and why did they have all the time? i should just search the day and take them out where i mean, that's the spelling briefing and time. and we asked the question whether europe is actually caring about what's happening in georgia right now. more than 300 arrest, the european union says, thousands of people on the streets. we're recording this on thursday as a protest and to day 15 in the georgia and capital tbilisi. and i'm very pleased to have on the line from right that i'm back to the georgia dream. so he's a senior fellow at the george and foundation for us to t ticket international studies. and here in the studio with me, i have mrs. tuan, he's a phone correspondent in moscow on berlin for the site and we clean news magazine for he's also been in tacky for that magazine. now he most recently also wrote

a big book on vladimir putin revenge as you puts it. so you put some perspective in connection with the rush, so therefore us, but 1st i want to ask and box it up a dream. what is happening right now in the georgia and capital? but thank you for having me up. at the moment, people are preparing to go back to the rest of valley avenue. a usual place where myself and tens of thousands of george's congregate every every evening and trying to reach out to the one of the dictator initiate and tell him that it is time for him to go. that we would not stand idly as he is consolidating a state of capture. this is exactly what he considers as the

oligarchs dream, although his part is called the georgia dream. but what he has done is an oligarchs 3. and also it is a russian dream. like you mentioned a yes, a hooting views event, sri and he's reaching as he's revenge on the freedom loving georgians who tried to break away from his cereal fluids and who basically are getting in a way of his project of making russia great again or the project that is supposed to substitute his inability to deliver the quality of live life standards to his citizens. and he's now basically replacing a decent living for russians by installing this idea of great to russia events. really, of course, he is. the only god choose founded the georgia dream pot to which one the october

elections. there are question marks over how free that the environment and these elections we saw in an extra report that said that there was a lot of intimidation. but the o. s. the, the organization who sent observers the stop sort of course of declaring these elect since not free and said nobody's calling for a repeat of these elections of the same time. there are concerns over this and that particular concerns over these arrest and violence against demonstrate, as i mentioned, i want to bring you in here because we saw him on with my call. cool. mr. yvonne is really on wednesday and voice concerns over the violence and actually asking for the country to enter a dialogue at taking into account also the opposition concerns. this is actually one european state, acting alone. apart from that we seen statements of concern also from kaya kyle us,

the new hi representative for foreign policy in the european union, but of the rules of other european countries. apart from that phone cool, we've only seen victor old bond travel that and basically congratulate mr. yvonne, it should be, he's a friend of his. so what do we make of how europe is positioning itself to? what's georgia right now? well, i, i think europe is severely distracted and not paying enough attention to what's happening now. because georgia is it pivots country in the region, and it's a pivotal country for, for europe as well. um and not only if we look at the caucasus region but also be younger, sent to asia and, and what i think is was overdue. dot president my call called but i think of the european leaders should call as well. and the european union should get involved more strongly. i understand, of course,

that the european union was in a state of transition over the past weeks and months. but now the new commission to definitely get engaged and not let russia basically organize the field and, and the political, the, the political opposition and on and support the government against the opposition when they are doing very actively. now we bumped into each other at a foreign ministry briefing we did, which was on a very different topic of but the, the argument was that look the european farm and it says i'm meeting next monday. that is talk that, that could potentially be talk with sanctions that it what's also potentially on the table is that a visa using a visa applications could be revoked, but we do know, i mean, this is, this is,

will be moved in the almost the 3rd week into the protests of what we have heard though, is we've heard from the native secretary general mock bruce, who let's just take a listen to what you said. what i'm seeing at this moment is that a large are making clear that any actions that undermine democracy in georgia or to take democracy further. also issue up to more e u, a natural integration, you atlantic integration. so to say that a really a search to georgia and governments to stay on the path de decide of a couple of years ago, but to be active home and not to retreat. now this is interesting because together with ukraine, georgia was now in for leslie denied the path towards nato membership. it's no one knew that. and then of course, with parts of georgia, occupied by russian forces. and this is not going to be on the costs any time soon, but about that i would like to bring you in. how much did the opposition,

