political class and we de code what it means to you from violin to right where you are. it's only known you broadcast fun in briefing on youtube and wherever you get the you as president trump said that he and russian president fujen spoke for more than an hour on the phone this week and agreed that talks to in the board and ukraine should begin immediately ukraine's president was not on that call. in fact, it trump dialed up president zalinski after he had spoken with pro 10 were to add insult to injury. trump had this message for ukraine. joining nato is not going to happen. getting back territory taken by russia is unlikely, and security guarantees will have to come from europe almost 3 years to the day when russia began its invasion, the world is asking, has been united states betrayed its ally ukraine,

hybrid gulf in berlin. this is the day the theatre recall, but we want to ended or that was a disaster pool initial. it's important that everything does not go according to pretends planned any days behind our backs we northward, returning to cranes, pre 2014 borders is an unrealistic objective. the trump, trump administration, has already made public concessions dependents in the phone. it goes to asians of even begun if there is a give by dates, appeasement. it has never worked fully. if he wants to do everything to make his negotiations bilateral, between him and the united states of america, there is no trail there. also coming up in the us and russian negotiate a peace deal for ukraine. what role if any, will there be for your without this it have to table, you know, you can agree on,

on whatever, but it will just simply say, any quick fixes is, it does the data to our viewers watching on cbs, in the united states, into all of you around the world. welcome. we begin today with a phone call that is being called an act of betrayal. when he was president, trump picked up the phone this week and called the russian president vladimir putin ending the war in ukraine was reported to the topic number one. ukraine's role in that process was apparently not trump and boots and agreed to start piece talks immediately. it was only then that the u. s. president, phone, ukrainian, president zelinski, if the landscape felt like an after thought he may have felt totally forgotten. as he heard what trump had to say, namely no native membership for ukraine anytime soon. and reclaiming the territory taken by russia. it's unlikely ukraine was told to plan for

a peace deal that will include no security guarantees from the united states. here's how donald trump described all of them. we had a great call and it lasted for a long time over an hour this morning. they also had with presidential instigating . very good call after that. then i think we're on the way to getting peace. i think president polk wants peace and present, the landscape wants peace and i want peace. i just want to see people stop getting killed or today at nato headquarters in brussels. the new us defense secretary pete hex, a face to the question, is america betraying? it's l y ukraine. here's how we answer. there is no betrayal there. there is a recognition that the whole world in the united states is invested in interested in peace. a negotiated piece as president trump has said stopping the killing.

and so that will require both sides recognizing things they don't want to. that's why the world is fortunate to have president trump only he at this moment could convince the powers that be to bring peace. and that's a welcome sign. while it nato headquarters defense secretary exit provided the most detailed outline of what a piece deal could look like. and here is what we know to 9 exit, wrote out a return to ukraine's pretty in 2014 borders. those borders included crimea and the regions of eastern ukraine currently under russian occupation. he called the notion of reclaiming that territory. illusionary. he also said there would be no nato membership for ukraine. this would not be a realistic outcome. you said a peace keeping force comprising of european and now on european troops. now this would not form part of an official native mission. he said, and there would be absolutely no us boots on the ground,

is you crate. and hex of said, there must be international oversight of the line of contact between ukrainian and russian troops. i want to bring in now tights and barker. he was a us diplomat during the by the administration where he served as deputy special representative for ukraine's economic recovery. ties, it's good to see you again, it's been a long time our viewers will recognize you and, and i have to ask you to start out what was your reaction to president trump's phone call 1st to vladimir putin before he even came. busy ukrainian president as well. it was of course, um, falling into all categories. i would say, i mean if you read the uh, the read out of the phone call, it had a lot of the same tropes, very reminiscent of uh, president trump. this meeting was vitally to me in helsinki, in 2018. it fell into a lot of narratives around the great history of russia about it's sacrifice in the

2nd world war. never mind the fact that you pray and actually lost a lot more troops and civilians in the 2nd world wars and rush, it is part of the soviet union or composite elements of the soviet union. he did not mention of course, and he did not mention either it in the written statement for the more all we know that it was russia that is the dresser. in this case it is violated international law. and then when he made a mention of the team, but he's at some point to leave these negotiations, it's clear that he is very uh, affected right. so we, so by the release of mark fogel, a teacher was imprisoned the, and rushed up for years. who was just released, but he didn't, he failed to mention his lead a special on waiting for you pretty much the negotiations general can well. so again, we're falling into similar patterns, but we saw him 1st from administration only this time the states are much higher.

