me to become a civil service, but i didn't like the idea of getting such an old fashioned job and being stuck with dreams coming through making money, having a son with non fools injunction dots, december 13th on d, w. the so is looking into a new future after the sudden ousting of president bashar assad. less than 2 weeks after launching and offensive revel fights is now in charge of the capital of damascus. and the former leader has fled to moscow. the situation is still very much in flux from the countries the future direction. uncertain. the lead revel drew based on the un tearing base, but syrians have welcomed them as liberates as freedom. the country for 5 decades of brutal repression. i feel go and lead. and this is the day the

for how much they describe the full joy after 14 years of being away from us, probably in our country. but coming back with our heads held high, the we're very happy after the for the shuttle aside, make good raises open forever. not afraid to say it the also on the day serial and rebels, free prisoners from the side and i a jail seen by many as a matter for, for by shot sides police states. we were living in a big prison, the big prison that was syria. you want me to, if it's being 50 years, jordan, which we couldn't speak nor express ourselves,

nor express all worries that anyone who spoke out was maintained in prisons. as you saw and said, naya naya, welcome to the day sir. and rebel leaders are starting to rest the control much closely by the international community. i believe that having the so called joins in milledgeville operations come onto that, the light which led to lightning offensive against the outside of a shame. as a matter of outgoing the outgoing prime minister in damascus, mohamad al gilani has dropped the number associated with these jihad is awesome. so it's now using his real name. i was shot on his tried to bolster his legitimacy by presenting, it will moderate the public image of sophie serious parliament, which like the prime minister, was pro aside says it supports the people's will to build a new future. well, that looked like is unclear, but many sit inside. it can only get better. some damascus streets are covered

in bullet casings, not from sight seeing that, but from enjoy seeing over the fall of the unsolved received the date. the syrians are looking forward to a new era. i have an idea i came out today and thank cult, there's no fear. there's nothing to be scared of. everything is okay in the country 2nd. so i'll just hope the economy gets back on track and everything will be okay. rebel forces are patrolling the capital, the street. they are expecting many syrians leaving abroad to return home soon. the costs of serious population left the country during the civil war. many are now returning for the 1st time in years. like here on the 11 east folder. check points on the syrians side are abandoned the, well,

these people are returning home. lebanon says some also trying to leave syria, given the uncertainty about how the current situation will unfold. the leading rebel force behind a thoughtful for ya talk to you on some or h t. s. is considered a tara organization by subaru. western countries, as the group is now trying to present itself in the more moderate lights, some countries are reconsidering the stones towards it. the european union, however, made clear the european union is not apparently engaging with h t s or its leaders for stop. however, let me finish with this as h t. s. takes on greats or responsibilities we, we need to assess not just the words, but also the actions. and the united nation says crime is committed during the

civil war must be addressed. any political transition must ensure accountability for perpetrators of serious violations and guarantee that those responsible i have to account one day after the fall of the subject. she, it's how to say what direction the country will take the international communities now closely watching developments in syria. but among the uncertainty, the prevailing mood and syria is one of hope and joy. will professor steven high demand holds a catch him chad in mid least that is at smith college in the united states. he's also a non resident senior fellow at the brookings institution center for middle east policy, and he joins us from washington. welcome to d. w. professor, you cautiously optimistic now that aside is gone. i am cautiously optimistic. it's been quite striking how smoothly the very early days of this transition have

gone in in syria, a h t s, and its partners and the operation that over through us that are making all the right noises about responsiveness to the concerns of minorities. they're moving to maintain public order in damascus and other major cities. they have offered assurances to the other we, minority to christians, that they are safe, secure, and that their lives will not be interfered with during this transition. so from everything we've seen, the, the 1st few days of what's happened since the fall of us. i have have been actually quite remarkable in how smoothly things are going. we have the 5 minutes to talking about a doing the transition to a government chosen by the people. so this will be the next tricky bit of this transition. do you think that that will actually happen as well? if we reach a point at which syrians are able to participate in choosing

