your villages and feel safe? no, i can go up to my village and you'll see 40 a now will yet every n u a go everywhere the see to i used to feel safe because that a lot of community by center here. that's why, but in the village, most of the places and let's see. so we're talking about here, the economic impact and no psychological impact. and i wanted to ask you how, you know, it's been 10 years since the original kid not being 7 years since you were released . would you say that you've gotten over the trauma? i wonder if that's even an appropriate question? yes, i'm to scan because as to call me to our police, he's the vocal high up to now. sometimes

a confused stay at home safe because of the if i have one that goes to 2 and a up to now about my suicide guns. if we get to the o s floating was and so time we can get food to eat. that them, that we are in custody. these one want we do it for this one. you what and some of the food that we, i get to me to do it when these people up to know the, to a student a few days as well. so as we were speaking, i notice that it's very difficult for you to express yourself when it comes to this, the government, or for any support. it's sold to your family and your sister after the fact. no, not at all. okay, let me ask you most of the same question because, you know, being taken from your home, that's something very, very personal. what have you done to sort of come back to full psychological health if you have uh, during the day to be there it was uh, to attempt trauma. and uh,

when i come back i was uh to be in the hospital and even while uh, coming out of the hospital, i used to have a lot of, uh, a discussions or a lot of things for them. my family, especially id my wife. she says that i see so so, so what, which i don't know i, you've been saying that. so with that for, for us i was a high high thoughts are 5 types of eyes. i close you kind of problem with the purpose of that getting nothing because the kind of a to say so in that bleach i had, but in that, in that bush i to says the 5 to, i wouldn't be, has he been for the 1st and that freeze or wishing me or someone who made me saying that he's praying for my dad. i am not waiting for him to have so kind of chrome. i that tankers in my life. yeah. doctor, i've made when will stuff i speaking here. you're shaking your head and obviously these a rooms that you be privy to because you no longer do this,

but you want to go see a thing the release of these people. how difficult is it for the families who it is quite difficult because i can see that in 11 years old they have, i was able to conduct 84 negotiations. i only succeeded in one when you say succeed, what does success look like in that field? i was able to facilitate the process for leasing 35 people at this time, but a detour at the federal. all right, now we've been talking about kidnapping, but i haven't mentioned yet. the cost of life yet is also very high. it's estimated that for every one keeping up being attempt, there is one desk that follows it. so let me hear a few more solutions from the people here. what do you think needs to be done in order for this to become a problem of the past? so that like julia is no longer dealing with this, i see your hand up. that was top, payne did,

i'm some complete to me. it keeps people tired, no money, nor around. so maybe they will have to stop. but tell me that cannot be a solution. ok, so you, you think that it's okay for people to get mad just so that the solution can be filed if not so how much are we going to spend in the paintings? i'm so long. some people you paid on the community. okay. do i see joshua's hands up? i think he wants to respond to this and we'll stuff or let me come to you 1st. you say, you know what, in order to ease the burden on your family, it's may be better if you had been cute. i'm in support of that because as a product you, people are taking money to this uh, kid. now for us, this get, nothing would not the end. but uh daddy see we can try you to this uh, this entered in mountain view. uh, and in the run or a victim into handled by a kid. now, if us lucky slave at the government should come, i would buy confed,

stating that family at least actually lives with a minimum of at least a $5000000.00 because we have money is better to use them by fee and the, the board if i'm a new of the big gym, so when does that less? because m dad his money give dad his money to cologne would continue. uh okay. i have to say, i'm very surprised that you are leaning towards that. uh, how do you my, let me come to you before i finish. joshua told me what he said. it's a note to me that also i'm the going to give the family will live, bring back the person to kill. and he's gone blinking back. but uh, looking at the people that they use to keep looking at the situation without the flight, then i do don't want to know that people that i go into is better. we do feed around. so down to take it as one mean as want me to time i was good enough, but i did. this is into position that that would not come back because lives fund

or for me, i live in the desk, comes to the end as well done me. so i wouldn't come back, but i do money. they will give to my family probably to be able to see something to do to my children. let me, let me, let me come back to what is the person just industry to give the funding to the last one is the burden of the family. like now that didn't, you'll you, you came back to a family or, you know, provide you for your family, but it was the government continue to provide for that family that i believe your, you don't know what government is. do you the press the key. yeah. was much and as to when he is go you i do see a new way to stop this. keep nothing footboards, lead the government in order with disabilities x that is motor id. to do the work by step in this, i could not be in the make it a way, or if i get to money that make it as the will 546 because that is 46. now, in the security set, to remind you that let me,

let me close this up with joshua because we're hearing of us me some very radical solutions from 2 people who enjoyed the keep that being in one way or another. final thoughts um for you to say stop payment of rent, so please be aware. it's because once your, your 5 though your mother or really to just kidnap your sense of judgment is automatically impaired. you're not thinking about what the government is saying. what comes to your mind is how do i get my religion out? so i'm not show anybody kind of relates we, there's a lot that sees that if you p run some, yes, up your library for 50 a do it to him because it will make sense because i've got an ideal situation. i expect the government to put words into action to ensure that run some payment is reduced. it cannot be stopped. so for you to and not to law by coming by saying ok, it's federal need for you to verify some. the fees come on sense for me. yeah. all right, so we asked what sounded like a very simple question at the beginning of this debate. what is causing the problem

of kidnapping? hearing a julia very key effect as elaborated. how can you stop that? not so clear on that myself would love to hear from you, but for now. thank you all for watching the the, the

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guides. know that way around is strictly scientific trip to some pretty cheap places. curiosity is we tried tomorrow today. in 90 minutes on d w. the same, i feel the same way you expect and harness different things from life when your parents i just want to pursue was that's my thought. or you think your kid is 2 different, risky, irresponsible, reasonable stop in port is this nonsense? i was under the doctor,

joe in the clubs. it's time to get from your generation with a sleep asked and then when generations to mash watch now on the 10 dw, don't you mentioned this kind of fun. it feels like therapy, enjoying the views, and come to take a look at this. tv highlights me every week. email inbox, subscribe now. oh d, w, travel low, they're destroyed. phase 3, food, honest with inside it, just local high life. wow. let's go. here we go. so when it comes to sustainability information and try and do that, when you travel, you can have it all on expected. okay. it has to check the bags. so you're planning a trip to make sure you miss nothing about is on the w travel. i hope you enjoy the

trip here as much as i do about you. what's your opinion? feel free to write your thoughts and the comments the. this is d, w and use live in berlin. islam is fighters advance and a surprise offensive in northern syria. revel units enter the 2nd biggest city of a level, hundreds are reported dead in battles with government forces. also coming up protesters class police 4 seconds night in georgia as anger rose over the suspension of talks and joining the european union. the american.