the impending currency starts your offline even get in the it's button briefing time just as a 5 weeks before demons go to the polls and those snap elections. so high time to talk about those election programs of the various parties. and that's why i have the full quote of political correspondence with me here in the studio to talk about those election programs, which i read by very few voters and very few politicians in the end actually stick to them. that's why we'll talk about the dynamics in this election campaign. and i want to just introduce julia. so deli who's here with me, matthew mole. i have, and nina has a with me and who over and headphones. because this after school is also a part costs that we hope everybody will listen into casserly about what the

difference is and the similarities. but let me start with nina. you were just at the s p d a policy conference which turns into something of a coordination of the current concept of sorts here in germany. and i just want to start off with the sound, but where he explains what these elections are all about for him, the guns not mine, lloyd to the guns. no mine liked the guns. no mine going to often work their guns. no mind, lloyd to the guns. no mine like to the guns. no mine. lot to the no mine going to be guns. no mine by people. i am the guns. no mind what. now what's the mind know it to yeah, that is the one expression in devon, the people and will hopefully have a land coming february the 20 said in the eyes of the social democrats that the guns no mile and lloyd to all the ordinary people and all of the shows that it

sounds like candidates and of course current chancellor as well made it very clear that he's not talking about the simple people the i'm talking about the he's talking about normal people who get up in the mornings go to what do the jobs on that children in a good school system, they perhaps have somebody at home who they needs a cub fall. so some parents or grandparents. so they want to have a system in place where they don't need to worry too much about politics and a very concerned with getting stuff done every day. and that was the message from the social democrats from the policy convention. they said we're doing politics for the millions a lot for the 1000000 as. and of course, that is a very subtle hints of that. we should also talk about the differences between the social democrats and the main rival that they receive the place magnets from the conservatives, because that is also a message coming out from the s b. the a privilege. meds is

a 1000000 that who goes around flying and his helicopter and has no idea of what the normal people internally actually want and use that phrase actually. 17 times the no mind lloyd to issue austin. i'm out of the ordinary demons. uh, they just in the latest poll gave us the top of what the key issues are that they are concerned about. migration was in top spot often that it was in the economy. and that's why i want to jump it to you much. you were at the a if the, the alternative for germany policy convince in the fall of rights costs here in germany, which has no tons of guessing is the government because nobody else wants to work with them. at the same time, they've really been driving this migration agenda. let's just take a listen to the side of the pots. you need to cancel social benefits for those who are not authorized to stay. i'm sorry, i read hot creations on a grand scale and i have to tell you quite honestly,

it's called the migration. then it's called the migration. make sure. so re migration the bus was a no go what as it has been labels here and um the, its, she was deliberately breaking a taboo. that wasn't see, that's right. so to give us some context, this was a word that is very popular in the noise. that's the scene of this is the far right mix stream. a see here in europe, the identity and the eagle. it'll be people who know the name martin's, and that's why that he uses for his am cries but his circle of people. and for that seemed, it means the, the key partition, the return of people from europe, who have migration backwards. that includes people with citizenship and highly controversial weren't aware of the issue is very toxic in many places. so to put that in your speech, your pot tie tag at your posse conference is a, is a, is a significant luggage to the right. i would say it's also not in their program.

they said that they're going to have a re migration catalog. and that essentially means things like we just had making it harder for people to, to access the asylum here in germany, and causing benefits for people with asylum. making sure that people who have had their, their asylum applications revolt basically getting nothing but bred bed and salt. and where necessary when people who have been given asylum and the need for the asylum is over hence, but definitely the warden, syria is one that they talk about that they would see that the opportunity for re migration when you ask them, does this involve, does this include people with german citizenship, they say no. the people with german citizenship a fine. however, there are people for whom it does include people. there are people that are listening to that and hear a different message. and there are people within this party figure a different method. and that's a really interesting point because the conservative cdc su,

led by freespace math too. and i was seeing at the posse gathering his policy hutton humbug. they are somewhat similar in some of the rhetoric, the cause of the cdc's, who has been accused of actually taking some of the messages from the a. if the for instance, it is now demanding that it migrants be rejected at the boulder. and they're also putting, bringing into play that there would be a potential to strip people of german citizenship if they also have another citizenship and prove to be criminals. and this was in the optim, off of that, the tackle, the christmas markets here in germany, where fleet police matches the con, front runner in the polls, and actually has the highest chance of becoming the next on the fly. was quoted and sent that clear message that to me needs to be a lot more restrictive on overall migration. and i just want to contrast this with

