his answer has become one of hemingway's best known quotes, he said gradually and then suddenly regimes they can also go bankrupt. consider bosher, alo, son's syria, for more than a decade of solids. route was marked by civil war, including the use of chemical weapons against his own people. the brutality had no end until it did. in hindsight, the power of assad ended gradually. and then it ended sudden. i'm breaking off in berlin. this is the day i, it's the highest, it's clear to the chapter for syria has not yet been written in the outcome of the revolution as syria is not set. syrians have a georgia comp take for nearly 14 years. they deserve a political verizon that will deliver a peaceful future, not more flood should come off necessary and citizens. we hired for security and

safety across all of syria to live in peace and comfort without any extended interference. also coming up, alleged in climate for the uncovered by dw. tonight, we have evidence that carbon credit's worth more than a 1000000000 euros did not actually help curb greenhouse gases. setting up a real project cost tens of millions where it's vacant and project just purely on paper. like out of seen air, you only need to forge of basket of new documents and you gain hundreds of millions of heroes and return on to our viewers watching on cbs in the united states and of all of you around the world. welcome. we begin today with reckoning, revenge and retribution in syria. on wednesday, the man who was attempting to fill the country's power backing him off in insight into what just is may look like in a post, a sog serious. today the leader of serious rebel couple issues said,

there would be no pardon for officials involved in the torture of people imprisoned under a saw off with l. sharah, previously known as of mohamed. how galani is asked other countries to hand over any officials who may have been involved and they've been and also fled from syria . now the 2 of us sides father, the late syrian president hafez assad, is also been set on fire images show rebel fighters. what is hometown of the, in the, i think he a providence followed by scenes of celebration. and as the international community calls for a peaceful transition in syria and factions, backed by foreign countries fight for control and territory. we're gonna have more of that in just a moment. but 1st i asked the w correspondent, still a mentor in damascus about how people they are now. feel about to me is the political power. what will power?

what do i hear when i talk to people is that there is really a wish for clarity these days. we really have to understand that this momentum here is really a meant some of uncertainty from when that one day to another. the old rules that have been in place for many, many years, not valid anymore. and people who are here a little bit waiting for, for what are the new rules and what will happen in the future. so they really wish for some clarity. and so i hear from some people, but they are at least positive that things are leading in affords direction and that they are some steps taken by forming this into room government for example. but of course, some people are all very concerned as well. is the steps that are taken at the moment of really leading into a better future or just a different future when i ask you about another part of the country in the town of

cards. uh huh. the team of else did syrian president bush all sides. father hafez to route for nearly 30 years before him. that team was set on fire. how have the rebels, how have they been dealing with other symbols of the regime that was just toppled? as we have to understand the could, the is the village where the former president last saw to and his family or from it isn't the hard to the end of a lot talk here and it is a region where many other ways of living. so it is a very or it was very violent action and dividing that message to woods the old regime. and they have been many other actions the last couple of days. maybe even if they were a little bit less linens, for example here. and i must, those people are tearing down old uh, images and big posters with the heads of the houses or the she, unless that was

a couple of days ago. royce office received people were storming presidential us here in damascus. there were destroying the furniture and just taking things out and really expressing the anger to what was the old regime, the future of serious. certainly this in time is very uncertain. the people that you've been talking with do, did they tell you that they're confident that the is when this rebels will be able to bring stability back to the country? do they trust them to attempt? it depends on the bits uh to him uh, i took and about will come in like the detail will come in like in detail um when it comes to economic development. uh, what i hear from people that they are a bit more positive and confident that things might lead in good direction. uh, as the new, uh, prime minister had the has promised uh that that should be an open market. um,

and that's where i should be connected to the global market again. so people are really hurtful for that when it comes to freedom of expression of freedom. afraid some people do, mentioned that they are bit worried because they're not very sure that this, the new complimentary really emphasized on rights who as they are promising. because uh we have seen is that h a t s and has uh, in its government and it live not often a or ways of photos of freedom of expression. and there has been some, some discretion of the of people see that we use is still a mentor in damascus for us tonight. stella, thank you and you know by natasha lynch. dante political scientists and professor of international relations and comparative politics at the university of essex. in english professor,

it's good to have you with this, let me ask by getting your take on the signals that are being sent out by the leader of the h t. s militia, given the group's background as an outside the affiliate. so it's, it's really interesting. the, the transformation that this group prior to your all shaw has had since they broke free from a major from that was an ok affiliated in 2016. in particular that we documented a sure austin on his public relations campaign to, to try to gain legitimacy to try to gain support from much of the rest of the world . that, that the group has moderated. that they are, they only have really ambitions in syria. the organization has tried to serialize itself and, and that the group main focus was that it was n t, a saw that it was empty is womach state. and that it was in g iranian militias.