yeah, you were with the state department, this new state department now under marco rubio. do you see it really playing a role in any of these negotiations, or is this going to be all about, you know, one president to another? and i think it's going to each, you know, we have a lot of computing power centers. again, we have several special on ways we have those. we have a mark over, you know, we have a special representative. we cos who was the one who actually negotiate the re release of portfolio. we have general kellogg. we have the tense headset, but at the end of the day, this is going to rely on come preachers often changing the opinions of the president himself. you know, we are 2 weeks away from the moment when a president trump said that you, russia didn't come to the table and wasn't willing to make concessions, but there was a lot of damage that could happen to the russian economy. it could be very, very great consequence. that is the case,

but use the trumpet. ministration is leaning heavily on the ukrainians without the premiums actually being at the table. and i will say an old model from the previous state department was nothing about you pretty much without ukraine. then i think that we're looking at a peace settlement that won't be legitimate in the eyes of ukrainians or your opinions. what do you think the, the ford service officers are thinking? and i, i think you particularly inside of the state department. the fact that we heard this week, the us defense secretary saying that there will be no return to pre 2014 borders for ukraine. and you know, if, if they're thinking of a need a membership of they can forget it. why in the end they bought a diplomacy. why would you take those options off of the table before you even sit down to negotiate? uh yeah. so this is um, you know, again the, the state parts ohio, this would just be considered a rookie mistake. but we can do that. a secretary headset has wrong back. some of

those statements today saying that it is only in the hands of president trump. uh, to talk about what positions the united states will call on these key strategic issues when negotiations are much more advanced. but frankly, we, we have 2 indications here. one is the negotiations are in fact more advanced with the russians without the ran into europeans at the table, which would be a concerning a state of affairs. and the other is the secondary headset. there's just not familiar with the contracts of negotiation, which is awesome. so what are you hearing from, from your colleagues in your contacts and be, do they feel like what president trump has laid out? has the us now be trade ukraine. and i will say in cheese. uh, there was a good deal with how about the kind of disruptive logic of

trump coming in. i mean, sometimes you think it's outside the box, as he did with a and his team did with the abraham of courts and sometimes that, that is the kind of new thinking that can shape things up and bring a change to the status. well. but right now there is a true sense of betrayal. i mean, this is, you know, a country that has bought value, that was actually basically counted out by the western alliance in the early phases of this war and stood on its own by itself and rally international public opinion to stand with it. yeah. and you know, we owe it to the agreement. it's because these are promises that we made to them. and again, just like everywhere we see in the world, our credibility to united states credibility is taking the hit on this. yeah, i've, i've been hearing and seeing that all over social media today, people saying that in the united states that the united states can no longer be trusted. so what does this mean then for ukraine in these peace negotiations,

what sort of leverage do the ukrainians have? and also at concurrent to all the conversations that are happening between uh president trump and his internal cures. uh, there was a visit by the treasury secretary of bathrooms to keep this week the 1st uh, cabinet level. officials travel there. and there were discussions around what kind of critical mineral concessions to be made in exchange for a kind of lend leased program for the provision of weapons. i think it is clear in washington right now that the united states value at any kind of arrangement will not be in, in deploying troops, that's just not politically palatable for the united states. but the provision of, of us security assistance is one of the kind. and is that we're able to continue on the back of the new deepest economic relationship in critical minerals that can be part of that is one potential area of concession or potential area negotiation. i

think these are very live discussions and we'll do a lot more coming out of the munich security conference. okay. and so i some barker, it's always good to talk with you. we appreciate you sharing your, your valuable insight or knowledge and insights with us tonight. thank you, joyce. thanks what donald trump's a phone call with fulton is sent, shock waves through european capitals who expect to play a central role in any piece of them, but then you create european union. leaders are now telling washington no deal behind our backs. after all, is the security of europe. that's at stake here against why the improvements aggression. germany's defense minister said the us was giving up ground before talks of even begun to the dollars using this is obviously what this regret to bill . it's good. so just that the trump administration has already made to have the concessions to recruiting before negotiations have even begun as an disorders didn't as a get back to 45. in my view, it would have been better to discuss,

explain some possible made to membership because a lot of all the countries possible lots of territories that the negotiating table, something not to take it off the table before hand. this is toya from dish to name corresponding terry shoulds as she was at nato headquarters for today's meeting. and she joins me now from brussels to discuss the fall from what they're calling the heck set bomb periods. get his he was being quite the 24 hours germany's defense minister registered. he did not miss his words when he asked about trumps call was put in the some of the mood here in europe. so, you know, brent surprisingly he may have even led on summing up the sent him is by european defense ministers and that's something we're not necessarily used to seeing germany do on ukraine policy. so there were other ministers who came in today after things soaked in overnight. and then, you know, mildly rebuked what the, what the u. s. has done. um, sort of said, you know,

