[000:00:00;00] the some german woods make it into the global vocabulary and that i can think of a recent example of cause or life shorts. the gym chancellor, quaint the 10 titan vendor off to russia's full scale invasion of ukraine share that can you think of a couple of examples demeron was international use? well, there's the usual kindergarten, i guess, but nothing at all that side geist and that's a sudden the change on the german august is also really pretty tons of all these days. yeah. but there's also kitch, for example, you know, the gang a is,

it doesn't what. sometimes it's not just what sometimes it's entire sentences that make it into the global discussion. and we've got a famous example right now that kicks off of this episode with teas, india, and these, the thing i hope i'm getting was i was side, the terms of feelings khrushchev, this often does this often does on phones as las vegas the most, as if i wouldn't be a it's hello. well that's the german. yes, we can. nothing to do with the bama and that was bank of america on the 31st of august 2015, also known as the summer of migration. and just a few days later, i was actually in hungary where the buses came busing. people mainly from syria to the buddha, with austria who then travelled onto germany. and now almost 10 years later, some 1000000 syrians are here and looking back at the country and wondering,

do we want to go back? can we go back? is it safe? what will happen? absolutely, and you'll also have to say that the discussion has changed, of course, because of the full in syria of the a thoughts. and we want to bring in the, our ex puds for today rough. i have both some rough idea of what, what do you say when do we stand 10 years late to often go american made that famous statement that by the way it will so it has a we can get entry now even in english. yeah. all right, that's a pick entry. well, obviously it's very politicized. how you answer that question. um, i personally would say that of course they are quite a lot of remaining issues depending on, you know, maybe the market access leaving martin positive plus the patients channel. busy capacity of the german state to host not only syrians, but many,

many other refugees. and while equally the different areas in practically, of course, that also means to craniums. so in that sense, there are many open sort of sort of construction sides, let's say. so we kind of say done that check box at the same time, i think this kind of fundamental optimism that medical tribes project of the time is, or i think about it. i mean, i don't want to be not if you're, but germany is still some minor. um, you know, disturbances functioning. there is no breakdown of the wealth of state or public order or you name it. um, but of course some political actors try to protect trying the strange, most, such, so in, in the long run, of course, these kind of issues are only really be able to be so clearly opposite. yep. even more 10 or 20 years down the line. so i think we've made the 1st stretch now over.

busy time when really there is the question of how many of those people who came back then will be actually become long term. and fully part of the drug society will become. busy emmons and then with that children we will see uh how actually this old pens out. so it's a matter of 2 or 3 generations. um, so it's still an ongoing process. i think we're on a journey and we have a long way ahead, but i think it's something we can still manage just i just want to throw in there. um some figures to back up what you're just saying. i think the and everybody can decide for themselves whether they feel that germany actually made it. it was almost $1000000.00 people who came today, 42 percent of syrians, uh, parts of the labor market. so that is actually a below average. although there's some distortion in those statistics because many

of also become german citizens and they are no longer in the migratory statistic. and they are the 2nd largest group of migrants ukraine. there's more than a 1000000 ukrainians here in germany. and a very low number of, of the ukrainians is actually entered the labor market already despite the fact that they are culturally and also language wise, much more easily and able to integrate into tell me. now currently we have this debate on whether they should have easy access into the german social system. but almost a decade on many syrians who a highly qualified and, and to bring it back to the political level. the prime minister who stayed on from the side regime cooling on syrian is to come back to showing them that it's safe. so clearly asking what is perceived to be an elite, highly skilled people to come back to rebuild syria. yeah, and interestingly of course,

as also overwhelming support for the idea here in germany to keep skilled people who have found jobs in the country. and it's not just a general interest because you find that people interesting, actually, their entire sectors here in this country that depends on skilled workers who have come to the country in recent is and all colleagues do this. so daily actually looked at the situation in the health sector because the, the federal minister for health warns of to the full of the side cruising, and that if syrians where to leave germany, then we would lose a big, big chunk of people who have crucial jobs in the health sector, this is a far cry from is works treating war injuries in the syrian civil war. but in 2015, a lot of stuff left of the mask is hospital where he'd worked to come to germany. now a doctor on an emergency war,

just east of berlin. the 38 year old treats very different injuries. still the german hospital now feels like home. it feels like a big family. that's what i need it actually. and we have like we, we, we experience a lot of things together like emergencies, some they are about and worse than others. some of this are great. so that's what i liked this identity ross. i need also, and i get it here in addition to a great team. so i couldn't ask for more of the off is one of the around 6000 syrian doctors in germany who work in hospitals or doctors offices. syrians make up the largest group before and doctors in the country, and now the sudden fall of the aside regime as raise the question, what would happen to germany's health care system if these doctors begin returning to syria, a family, and then a conk, and hose on a fuss selections that would have the same problem and almost all of hospitals where vacancies are difficult to fill because of demographic trends. we have an

