tv Berlin Briefing Deutsche Welle January 17, 2025 7:30pm-8:01pm CET
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juliana, see the on the board is what makes things the way the way all the solutions mapped out, navigating a changing world. now on youtube, it's spelling briefing time just as a 5 weeks before demons go to the polls and those snap elections. so high time to talk about those election programs of the various parties. and that's why i have the full quote of political correspondence with me here in the studio to talk about those election programs, which i read by very few voters and very few politicians in the end actually stick to them. that's why we'll talk about the dynamics in this election campaign. and i want to just introduce julia is so deli who's here with me, matthew mole. i have and nina has a with me, and we're all wearing headphones because this, after all, is also
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a part costs that we hope everybody will listen into casserly about what the differences and the similarities. but let me start with nina. you were just at the s b, d, a policy conference which turns into something give a coordination of the current concept laptops here in germany. and i just want to start off with the sound but where he explains what these elections are all about for him. the guns no mine, lloyd to the guns. no mine, like the guns. no mine going to often work their guns. no mind lloyd, to the guns. no mine bought to the guns. no mine lot to be no mind loads with the guns. no mind going to i am the guns. no mine was, you know, what's the mind know it to yeah, that is the one expression in german that the people and will hopefully have learned come february the 20 said in the eyes of the social democrats,
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of the guns. no mylan, lloyd to of the ordinary people and all of shows the sounds like candidates and of course, current counselor as well, made it very clear that he's not talking about the simple people, the item that he's talking about. normal people who get up in the mornings go to work, do the jobs one that children in a good school system. they perhaps have somebody at home who they need to kind of fall. so some parents or grandparents. so they want to have a system in place where they don't need to worry too much about politics. and the very concerned with getting stuff done every day. and that was the message from the social democrats from the policy convention. they said we're doing politics for the millions a lot for the 1000000 as of cause that is a very subtle hints of that. we should also talk about the differences between the social democrats and the main rival that they receive replacements from the conservatives. because that is also a message coming out from the s p
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d. the privilege. meds is a 1000000 that who goes around flying and his helicopter and has no idea of what the normal people in germany actually want and use that phrase actually 17 times the no mind lloyd to issue austin amount in order to ordinary diamonds. are they just in the latest poll gave us the top of what the key issues are that they are concerned about. migration was in top spot after that, it was in the economy. and that's why i want to jump to you much. you were at the a if the, the alternative for germany policy convince in the fall, right costs here in germany, which has no tons of guessing. it's a government because nobody else wants to work with them. at the same time, they've really been driving this migration agenda. let's just take a listen to the side of the pass. you need to cancel social benefits for those who were not authorized to state. i'm terry. i read pat creations on a grand steel ones,
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and i have to tell you quite honestly if it's called re migration, then it's called the migration. make sure. so re migration the bus was the no go what as it has been, labels here and done the see was deliberately breaking a taboo. that wasn't see, that's right. so to give us some context, this was a word that is very popular and why are they the scene of this is the far right mix stream, a scene here in europe, the identity or even the eagle, the people who know the name, martin said this is the wise that he uses for his am, cries by a circle of people. and for that scene it means the, the key partition, the return of people from europe, who have migration backwards. that includes people with citizenship and highly controversial word awards. the issue is very toxic in many places. so to put that in your speech, your pop type tag at your policy conference is a, is a, is
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a significant luggage to the right. i would say it's also not in the program. they said that they're gonna have a re migration catalog. and that essentially means things like we just had making it harder for people to, to access the asylum here in germany, and causing benefits for people with asylum. making sure that people who have had their, their asylum applications revolt basically get nothing but bred bed and salt. and when necessary, when people who have been given asylum and the need for the asylum is over. hence the death for the warden, syria is one that they talk about that they would see that the opportunity for re migration when you ask them, does this involve, does this include people with german citizenship? they say no. the people with german citizenship a fine. however, there are people for whom it does include people, there are people that are listening to that and hear a different message and the people within the party you a different message. yeah,
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and that's a really interesting point because the conservative cdc su, led by free police maps, who am i, was seeing at the posse gathering his policy had been humbug. they are somewhat similar in some of the rhetoric. the cause of the cdc is who has been accused of actually taking some of the messages from the a. if the for instance, it is now demanding that it migrants be rejected at the boulder. and they're also putting, bringing into play that there would be a potential to strip people of german citizenship if they also have another citizenship and proved to be criminals. and this was in the optim, off of that, the tackle, the christmas markets here in w, a. fleet police matches the confront runner in the poles and actually has the highest tons of becoming the next on slide. was quoted and sent that clear message
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that to me needs to be a lot more restrictive on overall migration. and i just want to contrast this with what he said when it comes to the nitty gritty when it comes to migraines, that germany needs it. let's just take a listen to what sleeveless math while saying he wants to turn away migrants at the puerto says about migration overall, but also women's people who wants to work in germany and can and getting those people faster access into germany is just as important task as turning away those who coming numbers that are way too large, the tools come inside on for future. it sounds like it's there's a democrat that sounds like it's a democrat, but i'd like to bring you into. yeah. how similar does he sound to the greens? yeah, we can see that a lot of talking points from the cd. you from the conservatives, but sometimes also from the if the as kind of slipped into the discourse of the green party. we also read in their program which is for now. so a draft,