what he said when it comes to the nitty gritty when it comes to migraines, the gemini needs it. let's just take a listen to what sleeveless math while saying he wants to turn away migrants at the puerto says about migration overall via but also women's people who once of work in germany and can, and getting those people faster access into germany is just as important in the task as turning away those who coming numbers that are way too large, the to is come down side on few tours. it sounds like it's, there's a democrat that sounds like it's a democrat the but i'd like to bring you into yeah. how some of that does he sound to the greens? yeah, we can see that a lot of talking points from the cd. you from the conservatives, but sometimes also from the if the if kind of seats into the discourse of the green party. we also read in their program, which is for now, so a draft is so has to be approved by the party congress next weekend. but we can

read there that there's some, some terms creeping in that they wouldn't necessarily have addressed in their past programs. for example, repatriation, they say that they are necessary when people don't have the right to stay in germany. they say that and in particular the repatriation of criminals has to be given priority. and they also mentioned, for example, that they see the, the, the, the setting up of control centers outside of europe to check their whether people can come to germany in europe in the 1st place they are against. that's. but even the fact that they're mentioning this policy that we've seen, for example, applied from a right wing governments in europe like in italy, they've tried to do that without dania. we've seen that trying to happen in the u. k. also by a right wing government. the greens, just mentioning and acknowledging this plan means that this, this messaging, these topics that are being raised by the conservatives, and in part also by the sd,

are actually having an impact on the greens policy on migration to when they have been the one party that has been more open, more supportive of rights of asylum and migration and integration. and i think sorry, but the greens project program, i think in particular is the one way you can see the current chrisy these and how policies having to adopt the most clearly. i mean, if we will look back to 2021, this was an election when top topics was essentially addressing the climate crisis . right. and the 2nd one was the cobit restrictions. so now we're talking about completely different topics so much has happened between 2021 the last federal election and this time. but one differentiation of course, is in view of syria that both of the social democrats and the greens and they want to allow for the syrians to go back, visit the country without losing the status of a signed in here in germany. but overall, i really think it's an interesting point, and it explains the relevance of the alternative photometry because we spent

a lot of time talking about them. but they have been very successful in driving the political agenda about this issue. the germans community care about a lot here in dunwoody, i want to come to number 2 in the tots of what people are concerned about. and of course it is the economy. we just have the latest figures out from the sliding further into recession. the in the 2nd successive year of negative growth of, as it's cold. so basically it is a recession here in germany. and i'm nina, this, this many is something that's what i felt needs to be concerned about in particular, because he wants to get re elected despite the fact that he is performing so poorly in the polls. how does he and how do the social democrats want to turn that one around? but they still are convinced that they are on the right path. so anything you fucking so never was a problem with them ever. a problem also, bad polling isn't ever a penalty for them. they always do it in 2021. he came out of nowhere and no

political debate about our shoulders. could he be the next them tell us that the time that the others make mistakes, but it's something that you can never rule out, right. so that can still happen. but other than that, he's also very happy with the how he has and drafted plans for all the flow of this country and blames that essentially on those non functioning coalition government that he was the head off. he still believes that he has the right ideas and that is why they call it the government program, the party program. i think that is very telling. and you also have to keep in mind that of course, it was by no means given the will of choice, was going to become the cds. tell us the candidate, right, just a couple of weeks ago. yeah. the options, they did have options, but then the, the much more popular defense minister, who in some polls was the most popular politician in germany, you know, across pati everybody's headquarters disorders is doing

a good job. and but he then said no, no, no, i really don't want to challenge or left. so it's so it will, i'm sure it's feels very safe. that's moment things that you go to the plan, but you try and find out details from, you know, the economy and what he wants to change. and it's very much he wants to perfect some of the measures that the sd of already tried to implement. why they were in the governing coalition with the greens and the ftp. some of the things that were blocked by the, of the, especially the ftp and, but they also have some good ideas in the, like they want to implement a gemini fund where they say we need extra money. we need to create some sort of a fund that we can build those bridges. we need a 100000000 euros now and need to invest in our infrastructure because that is no terrible state. and anybody coming to germany notices that for years, a decades, nothing of money was spent on that. so it will have. so i'd say we needs,