aging population, including among doctors who are leaving the profession, and relatively few younger ones are coming in. which is why we are dependent on doctors from e, you know, you countries and movies. uh, that's hospitals. supervisor says he has become an essential member of her team. she says has experience back in war torn syria sets him apart. but if he returned, she would lose a valuable colleague and a friend. i don't think our house and cooks the wife is all those colleagues from other countries would go back home. even now with all the certain doctors here in all hospitals, we were looking for colleagues as das was overjoyed when you heard about the end of besides regime. but he says it's too early to tell whether he will go back. i can tell you i or i can assure you others that you know, like many other of sir young people in germany, not only doctors,

but syrians in general, a blog to go back to a home which is stable, where we can live like in some dignity so if our home could provide that in the next few years, i think a lot of people would consider going back today as off has german citizenship and says it's place right now is in germany doing the job he loves, but he is full of optimism for serious future and says he can't rule out going back one day. so rough i am, we've just looked at the health sick to that, but the syrians also work, for example, as crucial people when it comes to putting up a solar plans in germany. can you just give us an idea of how significant the syrians are for the gemini economy and which jobs they have as well. i mean the many studies and just yesterday there was another headlines saying

that at least $18000.00 syrians, so might be more or less than $1.10 or more. um, of so registered cv nationals and then there are some germans by now are working in critical sectors and whatever critical sectors are as also subject to the bank. we know this discussion from corona um but meaning logistics, meaning care, work, meaning construction and so on. so forth, so things that keep the country running basic things, but yeah, i mean it's always a dilemma. the ceiling, of course, as well me, it's really a qualified workers and people who bring skills and bring you and i'm having to you perhaps of the country. so, really conscious, be selfish and say we want them, we want to keep them and so on, so forth. and at the same time, for those or maybe thinking about migration rather differently. of course stories as we just heard are sometimes sort of received as i look,

we only hear about the model cases. but for all of us, there are others who are jobless and are receiving welfare. and we also have to acknowledge that there are a lot of them who haven't caught them yet about time of participation in the labor market. so it is a mixed picture and for germany, for serial course. and it will take time and not only to take time here for yet more integration and also said for 2nd or 3rd generations. i mean there are also many syrian children ref being born here. i don't know the country back home, but also of course for syria itself. so it's just the beginning and hopefully a reason to be stable beginning, but it's too early to tell. and syria, while it hasn't needs for people to return. also just couldn't absorb if there was a large movement going back home now. so i think, well of course the debate is hotmail um. experience shows these issues really need

a long. busy perspective to, to, to work house and i think that also needs to be really clearly communicated with the political space. uh, uh, yeah, and i just wanna add, uh, this clearly is it premature debates. while we see on the boat uh with lebanon, many people returning back to syria because that also actually being pushed out by the di conditions that is very different. and here in germany they, there was a pull done that so that 90 percent of people actually wouldn't want to go back right now i've been taught to am classified briefing with the diplomats who actually already travel to syria. there was this german missing there . and i can say that the conditions they described in my perception of unlikely add to a lead. anyone who's currently in safety with stable or food supplies, services,

health supplies at to be in any rush to head back to syria. so time will tell. and, and this is exactly the question right now, because we don't even know which political group will get the up behind at the moment. and this is a rep, good h t s, which is coordinating it's, it's kind of, it's a grouping of different factions. so at the moment it's the moment for big politics in that region and seeing which way this country will go. yeah. and yet in simply off to also sell the debate started here in gemini, was going to happen to the ceilings. and we sort of very different conservative cd you potty compared to what we had earlier if you think about i'm going mackerel and how he said, well obviously we're going to welcome people who need protection into this country

. and now the focus of the debate by the current leader of the conservatives has changed. and in spawn, one of the former ministers here in the federal government of ungrammatical. a. he came out very, very clearly saying we can pay everybody who's willing to return a 1000 bureaus and we'll book child for flights and then we'll take them back and very much setting the tone for the debate. yeah, the when you, when you put it like that, you fast forwarding almost a decade of developmental. so with, i'm gonna within, i'm going to macros. complicated was not is yeah, it's um because of what we did see policy wise is that assign them knows what tightens and throughout and not just by the conservative souls. exactly. democrats, yes, also says the democrats so, and that is at the end of the development, and we are entering in the election campaign where migration will play and is already playing as usual. yeah, of course. i mean,

we're looking at snap elections here in germany on the 23rd of february this week of schools. this is a violin briefing, so this week also. so all i've chose, the devin child's will lose the requested confidence vote in bonus tag. so officially, he then went to the gym president and said, all right, can you quote for us elections? and obviously when you listen to the debates happening and the buttons talk this week, you can tell that all out to win as many vote as they can from the far left to the far right. but because of the events in syria, this topic migration is of course, has very, very high onto the agenda. and that was a, that was a debate and one of the stock, and we've got a summary. let's just listening. and the one hand, serious seems far away as on the other hand, very, very many people have come to us and recently yet. but this is important to me.

