was not on that call, in fact, it trump dialed up president zalinski after he had spoken with fulton what to add insult to injury trump had this message for ukraine. joining nato is not going to happen. getting back territory taken by russia is unlikely. and security guarantees will have to come from europe almost 3 years to the day when russia began its invasion, the world is asking, has been united states betrayed its ally ukraine. i bring the golf and berlin. this is the day, the theatre, recall. but we want to end that were, that was a disaster tool. i'm not sure it's important that everything does not go according to prove things planned. any days behind our backs, we not work. returning to ukraine's pre 2014 borders is an unrealistic objective.

the trunk of the trump administration has already made public concessions dependents in the phone. it goes to asians of even begun if there is a good buy, it's a piece and that it has never worked fully. the wants to do everything to make these negotiations by latrell, between humans, the united states thought that there is no betrayal there. also, coming up in the us and russia negotiate a peace deal for ukraine. what role if any, will there be for your without this at half the table, you know, you can agree on, on whatever, but it will just simply face any quick fixes is a jersey data to our viewers watching on cbs in the united states, into all of you around the world, welcome. we begin today with a phone call that is being called an act of betrayal. when us president trump picked up the phone this week and called russian president vladimir putin ending the war and ukraine was reportedly topic number one. ukraine's role in that process

was apparently not trump inputs in degree to start piece talks immediately. it was only then that the us president phoned ukrainian president zelinski if the landscape felt like an after thought he may have felt totally forgotten. as he heard what trump had to say, namely no native membership for ukraine anytime soon. and reclaiming the territory taken by russia. it's unlikely ukraine was told to plan for a peace deal that will include no security guarantees from the united states. here's how donald trump described all of that. we had a great call and it lasted for a long time over an hour this morning. they also had with presidential landscape and very good call after that. then i think we're on the way to getting peace. i think president, one space and president to landscape wants peace and i want peace. i just want to

see people stop getting killed. what today at nato headquarters and brussels? the new us defense secretary pete hex, a face to the question, is america betraying its l y ukraine? here's how are you answer. there is no betrayal there. there is a recognition that the whole world in the united states has invested and interested in peace. a negotiated piece, as president trump has said stopping the killing. and so that will require both sides recognizing things they don't want to. that's why the world is fortunate to have president trump, only he at this moment could convince the powers that be to bring peace, and that's a welcome sign. well, it nato headquarters defense secretary haig says, provided the most detailed outline of what a piece deal could look like. and here is what we know to 9 exit, wrote out a return to ukraine's pre in 2014 borders. those borders included crimea and the

regions of eastern ukraine currently under russian occupation. he called the notion of reclaiming that territory. illusionary. he also said there would be no nato membership for ukraine. this would not be a realistic outcome. he said, a peace keeping force comprising of european and now on europe and troops. now, this would not form part of an official native mission. he said, and there would be absolutely no us boots on the ground is you create the hex of said there must be international oversight of the line of contact between ukrainian and russian troops. i want to bring in now tyson barker. he was a us diplomat during the, by the ministration where he served as deputy special representative for ukraine's economic recovery ties. it's good to see you again. it's been a long time our viewers will recognize you and, and i have to ask you to start out what was your reaction to president trump's

phone call 1st to vladimir putin before he even. busy the ukrainian president as well. it was of course i'm falling into all categories. i would say, i mean, if you read the read out of the phone call, it had a lot of the same tropes, very reminiscent of uh, president trump meeting was by to be to me in helsinki, in 2018 itself into a lot of narratives around the great history or russia about it sacrifice in the 2nd world war. never mind the fact that the brain actually lost a lot more troops and civilians. in the 2nd world wars and rush, it is part of the soviet union or composite elements and the soviet union. he did not mention of course, and he did not mention either it in the written statement for the more we now that it was russia that is the dresser. in this case it is violated international law. and then when he made a mention of the team,

but he's assembling to leave these negotiations, it's clear that he is very effective, right? so we, so by the release of mark for a teacher was imprisoned the and rushed out for years, who was dressed for at least, but he didn't, he failed to mention his lead, a special on wait for you, pretty much the negotiations general can well. so again, we're falling into similar patterns that we saw in the 1st prop administration. only this time the stakes are much higher. yeah, you were with the state department, this new state department now under marco rubio. do you see really playing a role in any of these negotiations or is this going to be all about, you know, one president to another? i think it's going to be, you know, we have a lot of computing power centers. again, we have several special on ways we have those. we have marco rubio, we have a special representative. we cost who is the one who actually negotiate the re release portfolio. we have general catalog, we have the test headset,

