if i'm afraid, i'll never see him again. no, when, oh, you lost under the stops december 18th on d. w. the this week on the 77 percent street debate may nibble to says below that, sorry, all those people have been kidnapped in your family. yes, they 60 now my family, keep it, keep people tired. no more. you know that i'm so busy the help to stop a tell me that cannot be a solution. so you, you think that it's ok for people to get mad that just so that the solution can be found him daddy's money, give dad his money to can we continue the so and welcome back to the 77 percent strict debate this week. we

a back in may. julia's capital, a buddha? now 7500. that's the number of reports of kidnapping cases in a period of one year in this country between june 2023 and july 2024 of us to be some very staggering statistics. the and of course behind every forget is a pressing the people who are going to be speaking to us, to the trying to figure out why the situation persist in they do. yeah. and what can be done about it's a start right here with how well i know when we talk about kid, nothing in a do or you might go back to the 2 book goals and you will actually one of them. it's been 10 years since you were abducted. do you mind telling us what happened to you that did that? yeah. in school these people just come on around the schools and they just tell us that that the so yes. so you miss, do you or do you suggest a 9 to yeah. and do come to protest us. they just got yours to d, sunday,

software 3. if we spend 3 is for there on we, i just please. well, we have pause and we was to come back to see our parent and is that up to us that we be missing them or this. then we start scabies, and we just say is we start quality and the job here of that that we just spent 2 years or 32 years. and we just do. we don't want the salon again. we want to come back to christine. yeah. and did they just tell us that they gave us 3 dis wait either $1.00 to $2.00 laws or something like that. and we see is we said that when we die, please then and they just use those 3 days of time. we just have that 3. this we, i just sitting down to clients that day when, when my kid was on, i'm on us 5 people just call me out. they just said that they would not be

increasing. they would just follow the most of them. and is that 3 in the day of the 2 years, 3 years, and we just we these for them to and did them. does that get to my the i'm on us. we just eating on what was the full 6 months. yeah. so you were captured for 3 years. that's obviously a very long time with stuff you had a very different experience. she was obviously captured by bulk of around we have some very incredible media tons ideologies based on religion. do you know who your cup does what and what happened to you, wendy? i come back into nice. uh, i opened my gift and i and uh, when i enter, so does this in the window or through my to my products. then i saw someone uh plain view. my did so do i way out in black. lots uh, looking like for lisa, but they provide their faces. uh and what they have to do um,

about 18 of them there. i got it in 18. 47. we spend the whole night very high, tre can do add. yeah. work in between. be here and there. so let me do in britain there. so i had them ex, in uh, about one of the cost is there. what is uh, the news about this guy about to use uh, comedy. so it says that uh, the 5th uh, you'll see several $150000.00. so i had one of them same size, and from there i just went to head back in, in jefferson from there to, to become sas somehow for me. so i've been with them for with that 15 days because uh, investigation is between life and date. and the way i just, that's enough, i found some by 500000000. well accident of that i. i said that i don't have it. i don't know if my family is having the 100000000 debt to equity. says that it looks

like money do. okay. we dallas know, we assume you coming back to me, i found it so, but with for the s i d and i got the back on hand out, but all i understand with them or is those that some need money. now let me, let me ask dr. ask me this question and i'm really sorry that you both went through that. but of course the situation that we're talking about here and they, julia, is not unique to these 2. as a matter of fact, let me just see from our audience how many people here knew of someone who was keeping up a news, a friend, or a friend of a friend. you know ne julian ok. so you're saying no, ne julian has been unaffected. yeah, but these are 2 very different motivations, right? it would seem like, where does that disparity come from when they decided to, in the case of the kidnappers, for us. so it has started likely as a conflict between hy, this and promise which is normally during the harvest. but at a later time,

it's continue to grow the around 200120022003. i had reported the praises or the position in the position of pumps among the house on i'm on the fly . me. i know it was the house, the on the for line you for a little audience when not somebody that with need to find uh the for line. yeah. the hi. this and the house is a tribe that has been mixed up by religion. how does mostly the for any of my guns and during the dry season, they move from one place to another dollar any season. they move from one place to another. ok, so we are clear on who they are and now you're telling me they start to conflict because of grazing lands because of drought. but how does that then become kidnapping when it let time you can keep nothing because of that. i've so many issues i can outline the few lack of social justice to the corruption among

