charge of the capital of damascus and the full melita has fled to moscow. the situation is still very much in flux from the countries the future direction. uncertain. the lead revel drew for is on the un tara list, but syrians have welcomed them as liberates as freaking the country for 5 decades of brutal repression. i feel go and live, and this is the day the how much they describe the full joy after 14 years of being away from our family in our country. coming back with our heads held high, the. we're very happy as to the for the, for shuttle aside, make good raises, open forever on the freight to say it. the

also on the day syrian rebels free prisoners from the sudden i a jail seen by many is a metro full by shot a sides police state. we were living in a big presence, a big prison that was syria heavy. it's being 50 years, jordan, which we couldn't speak nor express ourselves, nor express all worries on that. but anyone who spoke out was detained in prisons. as you saw and said, naya naya, welcome to the de sterren rebel lee. this have started to us the control much closely by the international community. i believe having the so called the joints in milledgeville operations come onto that the lot which led to lightning offensive against the outside of a shame as that match with outgoing the outgoing prime minister in damascus. mohamad out july the has dropped the number to get associated with these jihad is

awesome. so is now using his real name. i'll shot you tried to bolster his legitimacy by presenting of a moderate public image of sophie serious parliament, which like the prime minister, was pro aside says it supports the people's will to build a new future for battle. looked like is unclear, but many sit inside. it can only get better or some damascus streets are covered in bullet casings. not from sight seeing that, but from enjoy seeing over the fold of the unsolved receive the date, the syrians are looking forward to a new era. and a new one came out today and thought and thought, there's no fear. there's nothing to be scared of. everything is okay in the country 2nd, so i'll just hope the economy gets back on track and everything will be okay. rebel forces are patrolling the capital, the street. they are expecting many syrians leaving abroad to return home soon.

the millions of people have been displaced during the civil war, many anal returning for the 1st time in years. like here, the lebanese folder check points on the syrians side are abandoned. the while these people are returning home, lebanon says some also trying to leave syria, given the uncertainty about how the current situation will unfold. the leading rebel force behind a search for you, i'll talk to you on some or h t. s. is considered a tara organization by subaru, western countries, and as the group is now trying to present itself in the more moderate lights, some countries are reconsidering the stones towards it.

but your opinion, however, made clear. the european union is not apparently engaging with h t s or its leaders for stop. however, let me finish with this as h t. s. takes on greats or responsibilities we, we need to assess not just the words, but also the actions of the united nation says crime is committed during the civil war. must be addressed. any political transition must ensure accountability for the type of traitors, of serious violations. and guarantee that those responsible, i have to account one day after the fall of the subject. she, it's how to say what direction the country will take the international communities now closely watching developments in syria. but among the uncertainty, the prevailing mood and syria is one of hope and joy. will. professor steven high

demand holds the catch him shout in mid least that is at smith college in the united states. he's also a non resident senior fellow in the brookings institution center for middle east policy, and he joins us from washington. welcome to d. w. professor, you cautiously optimistic. now that aside has gone. i am cautiously optimistic. it's been quite striking how smoothly the very early days of this transition have gone in in syria, a h t s and its partners. and the operation that over through assets are making all the right noises about responsiveness to the concerns of minorities. they're moving to maintain public order in damascus and other major cities. they have offered assurances to the other we, minority to christians, that they are safe, secure, and that their lives will not be interfered with during this transition. so from everything we've seen, the,

the 1st few days of what's happened since the fall of us. i have have been actually quite remarkable in how smoothly things have gone. and we've had the prime minister talking about eating the transition to a government chosen by the people. so this will be the next tricky bit of this transition. do you think that that will actually happen as well? if we reach a point at which syrians are able to participate in choosing a new government through elections is likely to take some time before we get there . there are huge numbers of a huge number of issues that has to be dealt with well in advance of, of, of the possibility of holding elections. we need to imagine some form of interim governing authority and merging. there has to be a process of constitutional reform. they'll have to be some opportunity for syrians to become acquainted with what a democratic system looks like and how it operates for parties to form and all of

that. and we'll take some time. so it's entirely possible that syrians will be able to participate in shaving or future government, but it's not something that i would look to as a very quick next step. that still does take a quick look at some of a potential repercussions of this move regional and father failed. and i'm, can we start when it's likely effect on iran, which helped to prop up the sides regime this? well, iran has suffered a number of fairly significant blows in, in the past 10 days, 2 weeks and, and even longer is position has been severely weakened by the, the effect of, of his bolus conflict with israel. his ball that has been, has suffered significant losses. and no longer can, can play the kind of role that it had played for a long time is a leading ally of iran and

a principal deterrent against and is really attacked on the wrong. and now with the loss of syria, iranian regime has seen the loss of, of an allied that had been one of its principal partners and what, what is known as the resistance front. since the iranian revolution in 1979, it has lost the opportunity to move weapons to resupply his bola through syria. and it has really now found itself in a position in that, in which it's going to have to think very seriously about how it can reconstruct some kind of deterrent past year, given the losses and living on and the loss of the sun regime. and how about israel, how is benjamin netanyahu as of right wing coalition, likely to view as sides removal by is list insurgence. so cautiously, i think and, and we seen that in the early statements of, of nathan yahoo in response to the fall of us out in which he will come to change.