we're going to stand by ukraine and reminded that it needs to be president zelinski who decides whether to come to the table or not. but i will have to save you minister for the story a so hit his remarks, perked up people's ears precisely because it was germany, not a front line state which we're used to hearing and make a sort of sharper remarks. there was another leader, though, at nato headquarters today, not a defense minister who was equally sharp in her, in her criticism of how the us is handling things. and that is e u foreign policy chief kind of call us also notably a former as don't in prime minister. so these are kind of things you would expect to hear from a prime minister, but she was clearly very insulted. the europe had not been consulted before this phone call with prudent had not been you know, um, it did not been discussed with europe. why what might be offered? what kind of conditions might be acceptable, lets here where she got to say. so you feel like this deal has already been started

to be made behind your back. and what are you going to do personally, to make sure that as ministers are saying your need to see that the table we do service you to the table, but you need to make sure that you actually do have that seat, not just to represent your interest but also ukraine's, which are linked to your own security. how can you make sure of this, as i say, any agreement without the suite phase, because you need your up for a new crane to also implement the agreement. so without this a have to table, you know, you can agree on, on whatever, but it will just simply fade because of the, the implementation is not there. any quick fix is the, is it does it in the. so we have seen before when it comes to minutes, for example, and if one just simply not work, it will not stop the killing. it will not stop the war. yeah, it won't stop the killing won't stop the war. but what will it do? but terry, what me, what, what you read on that?

oh, she was interesting. we using friends own words that he could stop the killing. so i think a high representative call us put some thought into what she was going to say in response to what the us is doing. but you know, she's pointing out that a peg says, said it would be the europeans who would be responsible both financially and sort of logistically for carrying out any eventful ceasefire. but then all of the conditions are being dealt with above the european said sort of is going to be handed down to europe. what kind of implementation is going to be responsible for? and this simply isn't acceptable in the views of, of kind of colors nor many of the ministers who we heard from this morning at nato headquarters. interior colors also told you that europe would continue to back you creed, even if the united states turns its back on. keith. is there support for that for europe to go it alone? to in fact, she said that she expects that you quit written ukraine will resist these

conditions. she said, but ukraine will resist and europe will continue to support ukraine in that. now that's something we did hear from a lot of countries as they came in to nato today. all of the countries who are strong supporters of ukraine, the nordic countries, the baltic states said, you know, they're just going to push on forward with continuing to provide weapons to ukraine . it to the maximum of their capabilities. because the point that europe wants to make, and even pete heck says, said this, is that ukraine should be in a strong position. you know, when it comes to the table and the european se, if it comes to the table. and you can't say that ukraine is in that strong military position right now. so i think the view of the european allies is, you know, we're just going to keep calm and carry on providing weapons to ukraine until president zaleski decides he doesn't need them anymore. exit said that native membership for ukraine would not be a realistic outcome. could ukraine then be given some form of

a native of light protection instead of full membership as well? let me take a part of the question a little bit. uh headsets said yesterday, that nato membership would not be part of this negotiated outcome. now a lot of people took issue with that statement, because nato membership isn't something to be negotiated between trump and putting or putting in zalinski or trump zalinski. that's something that all nato allies will have to agree to at some point, and they've promised to do so when conditions are right. so that statement was a little confusing. and as tyson mentioned earlier, hex as a walk that back today, he was asked specifically, what did you mean by you deciding, you, you, the united states deciding that ukraine can't become a nato member? he said, oh no, that's uh, you know, going to be up to president trump, whether she puts that on the table in negotiations. but when it comes to, whether you creating couldn't be offered some kind of security guarantees through nato without nato membership. that's not gonna fly. it has main bilateral security

agreements with all of the allies in nato, which of course don't add up to article 5, the guarantee. but i think you crane has the extensive security guarantees. it's going to be able to get for the moment bilaterally, with a war raging on its territory. yeah, this is not the place we thought we would be 3 years ago when this war was about to begin, and that's for sure. the dummies. terry schultz in brussels tonight. terry, as always, thank you. well, whether they like it or not, you crating and face a future that will be determined in part by the negotiating strategy of us president donald trump. ukrainian president zalinski also knows who he's dealing with and that goes for trump and for food. and today's the landscape pushed back voicing concern about being sidelined by the 2 leaders, a little initial set. and it's important that everything does not go according to a person's plan. in which he wants to do everything to make his negotiations by last roll reduced between humans and united states of america,

that i'm glad we use the silver and country simply will not be able to accept any agreements without as not going to e mail. and would you keep the moving us to business? all right, our coverage continues. now. we want to go to ukraine's capital or corresponding economy joins me. nick, the united states, even if they're pulling back. so i'm, i mean, they still throwing out this idea of no return to pre 2014 borders for ukraine, no need or membership any time soon for ukraine, even if they are pulling back a little bit on some of these statements. this must be a massive body blow to ukraine. no question, but this was a shock and i think it was more even about the tone, especially if the gushing post we had from donald trump about his goal was pushing that it was about the substance. the sense from that post of who's that this is a man who doesn't see anything particularly bad in taking other people's character . you doesn't feel the need to make clear who is the address and who is the victim

