mass gusts and the full melita has slides to moscow. the situation is still very much in flux and the countries the future direction. on sudden the lead revel. drew is on the un, tara list, but syrians have welcomed them as liberates as freaking the country for 5 decades of brutal repression. i'm feel go and live, and this is the day the how much they describe the full joy after 14 years of being away from our family in our country. coming back with our head held high, the. we're very happy as to the for the shuttle aside, make good bridges open forever on the freight to say in the

also in the day syrian rebels free prisoners from the sudden i, a jail seen by many is a method full for by shot sides. police states, we were living in a big prison, a big prison that was syria, that if it's being 50 years joining which we couldn't speak nor express ourselves, nor express all worries. any one who spoke out was detained in prisons. as you saw in certain, i entered with a bunch of proof that now you're welcome to the day sir. and rebel leaders have started to assert that control much closely by the international community. i believe that having the so called joint and military operations come onto that, the light which led to lightning offense against the outside of a shame as that match with outgoing the outgoing prime minister in damascus. boom, habit al july me has dropped the number associated with these jihad is awesome. so

it's now using his real name. i was shot on his tried to bolster his legitimacy by presenting of a moderate public image of sophie serious problem and to excite the prime minister was pro aside says it supports the people's will to build a new future. for battle, looked like is unclear, but many sit inside. it can only get better. some damascus streets are covered in bullet casings, not from fighting, but from enjoy seeing over the fall of the unsolved receive the date to the syrians are looking forward to a new era. i have an idea, i came out today and thought and thought, there's no fear for me. it says nothing to be scared of. everything is okay in the country. second. so i'll just hope the economy gets back on track and everything will be okay. rebel forces are patrolling the capital, the street. they are expecting many syrians leaving abroad to return home soon.

the millions of people have been displaced during the civil war. many, and now returning for the 1st time in years like here, the lebanese border, the check points on the syrian side are abandoned, the while these people are returning home. lebanon says some also trying to leave syria, given the uncertainty about how the current situation will unfold. the leading rebel force behind a thoughtful, i got to talk to you on some or h t. s. is considered a tear organization by subaru, wisdom, countries. as the group is now trying to present itself in the more moderate lights, some countries are reconsidering the stones towards it.

the european union, however, made clear the european union is not apparently engaging with h t s or its leaders for stop. however, let me finish with this as h t. s takes on great sir responsibilities we, we need to assess not just the words, but also the actions of the united nation says crime is committed during the civil war must be addressed. any political transition must enjoy accountability for perpetrators of serious violations and guarantee that those responsible i have to account one day after the fall of the a. so i'll just see, it's how to say what direction the country will take the international communities . now closely watching developments in syria, but among the uncertainty, the prevailing mood and syria is one of hope and joy. well,

professor steven high demand holds the catch him chad in mid least that is at smith college and the united states is also a non resident senior fellow at the brookings institution center for middle east policy. and he joins us from washington. welcome to w professor. are you cautiously optimistic? now that aside is gone. i am cautiously optimistic. it's been quite striking how smoothly the very early days of this transition have gone in in syria, a h t s. and as partners in the operation that over through us that are making all the right noises about responsiveness to the concerns of minorities, they're moving to maintain public order in damascus and other major cities. they have offered assurances to the other we, minority to christians, that they are safe, secure, and that their lives will not be interfered with during this transition. so from everything we've seen, the,

the 1st few days of what's happened since the fall of us. i have, have been actually quite remarkable in how smoothly things have gone. we had the prime minister talking about eating the transition to a government chosen by the people. so this will be the next tricky bit of this transition to your thing, but that will actually happen as well. if we reach a point at which syrians are able to participate in choosing a new government through elections is likely to take some time before we get there . there are huge numbers of a huge number of issues that have to be dealt with well in advance of, of, of the possibility of holding elections. we need to imagine some form of interim governing authority and merging. there has to be a process of constitutional reform. they'll have to be some opportunity for syrians to become acquainted with what a democratic system looks like and how it operates for parties to form and all of

