immediately ukraine's president was not on that call. in fact, it trump dialed up president zelinski after he had spoken with fulton what to add insult to injury trump had this message for ukraine. joining nato is not going to happen. getting back territory taken by russia is unlikely, and security guarantees will have to come from europe almost 3 years to the day when russia began its invasion, the world is asking, has been united states betrayed its ally ukraine. i bring golf and berlin. this is the day the theatre, recall, but we want to ended where that was a disaster pool. i'm not sure it's important that everything does not go according to prove things planned. any d, behind our backs we not were returning to ukraine's pre 2014 borders. is an

unrealistic objective, the trunk of the trump administration has already made public concessions dependents in the fall. and it goes to asians of even begun if there is a good faith to piece and that it has never worked fully. the wants to do everything to make his negotiations bilateral, between him and the united states of america, there is no betrayal there also coming up in the us and russian negotiate a peace deal for ukraine. what role if any, will there be for your without this have the table, you know, you can agree on, on whatever, but it will just simply say, any quick fix is the, is it does the data to our viewers watching on cbs, in the united states, into all of you around the world. welcome. we begin today with a phone call that is being called an act of betrayal. when he was president, trump picked up the phone this week and called the russian president vladimir putin

ending the war in ukraine was reported to the topic number one. ukraine's role in that process was apparently not trumping boots and agreed to start piece talks immediately. it was only then that the u. s. president, phone, ukrainian, president zelinski, if the landscape felt like an after thought he may have felt totally forgotten. as he heard what trump had to say, namely no native membership for ukraine anytime soon, and reclaiming the territory taken by russia. it's unlikely ukraine was told to plan for a peace deal that will include no security guarantees from the united states. here's how donald trump described all of them. we had a great call and it lasted for a long time, over an hour. this morning. they also had with presidential landscape and very good call after that. then i think we're on the way to getting peace. i think president,

one space and president to landscape wants peace and i want peace. i just want to see people stop getting killed. what did they at nato headquarters and brussels, the new us defense secretary, pete hex, a face to the question, is america betraying its l y. ukraine is how are you answer? there is no betrayal. there. there is a recognition that the whole world in the united states is invested and interested in peace. a negotiated piece as president trump has said stopping the killing. and so that will require both sides recognizing things they don't want to. uh, that's why i think the world is fortunate to have president trump, only he at this moment could convene the powers that be to bring peace, and that's a welcome sign. well, it nato headquarters defense secretary haig says, provided the most detailed outline of what a piece deal could look like. and here is what we know to 9 exit, wrote out a return to ukraine's pretty in 2014 borders,

those borders included crimea and the regions of eastern ukraine currently under russian occupation. he called the notion of reclaiming that territory. illusionary . he also said there would be no nato membership for ukraine. this would not be a realistic outcome. you said a peace keeping force comprising of european and now on europe and troops. now, this would not form part of an official native mission. he said, and there would be absolutely no us boots on the ground is you create the hex and said there must be international oversight of the line of contact between ukrainian and russian troops. i want to bring in nails heights and barker. he was a us of diplomat during the, by the administration where he served as deputy special representative for ukraine's economic recovery ties. it's good to see you again. it's been a long time our viewers will recognize you and, and i have to ask you to start out what was your reaction to president trump's

phone call 1st to vladimir putin before he even came. busy ukrainian president as well. it was of course, um, falling into all categories. i would say, i mean if you read the uh, the read out of the phone call, it had a lot of the same tropes, very reminiscent of uh, president trump. this meeting was vitally to me in helsinki, in 2018. it fell into a lot of narratives around the great history of russia about it's sacrifice in the 2nd world war. never mind the fact that you pray and actually lost a lot more troops and civilians in the 2nd world wars and russia, it is part of the soviet union or composite elements of the soviet union. he did not mention of course, and he did not mention either it in the written statement for the more we now, but it was russia that is the dresser. in this case that is violated international law. and then when he made a mention of the team,

but he's at some point to leave these negotiations, it's clear that he is very effective, right? so we, so by the release of mark fogel, a teacher was imprisoned the, and brushed up for years, who was just for at least, but he didn't, he failed to mention his lead, a special on wait for you, pretty much the negotiations general can well. so again, we're falling into similar patterns, but we saw him 1st from administration, only this time the stakes are much higher. yeah, you were with the state department, this new state department now under marco rubio. do you see it really playing a role in any of these negotiations, or is this going to be all about, you know, one president to another or i think it's going to be, you know, we have a lot of computing power centers. again, we have several special on ways we have those. we have a mark over, you know, we have a special representative. we cost who was the one who actually negotiated the re