a new government through elections is likely to take some time before we get there . there are huge numbers of a huge number of issues that have to be dealt with well in advance of, of, of the possibility of holding elections. we need to imagine some form of interim governing authority and merging. there has to be a process of constitutional reform. they'll have to be some opportunity for syrians to become acquainted with what a democratic system looks like and how it operates for parties to form and all of that. and we'll take some time. so it's entirely possible that syrians will be able to participate in shaving or future government, but it's not something that i would look to as a very quick next step. it still does take a quick look at some of a potential repercussions of this move regional and father failed. and i'm, can we start when it's likely effect on iran,

which helped to prop up the sides regime that well around has suffered a number of fairly significant blows in, in the past 10 days, 2 weeks and even longer it's position has been severely weakened by the the effect of, of his bolus conflict with israel, his ball that has been, has suffered significant losses and no longer can, can play the kind of role that it had played for a long time is a leading ally of iran and a principal deterrent against and is really attacked on the wrong and now is the loss of syria. iranian regime has seen the loss of, of an allied that had been one of his principal partners in what, what is known as the resistance front. since the iranian revolution in 1979, it has lost the opportunity to move weapons to resupply his bola through syria.

and it has really now found itself in a position in that, in which it's going to have to think very seriously about how it can reconstruct some kind of deterrent past year, given the losses in living on and the loss of the regime. and how about israel, how is benjamin netanyahu as of right wing coalition, likely to view as sides removal by is list insurgents? cautiously i think and, and we seeing that in the early statements of, of nathan yahoo in response to the fall of us out in which he welcome to change. but pointed out that israel would be watching closely what happened on the ground. israel's principal strategic concern in syria for some years has been that his paula and iran would strengthen their position along israel's northern border in southern syria. and given the events of the past week, it now seems as if that threat has significantly receded. there is still some

concern about how an emerging searing authority will conduct itself with regard to israel. but it does seem to me that israel's assessment is likely to be that it is now in a, in a most in a stronger position. but then it was a couple of weeks ago, that's very clear. thank you so much for allowing that to force professor at steven high them from smith college and the brookings institution. one of the 1st places liberated by the rebels in damascus is a sudden i a prison north of the capital. it's the most and the torres people institution bound by the i side regime. and so tens of thousands of people have been killed that since the outbreak of civil and 2011, you may find some of the images in on next report. distressing as well. it's about

rushing to see their loved ones. thousands of people, storm serious, most famous prison, near damascus. the many of those contact with family members over the years without knowing the fate and clinging to help. i just found my brother, it's been 6, he is human rights groups estimate. 30000 people were killed in this prison alone. it was nicknamed the human slaughter house by amnesty international. under now was to president bush. charlotte sat, tens of thousands of syrians disappeared into the country's net worth of prisons. of the slightest suspicion of defense could result in incarceration. for many, it would also mean torture and death when bama moody, in 2013 thousands of photos of victims were smuggled out of syria. they are known

as the cesar photos approve of human rights abuses under a set as hopes for a new era as well. many say it would be hard to forget crimes vs that family committed against so many of their own people. the thoughts they were from the machine, we only receive pain and torture from them. freed prisoners are joining the crowds from the streets of damascus. but for many families, there is still an agonizing wait. have to find out whether their loved ones are still alive. let's take a closer look at the liberation of a sudden i a prison on well, i'll booty is still in human rights lawyer and former political prisoner who has worked in exile to bring members of a sudden regime to justice and from washington withdrawn by syria. i missed that

abraham, i assume from the middle east institute. he was detained and tortured by susan secret police back in 2011. welcome. both i'm on what albany can, can we start with you and start with your reaction to the deliberation of a sudden i pressed, which i understand, you know, well, uh yeah, i know when, when i saw that the said my present broke said ne, a prison, it's simply for the that the machine of a subdivision. he did a fight hordes, the syrians with the simple everybody afraid to have any opposition to the go to this person. this simple of michelle separation. what it's collapse it pretty about the food. i said, please you find it's gone on for if i i know this is in my but as i