we need extra debts. and they've also got this idea of implementing a m made in germany bonus, where they say, okay, and the company bit like, i think they looked over the problems that are and so, okay, we need to implement and tools for companies and give them as incentives to invest in a country and give them tax breaks, although there's a huge difference of course and who was in with the facial reduction act, which is creating dynamics by giving kind of i was just talking about american interests in general and interest. and i've got one question about the sd program, so i read parts of it and i thought it was interesting that the re introduction of a wealth taxes in there. but he doesn't talk a lot, but really have it as well. oh yeah. grants have tax. the rich in their program, which i found quite strong, coming from them. but it's a when you see, it's actually huge that is quite popular among the general public, a reintroduction of the wealth tax. because we think that things got balance 10

years ago, thomas pick it to you know, a whole pick about it. the world, the west of what it was, talking about this and the quality. he's got a re introduction of the wealth tax and there, but doesn't spend a lot of time finding that issue on the complaint. have they? that's the feeling i have because he's worried about something or what, why is that? no, from you. so i think they're trying to hold that fine line between making it clear to the vote to base that yes, we will tax the rates the greens say it out loud, but the s p d also have voters in the base that run companies right. that do where they said we con, threatened them too much or else they might leave the country as well. but they are very clear and saying we need to make life easier and of the tech system. best of the 95 percent of people. and we need to make sure that all of plans and tools i will also read and refinanced, essentially by the rich just one percent of the society that they have to contribute more. so let's talk about ukraine because this is

a point of friction within that. still existing policies that are actually in government, there is an around that is being denied by, well, i've sold that, he allegedly is not supportive enough of funding that's supposed to head to what's ukraine, the concept of cd. you might potentially even say bolt on that. let's just take a listen on what who but havoc has to say about what he feels to be done for you quite a bad havoc from the greens to the end of the inquiry. and we see that ukraine is defending its right to free the self determination and its right to exist. and we have promised as a whole year. and we know that the piece, the keeping of things is you're just gonna leave it and it's printing just nothing much from this conflict. stronger, tumble victorious because back as terrible as that. he advice, nobody finds it easy to talk about it. to me. mumford disliked these are certainly the most difficult because i'm morally difficult decisions. we have to make

multiple effingham, so if anything and the greens are now backing aid for ukraine in this, on that final stretch a lot more. here's what we'll have sold and saying about it for life to this deal. you have it, i should have ended the correlation earlier, but i did in the end because they was disagreement about how we were going to find the money to support some credit. and for example, we like precisely what we have now. we have locked for you, creating the draft budget 12 and a half 1000000000 euros. if we want to do more, we need even more 15 and a half 1000000000 for example. and then the question is, who will pay for it? my suggestion, extra funding partners, not at the expense of pensions or municipalities or whatever. i'm going to the minute of us places he keeps doing that doesn't a, he keeps that thing. ukraine aid against actual um, social, the social support network here in germany and investment he's, communication is very interesting because of course, he blames all his critics and he accuses them of doing exactly that of pitching.

you aid for ukraine against the normal, the, you know, ordinary people hearing gemini, and then he uses in to be so like that way he says, a repeat sign. okay. we have to choose between 8 for ukraine, all the money for normal people in germany. if you don't tell me how you want to finance it. and of course when he was in that big round with the greens on, via ftp at the time, as it didn't looked like a big problem to take out extra money. apart from the ftp blocking that proposals at the time for the search and democrats, it didn't seem like a big deal. and in the end, the coalition government collapse because of that very question. can we find those 3000000000 euro? someone click the from the if the pizza said no, i'm not going to take an extra debt and that's where the whole debate then started . you know, where do we get the money from?

now is interesting that it's the s p d that are saying ok, i'm not so sure anymore and we do need to find some extra funds them or else we'll have to take it from the ordinary people. so not very consistent messaging on the part of all f shows, i do believe and that he is convinced that germany is family by ukraine site. and that's how he has shown that over the use of germany, you know, behind the us different. so to sticks out there, of course. but they are in europe, ukraine's most important supposed to. and that he has driven that support for ukraine here in germany. but also in, in europe, at the same time, he has to woke that line again because he doesn't want to, to annoy people within his own policy. and in the vote to base a very reluctant in addressing this topic even

further in sending more money to ukraine. and essentially contributing more in military terms. he wants to have this image as the tons of piece as well. so very, very fine line tend to walk. yeah. so you just the whole box to where you just told us about the arguments also between the co listen, they got us to this point is really behind that label of the town. so that's the piece, the piece, chancellor. and that is the one issue interesting. the way he managed to school in his otherwise completely, historically disastrous pulling absolutely german support that they don't want an escalation of the war. and he is hammering home. this message, i'm going to prevent an escalation. i'm not going to provoke letting me put in to the point that he might consider talking gemini, and behind it is almost, it's become symbolic because it isn't necessarily seen is so relevant on,