that. and we'll take some time. so it's entirely possible that the syrians will be able to participate in shaving or future government, but it's not something that i would look to as a very quick next step. it still does take a quick look at some of a potential repercussions of this move. regional and father failed and i'm can, we saw it when it's likely effect on iran, which helped to prop up the sides regime a well around has suffered a number of fairly significant blows in, in the past 10 days, 2 weeks and even longer and it's position has been severely weakened by the, the effect of, of his bolus conflict with israel. his ball that has been, has suffered significant losses and no longer can, can play the kind of role that it had played for a long time is a leading ally of iran and a principal deterrent against and is really attacked on the wrong. and now is the

loss of syria. iranian regime has seen the loss of, of an allied that had been one of his principal partners in what, what is known as the resistance front. since the iranian revolution in 1979, it has lost the opportunity to move weapons to resupply his bola through syria. and it has really now found itself in a position in that, in which it's going to have to think very seriously about how it can reconstruct some kind of deterrent past year, given the losses in living on and the loss of the sun regime. and how about israel, how is benjamin netanyahu as of right wing coalition, likely to view assets removal by is limited insurgence. cautiously i think and, and we seeing that in the early statements of, of nathan yahoo in response to the fall of us out in which he will come to change.

but pointed out that israel would be watching closely what happened on the ground. israel's principal strategic concern in syria for some years has been that his paula and iran would strengthen their position along israel's northern border in southern syria. and given the events of the past week, it now seems as if that threat has significantly receded. there is still some concern about how an emerging searing authority will conduct itself with regard to israel. but it does seem to me that israel's assessment is likely to be that it is now in a, in a most in a stronger position. but then it was a couple of weeks ago, that's very clear. thank you so much for allowing that to force professor at steven high them from smith college and the brookings institution.

one of the 1st places liberated by the rebels in damascus is the sudden i present north of the capital. it's the most. and the torres people institution bound by the i saw the regime. and so tens of thousands of people have been killed. that since the outbreak of civil and 2011, you may find some of the images in on next report. distressing as well, it's about rushing to see their loved ones. thousands of people, storm serious, most famous prison, near damascus. the many of those contact with family members over the years without knowing their fate and clinging to help. i just found my brother. it's been 6, he is human rights groups estimate, 30000 people were killed in this prison alone. it was nicknamed the human slaughter

house by amnesty international. under now was the president bush. charlotte sat tens of thousands of syrians disappeared into the country's network of prisons, or the slightest suspicion of defense could result in incarceration. for many, it would also mean torture and death when bama moody, in 2013 thousands of photos of victims were smuggled out of syria. they are known as the cesar photos approve of human rights abuses under a set as hopes for a new era as well. many say it would be hard to forget crimes be a set family committed against so many of their own people. the thoughts they were from the machine. we only receive pain and torture from them . freed prisoners are joining the crowds in the streets of damascus. but for many

families, there is still an agonizing wait, have to find out whether their loved ones are still alive. let's take a closer look at the liberation of a sudden i presence on. well, i'll booty is still in human rights lawyer and former political prisoner who has worked in exile to bring members of the us on regime to justice and from washington withdrawn by syria. i missed that abraham, i assume from the middle east institute. he was detained and tortured by susan secret police back in 2011. welcome. both i'm on what albany can, can we start with you and start with your reaction to the deliberation of a sudden i pressed, which i understand, you know, well, uh yeah, i know when, when i saw that the said i a present broke said now a prison it's simple for me that the machine of a subdivision, he did

a fight hordes, the syrians with the simple everybody afraid to have any opposition to the go to this person. this simple of michelle separation. what is collapse about the food? a subdivision diag. it's gone on for if i, i know this prison, my brother, i was spend 10 years inside this prison isn't then sort of thought that of these 10 years. uh and i, well, we had a lot of money from the victims who survived from this prison. unfortunately, a subdivision i felt a video ocean can then of 1000 tens of thousands from if