release of park. so we have general catalog. we have the tense headset, but at the end of the day, this is going to rely on preachers often changing the opinions of the president himself. you know, we are 2 weeks away from the moment when uh, president trump said that, yeah, russia didn't come to the table and wasn't willing to make concessions, but there was a lot of damage that could happen to the russian economy. it could be very, very great consequence. that is the case, but use the trumpet. ministration is leaning heavily on the ukrainians without the premium is actually being at the table. and that will say, an old model from the previous state department was nothing about you pretty much without ukraine. then i think that we're looking at a peace settlement that won't be legitimate in the eyes of ukrainians or your opinions. what do you think the, the ford service officers are thinking it? i think it particularly inside of the state department. the fact that we heard this

week, the us defense secretary saying that there will be no return to pre 2014 borders for ukraine. and you know, if, if they're thinking of a need a membership of they can forget it. why in the bought a diplomacy? why would you take those options off of the table before you even sit down to negotiate? yeah, so this is um, you know, again, if this thing starts ohio, this would just be considered a rookie mistake. but we can do that collab a secretary that stuff has run back. some of those statements today saying that it is only in the hands of president trump uh, to talk about what positions the united states will all of these key strategic issues when negotiations are much more advanced. but frankly, we, we have 2 indications here. one is the negotiations are in fact more advanced with the russians without the brain into your appeals at the table, which would be

a concerning the state of affairs. and the other is the secretary had sent this just not familiar with the contracts of negotiation, which is awesome. what are you hearing from from your colleagues in your contacts and be do they feel like what president trump has laid out? has the us now be trade ukraine and i will say in cheese. uh, there was a good deal with how about the kind of disruptive logic of trump coming in. i mean, sometimes you think it's outside the box as he did with a and his team did with the abraham, of course. and sometimes that, that is the kind of new thinking that can shape things up and bring a change to the status. well. but right now there is a true sense of betrayal. i mean, this is, you know, a country that has cost value that was actually basically counted out by the western alliance in the early stages of this war and stood on its own by

itself and rallied international public opinion to stand with it. yeah. and you know, we owe it to the agreement. it's because these are promises that we made to them. and again, just like everywhere we see in the world, our credibility to united states credibility is taking the hit on this. yeah, i've been hearing and seeing that all over social media today, people saying that in the united states that the united states can no longer be trusted. so what does this mean then for ukraine in these peace negotiations, what sort of leverage do the ukrainians have? and also at concurrent to all the conversations that are happening between uh president trump and his internal cures. uh, there was a visit by the treasury secretary of bathrooms to keep this week the 1st uh, cabinet level officials, gravel there. and there were discussions around what kind of critical mentoring sessions to be made in exchange for kind of lend lease program for the provision of

weapons. i think it is clear in washington right now that the united states value at any kind of arrangement will not be in, you know, deploying troops that's just not politically palatable for the united states. but the provision of, of us security assistance is one of the kind and is that we're able to continue on the back of the new deep and economic relationship and critical minerals that can be part of that is one potential area of concession or potential area negotiation i think these are very live discussions and we'll know a lot more coming out of the munich security conference. okay. and so i some barker, it's always good to talk with you. we appreciate you sharing your, your valuable insight or knowledge and insights with us tonight. thank you, joyce. thanks. what donald trump's phone call with fulton is in shock waves through european capitals who expect to play a central role in any piece of them and in you create european union. leaders are

now telling washington no deal behind our backs. after all, is the security of europe. that'd stake here against why the improvements aggression, japanese defense minister said the us was giving up ground before talks of even begun to the dollars using this is obviously what this regret to bill. good. so is that the trump administration has already made to have the concessions to recruiting before negotiations. haven't even begun as in disorders, didn't as a get back to the 45. in my view, it would have been better to discuss the trains possible made to membership of all the countries possible lots of territories at the negotiating table. something not to take it off the table beforehand before from dish to name a corresponding terry shoulds a. she was at nato headquarters for today's meeting, and she joins me now from brussels to discuss the fallout from what they're calling the heck set bomb. terry skid. as he was being quite the 24 hours of germany's defense minister registered. he did not miss his words when he asked about trump's

call was put in the t sum up the move here in europe to you know, brent surprisingly he may have even led on summing up the sent them is by european defense ministers and that's something we're not necessarily used to seeing germany do on ukraine policy, so there were other ministers who came in today after things soaked in overnight. and then, you know, mildly rebuked what the, what the u. s. has done. um, sort of said, you know, we're going to stand by ukraine and reminded that it needs to be president zelinski who decides whether to come to the table or not. but i will have to save you minister for the story a so hit his remarks, perked up people's ears precisely because it was germany, not a front line state which we're used to hearing and make a sort of sharper remarks. there was another leader, though, at nato headquarters today, not a defense minister who was equally sharp in her, in her criticism of how the u. s. is handling things and that is e u foreign policy