people have been living in our country for decades, including colleagues among us here, whose families and friends have been victims of this, a sub for z m. this is another reason why the phone of this was the most important and good news for the people here. and so i'm just glad you mentioned you can go. it's nice say that gemini has a special interest in a good piece of development of syria for 2 reasons. on the one hand, because we started for reason, rails right to exist. because we want stabilization in the region for this region in particular that it protects as well as existence. and secondly, because we have so many refugees in our country. sponsor laptops aside had badly arrived in moscow when the city you was already demanding departure and sent of my friend. mister hi, you need to hear this bob. what exactly is the point of this and the current debates? why are you unsettling to many syrians who are here?

why are you unsettling the money skilled work is we have we have siri and roots. they are keeping our country running low con, seriously send people who meet the requirements of employment, immigration back to syria, in order for them to apply for a visa, and then re enter germany. and we cannot seriously say to the employer is invested that hard work robot. tammy is invested in money to train people in the accommodate them. so they now have to get rid of the syrian to work for them through the syrians who are integrating. recognize that basic law i provide for them livelihood . all welcome here, but unfortunately, this is not the largest group and the lie that every syrian is a skilled worker and has long since collapsed. so, why is the re migration of syrians who are not willing to integrate in germany's interest and above all in the interest about pension is we have a 1000000 syrians in the country dealing many of those people who have come here because by, with seeking protection that especially those who have been naturalized, who are integrated, he has

a positive ass assigned to it and we will defend that. so titles and then there are people from sylvia who want to go back to the home country at some point to help build this up. because it is at home that month because they feel a duty to that home language. we also support the home mode, but so i told you i'd be more than $100.00. 60000 people from syria become german citizens, according to the federal employment agency. as of may of this year, more than $226000.00 servings, when proper jobs, they also work mainly in occupations whether a shortages, 22 percent of syrian men work, mainland transport and logistics profession. it's 14 percent work in the food in hospitality industry. 11 percent work in health care and 9 percent and construction . 28 percent of syrian women work in social professions, for instance, as educators and 80 percent work in health care. if these people all have to leave us and it will be really docked you. so let me show you that we also do have to

acknowledge that the big crimes that or that have been crimes committed by syrians in germany that made big headlines. and of course had an impact on the debate. yes, and they had an impact. they came actually in the run up to retail elections here in germany. we sold that attack by a young syrian mine in zoning and, and this sparked a huge debate here in germany also about the effectiveness of the german system. you should no longer of been in germany cause he entered the european union to a different country. so we deal sorties basically failed to, to send them back. and it raised a lot of questions over the risks and about radicalization. although experts highlight this, a lot of this rec, radicalization is actually happening within germany. it's not people necessarily coming from outside to over the radicalized. having said that, what we're seeing also in this debate is that the whole question of

asylum seekers coming is a transition in real time from an asylum debate to a migration debate, a debates. what protection is germany willing to give people to what migraines, what kind of migrants this germany need in terms of skill sets? and it was, it probably is in germany's interests. right. and this is a decade that we didn't have for decades. we think about the circled guest workers in the 19 sixty's, but everybody expected them to leave people from tacky italy and so on. and of course now they have grandchildren here who they may be talking to them in society . absolutely. yeah. but there was no, there is recognition that germany actually is a country of immigration. and i think that's what you probably pointing to that when you look at the debate about the syrians in germany, you can really see the struggle that germany still has,

in terms of defining its own interest. when it comes to say, we need skilled labor, we need people from abroad. we want is of us society, but we want to be more in control of who actually comes here. we also don't want to give up on our values. so we do want to give people protection here a rough i what has changed in your view point, how have you followed this debate? well, yes, this is a long term development. i think i would slide disagree that you know, this debate about germany being or content migration. i think that's shifted already for some more time than just in the last, you know, say 3 or 4 years. um, but of course has accelerated events become ever more sort of open and um i think one for the 1st point of reference i would come back to not only in terms of like