was spend then use inside this prison i visits and so thought that of these 10 years. uh and i, well, we had a lot of money from the victims who survived from this vision. unfortunately, i said the vision, i felt a vision can then of 1000 and then of 1000 from if any is this person we, we, we have 150000 just disappear, missing peers from invitation place and syria. something now, after or this present open, there is 120000 person sitting missing

that me a separation given to me. it says now i'm a reputation place. it's like, had really like how and to abraham out if i so your reaction from washington, you know, 1st thank you for having me. it's an honor to be co hosted with mister brittany. i was only detained for a few days, but they were on the were enough for me to see what was happening on the other side of this on a see what he has used to see. so i want to congratulate mr. it has been named. he suffered a lot to sacrifice a lot for celia and many syrians. really appreciate the sacrifice for bringing syria to the lights again. as i started when you said syria was ruled through and the total yes, secret prisons and dungeons of tortures something on the scale of this to us. the something on the scale of 1st audience presents to actually suppress and to press the population and to oppress them. and torture them into submission. the,

the issue of the, to me is what was at the core of the cedar, an uprising, and the symbolism of the rebels trying to reach the prisons the 1st and before any other buildings, even before the presidential palace itself. the really symbolizes how many syrians and we're talking about hundreds of thousands of people who were detained and tortured over the decades. and that means many syrians, almost every studio, finally lost someone or know someone who was forcibly disappear. and people were never able to hear about them again. and if i understood the un undue i, albany correctly such was this prisons refutation. but when they came for you, the one place in this whole of a country that you did not want to go to a, was this prison? yes,

absolutely. sorry. i've looked at with the question was foremost that are going to yes, absolutely. so i will skip the city an air force intelligence in a at the airport. another notorious one, save my is holy and fully another level. and even instead my out there are levels. syrians knew these things, the syrians have nicknames for these things, and people shake one they hear about them. they know that if you are going inside of them, you are lost. if you leave them, you are born again and when people are, they leave those prisoners because they are designed to lose society by fear. so when they leave the whispers of people talking about those stories that's help us out, wanted to keep ceiling in silence. and that's why syrians didn't want to remain under his oppression and took to the streets and said, no matter what happens, no matter what you were getting his face. next, we are not going back to those dungeons right. so on while i'm

we all know now that terrible things happened under the i side regime beatings, torches disappeared and says, house showed the new syria address those injustices or is the big mission in, in fact. and then you'll see the big thing struck shot for is that funds issued on justice? there is no peace in syria would be stay, but this out just these 4 or the victims. you know, i said 3, she goes to the crimes, not after the 2011. he started to commit that the crimes from its beginning from how much that god. i am from how much i'd be there in have on the 2nd 1981 and i think it's a 2 and he commented a lot of crimes after that. so he's a structured building of crimes, and those people will not nip, are allowed to then to have immunity or escape from justice. justice would come to

syria. it's coming for both of them in europe. you know, copeland's, we work on it as up in france and i was, there is other sort of, i guess the shuttle i said, and also in jeremy's, there is many other students and this type, even thinking of he said, from disability and a lot of work to been structured for funds is showing just these concepts, applying justice in syria, in front of the victims, coaching the cleaning of and put them in jail to be some piece of the victims. right. i want to put this, this question to both of you, but i'll start with you abraham, i'll i. so how do you ensure and then you a syria, that just this is just this a not vengeance. i thank you for this question. i think this is just the

beginning of another challenge weren't talking to face when people took to the streets in syria. they wanted to build it. just add to realistic syria, as i've got in the way people wanted to topple side. now this is another child and another chapter for the sea and people, but we will realize this is full with the challenges, but we believe we all believe that as a nation, that we have the needed expertise. we have the needed professionals, we have the need to motivate people to work on the ceiling. and people always found their way through the cracks of oppression to organize, to talk to each other, to document the violations. and you told me in the case with the rest of the world now we want to see all these organizations working together and with some help with the international community. but we want this process to be ceiling outlet. we want justice, we want transitional justice because that's very important for people to have their own closure. many people never saw the bodies of their beloved one and the want.