when this group had governed it live province, it had governess somewhat authoritarian manner. and there were concerns that there were human rights abuses that had taken place. but there was some limited religious pluralism. and officially, i'm sure all has stated that he wants all syrians to, to feel comfortable. he's struck a conciliatory tone, a series of very, you know, complex country in terms of it's demographics. and in addition to being in the majority of syrians are error ups, but they're also curbs and interpret in the syrians, armenians. and i'm sure has trying to, to convey that all these groups will be welcome. so all of this type of language and rhetoric, of course is welcome use for you much the international need that is on what is in store for sure in transition. yeah, he's been described by some in the last few days is transitioning from easy hondas

to a fighter of hate to a group of spirits welding some of these and called him the deep deepak trooper of the middle east. how incredible do you think this apparent transition is being? can people believe him take him at his word to oh, certainly hard to say, but this transition has been taking place over the years now. it's not something that just happened overnight. there's been a gradual transition in moderation of this group, as i mentioned since 2016. and as the organization has actually engaged in finding with all kate out with is womach state. it is clear that it wants to rid itself with some of these jihad is owns. i think the bigger concern is whether or not this group and other groups are going to be able to, to run the country effectively and efficiently in such a way that they avoid the reemergence of these types of groups. these types of,

i don't know, i'm say, actors that could try to take advantage of this political and military vacuum. and not, of course, is what's going to be a constant pressure. and it's, and it's not just, you know, honest groups that could emerge and try to take control. but there are other groups that already effectively have control over syria. and it will be critical that whatever syrian government that emergent has a monopoly or was legitimate use of force over its territory. let me ask you a little bit about what happened in syria before it suddenly collapse and seems that the assad autocracy was a hollow shell. propped up by russia and the ron does that mean the various non state factions, which controlled territory before a sod of went, they were solved only ever solidly in control of their areas. so the kurdish forces that have been supported by the west. you control large parts of

north eastern syria and then you also have the syrian national army, which is supported by, by turkey. and it controls the parts of syria in the north that, that border turkey as well. so you definitely have certain territories that are under the control of these different groups to, to what extent this is stable, it's hard to predict. but a saw didn't have full control as you had noted. and overtime this military was under funded, it was not supported. it wasn't receiving training, russia got very distracted by its war. and ukraine, of course, in iran was being depleted of some of its energy and was focused on what was going on in, in, in got an in loving on a. and so as a result, and also because i saw was so inflexible and stubborn and unwilling to negotiate

a or create any kind of detox with, with turkey. turkey was able to give, these rebel rips the green light to go ahead with their death. and they were well aware of the fact that a saw had been severely weakened and other other groups, other violent long state groups and more legitimate groups. do indeed have a control over the territory. will syrians will they determine to verify their their future? and i ask that because of what we've seen in the past, and i'm thinking of a rush of iran, turkey, the united states, the gulf states is real. they've all played a role in shaping and crafting the syria that we knew a will. they continue to do so moving forward so that's certainly the hope of the trouble organizations that they'll, they'll be able to form some sort of government that is free from the constant modeling and influence of russia overran of israel. israel at the moment is already

deep into, uh, syria will pass the buffer zone, which they claim they are doing in order to neutralize the, the syrian navy and air force and so forth. so that there have been a constant mentally inserted, which i'm sure the revel groups and, and syrians would like to repel. there are over 7000000 stream using many of which are going to want to come back and they're going to want to shape serious future. but we seen that in these political and military vacuums, like if you look at what happened in the case of libya, when thousands of militias ended up emerging and then jocking for power and controlling little bits of territory. there's just been costs and instability, their consumer case in human as well as the violent non state groups cargo their own territory. and it's difficult to establish some sort of compromise or power sharing agreement. so it will be critical that there is bottom