but at the end of the day, this is going to rely on the preachers often changing the opinions of the president himself. you know, we are 2 weeks away from the moment. when a president trump said that russia didn't come to the table and wasn't willing to make concessions, but there was a lot of damage that could happen to the russian economy of there could be very, very great consequence. that is the case, but use the trumpet. ministration is leaning heavily on the ukrainians without the premiums actually being at the table. and that will say an old model from the previous state department was nothing about you pretty much without ukraine. then i think that we're looking at a peace settlement that won't be legitimate in the eyes of ukrainians or europe. hughes. what do you think the, the ford service officers are thinking? and i, i think you particularly inside of the state department. the fact that we heard this week, the us defense secretary saying that there will be no return to pre 2014 borders

for ukraine. and you know, if, if they're thinking of a need a membership of they can forget it. why in a, in the diplomacy, why would you take those options off of the table before you even sit down to negotiate? yeah, so this is a, you know, again, if this thing starts ohio, this would just be considered a rookie mistake. but we can be that lab. the secretary headset has run back some of those statements today saying that it is only in the hands of president trump uh to talk about what positions the united states will all of these key strategic issues when negotiations are much more advanced. but frankly, we, we have 2 indications here. one is the negotiations are in fact more advanced with the russians without the ran into europeans at the table, which would be a concerning

a state of affairs. and the other is the secretary had sent this just not familiar with the contracts of negotiation, which is awesome. what are you hearing from from your colleagues in your contacts and be do they feel like what president trump has laid out? has the us now be trade ukraine and i will say in cheese. uh there was a good deal with how about the kind of disruptive logic of trump coming in. i mean, sometimes he thinks outside the box as he did with a and his team did with the abraham accords and sometimes that, that is the kind of new thinking that can shape things up and bring a change to the status. well. but right now there is a true sense of betrayal. i mean, this is, you know, a country that has bought value, that was actually basically counted out by the western alliance in the early phases of this war and stood on its own by itself and rally international public

opinion to stand with it. and you know, we owe it to the readings because these are promises that we made to them. and again, just like everywhere we see in the world, our credibility to united states credibility is taking the hit on this. yeah, i've been hearing and seeing that all over social media today, people saying that in the united states that the united states can no longer be trusted. so what does this mean then for you create in these peace negotiations? what sort of leverage do the ukrainians have? and also at concurrent to all the conversations that are happening between uh president trump and his internal cures. there was a visit by the treasury secretary of bathrooms to keep this week the 1st cabinet level official to travel. there and there were discussions around what kind of critical mentoring sessions to be made in exchange for kind of lend lease program for the provision of weapons. i think it is clear in washington right now that the

united states value at any kind of arrangement will not be in, in deploying troops, that's just not politically palatable for the united states. but the provision of, of us security assistance is one of the kind. and if that were able to continue on the back of the new deep and economic relationship and critical minerals that can be part of that is one potential area of concession or potential area negotiation. i think these are very live discussions and we'll know a lot more coming out of the munich security conference. okay. and so i some barker, it's always good to talk with you. we appreciate you sharing your, your valuable insight or knowledge and insights with us tonight. thank you, joyce. thanks what donald trump's a phone call with fulton is in shock waves through european capitals who expect to play a central role in any piece of them. but in new crate, european union leaders are now telling washington no deal behind our backs. after

all, is the security of europe. that'd stake here against the why the improvements aggression, japanese defense minister said the us was giving a ground before talks of even begun to the dollars using this is obviously what this regret to bill. it's good. so just that the trump administration has already made to have the concessions to recruiting before negotiations have even begun as an disorders didn't as a get back to 45. in my view, it would have been better to discuss 6 range of possible made to membership because a lot of all the countries possible lots of territory. it's a negotiating table, something not to take it off. the table before hand is toya from dish to name. corresponding terry shoulds as she was at nato headquarters for today's meeting, and she joins me now from brussels to discuss the fall out from what they're calling the heck set bomb. terry, it's good to see you. it's been quite the 24 hours of germany's defense minister registered. he did not miss his words when he asked about trumps call was put in

the some of the mood here in europe. you know, brent surprisingly he may have even led on summing up the sent him is by european defense ministers. and that's something we're not necessarily used to seeing germany do on ukraine policy. so there were other ministers who came in today after things soaked in overnight. and then, you know, mildly rebuked what the, what the u. s. has done. um, sort of said, you know, we're going to stand by ukraine and reminded that it needs to be president zelinski who decides whether to come to the table or not. but i will have to say your minister for story a so hit his remarks, perked up people's ears precisely because it was germany, not a front line state which we're used to hearing, make it sort of sharper remarks. there was another leader, though, at nato headquarters today, not a defense minister who was equally sharp in her, in her criticism of how the u. s. is handling things and that is e u foreign policy