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it still has to be approved by the party congress a next weekend, but we can read there that there's some, some terms creeping in that they wouldn't necessarily have addressed in their past programs. for example, repatriation. they say that they are necessary when people don't have the right to stay in germany. they say that and in particular, the repatriation of criminals has to be a given priority. and they also mentioned, for example, that they see the, the, the, the setting up of control centers outside of europe to check their whether people can come to germany in europe in the 1st place. they are against that. but even the fact that they're mentioning this policy that we've seen, for example, applied from the right wing governments in europe like in italy, they've tried to do that without dania. we've seen that trying to happen in the u. k. also by a right wing government. the greens, just mentioning in the, acknowledging this plan means that this, this messaging,
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these topics that are being raised by the conservatives, and in part also by the sd, are actually having an, an impact on the greens policy on migration to when they have been the one party that has been more open, more supportive of rights of asylum and migration and integration. and i think sorry, but it's a greens project program, i think in particular is the one way you can see the car in chrisy these and how party having to adopt the most clearly. i mean, if we will look back to 2021, this was an election where top topics was essentially addressing the climate crisis . right. and the 2nd one was the cobit restrictions. so now we're talking about completely different topics so much has happened between 2021 the last february election and this time. but one differentiation of course, is in view of syria that both of the social democrats and the greens and they want to allow for the syrians to go back, visit the country without losing the status of asylum here in germany. but overall,
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i really think it's an interesting point, and it explains the relevance of the alternative photometry because we spent a lot of time talking about them. but they have been very successful in driving the political agenda about this issue. the dumbest, really care about a lot here in germany. i want to come to number 2 in the tots of what people are concerned about. and of course it is the economy. we just have the latest figures out from the sliding further into recession. the in the 2nd successive year of negative growth of, as it's cold. so basically it is a recession here in germany. and i'm nina, this, this committee is something that's what i felt needs to be concerned about in particular, because he wants to get re elected despite the fact that he is performing so poorly in the polls. how does he and how do the social democrats want to turn that one around while they still uh, convinced that they are on the right path. but so anything you fucking, so never was a problem with them. never a problem also, bad polling isn't ever
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a penalty for them. they always, they still think that a miracle can happen. i mean, the current, me and in the polls that behind the conservatives, that'd be a hind, the, a of the, and in some polls that even behind the green. so they're on full and electronics is still convinced that he can do it. and he did do it in 2021. he came out of nowhere and no political debate about what i saw as could you be the next them tell us that the time that the others make mistakes. but it's something that you can never rule out, right? so that can still happen. but other than that, he's also very happy with the how he has and drafted plans for the, for this country and blames that essentially on this non functioning coalition government that he was the head off. he still believes that he has the right ideas and that is why they call it the government program, the party program. i think that is very telling. and you also have to keep in mind that of course it was by no means given. the love choice was going to become the
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cds. talk to the candidate, right? just a couple of weeks ago. yeah. the options, they did have options, but then the, the much more popular defense minister, who in some polls was the most popular politician in germany, you know, across pati, everybody said borders disorders is doing a good job. and, but he then said no, no, no, i really don't want to challenge or left. so it's so it will, i'm sure it's feels very safe. that's moment things that you go to the plan, but you try and find out details from you know, the economy and what he wants to change. and it's very much he wants to perfect some of the mazes that the sd of already tried to implement. why they were in the governing coalition with the greens and the ftp. some of the things that were blocked by the, of the, especially the ftp and, but they also have some good ideas in the, like they want to implement a gemini fund where they say we need extra money. we need to create some sort of
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a fund that we can build those bridges. we need to 100000000 euros now and need to invest in our infrastructure because that is no terrible state. and anybody coming to germany notices that for years a decades, nothing of money was spent on that. so it will have. so i'd say we needs, we need extra debts and they've also, well, this idea of implementing a m made in germany bonus, where they say, okay, and the company bit like, i think they looked over the products letter and a sort, okay, we need to implement the tools for companies and give them as incentives to invest in our country and give them tax breaks. although there's a huge difference of course and who was in with the inpatient reduction act, which is creating dynamics by giving kind of i was just talking about american interests in german interest. and i've got one question about the sd program. so i read parts of it and i thought it was interesting that the re introduction of
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a wealth taxes in there, but he doesn't talk a lot, but we have it as well. oh yeah. grants have tax. the rich in their program, which i found quite strong, coming from them. but it's a when you see, it's actually huge that is quite popular among the general public, a reintroduction of the wealth tax. because we think that things got balance 10 years ago, thomas pick it to, you know, a whole book about it. the world, the west of what it was, talking about this an equality. he's got a re introduction of the wealth types in there, but doesn't spend a lot of time finding the issue on the complaint. have they? that's the feeling i have because he's worried about something or what, why is that not from you. so i think they're trying to move that fine line between making it clear to the vote to base that yes, we will tax the rates, the greens say it out loud. but the espy the also have voters in the base that run companies right. that do where they say we con, threatened them too much, or else they might leave the country as well. but they all very clear and saying we need to make life easier and of the tech system best for the 95 percent of people.