any is this person we, we, we have 150000, just disappear, missing pearson invitation place in syria. something know of that or this present open. there is 120000 person sitting using that me a subdivision concept says now i'm a reputation place. it's like head really like how and to abraham out if i so your reaction from washington, you know, 1st thank you for having me. it's an honor to be co hosted with mister brittany. i was only detained for a few days, but they were on the were enough for me to see what was happening on the other side of this on a see what he has used to see. so i want to congratulate mr. it has been named, he suffered a lot to sacrifice

a lot for celia and many syrians. really appreciate the sacrifice for bringing syria to the lights. again. as i started when you said syria was ruled through and the total yes, secret prisons and dungeons of tortures something on the scale of this task. the something on the scale of a study as presents to actually suppress and to press the population and to oppress them and torture them into submission the, the issue of detainees. what was at the core of the cedar, an uprising, and the symbolism of the rebels trying to reach the prisons 1st and before any other buildings, even before the presidential palace itself, really symbolizes how many syrians and we're talking about hundreds of thousands of people who were detained and tortured over the decades, and that means many syrians, almost every student, finally lost someone or know someone who was forcibly disappear and people were

never able to hear about them again. and if i understood the unreal i'll bony correctly such was this prisons refutation. but when they came for you, the one place in this whole of a country that you did not want to go to a, was this prison? yes, absolutely. sorry. i've looked at with the question, was forms that are going to yes, absolutely. so i will skip this city an air force intelligence in a at the airport. another notorious one, save my is holy and fully another level. and even instead my out there are levels. syrians knew these things, the syrians have nicknames for these things, and people shake one they hear about them. they know that if you are going inside of them, you are lost. if you leave them, you are born again and when people are, they leave those prisoners because they are designed to lose society by fear. so

when they leave the whispers of people talking about those stories, that's how i wanted to keep ceiling in silence. and that's why syrians didn't want to remain under his oppression and took to the streets and said, no matter what happens and no matter what you were getting his face. next, we are not going back to those dungeons right. so on while i'm we all know now that terrible things happened under the side regime beatings, torches, disappearances, house showed the new syria address those injustices. this is the big mission in, in fact. and then you'll see the big, big struck shot for is that far as the shipment justice, there is no peace in syria would be stay, but this out just these 4 or the victims. you know, i said 3, she goes into the crimes, not of the 2011. he started to come with it the crimes from its

beginning from home on my 2nd i am from hema and i'd be there in have on the 2nd 19811982 he come with a lot of crimes as that. so he's a structural building of crimes, and those people will not live are allowed to then to have immunity or escape from justice. justice would come to syria. it's coming for both of them in europe. you know, copeland's, we work on it as up in france and i was, there is other sort of, i guess the shuttle i said, and also in jeremy's, there is many other students and this ties, they've been ranking office out from disability and a lot of work to been structured for funds this year and just this concept, applying justice in syria in front of the victims of catching the cleaning of and

put them in jail to be some piece of the victims. right. i want to put this question to both of you, but i'll start with you abraham, i'll i. so how do you insure and then you a syria, that just this is just this a not vengeance. thank you for this question. i think this is just the beginning of another challenge we're going to face when people took to the streets in syria. they wanted to build it, just add to realistic syria. so got in the way people wanted to topple side. now this is another charts and another chapter for the sea and people, but we all realize this is full with the challenges, but we believe we all believe as a nation. now we have the needed expertise. we have, they needed professionals. we have the need to motivate people to work on the ceiling and people always found their way through the cracks of oppression to organize, to talk to each other,