long term so the. busy work is probably in the sixty's, but it's also the experience, remainder of the ninety's with refugees from the why. so he was live. yeah. who then also in large numbers came to germany and cost the 1st sort of asylum crisis in the commerce. and i think from that time we certainly have moved on and even those conservative actors that are now stressing the need to return people or assist wanting to return. they are not i think where they have a thought tried when really awesome and ninety's. we have very many heart broken, heartbreaking stories about people who were living in germany for years of integrative and then that were forcibly, or these try to be the ports. and i think what's shifted now is that, you know, in the 2 thousands, i think germany with ups and downs and also the early 2000 tons were doing rose, if you, well, you know, academically up and down. but we profited the lot from migration from other

european countries. first, there was a large brand, and then there was the economic crisis where and lots of other european countries, you'll see nationals came to germany and invest filled our labor market. but this potential has been, you're running low and is actually mostly exhausted, and also from other, your neighboring countries. like there were some ball comes. and so i'm just kind of, i may have dropped non european migration also as an essential part to keep our economy running has come to the forge and like it was in the 60s. and that's where this kind of circle causes. and i think here we also still have to do some work. yes, i think it's totally legitimate and fine to say also we want to steer and manage the migration of the white. busy profit's, our welfare and our economy. but of course we also have to remember, we're not just getting robots and machines we're getting persons with i said with families. and they also not just here to work for us, but they will also want to have

a prize no society and they just have to integrate. but yes, they also have a ride to shape and contribute in the way that they seem fit so. so i think this is what we're seeing and that's while so on the conservative side or them even more to the right, this kind of utility is, you know, very much stress. and even if the vote is apparently the sample, the one to has people deported to are working to, to move beyond that, i'll say ok, but these are also going to be citizens in sometime in the next few years. and they also have a stake in this country beyond just being workers. and i think there we still have to do a good amount of work. but well, it's remains tense. i don't know where it's going to go, but i think this change and syria provides also an opportunity to have such a debate and not just see germany as this kind of human to terry. the actor which some of the right thing has gone too far and, and to bring it to the 4 that we really need these people as well. and so therefore

we have to change our response to somebody. and i think it always helps to fact to allies things. so roughly again, if you could just chat with us, the different categories of syria is that in germany, because that i think helps to differentiate. when you look at who we actually talking about when we ask the questions, you know, all syrians going to leave germany? yeah, yeah, i guess getting the technicolor me. so on the one hand, there are now drawing number of syrians who have become germans and we hospitalized soon. ships lost quite substantially over the last few years. so it used to be very difficult. and now it's actually quite liberal in comparison, also internationally. so basically after 5 years, and if you're integrated and you're provided for you all means of living and you have a chance. so that comes very real. so we,

we will have them for us here in germans as we had in the sort of cape on, on the hospital. and then we have a small group of people who are genuine, personal asylum. busy cases that we have a relatively large group about $200.00 something 1000 who are geneva convention refugees, which are sort of like asylum. refugees, though they are generally prosecuted. and then there is this large group of so called subsidiary protection. um, so this is what most people who don't work on this don't usually understand the difference between the geneva protection and the soup center protection. so this etc, protection basic needs, you don't necessarily personally are at risk in some particular category or because of your race or religion. but there are good reasons to say a return to your home country would be very dangerous because, you know, there was more, you might trust it to the army and so on. and this is a lower status of still allows you to stay. but of course,

is also established by chance could be potentially withdrawn more easily. like technically, you're still a very long legal steps to be taken. but if the general situation sir, is such that you can say the country as such is general dangerous. then this kind of category of subsidiary protection was 300. something 1000 could be potentially those who would be sort of told, well, now it starts to, you have to go back, but we have to be cute to the syrians. you have been kinda in germany that you know, just, you are not one block and some people are really have a stable stay in some way. well, it may change. but then also, um, of course is a process of years. busy you can also do your part to, you know, move from one category to the other end on the german side. um yes, as well as also mentioned this on the start debate. we have different groups people her work. don't people have different protection status and we need to have this fine, great understanding. so i think that's, that's

a mature of migration debate. i think that we are working towards. so thanks very much as the today at raphael. and to me say that here in the studio and over there in tale. and maybe if you want to think of words that you find interesting. devin was the all your favorite and jasmine was because we started with the a shelf and does the site and then and asked to let us know what your favorite 7, what is right to us. or you can send an e mail to newsletter at the w dot com. you can also find those on youtube. at dw news, there is a news less a bell and briefing newsletter that comes out to stay. so make sure you subscribe. that's at a dw dot com valid and briefing, and next week we will be back here in the studio with an episode on the far right, a if d, and we'll give you everything that we think you should know about the policies, so that you're well informed but of course,

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