how much did protest is on the street, and feel of protected and accede backed up by this statement. with your permission, could i go back to your previous state? sure, uh, with, with a respectfully disagree. first of all the or c, it has not published its final state. no, but the initial report is out and, and in the end, the most important charge and the reason why are hundreds of thousands of georgians protests. the selection, n y o of george's allies are extremely concerned is exactly that. this vote was stolen. we're not talking about minor irregularities and intimidation. we're talking about volts dipping in floating by direct balance stuff thing, which is we do that we have to visit on the record, including by multiple voting by individuals hired by the georgia dream

and supplied with tens of ideas and bossed around various voting precincts, et cetera. it's what the systemic rigging, volt stealing, which fundamentally changed to up to come georgia in the past never had ideally smooth the elections. but this is probably the 1st one which in which the government basic. ready they stole the outcome of the vote. that is the problem. and number 2, we have many, actually, most of our georgia's partners have said that the, the georgia assorted diesel. actually i, i wouldn't call them the government. and the sort is now a dfcs to government, which has no legitimate basis of running the country. the whole idea is that we are the mom to the re, from all the election under the international supervision. and these,

these demands are coming also from our allies. and yes, it's the one who's friends with all sort. so all sorted happy and review and dictators is the only one who embraced even is really and his claim. uh, based on his own uh, values i guess um, but it's uh, it's nowhere near uh any sort of international, legit, immunization. so this is where we are now. the georgian people, george's allies. oh, the mon, the reader on all the election. even those who haven't officially recognized this election as illegal none have recognized the vote as, as a democratic and a binding. so we are now in this impasse, what we need, the human is really are seem to back down. and the main idea of a present across

a phone call was to somehow encourage yvonne is really doris thing, his region position. and as to your question, uh, actually, but would also correct on the back of you mentioned the 300 people were detained. hundreds more were detained over 300 people with vote to lead, beaten by the police as after the way to detain. because this has become a texting, so the government of trying to intimidate people for the mass. beatings 1st by the right police, then they changed tactics because they saw that people are not afraid, they're still there. we're still coming back to us that any of the new then they employed the so called to escape the a thoughts the nation aries, which were 1st so in your grading and stuff 14, which were hunting people in the allies. and so kind of brutally beating them up

that didn't work either. at this stage, they are trying to approach this with intimidation, with individual lead the actions against activists, or even sometimes a random people whoever have shown at the raleigh. whoever have any sort of influence for us is a well known people that are trying to create this atmosphere of fear by bringing legal criminal charges or administrative charges against individual young people. but we're not afraid we'll be back or somebody this night as well as that. i'm grateful for your intervention. that at the point i'm trying to make is that although it was an unusually strong statement from the observers and i myself have been in the past and election observer in 2004. i was in elections of it's over in georgia. it was very strong. but neither the always, the ease of which russia is

a member. know the european union which has verified 300 people are being arrested . i'm going by those official figures has officially called for a repeat of the elections and we have the next elections coming up. this saturday, so this leaves us in a situation we have what we have an individual lead. i'm on with my call. cool on these rest to stop the harassment of people who are on the streets to stop and no violence. but he too, has not called for a repeat of the election. so let me say, where does this leave the responsibility of european countries and what kind of signal does this this moment in time send to moscow? which of course, still continues to see georgia as it's frontier. well,

the problem is that we see most calls banking entirely of the present government, which has been elected in a c, v manipulative direction. i think this is what we can clearly say state and, and i've given all to the fact that the exit polls indicated some 40 percent for the georgia dream and then it was 53 in india. in the end, it was 13 percent more, something we have never ever seen in any democratic election during the election night. but anyway, so we see that most call clearly takes us down. it's a strong stance supporting this government. it's by a government, by all means, where is the european union tries to somehow stay in contact with the government and on the other hand calls for dialogue, but of course stops fault but is stopped short of, of any,