chief kind call is also notably a former as don't in prime minister. so these are kind of things you would expect to hear from a prime minister, but she was clearly very insulted. the europe had not been consulted before this phone call with prudent had not been you know, um, it did not been discussed with europe what, what might be offered, what kind of conditions might be acceptable, lets here where she got the se. so you feel like this deal has already been started to be made behind your backs. and what are you going to do personally, to make sure that as ministers are saying your need to see that the table we do service you to the table, but you need to make sure that you actually do have that seat, not just to represent your interest but also ukraine's, which are linked to your own security. how can you make sure of this, as i say, any agreement without the suite phase, because you need your up for a new crane to also implement the agreement. so without this a have to table,

you know, you can agree on, on whatever, but it will just simply say because of the, the implementation is not there. any quick fix is the, is it does it in the. so we have seen before when it comes to minutes, for example, and even just simply not work, it will not stop the killing. it will not stop the war. yeah, it won't stop the killing won't stop the war. but what really do, but terrible. i mean what, what you read on that or she was interesting we using from own words that he could stop the killing. so i think a high representative call has put some thought into what she was going to say in response to what the us is doing. but you know, she's pointing out that the pegs have said it wouldn't be the europeans who would be responsible both financially and sort of logistically for carrying out any eventful ceasefire. but then all of the conditions are being dealt with above the

european said sort of, it's going to be handed down to europe. what kind of implementation is going to be responsible for? and this simply isn't acceptable in the views of, of kind of colors nor many of the ministers who we heard from this morning at nato headquarters. interior colors also told you that europe would continue to back you crate, even if the united states turns its back on. keep. is there support for that for europe to go it alone? to in fact, she said that she expects that you quit, or ukraine will resist these conditions. she said, but ukraine will resist and europe will continue to support ukraine in that. now that's something we did hear from a lot of countries as they came in to nato today. all of the countries who are strong supporters of ukraine, the nordic countries, the baltic states said, you know, they're just going to push on forward with continuing to provide weapons to ukraine . it to the maximum of their capabilities. because the point that europe wants to

make, and even p, texas said this is that ukraine should be in a strong position. you know, when it comes to the table and the european se, if it comes to the table. and you can't say that ukraine is in that strong military position right now. so i think the view of the european allies is, you know, we're just going to keep calm and carry on providing weapons to ukraine until president zaleski decides he doesn't need them anymore. exit said that native membership for ukraine would not be a realistic outcome. could ukraine then be given some form of a native of light protection instead of full membership as well? let me take a part of the question a little bit. uh headsets said yesterday, that nato membership would not be part of this negotiated outcome. now a lot of people took issue with that statement because natal membership isn't something to be negotiated between trump and putting or putting in zalinski or trump zalinski. that's something that all nato allies will have to agree to at some point,

and they've promised to do so when conditions are right. so that statement was a little confusing. and as tyson mentioned earlier, hex as a walk that back today, he was asked specifically, what did you mean by you deciding you, you, the united states deciding that you can't, can't become a nato member? he said, oh no, that's uh, you know, going to be up to president trump, whether she puts that on the table in negotiations. but when it comes to, whether you're creating couldn't be offered some kind of security guarantees through nato without nato membership. that's not going to fly. it has me bilateral security agreements with all of the allies in nato, which of course don't add up to article 5, the guarantee. but i think you crane has the extent of security guarantees. it's going to be able to get for the moment bilaterally, with a war raging on its territory. yeah, this is not the place we thought we would be 3 years ago when this war was about to begin. that's a sure the w if terry schultz in brussels tonight, terry is always thank you or whether they like it or not, you creating and face

a future that will be determined in part by the negotiating strategy of us president donald trump. ukrainian president zalinski also knows who he's dealing with and that goes for trump and for food. today the landscape pushed back boys in concerned about being sidelined by the 2 leaders, a little initial set and it's important that everything does not go according to parents' plan. in which he wants to do everything to make his negotiations with bilateral reduced between humans and united states of america down letter, we use the solver and countries simply will not be able to accept any agreements without as not going to e mail. and would you keep the moving us to business? all right, our coverage continues. now. we want to go to ukraine's capital or corresponding economy joins me. nick, the united states, even if they're pulling back so many, they still throwing out this idea of no return to pre 2014 borders for ukraine. no need or membership anytime soon for ukraine, even if they are pulling back

