between war and peace mikayla, is there any talk at the m s. c, what the security conditions for ukraine could mean? there's a lot of talk, but no clarity on voting me as an excuse himself made very clear that security guarantees that do not include the united states on not valid security guarantees from where he's standing and that he would only agree to a peace deal of with russia, if that is guarantees, but that raises a whole host of other questions. united states has already ruled out that it would be deploying its own troops. but what is still unclear is where the united states within vouch for any kind of international security force on the grounds in ukraine . but 1st of all, to get to that point, the question is, what would be free conditions to at least have a ceasefire?

and that's something the drive ends up pushing. they want to see a ceasefire fast and talks about how to proceed further. but it's also quite clear that the united states on necessarily be listening to the 2nd largest supports of ukraine themselves, of course being the largest supports engine mckayla. don't go anywhere. i'm curious about more takes from you. but 1st i want to talk to hans brought here in the studio. what was most outstanding to you, hon. um as the landscape is trying to propose a structure in which you crane can be guaranteed security. and the question is, is a framework and data, or is it another framework is nato ukraine's nature. membership is a, is on the cards, has, in some sense, been guaranteed by nato, but it is not something that the united states under trump uh, putting into question. so the question is, how will find, will you,

you're trying find security partners in europe if it's off no, to me. so he was saying, well, then that's build another kind of nato within europe. what he's saying is that the european union, or european countries need to cooperate a lot most strongly need to build their own security. that he was talking about a european army in distinction from an army composed of an a to and then the states . so you appear in ami a european come on a european foreign policy and was in this structure within the european union. and within this europe, an army, ukraine would be a member and would be, he said, a decisive member because of it's the size of it's a, i mean, the experience, it hasn't war. and so, so he's trying to, in a sense, um, find security for ukraine within the european structure composed of a european army that doesn't exist at the moment. and so he's trying to push a 0 pin neighbors to skilled an army of the 2 ad you're trying to,

that's to become a member of your current european union and so on. and then we have to say, at the same time on the part of russia, russia is a poor teens. concern of a many, many years has been the approach of, of nato towards the russian border. so the border that he was talking about between your train and well as he was saying, is that border towards russia. is that going to be a border between nato and russia, between the european union and russia, that's or what's on the table, and it's a very, very complex situation. you know, as you speak, it makes me realize we do have something from zalinski on nato. let's pause and listen to what he had to say just moments ago or. but our army alone is not enough to and we need what you can provide weapons, training sanctions, financing, political pressure,

and unity team. 3 years or full scale war have proven that we already have the foundation for a united european military force. and now, as we fight this war and lay the ground water for peace and security, we must build the forces of your so that your future depends only on your opinions and decisions about your are made in your of course it's only theory, but something like this may very well be necessary in pressing when you are the leader of ukraine. but the question is all about practicality here, because as you know, the us just days ago has called for european countries to ramp up their defense spending 5 percent of g d. p is what they're saying. this within the context of maybe about roughly 8 countries don't even reach up to 2 percent at this point. so

how sustainable is it to continue to ramp up defense on the one hand, and then provide a to ukraine on the other? well, this is what all the, your opinion is in effect, public in i'm sure. also behind closed doors has been talking about a chunk of the shots of germany. this morning was talking about the loose ending ditch rules in germany, but also on the european union level to a law. countries to take up money to make that so that they can finance these kind of defense spending, this kind of defense spending, which they haven't been able to do so far as so it's something that is a sense of urgency is being felt there. in fact, the 0 p, an army that savanski is talking about is something that has been on the to do list of the european union for quite some time. but as always, with in this a conglomerate of states, it's very difficult to find common decisions to find the common direction. these kind of things move incredibly slowly into appealing union. and,

and so let's get saying guys, you've got to do this up real quickly. otherwise, your own country's, your own children and he was saying will be on the street from russia and became like, love for you to weigh in here. how much backing does the ukrainian president have for a demand like that? well he has the backing of the europeans. uh they continue see have said they will, can support him for as long as it takes, but he hasn't touched with whatever it takes and that's what you find wanted from day one tons of defense spending. i mean, i've had conversations here behind the scenes with that it seems to be quite clear that one way of getting out of a know, read, or communicating well that you called me the 5 percent. that seems to be the new gold as far as present, the new to present would be the question where you spend the money. so if you're