of a seat. we've had trump talk about taking a bit some of the tension and kind of that greenland panama. so that wasn't maybe surprising, but to see it spelled out like that was a shock. if you looked at that 1st come through it. so i suppose it seemed like he was just going to inform zalinski in the end they spoke for about an hour versus 90 minutes with preaching. but still, there is a real worry that this is ministration that wants to come up phase of influence and potentially is willing to let russia have it sooner influence in europe, and then focus on the western hemisphere for instance. and do the same with china. that is a little really far away from where we were a couple months ago with the light and team. but i think i'm at a level it was expected. and now it is obviously the kind of job of, of zalesky to do the best he can with what he's being given and to warn everyone and which he's done today also that russia is not up for peace on any kind of kind of basis that you crank and accept and basically, and we for the rest of officials talk about it, they still want the same, they want it back in 2022. we, we heard presidential lensky saying that he would not accept an agreement,

worked out by a laterally between the united states and russia. i am just wondering, nick, i mean, does he, does he really have a choice? see? well i think for now he's definitely going to keep those differences with the trump team. pine close doors. he's not going to express his emotions too clearly. even though he probably would want to. he is doing his best to play on the right side of the trumpet any because a blame game when those talks, which it's expected here in cuba, will eventually run up against basically portions and transients and pickens on willingness to give any ground to inputs. and basically, still talks about the fact that ukraine is an illegitimate country, that shouldn't exist. that ukraine's all mean should be so small that it basically can never defend itself, that ukraine should be outside nato and potentially even outside the u. s. so that these are all things that you know, from the ukraine perspective, they think that the trump team haven't understood yet. the pictures don't wanna get around. they mean the jump team to see me need to think that trump's personal job,

he's deal making skills, can change that. but there's expectation here that this he's going to run into a brick wall sooner or later. and then that is in the jobs for ukraine to, to trump. it's try and get them on the side to make the people of ukraine. however, they've been reacting to the events of the past 24 hours, a sort of head scratching people, just not understanding what it is that you put in. and trump have agreed if they've agreed anything, a tool. i don't see a fear of being sold down the river. that is obviously, i don't, we have all these use of this will. that is being the main fee of that. at some point, western countries will lose interest. and ukraine side is too difficult to expensive . and give up, we spoke some just ordering people to hit and key of on the streets today. let's have a list to it that say vote for captain. we're sure i think they're pulling the plug on us to realize there's a band and a new train, which is the move. it's as simple as that. you had shipped out to you from what i've read about the potential deal. and there's none of what we need in there

showed up today about the mass of yeah, what was your seed? i'm horrified by it all. the 3, you know, they're selling us out. it's painful. for vegas wireless. it's those. and i feel for all the boys who died for nothing, is that simple with this is along the extra just now i think trump is more on the bulb and bought and was the president on medicare to invite you to help you understand the strategy and, and how to deal with the situation and what the concerns at all when you 1st i'm pleasantly surprised how to shut the supplies here because of a sweet i think you'll be able to end up with all of these very soon to show it and lovely. some trust them so, so is that can just, nick, how could a piece along the lines laid out by us secretary of defense x that looked like in practice? i mean, would it be a real piece, a just piece or just a peaceful war? but i think that's the fair hearing ukraine. this is just going to be a war,

paused at best that trump will move on to deal with gaza or other problems that he's more interested in. more emotionally committed to this country will basically be left almost the same position that it wasn't 2014 just with letting me approaching who is even more committed to eventually destroying this country and taking it apart, bringing it back to the kind of rushing imperial fold there was a real fear that if there is no clear perspective, no clear, yes, security guarantees that lots of ukrainians, even if they're doing okay from their living somewhere, far away from the rest of the board, it will say, why should i stay here? why should i risk another invasion and that they will fully what's the board is rope and follow their wives and kids to europe and leave this country to kind of basically bleed, bleed out and you know, fail. it's amazing that we are here now after almost 3 years of full scale invasion . they connelly mt big as always. thank you. excellent. reporting is always the

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we will not say the way starts february 14th on dw the this is dw news and these are our top stories. a car has plowed into a crowd of people in a suspected attack and the german city of munich. it happened just before 11 am local time injuring at least 28 people. the victims were taking part in a trade union demonstration. police have arrested one suspect, described as a 24 year old asylum seeker from afghanistan. government transfer lock, schultz said the perpetrators should be punished and removed from german. germany's defense minister has criticized the trump administration's plans for ukraine as a native.