but pointed out that israel would be watching closely what happened on the ground. israel's principal strategic concern in syria for some years has been that his paula and iran would strengthen their position along israel's northern border in southern syria. and given the events of the past week, it now seems as if that threat has significantly receded. there is still some concern about how an emerging searing authority will conduct itself with regard to israel. but it does seem to me that israel's assessment is likely to be that it is now and in a most in a stronger position. but then it was a couple of weeks ago. that's very clear. thank you so much for allowing that to force profess that stephen hide them from smith college and the brookings institution.

one of the 1st places liberated by the rebels in damascus is a sudden i a present north of the capital. it's the most and the torres people institution bound by the assets regime. and so tens of thousands of people have been killed. that since the outbreak of civil and 2011, you may find some of the images in the next report. distressing, as well as about rushing to see their loved ones, thousands of people, storm serious, most famous prison, near damascus. the menu lost contact with family members over the years without knowing their fate and clinging to help. i just found my brother. it's been 6 years at the human rights groups estimates 30000 people were killed in this prison alone. it was nicknamed the human slaughter house by amnesty international.

under now was to president bush. charlotte sat, tens of thousands of syrians disappeared into the country's network of prisons. the slightest suspicion of defense could result in incarceration. for many, it would also mean torture and death when bama moody, in 2013 thousands of photos of victims were smuggled out of syria. they are known as the cesar photos approve of human rights abuses under a set as hopes for a new era as well. many say it would be hard to forget crimes the a set family committed against so many of their own people the thoughts they were from the machine. we only receive pain and torture from them . freed prisoners are joining the crowds in the streets of damascus. but for many

families, there is still an agonizing wait, have to find out whether their loved ones are still alive. let's take a closer look at the liberation of a sudden i presence on. well, i'll booty is the syrian human rights lawyer and former political prisoner who has worked in exile to bring members of the assets rising to justice and from washington withdrawn by syria. unless that abraham assumed from the middle east institute. he was detained and tortured by susan secret police back in 2011. welcome. both i'm on what albany can, can we start with you and start with your reaction to the deliberation of a sudden i pressed, which i understand, you know, well, uh yeah, i know when, when i saw that the said not a present broke said now a prison it's simply for the sheep of a subdivision. he did

a fight hordes, the syrians, with the simple everybody afraid to have any opposition to the go to this person. this simple of michelle separation. what it's collapse it pretty about the food a subdivision. you die, it's gone on for if i know this prison, my brother, i was spend 10 years inside this prison i visits and 2 of those 10 of these 10 years. uh and i, well, we had a lot of money from the victims who survived from this vision. unfortunately, i said the vision, i felt a vision can then of 1000 tens of thousands from get

any is this person we we, we have 150000 just disappear, missing pearson invitation place in syria. something know of that or this present open. there is 120000 a person sitting missing that'd be a subdivision given to me saved. and i, i'm a reputation place. it's like, had really like how to abraham out if i so your reaction from washington, you know, 1st thank you for having me. it's an honor to be co hosted with mr. brittany. i was only detained for a few days but they were on the were enough for me to see what was happening on the other side of this on a see what he has used to see. so i want to congratulate mr. has been named,

he's suffered a lot to sacrifice a lot for celia and many syrians, really appreciate the sacrifice for bringing syria to the lights again as well. so when you said syria was ruled through and the total yes. secret prisons and dungeons of tortures. something on the scale of this task. the something on the scale of 1st audience presents to actually suppressed and to press the population and to oppress them and torture them into submission. the, the issue of the, to me is what it was at the core of the cedar, an uprising, and the symbolism of the rebels trying to reach the prisons 1st and before any other buildings, even before the presidential palace itself, really symbolizes how many syrians and we're talking about hundreds of thousands of people who were detained and tortured over the decades. and that means many syrians, almost every student, finally lost someone or know someone who was forcibly disappear and people were

never able to hear about them again. and if i understood the unreal i'll bony correctly such was this prisons refutation. but when they came for you, the one place in this whole of a country that you did not want to go to a, was this present? yes, absolutely. sorry. i've looked at with the question was foremost that are going to yes, absolutely. so i will skip this city an air force intelligence in a at the airport. another notorious one, save my is holy and fully another level and even instead an eye out there are levels. syrians knew these things, the syrians have nicknames for these things, and people shake one they hear about them. they know that if you are going inside of them, you are lost. if you leave them, you are born again and when people are,