chief kind call is also notably a former, as known in prime minister. so these are kind of things you would expect to hear from a prime minister, but she was clearly very insulted. the europe had not been consulted before this phone call with prudent had not been you know, um, it did not been discussed with europe what, what might be offer, what kind of conditions might be acceptable, lets here where she got to say. so you feel like this deal has already been started to be made behind your back. and what are you going to do personally, to make sure that as ministers are saying your need to see that the table we do service you to the table, but you need to make sure that you actually do have that seat, not just to represent your ex interest, but also ukraine's, which are linked to your own security. how can you make sure of this as i say, any agreement without the suite phase because you need to europe and ukraine to also implement the agreement. so without this a have to table, you know, you can agree on, on whatever, but it will just simply say because of the,

the implementation is not there. any quick fix is the, is it does it in the. so we have seen before when it comes to minutes, for example, and even just simply not work, it will not stop the killing. it will not stop the war. yeah, it won't stop the killing won't stop the war. but what really do but, terry, what me, what, what you read on that? oh, she was interesting. we using from own words that he could stop the killing. so i think uh hi, representative call us put some thought into what she was going to say in response to what the us is doing. but you know, she's pointing out that a peg says, said it wouldn't even europeans who would be responsible both financially and sort of logistically for carrying out any eventful ceasefire. but then all of the conditions are being dealt with above the european said sort of is going to be

handed down to europe. what kind of implementation is going to be responsible for? and this simply isn't acceptable in the views of, of kind of colors nor many of the ministers who we heard from this morning at nato headquarters. interior colors also told you that europe would continue to back you creed, even if the united states turns its back on. keith. is there support for that for europe to go it alone? to in fact, she said that she expects that you quit written ukraine, will resist these conditions. she said that ukraine will resist and europe will continue to support ukraine in that. now that's something we did hear from a lot of countries as they came in to nato today. all of the countries who are strong supporters of ukraine, the nordic countries, the baltic states said, you know, they're just going to push on forward with continuing to provide weapons to ukraine in to the maximum of their capabilities. because the point that europe wants to make and even piece heck says, said this, is that ukraine should be in

a strong position. you know, when it comes to the table and the european se, if it comes to the table. and you can't say that ukraine is in that strong military position right now. so i think the view of the european allies is, you know, we're just going to keep calm and carry on providing weapons to ukraine until president zaleski decides he doesn't need them anymore. exit said that native membership for ukraine would not be a realistic outcome. could ukraine then be given some form of a native of light protection instead of the full membership as well? let me take a part of the question a little bit. uh headsets said yesterday, that nato membership would not be part of this negotiated outcome. now a lot of people took issue with that statement, because nato membership isn't something to be negotiated between trump and putting or putting in zalinski or trump zalinski. that's something that all nato allies will have to agree to at some point, and they've promised to do so when conditions are right. so that statement was

a little confusing. and as tyson mentioned earlier, hex as a walks that back today, he was asked specifically, what did you mean by you deciding, you, you, the united states deciding that ukraine can't become a nato member? he said, oh no, that's uh, you know, going to be up to president trump, whether she puts that on the table in negotiations. but when it comes to, whether you creating couldn't be offered some kind of security guarantees through nato without nato membership. that's not gonna fly. it has me bilateral security agreements with all of the allies in nato, which of course don't add up to article 5, the guarantee. but i think you crane has the extensive security guarantees. it's going to be able to get for the moment bilaterally, with a war raging on its territory. yeah, this is not the place we thought we would be 3 years ago when this war was about to begin, and that's for sure. the dummies. terry schultz in brussels tonight. terry is always thank you. well, whether they like it or not, you crating and face a future that will be determined in part by the negotiating strategy of us

president donald trump. ukrainian president zalinski also knows who he's dealing with and that goes for truck and for food. today the landscape pushed back boys and concerned about being sidelined by the 2 leaders, the whole mission set. and it's important that everything does not go according to a person's plan. in which he wants to do everything to make his negotiations and bilateral reduce between humans and united states of america. that i'm glad we use the silver and country simply will not be able to accept any agreements without as not going to e mail. and would you keep the moving us to business? all right, our coverage continues. now. we want to go to ukraine's capital corresponding economy joints, me, nick, the united states, even if they're pulling back so many they've still thrown out this idea of no return to pre 2014 borders for ukraine, no need or membership any time soon for ukraine, even if they are pulling back a little bit on some of these statements. this must be

a massive body blow to ukraine. no question, but this was a shock and i think it was more even about the tone, especially if the gushing post we had from donald trump about his coal was pushing that it was about the substance. the sense from that post of who's that this is a man who doesn't see anything particularly bad in facing other people's tertiary who doesn't feel the need to make clear who is the address and who is the victim of a seat. we've had trump talk about taking a bit some of the touching kind of that greenland panama. so that wasn't maybe surprising, but to see it spelled out like that was a shock. if you looked at that 1st come through it. so i suppose it seemed like he was just going to inform zalinski in the end they spoke for about an hour versus 90 minutes with preaching. but still, there is a real worry that this is ministration that wants to come up stairs of influence. and potentially is willing to let russia habits of infants in europe, and then focus on the western hemisphere for instance, and do the same with china. that is a little really far away from where we were