any direct interference. so we are basically playing by the rules, whereas most call is not, and this is exactly the same claim book a playbook we have seen in, in, in 2014 ukraine where moscow was not playing by the play and violating rules and interfering in all kinds of, of ways, ways, european politicians. yes. clearly they appear on the might on and as also some european politicians appeared on other stuff really boulevard these days. but there is so it's, it's, it's in on the even playing field. that's what i wanted to say. and, and i think we have to reconsider the measures and, and the approach we're having given the very aggressive stance of russia, so on surprising the, i'm glad you mentioned ukraine. we're hearing very different action and a very different tone coming from voting is the lensky. you cranes present on

georgia. let's take a listen to that issue. and i have just signed a degree that gives effect to the national security and defense counsel decisions insane. since these sanctions target the part of the trojan government, that is surrendering, tried to put the business to very issue that disputing the protests in charge of right now. it is crucial that our partners also voice to position, now openly declaring what is happening and action must be taken. so ukraine on the baltic states and imposing sanctions. the your opinion is not speaking with the united vote voice. i wanted through that back to you in busta. what impact is not having on how this is playing out in georgia particularly ahead of ki elections on south today. where the current president is saying she will not let herself be voted out of office until there is a repeat of these that next. the 1st of all,

george's believes that it is up to us uh to a wing back our freedom. we are not counting by the way on any meaningful action by the or see which while includes russian. it's not realistic to expect even a document that would be very plainly stating the facts. number a number to even the european union. i uh, they have gary and for administer the 2 days ago said plainly that he's country with blog, any sections including on those stocks, perpetrating this crimes against peaceful demonstrators. so both institutions are basically hostages of all the elements within which, which have very strong conflicts of interest,

including regarding georgia and regarding the democracy in, in general. and yes, individual countries now have been voicing their strong support with the georgian people and a specific measures against the representatives of the regime as for the so called election, oh, the president. as you probably are aware that there will be no election, it will be the appointment of the new president by the electoral council, which is directly at 100 percent controlled by registry. and this means that as long as there's a deadlock is in place as long as legit with georgia lex, a legitimate parliament and the government, there will be no real new president. and this is why president sellers would obviously as about to stay in her position as long before

before she gets a proper, legitimate replacement. so, and i think she can count on for support of the georgian people. i think the at the center of the provost actions will move towards the presidential palace. um, when, when this happens, when the government. ready will announce the appointment of the new phone, the president, and by the way, it is quite symbolic. that missed a varnish, really has selected the least qualified person. you can imagine to hold that even though symbolic, but very important is jewish and a former footballer, but also a lot even of a better one among the footballers. very mediocre fuller in the past. and the

person who failed to run for the presidency of the football association of georgia because the he lacks at education, as all i know, just a higher degree. but any education, he's basically illiterate and this is an insult to the georgia people. a final insult, a very symbolic gesture on part of the wellness. really, this is what he thinks of george's democratic institutions. this is a classical stage capture. many people compare the candidate for the president to a very famous horse, from the history, from the roman history and actually, well because the one issue is law for animals and his private zoo. uh, and he's going to affinity toward zebra z here. we usually, these are referred as a, eventually zebra, but, but the situation is, is not funny at all. i just want to put this into context. mr. event is really,

he's, he's essentially an all the guy who made his fortune in russia. he's now live in georgia, he's famous or infamous for apparently owning a zebra and collecting old trees, which are transported from all out of the country to his estate, which is above the capsule. at to please see there's a cable call, which i'm told is not functioning at the moment which leads up to his estate and he overlooks the capital. so it's, it's a bit of a james bond like kind of scenario. and now we have the current precedence telling me, is there a piece of the warning that there actually is it tera and she says tara, on the citizens of georgia on the use and various segments of society. we're speaking here on says a, a mission. we're heading up to such a day where there will be these presidential elections, which by all looks and means will lead to constitutional crisis in the country. if