a security person in a story in the ability to of the tried to send an institution to have a kind of responsibility a so those are responsibility. the issues of managing their grades and months, both try to show in the personalities or in a lead us. they started selling those grades in the car gurus and lunch to the promise. so how does have no identity? did you just have something that did i become so collapsed because of the level of corruption, okay. is solution impulsion and so on us. okay, so just to i've made to that, let me just pause there because because it's a huge and very complicated history. but i think we get the gist of it and you've talked about the security forces and their response to that. obviously when we're talking about kidnapping, you'd expect to find a put a uniform police officer here. we actually had one. and they actually came right up here to a venue, but at the very last minute when they had that it was a debate they chose not to participate. regardless of that, you still depend on the police offices, halima,

and one of your relatives was also keeping up. and i'm just trying to find out as a family when you hear the news, what it was, the 1st thing that you did. sorry, i know this is a very difficult topic. we called people, i don't think that so the dyslexia to have gone there to to rescue the team. my oldest and thoughts and go down to katrina to one sessions in search of my sister when they get a default that found out that she's not how long to put to rescue the once in such a high in the much what is the hosp to to check in the victim endorsement to anybody who should be among them. so we're punitive and praying to go to show the direction where she is. i think it was 2 days later i they could not pass

called house bunt and told that i use. so is a person, so i was once he said, yes, it's a go to your wi fi, your child is on the walk up to where it is. so at this point, have they given you any indication of what they want in return for them? no, no, they've just said we have them nothing else. yes, yes. it was moved to after 2 weeks. the called the fact they're called just as this is what the one from the government the government should release the people for them. if the people that went to free people for us, the next call again, is that's decided to monday for us on a 100000000. unfortunately, these was quick to us perfectly. don't get the amount those plus the v do on the additional media. how do a plug in them? my treating them in the bush,

all of the shots and crying on the nest in the lead off. come up aside. he's given the government is this would it that you've the don't call to give them what the ones that they're going to slow to all of them. so we don't have any needs. we don't have any option dodge, we have to call all the family members for us to form a group informing group, phyllis, god, i mean, it's the means of transportation for the products. so we, when we, when we met them, we'll ask please, this is what the new procedure doing government is to be working on, on the remaining victims. and you say you're watching the government is walk in is in that on this new way. i know happy about this. okay, so i'll come back to you so that we know how the story was resolved. but before we go too far, i want to come to joshua because we're hearing some very scary things here. yeah. why people? so there being, why has this problem continued persistently for so long?

we're talking about 10 years since how well there was sticking. the bottom line is money. it's the money making. venture is a criminal enterprise and it's extremely to create to, for those that engage in that. yeah. but it's not easy. is it because you have to walk somebody in the middle of the night and to an unknown destination. you need people to keep them there. you need to feed these people wherever you're getting the funding from. well, the funding don't forget that is an ongoing enterprise. so for example, you this, that small undergraduate into a bigger groups and the more the got the victims, the more money to make, just like she said, if for example, they have $10.00 presence incompatibility and the gets that may be tend to be on each of the $100000000.00. a huge amount of money will be that they can use for chrome or arms with that. so they can use to recruit more kidnappers into definitely into default. and we've had to kind of get more people here. let me come back to dr. mit here because when you look at how dia, the situation is,

is at the moment, would you say that it's the inability of the politicians, or is it the inability of the police to get down to the bottom of this? none of these guys is a folder in their parents on. therefore parents are known and everybody's what i say everybody, including myself on all the institutions that you can name them as security is additions, most of these guys. so the question is, what have we been doing that most of them all the internally, they're not up to 3000 number to yes, of course not. so if you were behind it, those who are cutting the ups. but because of the infiltration of ability of the government to do that, i think because of the level of crushing, a negligence because of the intent of support is because of the old school for those elements. because of the lack of the understanding of the community, the issue of security is not that as well. so we need to have the governmental and he said that it supposedly to fully this community president who are trying to