a couple months ago with the light and team. but i think i'm at a level it was expected. and now it is obviously the kind of job of, of zalesky to do the best he can with what he's been given. the enter one, everyone in which he's done today will so that russia is not up for peace on any kind of kind of basis that you crank and accept. and basically, and we've heard russian officials talked about it, they still want the same, they want it back in 2022. we heard president zalinski saying that he would not accept an agreement worked out by a laterally between the united states and russia. i am just wondering, nick, i mean, does he, does he really have a choice? see? well, i think for now he's definitely going to keep those differences with the trump team behind closed doors. he's not going to express his emotions to clearly, even though he probably would want to. he is doing his best to play on the right side of trump in any place, a blame game when those talks, which it's expected here in cuba,

will eventually run up against basically portions and transients, and pictures and willingness to give any ground to inputs. and basically, still talks about the fact that ukraine is an illegitimate country, that shouldn't exist. that ukraine's all mean should be so small that it basically can never defend itself, that ukraine should be outside nato and potentially even outside the u. s. so that these are all things that you know, from the ukraine perspective, they think that the trump team haven't understood yet that trip pictures don't wanna get around. they mean the jump team, but seemingly tilting fit trumps personal job. he's deal making skills can change that, but there's expectation here that this is going to run into a brick wall sooner or later. and then that is in the jobs for ukraine to jokes the trumpets try and get them on the side, make the people of ukraine. however, they've been reacting to the events of the past 24 hours. a lot of head scratching people just not understanding what it is that you put in. and trump have agreed if they've agreed anything a tool. i don't see a fear of being sold down the river. that is obviously alone. we have all these

years of this will, that is being the main for you that some points western countries will lose interest. and ukraine side is too difficult to expensive and give up. we spoke some just ordering people to hit and key of on the streets today. let's have a list to a website. so for captain, we're sure i think they're pulling the plug on us to realize there's a band and, and you train, which is the moon. it's as simple as that. you had shipped out to you from what i've read about the potential deal, and there's none of what we need in their showed them today about them as of yet. what was your seed? i'm horrified by it all. they're selling us out. it's painful for values wireless it's those and i feel for all the boys who died for nothing, is that simple with this is along the extra just now i think trump is more on the bold and bogged and was the president on medicare to invite you to the understand the strategy, right, and then how to deal with the situation. but what the concerns at all when you 1st

i'm pleasantly surprised how to shut the supplies here because of a sweet i think you'll be able to end up with all of these very soon to show it and lovely some trust them so. so is i can just, nick, how could a piece along the lines laid out by you a secretary of defense x that looked like in practice? i mean, would it be a real piece, a just piece or just a peaceful mover. but i think that's the fear here in ukraine, this is just going to be a will pause at best that trump will move on to deal with gaza or other problems that he's more interested in motion. he committed to this country will basically be left almost the same position that it wasn't 2014, just with as letting me preaching who is even more committed to eventually destroying this country and taking it apart, bringing it back to the kind of russian imperial fold there was a real fear that if there is no clear perspective, no clear, yes, security guarantees that lots of ukrainians,

even if they're doing okay from their living somewhere, far away from the russian border will say, why should i stay here? why should i risk another invasion that they will fully? what's the board is they're open for their wives and kids to europe and leave this country to kind of basically bleed, bleed out. and you know, felt amazing that we are here now after almost 3 years of full scale invasion. they connelly in keith nichols, always thank you. excellent. reporting is always and so they continues online. you'll find us on x, also known as twitter, and on youtube, the w, nearest. you can follow me on social media and bring golf tv and remember whatever happens between now and then tomorrow is another day we'll see you then everybody, the

d. w. 's to chose strong, clear positions, international perspectives, stuff like every week we get to the point on our current topic. but to be just some of your current actually well controversial, committed to the point the next on d w. exciting todd costs. know on tv. my fee is and with i'm going to be a good model always you can defend yourself that you can start off with what's his

life to come out when you're married? how does on mental health impact a lot of life between east to west or the cross? is right in the middle of the world around. it's getting more dangerous. we de code what it means senior in 60 minutes on dw the, the relentless journey. filming 30 years of chaos and the congo documentary about a decades long by neighboring countries. greed for raw materials. the worms,

all too often silence in the face of tragedy. con empire of silence starts february 15th on dw, the even republicans are surprised at how radically us president trump and his trusted advisor mosque of fulfilling their election promises by restructuring the government of the state operations. trumpf seems his compact plans as a service to the american tex pads tended to help reduce what he sees as excessive bureaucracy in washington from claims ease ending the inefficiency and waste of taxpayers money. but critics, since the secret agenda by the administration name that this credit thing and the weakening american.