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and we need to make sure that all of plans and tools, i will also read in refinanced, essentially by the rich just one percent of the society that they have to contribute more. so let's talk about ukraine because this is a point to friction within that still exist thing. policies that are actually in government, there is an around that is being denied by it will have sold that he allegedly is not supposed to have enough funding. that's supposed to head to what's ukraine, the conservative cd you might potentially even say bolt on that. let's just take a listen on what, what havoc has to say about and what he feels to be done for you. quite a bad havoc from the greens, the xen dusty inquiry, and we see that ukraine is defending its right to free the self determination and its right to exist. and we have promised as a whole. yeah, and we know that piece,
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the keeping of things in europe can only retire and they've proved to him, does nothing much from this conflict. strong, tumble, victorious stack as terrible as that. he advise nobody finds it easy to talk about it. to me. mumford disliked these are certainly the most difficult people say morally difficult decisions. we have to make them up to, to go from home. so if anything and the greens are now backing aid for ukraine in this, on that final stretch a lot more. here's what i've sold, so the thing about it, as for like to tell you what happened, i should've ended the coordination earlier, but i did in the end because they was disagreement about how we were going to find the money to support some credit. and for example, we like precisely what we have now we a month before you creating the draft budget, 12 and a half 1000000000 euros. if we want to do more, we need even more 15 and a half 1000000000 for example. and then the question is, who will pay for it? my suggestion, extra funding? not at the expense of pensions or municipalities,
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or whatever. i'm going to hold on the mind of us places he keeps doing that doesn't a he keeps testing ukraine a against. ok. so, um, so, so the social support network here in germany and investment he's, communication is very interesting because of course, he blames all his critics and he accuses them of doing exactly that of pitching. you aid for ukraine against the normal, the, you know, ordinary people hearing germany. and then he uses intervenes like that way. he says a repeat sign. ok. we have to choose between 8 for ukraine. all the money for normal people in germany. if you don't tell me how you want to finance it . and of course when he was in that big growl with the greens on, via ftp at the time as it didn't looked like a big problem to take out extra money. apart from the ftp blocking proposals at the
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time for the session democrats, it didn't seem like a big deal in india and the coalition government collapse because of that very question. can we find those $3000000000.00 euro somewhere? click the for me, if the pete just said no, i'm not going to take an extra debt and that's where the whole debate then started . you know, where do we get the money from? now is interesting that it's the s p d that are saying ok, i'm not so sure anymore and we do need to find some extra funds. and or else we'll have to take it from the ordinary people. so not very inconsistent messaging on the part of all f shows, i do believe and that he is convinced that germany is family by ukraine's side. and that's how he has shown that over the use of germany, you know, behind the us differences to sticks out there, of course. but they are in europe, ukraine's most important supposed to. and that he has driven that support for
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ukraine here in germany. but also in, in europe, at the same time, he has to woke that line again because he doesn't want to annoy people within his own policy. and in the vote to base a very reluctant in addressing this topic even further in sending more money to ukraine. and essentially contributing more in military terms. he wants to have this image as the tons of piece as well. so very, very fine line tend to walk. yeah. so you just the whole box where you just told us about the arguments also between the co listen, they got us to this point is really behind that label of the town. so that's the piece, the piece, chancellor. and that is the one issue interesting. the way he managed to school in his otherwise completely, historically disastrous pulling absolutely demons support. but they don't want an
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escalation of the war and he is hammering home. this message, i'm going to prevent an escalation. i'm not going to provoke letting me put in to the point that he might consider talking germany. and behind it is almost, it's become symbolic because it isn't necessarily seen is so relevant on, on the ground anymore, which is the, the tower system of these cruise missiles. which state of the art they seem to be even better than the ones that are actually now being have been used by ukraine. from the united states, britain and france, and the consumptive seaview party, represented by fleece. and matt, who is the front runner in the polls, has ensured that it would deliver those weapons. but the question now is whether it will even be necessary because as we talk here, we're waiting. the old grayson of donald trump for his 2nd term. and this is where i want to bring the whole question of the us because the buffalo somewhat changed