a little bit on some of these statements. this must be a massive body blow to ukraine. no question, but this was a shock and i think it was more even about the tone, especially if the gushing post we had from donald trump about his school was pushing that it was about the substance. the sense from that post of who's that this is a man who doesn't see anything particularly bad in taking other people's character . you doesn't feel the need to make clear who is the address and who is the victim . obviously we've heard trump talk about taking a bit some of the tension and kind of that greenland panama. so that wasn't maybe surprising, but to see it spelled out like that was a shock. if you looked at that 1st come through it. so i suppose it seemed like he was just going to inform zalinski in the end they spoke for about an hour versus 90 minutes with preaching. but still, there is a real worry that this is ministration that wants to come up stairs of influence and potentially is willing to let russia habits have influence in europe and then focus on the western hemisphere for instance. and do the same with china. that is

a little really far away from where we were a couple months ago with the light and team. but i think i'm at a level it was expected. and now it is obviously the kind of job of, of zalesky to do the best he can with what he's been given and to warn everyone in which he's done today will so that russia is not up for peace on any kind of kind of basis that you crank and accept and basically, and we for the rest of officials talk about it. they still want the same, they want it back in 2022. we we heard president zalinski saying that he would not accept an agreement worked out by a laterally between the united states and russia. i am just wondering, nick, i mean, does he, does he really have a choice? see? well, i think for now he's definitely going to keep those differences with trump team. pine close doors. he's not going to express his emotions to clearly, even though he probably would want to. he is doing his best to play on the right side of trump in any place, a blame game when those talks,

which it's expected here in cuba, will eventually run up against basically portions and transients and pickens on willingness to give any ground to inputs. and basically, still talks about the fact that ukraine is an illegitimate country, that shouldn't exist. that ukraine's all mean should be so small that it basically can never defend itself, that ukraine should be outside nato and potentially even outside the u. s. so that these are all things that you know, from the ukraine perspective, they think that the trump team haven't understood yet. that pictures don't wanna get around. they mean the jump team to see me need to think that trump's personal tom is deal of making skills can change that. but there's expectation here that this is going to run into a brick wall sooner or later. and then that is in the jobs for ukraine. to talk to trump, it's try and get them on the side to make the people of ukraine. however, they've been reacting to the events of the past 24 hours, a sort of head scratching people, just not understanding what it is that puts in and trump have agreed if they've agreed anything, a tool and obviously

a fear of being sold down the river that is obviously alone. we have all these use of this rule that is being the main figure that some points western countries will lose interest. and ukraine side is too difficult to expensive and give up. we spoke some older people here in cuba on the streets today. let's have, let's do a website though, for captain, we're sure i think they're pulling the plug on us to realize there's a band and a new train, which is more. it's as simple as that. you had shipped out to you from what i've read about the potential deal and there's none of what we need in the showdown today about the month of yeah, what was your see? i'm horrified by it all. they're selling us out. it's painful. for vegas wireless. it's those and i feel for all the boys who died for nothing is that simple with this is of alone was extra just now i think trump is more on the bulbs and bought in was for assistance on medicare to invite you to understand the

strategy and and how to deal with the situation and what the concerns at all when you 1st i'm pleasantly surprised how to shut the supplies here because of a sweet i think you'll be able to end up with all of these very soon. the showed and lovely some trust them so. so was that can just nick, how could a piece along the lines laid out by us secretary of defense exist look like in practice? i mean, would it be a real piece, a just piece or just a peaceful war? but i think that's the fair hearing ukraine, this is just going to be a war, paused at best that trump will move on to deal with gauze or other problems that he's more interested in. more emotionally committed to this country will basically be left almost the same position that it wasn't 2014 just with letting me approaching who is even more committed to eventually destroying this country and taking it apart, bringing it back to the kind of rushing imperial fold there was a real fear that if there is no clear perspective,

no clear security guarantees that lots of ukrainians, even if they're doing okay from their living somewhere far away from the russian border will say, why should i stay here? why should i risk another invasion? and that they will fully what's the board is rope and follow their wives and kids to europe and leave this country to kind of basically bleed, bleed out and you know, fail. it's amazing that we are here now after almost 3 years of full scale invasion . they connelly mt big as always. thank you. excellent. reporting is always so they continues online. you'll find us on x, also known as twitter and on youtube, the w nearest. you can follow me on social media and bring golf tv and remember whatever happens between now and then tomorrow is another day. we'll see you then everybody the

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