up pressure coming from serious themselves to, to figure out what they want for their government moving forward. and to try not to allow too much for that. once professor natasha at least at the university of essex in england, professor, we appreciate your time and your insights tonight. thank you. thank you for having the, the end of the assad regime in syria. what does it mean for iran or shallow sod was more than a safe bet for the move us see where you made it possible for a run to project power. the proxy say run could always send weapons directly to hezbollah fighters in lebanon. for example, syria played a strategic rolling what is called the runs excess of resistance. but today you're on to supreme leader spoke for the 1st time about the rebel offensive. it ended decades of dictatorship and syria. and no surprise,

he put the blame on israel and the united states should be, it should be no doubt said what has happened in syria is the result of a join to america and then signing this plan for us. i have to be sure to beauty, the more you apply pressure to the resistance from the stronger it becomes easier that the more crimes you commit for the multi type and it becomes a certain shape. and then the more you fight against it, the more i think i found the low 9 die tells you with the help of power got to scope with the resistance with encompass the entire region more than ever before. all right, i want to put in now been have been to tell him he's a senior fellow, the foundation for the defense of democracies in washington dc. it's good to have you back here on the program, but we just heard this, the supreme leader was saying that it runs acts as a resistance is only getting stronger. now that aside is no longer in the picture.

i mean, what does he know that we don't know? mean what's your analysis that and it's a pleasure to be with you. well, in so many ways, this kind of hyperbole, it and, and brand new ya see what's expected. because this is companies. first, public speech after the fall of the assad regime in damascus, they will therefore little over half a century, and that was around sol, state ally in the middle east. after the 1979. is monica lucian. so they're trying quite hard to say phase for major strategic disease yet, but i would say respectfully, the facts tell a very different story, isn't that what mr. accommodate seems to be staying here. if you look at the northern tier of middle east, where the machine has crazier a co op than a whole host of proxies and many of them have lost the leaders to capabilities and are handicapped geographies, they operated. so the fax, the funded mentally, or ali akbar, very yaki a key advisor to how many, what's called a saw it in syria. and i'm quoting here, the golden ring of the resistance chain in the region. now i'm considering the

facts on the ground. would you say that it runs alliance now has completely falling apart? well, not only was it the golden chain, uh, golden ring and matching, but you've had a whole host of other political, religious and military officials, issue similar statements about the central ality of syria. and these nomic republic of the runs regional designs. you know, it's a forward operating base for the regime. security strategies are the logically or east and the regions at pushing out form forces and doing everything a can to fight these rallies off into the last airport to the last of the and or the last south asia and even sometimes, but, you know, make no mistake those are, are, are words that have less significant amounts of eggs on the faces of these revolutionary leads because they have lost that gold rig. israel's defense minister cots says that iran not only has itself to blame for the fall of a saw it, it'd be what,

what do you make of that? or indeed it does is fundamentally, this read the situation. i would say both regionally visa via more empower turkey, as well as locally with developments going on in northwest syria since that turkish brokerage. it's a stale major ceasefire or deconstruction agreement. also from about 4 years ago, the russians had a role in that as well. and so because the actual resistance and fundamentally running forward and security policy under these non public is that about building a better order is not about stabilized states. it's actually that creating instability of managing chaos that comes from that instability. they were fundamentally unprepared for what happened given as well as military successes, and the reason against him off against, as blah, occasionally even against iran, back militias. any rock as well as twice to get started with these. this was indeed a game changer. and if we look at all the things that have happened, the actions of resistance largely being demolished, russia not being capable of defending one of his close friends. we know the

incoming us president donald trump very hostile to the writing machine. just how born are boy, is iran and it's nuclear program. now, a while indeed, the last card in the deck really is a new credit card. these monica public, yvonne could do 2 things to try to offset the incoming. trump administration's desire to return to maximum pressure, which will need to have a significant regional component to it. i would say, respectfully, that was one of the areas where there was a shortcoming in max with the pressure one point out of the routine could either further expand, engaging, vertical and horizontal nuclear escalation ro, additional capabilities and try to even recognize and try to threaten the trumpet with this ration with that and try to force them to not pay attention to the region and only deal with a nuclear. and the 2nd is that they may be trying to attempt trump with some level of limited and get their diplomacy. they get past the october, 2025 step back deadline and create visuals within the transatlantic community and