they leave those prisoners because they are designed to lose society by fear. so when they leave the whispers of people talking about those stories, that's how i wanted to keep ceiling in silence. and that's why syrians didn't want to remain under his oppression and took to the streets and said, no matter what happens, no matter what you were getting his face. next, we are not going back to those dungeons right. so on while i'm we all know now that terrible things happened under the i side regime beatings, torches, disappearances, house showed the new syria address those injustices. this is the big mission in, in fact. and then you'll see the big, big struck shot for the funds they should on justice. there is no peace in syria would be stay, but this out just these 4 or the victims. you know, i said 3, she goes into the crimes,

not after the 2011. he started to commit that the crimes from its beginning from home on my 2nd i am from hema and i'd be there in have on the 2nd 19811982 he come with a lot of crimes after that. so he's a structured building of crimes, and those people will not live are allowed to then to have immunity or escape from justice. justice would come to syria. it's coming for both of them in europe. you know, copeland's, we work on it as up in france and i was, there is other sort of, i guess the shuttle i said, and also in jeremy's, there is many other students and this type, even thinking of he said, from disability and a lot of work to been structured for funds, the show and justice concept, applying justice in syria in front of the victims coaching. that could, i mean,

as i put them in jail to be some piece of the victims. right. i want to put this, this question to both of you, but i'll start with you abraham, i'll i. so how do you insure and then you a syria, that just this is just this and not vengeance. thank you for this question. i think this is just the beginning of another challenge we're going to face when people took to the streets in syria. they wanted to build it. just add to realistic syria, as i've got in the way people wanted to topple side. now this is another charts and another chapter for the sea and people, but we will realize this is full with the challenges, but we believe we all believe that as a nation, that we have the needed expertise. we have the needed professionals, we have the need to motivate people to work on the ceiling. and people always found their way through the cracks of oppression to organize, to talk to each other,

to document the violations. and you told me in the case with the rest of the world now we want to see all these organizations working together and with some help with the international community. but we want this process to be sitting on the left. we want justice, we want transitional justice because that's very important for people to have their own closure. many people never saw the bodies of their beloved one and the want. now what's the search for the mass graves will start. other issues will make things very emotional for serious, but we need to see a police to pass for justice. so people know how to manage all dots. emotions. they need to face over the next few days, weeks and months. so they know they don't have to take things into their on have, there is a passport, justice and the just gonna take time, but we are on the right track. so, so on. well, this notion of sit and let just is, i know that, that, but in your work you have pursued some of these people through. we do are paying

quotes. do you see that work continuing in new york in costs or do you see coming home to syria? it's really be, continue it here. and it's a big goal or a wait and see if you have because when that could, i mean that's based in europe, they would be accounting here. but the green eyes and syria, they would be account 0. yeah. so many now a good. i mean that's, you'll see that there's 3 of the security empty orders in, but in a way where they hide things out in syria. rush up, i said, i don't know where to where i shall, but as i've come up, have been to run thrush. are they hiding now on sort of saying, think i'm dreaming to come to you? and that's what we're waiting represent me here. i'm going, i've here they with gods in because we have a lot of evidence about a 4th as of a victims of them. and we con,

building cases against them. here comes them. say, here, can i? so i'm a slightly now you've question. i asked you about, is there a place for forgiveness we have in this and i'm looking at the examples of south africa and northern ireland where they were sort of the truth and reconciliation. this does not have any pods to play. it's different and stretch it and syria is different about the one that about us in, in, in as soon as out of the country they what a crime committed for the crimes is celia crimes that goes to who minutes when you to chat some but be for enjoy, look forward, have information, love to defense about your country. just to have fun when you broke into human being, just because a goose do you bump name from here?

just broken lip may came last piece, the human. that's how we got the was some of the seems like that. no, but because it was in is not about to get many serious comments in the declines as because they had to the defense about them says they should to do that. it's ok sometimes for given, for the source or not. but who comments? it's good. i was stationed to happens at the for the city, the people just to enjoy to take power. okay. that you cannot be part of the page. is that your, your feeling as well? it for him? i feel better is that no pause, no place for forgiveness and they said they, these people must be assumed. as you know, mainly this question i think should be addressed to the people who have rights like like mister bloom,

the other 210 years on to prisoners. and to build on what he just said eloquently, you know, forgiveness needs of justice and the justice needs forgiveness. syrians will discuss how much they go through the ranks or the institutions of this union criminals. but many of those people who committed the crime of torturing thousands of people to death, they need to be held accountable. that's for peace that, that's for to see is stable syria. those are criminals. how many they go into in the ranks of a lower rice individuals? that's of course, very specialized question for people for specialize in transitional justice. but those who gave the orders those who institutionalized torture, those who made it systematic insights, syria should be held accountable. people cannot forgive if they don't see that there is some source for the past for them to have the closure and see at least

some sort of what they could cool justice. all right? that we will be fine. q a both at abraham our sail from the middle east, the institute in washington. thank you. you've been royce, a rights lawyer on. well, i'll buena here with me. thank you. thank you both. we wish you and that's is by or you can follow the tables social media at c, w, and use lasers headlines. of course the w dot com over at d w. a good, the

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