now what's the search for the mass graves will start. other issues will make things very emotional for serious, but we need to see a police that pass for justice. so people know how to manage all dots. emotions. they need to face over the next few days, weeks and months. so they know they don't have to take things into their own have there is a passport, justice and the just gonna take time, but we are on the right track. so, so on. well, this notion of sit and let just the sudden i know that that, but in your work you have pursued some of these people through. when you are paying quotes, do you see that work continuing in new york in costs, or do you see coming home to syria? it's really be continuing here. it's a big goal or a wait and see that because when that could, i mean that's based in europe, they would be accounting here, but the green as celia, they would be account 0. yeah. so many now a good. i mean that's,

you'll see that there's 3 of the security empty orders in but on the way where they hide being now in syria. rush up as a but on the way to what i show. but as i've come up, have been through it on russia. they hide being now on sort of saying think i'm dreaming to come to you. and that's what we're waiting rugs in the here. i'm going, i have here, they would cause him because we have a lot of evidence of a 4th as, as of a victims of them. and we con, building cases against them. here comes them. say here, can i so a slightly now you have question i asked you about, is there a place for forgiveness we have in this and i'm looking at the examples of south africa and northern ireland where they were sort of the truth and reconciliation. this does that have any pods to play?

it's different situation in syria is different about the one about steps in, in, in as soon as out of the country they, water crime committed for the crimes is see the crimes that goes to who minutes. when you thought you have some but be for enjoy, look forward. have information, love to defense about your country. just to have fun. when you broke in a human being, just because a goose do you bump name from him? just broken, it may came last piece, the human that see how you can leave with some but the seems like that nobody comes if was in not about for gifted many serious comments at the crimes as because they had to the defense about them said they should to do that,

it's ok sometimes for given for the source. but who comments? it's good. i was a patient to hands at people to see the people just to enjoy or to take power. okay. that you cannot forgive page, is that your, your feeling as well? even him, i feel better is that no pause, no place for forgiveness and they said they, these people must be assumed. as you know, mainly this question i think should be addressed to the people who have rights like, like most are going. the other thing is and prisoners and to build on what he just said eloquently, you know, forgiveness means the justice and the justice needs forgiveness. syrians will discuss how much of the tool through the ranks of the institutions of this union criminals. but many of those people who committed the crime of torturing thousands of people to death, they need to be held accountable. that's for peace that,

that's for to see is stable syria. those are criminals. how many they go into in the ranks of a lower rice individuals? that's of course, if there is a specialized question for people, sports specialize in transitional justice. but those who gave the orders those who institutionalized torture. those who made that systematic inside syria should be held accountable. people cannot forgive if they don't see that there is some sort for the past for them to have the closure and see at least some sort of what they could cool justice. all right? that we will be fine q a, both even him out a sail from the middle east, the integers in washington. thank you. you've been royce, a rights lawyer on. well, i'll bony here with me. thank you. thank you both. we wish you and that's is by, or you can follow the team of social media at cdw and use lasers headlines. of

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. i want to tell you something. it's about me. my house, i take the weather shock. i never saw that this could happen to me raising awareness of h i, b, and on. and we're still in this cycle. shame and silence. we need to break out of and i want to tell you something how to tennessee chris. in 15 minutes, i'm d w. police special vanessia. the attorney in

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i'm looking for my nephew. give me a decent feeling. we don't know what to screen or start off, fled from northern iraq. and he became one of hundreds of migrants who vanish every year. somewhere in no man's land lines between batteries and are clear, if you choose, become close in a cru, see a political concept went oh you lost the run starts december 18th on dw, the frankfurt a hard international gateway to the best connection, southfield road and radio, located in the heart of europe, you are connected to the world experience outstanding shopping and dining offers

and drawing our services be our guest at frankfurt and bought cd managed by front bought the the business day that we can use. these are our top stores with the so i'm serious as the most revel. data has begun discussions on transferring power a day after rebels forces sees the capital, damascus, and president bashar assad flag to russian. i'm at al sharra has met with the outgoing prime minister, serious parliaments, which like the prime minister, has also pro a sab says it supports the people's will to build in the future. many syrians have been flooding the streets,

have been adoptive countries to celebrate the sudden end of the i saw some.