to document the violations. and you told me in the kids with the rest of the world now we want to see all these organizations working together and with some help with the international community. but we want this process to be sitting on the left. we want justice, we want transitional justice because that's very important for people to have their own closure. many people never saw the bodies of their beloved one and the want. now what's the search for the mass graves will start. other issues will make things very emotional for serious, but we need to see a police that pass for justice. so people know how to manage all dots. emotions. they need to face over the next few days, weeks and months. so they know they don't have to take things into their own have there is a passport, justice, and the just gonna take time, but we are on the right track. so, so on. well, this notion of sit and let just is, i know that, that, but in your work you have pursued some of these people through. we do are paying

quotes. do you see that work continuing in new york in costs or do you see coming home to syria? it's really be, continue it here, and it's a big oh or a wait and see that because when that could, i mean that's based in europe. they would be accounting here, but the green eyes and syria, they would be account 0. yeah. so many now a good, i mean that's, you'll see that there's 3 of the security empty orders in but on the way where they hide being now in syria. rush up, i said, but on the way to what i show, but as i've come up, have been through it on thrush, are they hide being now on sort of saying, think i'm dreaming to come to you. and that's what we're waiting was in the here. and when i lived here, they would cousin because we have a lot of evidence of a, a for us as of

a victims of them. and we can building cases against them. here comes them. say here, can i? so i a slightly, now you have question. i asked you a bit. is there a place for forgiveness? we've in this and i'm looking at the examples of south africa and northern ireland where they were sort of the truth and reconciliation. this does not have any pods to play. it's different and stretch it, and syria is different about the one that about us in, in, in as soon as out of the country they want a crime committed for the crimes. is celia crimes that goes to who minutes when you thought you have some but be for enjoy. look for have information, love to defense about your country. just to have fun when you broke into human being just because a good do you the name from here just broken. let's make came last is the human

that. see how you can leave with some but the seems like that? no, but because it was in not about forget many serious comments at the crimes as because they had to the defense about themselves. they should to do that. it's ok sometimes for given for the source. but who comments? it's good. i was a patient to hands at people to see the people just to enjoy or to take part was okay that you come up with sort of get page. is that your your feeling as well? it for him? i feel better is that no pause, no place for forgiveness and they said they, these people must be assumed. you know, mainly this question i think should be addressed to the people who have rights like like most are going. the other thing is and prisoners and to build on what he just

said eloquently, you know, forgiveness needs of justice and the justice needs forgiveness. syrians will discuss how much they go through the ranks or the institutions of this union criminals. but many of those people who committed the crime of torturing thousands of people to death, they need to be held accountable. that's for peace that that's for to see stable syria. those are criminals. how many they go into in the ranks of a lower rice individuals. that's of course, very specialized question for people for specialize in transitional justice. but those who gave the orders those who institutionalized torture, those who made it systematic insights, syria should be held accountable. people cannot forgive. if they don't see that there is some sort for the past for them to have the closure and see at least some sort of what they could cool justice. all right, that we will be fine. q

a both of uh, able to him out. i sail from the middle east, the institute in washington. thank you. you've been royce, a rights lawyer on. well, i'll boone here with me. thank you. thank you both. we wish you and that's is by, or you can follow the tables social media at c, w, and use lasers headlines. of course the w dot com over d w have a good the

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. i'm going to show you some amazing narrow b as di bruce, since the kenyan capital itself, 9 rubies on it seems a 60 minute dw, the w travel all over the side, 3 food, honest with inside a tips. nicole. hi, nice. well, let's go. here we go. lower so when it comes to sustain efficiency information and trying to do that, when you travel, you can have it all on executive. it has to check the bag. so you're planning a trip to make sure you miss nothing about is on the w travel. i hope you enjoy the

trip here as much as i did. what about you? what's your opinion? feel free to write your thoughts in the come in the mountains of a foaming river for realtor to watch. so this is far too much. hello and welcome. i am so the body and you all watching for him. yeah. and i am reading them off the lease on this is that you see it on me. it's for news. if i take them off for my eyes on the problem.