secure or to kind of so on. so on and so forth, would you because the criminals are taking advantage of the divided mindset and invited to institution that trustworthy. but we have, let me ask the stuff here question just so i know you want to say something. i'll come back to you and talk to i make a saying that the people who do these things, they are known, they live in the same villages as us. they are all family members. they are friends of friends. do you know who was behind your kid? nothing and how they've been brought to just i don't know anybody, but most of the problem up to can nothing that is happening. one that teresa happening at home daddy's informed us some could be a movie or no, but nibble's some could be for the for, for sofa issue of business or something as maybe they might need something from you . in my own case, i said to all right, let me ask color here because your case was international. you publicized everybody

around the globe was trying to find the 2 book goals, but there are still some who have been held in captivity despite what the government did. and despite towards the international community tried, do you feel that it was enough? you know, it's not you've, i'm to add to them for our see if that's do day for 10 is up to now this to day and there will be the will man to reduce or assist us because he's painful for us have to now if i remember i'm to clients, i do know where the uh, where that is to i and the way i knew he had a woman is talking about them. i can do this the spin for, for me. do you think that the government has forgotten about the remaining goals? yes, i think so. okay, uh so joshua, let me come back to you because it's a bit of a chicken and egg situation, right? because when does it stop? i mean, i know there's a lawyer in this country that binds payments over on some. but what does the family

to do when the loved one has been taken? i think is quite the human to criminalize run some payments on the heels that the security agencies us low. right on. 2 factors are responsible, especially for white kid not being for us on the striving and 19, and i think we need to get the conversation very correctly. number one is the fact that mind you is a cash based economy. now what do you use to pay for run some? well, i would imagine if you could have a kid, napa, not a digital currency. yes. in 2023. it don't cost base transaction with about 52 percent. now what happened is because the government, under relevant authorities, as the meat investments in digital banking infrastructure, now, once you, you caught the sauce once you ensure that the economy, the use of caution to companies reduce it to various minimum the business. so i'm going to create a variable because not keeping up, i want to take money by,

by wire, by bank transfer or anything because it'll be a trip. so, so long that this cash in the society, the issue of keep not being is no going any. we soon right now the last time we saw halima, we were asking about what you finally did in order to get to your sister. and you tell me that you will eventually able to raise around some, what impact that have on on you'll find me a surprise, so hard never to raise the price of one for the protest, we will begin to government please. the address of the people though, we don't have the amanda skin for go by should try and do something please. the okay, the federal care wish you go that don't get back to us. we went, there was no call nothing, nothing. we didn't hear anything from them to have cut out was

think going to several months different months. wow. so this is a very long process that you're going back and forth, not really knowing what's going to happen. so how did you eventually get to your system back to mercedes by a good race without being any run. so that's good. i don't know that is between them and the government. so halima the telling us the story of her family, but i'm just curious to hear from the people at the back. you know, how has keeps up being affected. you guys in your villages in your homestead? let me hear from some people at the back. please. i am leaving maybe later before 2018 is do the same day come, but we are staying. you know, we jo, it's l i c a. because you know, i'd village where dive save. most of some people know, even may nibble see says, blue dies banking up doing well. go sees these e, sorry. all those people have been kidnapped in your family is basic and that my

family. thank you, my uncle, full izzy. it lacks, let's see. in the flash, yes, we have to swing and load. see now i'd be leads. okay. does anybody else have a similar experience? are you able to go back to your villages and feel safe? no, i can go up to my village and you'll see 48 hours yet every n u a go everywhere, the seats. i used to feel safe because that a lot of really cheap as soon as i hear that. so i but in the village, most of the places and let's see. so we're talking about here, the economic impact and now psychological impact. and i wanted to ask you how, you know, it's been 10 years since the original kid not being 7 years since you were released . would you say that you've gotten over the trauma? i wonder if that's even an appropriate question? yes, i'm to scan because as to call me to our police, he's the vocal high up to now. sometimes

a confused stay at home safe because of the if i have one that goes to 2 and a up to now about my suicide guns. if we get to the o s floating was and so time we can get food to eat that them, that we are in custody. these one want we do it for this on you. what and some of the food that we, i get to me to do it when these people up to now does to i was in a few days as well. so as we were speaking, i notice that it's very difficult for you to express yourself when it comes to this . does the government offer any support that's sold to your family and your sister after the fact? no, not at all. okay, let me ask you most of the same question because, you know, being taken from your home, that's something very, very personal. what have you done to sort of come back to full psychological health if you have, i don't have that to be there. it was to attempt trauma and when i come back i was