we have this conflict of who is actually legitimately elected, i just want to, we put this question to the spokes person of the german foreign minister at a press conference here on wednesday. and this is the response we got or so then when she gets loud, so i believe we have made our position on the events in charge of very clear. just a few days ago there was a statement from the foreign ministers of divine law trying. and to, to surely not gone unnoticed, that the question of how to deal with georgia is on the agenda for the european union council of ministers. next monday is ultimate. it's still hot, so it will patient when you, when i'm this one. so on monday, and that statement also issued and that it expressed concerns. we also had that from the spokesperson of coyote colors, the representative of for foreign affairs, of the, your opinion, the newly appointed and but doesn't go beyond that. so does,

does europe have this time or what is going on? well, i'd say in from, seen from this respect that we will have as of set to day, probably 2 presidents of georgia as well as what obviously and, and the football star we, the european union has then time to reflect on sunday and decide on monday on whom to recognize or who to support and because i'm sure the answer from moscow will be of course we support the new the elected president and mrs. who obviously would be voted out of office. so um, but as we have a constitutional crisis and there are many doubts about the legitimacy of the new parliament, all this has to be voiced by the foreign ministers and, and i think also kind of tendency, has to be

a be visible on who they support because i think your upcoming to stay aloof and stay neutral on this question. as other interested parties of so active at hand over you will have a veto. that's fine. definitely. so but um it's, it's always possible that if we, if we found that many times and we know that because hungry and because victoria old on is basically acting awfully id me, approved teams behalf on every foreign policy issue. and as, as, as prudence and basset to the you and it's, it's, it's a general procedure that then other european countries would come together and basics and come out with a statement. we do that also on many different issues in the world. so why not in this, in this case? i'm boston of entry, and so what would be your expectation?

what would help georgians, those who are risking their own security by going onto the streets as well. i think the most important part is for the european nations and their union to stay true to their principles. georgia is fighting for is a democratic future at georgia is a front line country of democracy. this also needs to be taken account. it's not an isolated far away country or which you have those little that it will directly affect your interest. so it's a mixture, combination of value space policy and also strict geo politics. and both should be taken into into account. and it looks like russia traditionally unders to the value of georgia to the european union, better than many european countries themselves. for instance, george's international faction as

a breach between the white or black c region and the wider casting. c region, the central asian region of so rich with the resources. so rich with huge untapped economic potential. and georgia is basically the link, the only link between these 2 last regions that would gain of div access to the central asian nations toward the european markets. the old site, brushing control or outside the running control and the same same goes for the european union. we are the way of reaching out to these nations and how this would help further diversify energy imports and in the health center of energy security. oh, they are in union there's 2 and i cannot tell, but to connect again was to the,

the record, this is not a football star. georgia has many football starts. he's not one of them is a former mediocre football, her plate and in russia. okay. while he played and i, i the, if he was the best of football say i think that wouldn't qualify him necessarily for the because it wasn't close and you were, there will be some point the i'm being able to take the we have like i said, georgia is a great foot bullying. they says we have many football so that's including those who played in germany. the who play now in italy and a half when um the, but the big italian championship who play in england, who plain spain i, we have many football stars and we have many retired bootable stuff. he's not one of the from the gentleman point of view, let me say that funds back invalid was good that he was kaiser,

but that he never became john. so let's just agree that being able to play football as an add on for a politician and not the q fall if the case. and that was button briefing for this week, we'll be back in 7 days time. and you'll find us on youtube at dw news on dw thought to come by and briefing an old major podcast platforms once a week from now on woodson. if you don't want to wait another week for news on the current dumb and political drama and the german view on the events worldwide, we've also got a dw button and briefing news so. so do sign up for that and thank you very much. i the to the points, strong opinions, clear positions, international perspective. the rebels take damascus, the dictates of slaves to moscow. can syria a fine priest after 14 years of war?

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