on the ground anymore, which is the, the tower system of these cruise missiles which state of the art they seem to be even better than the ones that actually now being have been used by the ukraine from the united states, britain and france. and because of the seed you potty represented by freely st. matt. who is the front runner in the pulse, has ensured that it would deliver those weapons. but the question now is whether it will even be necessary because as we talk here, we're waiting. the old grayson of donald trump for his 2nd term. and this is where i want to bring the whole question of the us because the buffalo somewhat changed and now you know, will the europeans actually even sit at the table when the future of ukraine is discussed? i got the opportunity to ask freely smith as a posse event on what his methods to donald trump would be. let's take a listen to that. it's not much. i mean i got to look for talking about the u. s. and the screws not before we started sending messages to the us,

we should coordinate more closely at the european level. and that will really suggested months ago, we should have our own, your team contact group on your train for me to go through kind of, i will pay for contact corporate, trusting. so clearly his messages and that germany's task is europe, europe, and once again, europe to be stronger. i want to bring in you match because a lot of headlines were made by at least 5 of the tests to kind of the a, if the doing a twitter space, an ex space with 8 on mosque, who is an advise of donald trump, one of his bros actually one of his key buddies in the selection campaign and, and it made everybody feel like okay, these interest of very muscle lines are very close to each other. the if the is close to the trunk come up. but this is what a least vital had to say about the relationship to the us address, actually a judge and not to leave us with george. not only will this could lead to the

alternative for germany on our beloved piracy, towards our beloved project for germany. hi, it is the only policy that has all communication channels open in the east and in the west in this well, let's look through the, you know, the, we've got the new policy b, s w way. you also did an episode and waste um, but what we did here at berlin briefing the new as of out in connection and lions. and we just had that interest as a very happy that you know, the, when, when they look at the party manifesto as they clearly have to find a if the under b s. w, as the most promising policies here in 70. wow. and the americans have defined the, if the also has the most promising policy figure that explain that to us now. i mean, i wouldn't, i wouldn't have the americans because it is just allow me to start as african is kind of mixing up spots in a way she's, she's got a point because b s b is not on keeping some kind of titles on the, sorry, these are a lot,

in fact the line says no pro american and the way that she was fighting was trying to kind of portray herself there. she said, you know, there's been a lot of excitement recently about this party talking about the long mosque attention that they've had the endorsement. and i think it was important for her in that moment on the line to the party is not becoming a kind of singularly pool american party because there are people, lots of voters in the east of germany and in the west germany, but predominantly the east for him that is not okay till the winter of republican think tank and spoke of demons as being and then the slave nation and how they would stand up against us interests as well. yeah, so she's, she's been doing a lot of media um the is trying to kind of at least tell the story of the f e to an, an anglo or american accent. american audience. right. but what was interesting about that is that, you know, she's, she's saying, or we're keeping that kind of open to east and west, and that's on like any other party and what their program,

what their program for government says is that we want to rebuild not stream side law stream, the, the gas pipeline between the flow and i'm sure how many that was blowing up there is opposed by the us essentially a significantly domestically debt. yeah. but what's the by all the countries uh, between here and dresser, right? because it bypasses ukraine completely. is yeah, so it's highly controversial in to say that we are keeping communication channels open with the us at the same time saying we need to drop sanctions on russia. and we want to start with the importing rush and gas is it is a kind of contradiction, then a lot people don't see how that makes sense. but that's their message right now. yeah, but that's not what i can basically have good relations with everyone. and you know, i talk to people there and they say like we don't have friends, countries don't have friends, the quote that the country to have friends have interest and, and we will have to set our interest and we will, we will push through and she said that i was final said that in the to that to the

same type of you mentioned mikaela. she said that she would be prepared to make that call with us that were gonna start re importing russian gas, which obviously controversial because of the moment. jeremy imports last l n g from the us. and so i think that donald trump appears that they're no longer going to be by my gosh, he might be upset about that. that was your binding briefing. you can see is so you can watch this on youtube. you can listen to us everywhere you get your podcasts from. and of course, do forget the weekly newsletter belen briefing, what you get instant analysis on what's happening in this election campaign and the full context of that. we look forward to talking to you to hearing from you until next week by the

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