lock up america's most powerful economic, political, and military tools. through the prism of the deal, i heard to compensator and say earlier asked earlier today, how worried should the move laws be? i mean iran leaders, they, they see what happened to serious regina they, they have to be asking themselves, are we next? what do you say? and i would say indeed there's actually commentary by regime a lease of political leads and a whole host of youtube or as telegram channels. they're asking precisely the same question and they're having a rather open debate about it. i mean, if you paid particular attention to harmony's remarks today, he's even pointing out the difference between diaspora, media and local media coverage of the crisis and syria and the political implications. he's even talking about people any wrong needing to be prosecuted as committing, quote, unquote, thought crimes or, or speech crimes for deflating the morales of these nomic republic and the acts of resistance by pointing out this gaping hole that it's regional strategy. so making

a mistake, what's bad for the acts of resistance is, was bad for sod is, was bad for these monica public, which is their patriot. and the reasoning was trying to prevent the contagion effects. because anything that is also bad, but he's not a good public, is also quite good for the running population, you've seen the 0 sum mentality in multiple rounds of the state street versus state protests, even in 2018 when a running protesters chanted, forget syria. think about us been have been totally good with the foundation for the defense of democracies in washington dc. we appreciate your time tonight in your inside sites. you thank you. the carbon credit. they're supposed to be a tool and an incentive to get industries to reduce the greenhouse gas emissions, so that is what they are supposed to do. they are not designed to facilitate fraud investigations along with the german public broadcasters. adf reveal how german authorities may have been tricked with the credits. it all started with

a tip off. the chinese company had developed environmental projects at oil fields in china that were supposed to save millions of tons of carbon emissions. in reality and inside our told us, they were part of a 1000000000 euro fraud. setting up a real project cost tens of millions where it's vacant and project just purely on paper. like out of senior, you only need to forge of basket of new documents. and you gain hundreds of millions of bureaus and return the projects were submitted under a german scheme, allowing companies here to meet their admission targets by investing and carbon saving projects abroad. in the months long investigation dw and its partners, adf acquired thousands of pages of project documents and compared them with satellite images and photos. we found 16 projects, which should not have been eligible under the germans came mind because they were

not building something new. take this project in china is shouldn't young region the station collects gas that would otherwise be released during oil extraction. saving more than a $120000.00 tons of carbon emissions a year. the application lists the planned project start date, september 2020 but satellite images from 2019 so that the plant was already there. the 4 l. n g tanks are clearly visible. truck tracks and the security flair suggest that the site was in fact operational more than one year before the application in germany was filed. this project should never have been approved. it's not acceptable for the plan to already exist before the application was submitted. and yet, germany's environmental agency green lighted, as well as 65 other project in china. their total market value is an estimated $2000000000.00 euros. the agencies president direct messner,

told us that none of its employees ever visited any of the projects in china. they relied on the audits conducted by private companies. we only have 3 colleagues in the federal environment agency who deals with all of these projects, the type of a context protecting code data and any detailed uh into context satellite images. either we cannot say for sure whether the auditing companies were in on the front. but what we did find were many in consistencies in their reports. take this project, which was supposedly visited by auditors 7 times in their reports, they confirmed that the installation consisted of 6 big storage tanks and 12 generators. with satellite images and photos we acquired only ever show for tanks and for generators. besides very unlikely things,

victor was on the side facing tanks, cons to be missing. so the inspectors didn't do their job. absolutely not. or even was the order time should be suspended. been tied to elements within these companies to just become part of the deception that would be a worst case scenario. the german environment agency has placed 45 projects under suspicion and says it is now working to resend as many of the credits as possible. the program is close to new applications. the full damage has yet to emerge. one thing, however, is already abundantly clear. it didn't take a lot to defraud a system that was supposed to make a dirty industry, a little cleaner. and remember what ever happens between now and then tomorrow is another day we will see you then everybody the

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that's okay, that's the nanda foundation, one bucks to the find out about me being a story in some language. reliable news for migraines. wherever they may be, the cause of good old days of the west, german economic miracle, and the 1915th. when the government promised prosperity for 10 years ago, germany was still the world's top exporter. but a series of setbacks, the coven pandemic, the war and ukraine can. the energy crisis have left the countries industry, 100 clinic cost and pressure kind of gets back on track. also on the show, green hydrogen po, for hype, solar power via cable, a viable undertaking, plus.