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and now you know, will the europeans actually even sit at the table when the future of ukraine is discussed? i got the opportunity to ask freely smith as a posse event, or what his message to donald trump would be. let's take a listen to that. it's not much. i mean it cuts it looks like it's talking about. do you estimates crews not before we start sending messages to the us, we should coordinate more closely at the european level. and that will rate just suggested months ago, we should have our own, your team contact group on your train for me to go through, kind of an overpay, should contact the corporate structure. so clearly his messages and that germany's task is europe, europe, and once again, europe to be stronger. i want to bring in you match because a lot of headlines were made by at least 5 all the tests to kind of the, the doing a twitter space, an ex space with 8 on mosque who is an advise of donald trump, one of his bros actually one of his key buddies in the selection campaign and,
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and it made everybody feel like, okay, these interests of every muscle lines are very close to each other. the if the is close to the trunk come up. but this is what a least vital had to say. about the relationship to the us address, actually a judge and not to you this with george. not only will this believe the, the alternative for germany on our beloved policy towards our beloved project for germany. hi, it is the only policy that has all communication channels open in the east and in the west in this well, let's look through the, you know, the, we've got the new policy b, s w way. you also did an episode with them. but what we did here at berlin briefing the new as of our and connection lines. and we just had that interest as a very happy that you know, the, when they look at the party manifesto as they clearly have defined day of the under
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b, s. w as the most promising parties here and, and tell me well, and the americans have defined the, if the also is the most promising policy figure that explain that to us and how i mean, i wouldn't, i wouldn't have the americans because it is just the south african and is kind of mixing up, but in a way she's, she's got a point because b s b is not on keeping some kind of titles on the, sorry, these are a lot. in fact, the line says no pro american and the way that she was 5 was trying to kind of portray herself there. she said, you know, there's been a lot of excitement recently about this party talking about the loan mosque attention that they've had the endorsement. and i think it was important for her in that moment on the line to the party is not becoming a kind of singularly pool american party. because there are people, lots of voters in the east of germany and in the west of jeremy. but predominantly the east for him, that is north. okay. till the winter of republican think tack and spoke of demons as being and then slave nation and how they would stand up against us interests as
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well. yeah. so she's, she's been doing a lot of media um that is trying to kind of at least tell the story of the f, e to an, an glo or american accent american audience. right. but what was interesting about that is that, you know, she's, she's saying, or we're keeping that channels open to east to west, and that's on like any other party and what their program, what their program for government says is that we want to rebuild non stream side las between the, the gas pipeline between the flow and i'm sure how many of it was blowing up there is opposed by the us, essentially a, some of the things we did. they took the dead. yeah. but the ones, the by all the countries uh, between here and dresser, right? because it bypasses ukraine completely. is that? yeah, so, so it's, it's highly controversial and to say that we are keeping communication channels open with the us at the same time saying we need to drop sanctions on russia. and we want to start with re importing rush and gas is it is a kind of contradiction, then a lot people don't see how that makes sense. but that's their message right now.
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yeah, but that's not without. it shouldn't basically have good relations with everyone. and you know, i talked to people there and they say like, we don't have friends, countries don't have friends, the quote that the countries will have friends have interests and, and we will have to set our interest and we will, we will push through and she said that i was my will said that in the to that to the same type of you mentioned mikaela. she said that she would be prepared to talk to make that call with us that were gonna start re importing russian gas, which obviously controversial because of the moment germany important law, l n g from the us. and so i think that donald trump appears that they're no longer going to be by my gosh, he might be upset by that. that was your body. and 3 thing you can see is, so you can watch this on youtube. you can listen to us everywhere. you get your podcasts from and of course do forget the weekly newsletter belen briefing, what you get instant analysis on what's happening in this election campaign and the full context of that. we look forward to talking to you to hearing from you until next week by
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