being countries spend money on defense in the united states, that will probably count for something in one press briefing off to the other in the white house. don't shop is referred to as the deal maker in c. so deals can be done. but the overall, as in question is what the europeans want for themselves in the future. and whether they can sing independent the and not simply respond to demands coming from the white house on defense, but also on how they structure their own defense here in europe. so this is an opportunity and to quote the fathers for minutes, the maximum press on crises is the way 0. does things up of the question is will it do it now? finally, mikaela refers to the phrase deals can be done on the zalinski also said that nato membership should still very much be on the table. is that

a viable option at this point? and what might that mean for any potential deals? negotiations with proven for uh for putting on my site and that type membership of your training is an absolute no god is an absolute red flag. that's exactly what he's been complaining about for years. that even countries such as poland, all the baltic states became members of nato. former state said william, the influence of the former soviet union, that's important still regards as his or russia's naturalization of influence. so this kind of from putting supposed they pushed perceptive perspective a creeping up of nato membership to was russia's mode something. one of the reasons he says he started as well, the attack ukraine. so ukraine, membership of nato for putting it would be an extreme provocation. i think um, so it possibly that as why um zalinski is now talking about your opinion on me,

which would not be nato. it would of course, include several members of nato because they are overlaps there. maybe that is one idea that could possibly be a kind of compromise. i don't know, but that's something that the landscape spent a lot of effort, a lot of energy talking about today. um, i guess uh the security structure in europe is what is on the table here. the something that people have been talking about really for a long time. and one of the key players that you would have to tap into there is of course, germinate having just heard from zelinski here. oh, where do you see the relations between ukraine and germany at this point? or on a former level of the declarations from the drum and translate from the german government, but also from the other presentations to the juvenile position politicians who are very likely to come to power off to the election in the next weekend. and they all say that the support for your training is unshakable. will in fact possibly even be

stronger depending on who comes into color in germany. and i think that is also quite big support for that within german society. about what that means in concrete terms, is still pretty open at the moment, and a lot of that's revolves on the one hand or around money. how much money can you mobilize a tool on the german army to get the good will personnel for the german army and so on. and how quickly that can be done. for instance, just as one example, a german battalion is to be stationed in this way. and yeah, on, on the border with russia basically as part of a natural force. and it takes years to do that. the plans are that it's, it's happening, it's in the process of happening. but it will take several years before it's actually happened with that, that kind of move is much too slow. it's really a question that's in the room here. want to end things here with mikayla could from the back at the munich security conference for lack of

a better way to put it back. i l. a. a paul was cast over proceedings when the us vice president j, the vans, essentially lecturer european dignitaries in the hall there. i know that you haven't had a chance to do very much reporting as you've been stuck here talking to me. but what is the sense that you are getting about the atmosphere at the conference following up both the german chancellor speech and now of course the loudermilk zelinski speak. trust me. we've been doing a lot of talking here since yesterday about the spies 80 bonds with less. everybody who's pretty much themselves, despite the fact that he has to be announced what he was gonna say in a street journal interview, just before he arrives here in munich. and, and at least that is a united message from the europeans, from germany. that is a one sons full of the back kind of interference in the election. there is election in the state days

a time from now here in germany. and we heard that both and the opposition vida for these matching is going to be the likely next on. so it's upholding is anything to go by on. the card chancellor will have souls. but there's a deep sense of concern over how marks the united states. donald trump, is into creating a facts and into a sense to be criticizing a european democracy in questioning the separation of powers. and that is a domestic issue that is happening in the united states in real time as we speak here. so this is something where we so europe will have to find a united voice. but it doesn't have that as long as someone like victor o'bonham gary in 5 minutes that embraces the fall, writes need to at least vitally, wasn't invited to it because he's seen as to extreme. but did have a side meeting with you as far as present 30 minutes. that's and mikayla cosigner

in munich and hans bach, you in this video with me. i think you both the ukrainian president also talked about the relentless russian to tax and ukrainian territory that have started almost 3 years ago. that of course, that was all he had to say on michael look who thank you very much. more news after this, the relentless johnny still makes use of chaos and who go

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