to be in the hospital and even while coming out of the hospital i used to have a lot of a discussions or a lot of things for them. my family, especially id my wife. she says that i see so so, so what, which i don't know i, you've been saying that. so for that for, for us i was at the high, high totes, are 5 and come so fast. i close you kind of problem for the purpose of that give nothing because the kind of a to say so in that pledge had but in that, in that bush that says the fact i wouldn't be, has he been for different that freeze or wish me or someone who made me saying that he's praying for my dad. i am not waiting for him to have so kind of chrome i that tag cause in my life. yeah. doctor, i've made when will stuff i speaking here you are shaking your head and obviously these are rooms that you be privy to because you no longer do this,

but you want to go see a thing the release of these people. how difficult is it for the families who it is quite difficult because i can see that in 11 years old they have, i was able to conduct 84 negotiations. i only succeeded to one when you say succeed, what does success look like in that field? i was able to facilitate the process up for a lease in 35 people at this time, but a detour rather than photographed. all right now we've been talking about keep nothing, but i haven't mentioned yet. the cost of life yet is also very high. it's estimated that for every one keeping up being attempt, there is one desk that follows it. so let me hear a few more solutions from the people here. what do you think needs to be done in order for this to become a problem of the past? so that night julia is no longer dealing with this. i see your hand up. that was

top payne did, i'm some complete to me. it keeps people tired, no money nor around. so maybe they will have to stop. but tell me that cannot be a solution. ok, so you, you think that it's okay for people to get mad just so that the solution can be filed if not so how much are we going to spend in the paintings? i'm so long. some people you paid on the community. okay. do i see joshua's hands up? i think he wants to respond to this and most of the let me come to you 1st. he say, you know what? in order to ease the button on your family, it's may be better if you had been cute. i'm in support of that because as a product you, people are taking money to this uh, kid. now for us, this kid, nothing would not. and but uh daddy see we can try you to this uh, this entered in mountain view. uh. and if any one or a victim into a 100 by kids, enough us lucky slave at the government should come,

i would buy content stating that family, at least at least with a minimum of at least a 5000000 because we have money is better to use them by fee and the, the board if i'm a new of the big gym, so when does that less? because give dad his money. give dad his money to cologne with continual. uh okay. i have to say, i'm very surprised that you are leaning towards that. how do you my, let me come to you before i finish? joshua told me what he said. it's a note to me that also i'm going to give the family will live, bring back the person to kill. steve can bring him back. but to looking at the people that they used to kids look in deep tuition without flight, then i didn't. what do you know that people william true is better? we do feed around. so down to take it as one mean? i just want me to time i was getting enough, but i did. this is into position that that will not come back because lives fund or

for me i live in the desk comes to the end. so that means i wouldn't come back, but i do monday they will give to my family probably to be able to see something to do to my children. let me, let me, let me come back to what is the person just industry to give the funding to the last one is the burden of the family. like now that didn't, you'll you, you came back to a family or, you know, provide you for your family, but it was the government continue to provide for that family that i believe your, you don't know what government is. do you the press the key. yeah. was much and as to when he is go you i do see a new way to stop this kidnapping footboards lead the government in order with disabilities x that is motor id. to do the work by step in this, i could not be in the make it a way of getting money that make it as the will 546 because that is uh, 46. now, in dispute or to set to remind you that let me,

let me close this up with joshua because we are hearing of us me some very radical solutions from 2 people who enjoyed the keep that being in one way or another. final thoughts um for you to say stop payment of rent, so please be aware it's because once i am your, your 5 though your mother or really to just kidnapped, your sense of judgement is automatically impaired. you're not thinking about what the government is saying. what comes to your mind is how do i get my religion out? so i'm not show anybody kind of relates we, there's a lot that sees that if you p run some, yes. so you are liable for 50 a do it to him because it will make sense because i've got an ideal situation. i expect the government to put words into action to ensure that run some payment is reduced, it cannot be stopped. so for you to and not to law by coming by saying ok, it's funny for each for us on the face. come on sense for me. you. all right, so we asked what sounded like a very simple question at the beginning of this debate. what is causing the problem

of kidnapping? hearing a julia very key effect as elaborated. how can you stop that? not so clear on that much. i would love to hear from you, but for now. thank you all for watching the, the, the

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