the industry 0 the 5 years often. we remember when the world still stops march 8th on dw, the. this is the w news live from berlin, ukraine's president calls for a european army to confront russia's threat at the munich security conference lot of years lensky, or does year up to shape its own future. as washington signals is cutting back its commitment to european defense. also coming up the latest hostages, released by her last began their joyful re unions with families against deco sheehan and 2 others are back in israel. hundreds of palestinian prisoners are also freed in exchange. and rebel fighters, backed by wanda, enter congos,

2nd, the biggest eastern city after government forces withdraw. condos. president condemns lawanda. and what he calls is expansionist tendencies. the melissa janet, thanks for joining us. german chancellor, olo shells says defense spending must increase significantly to counter the threat from russia. speaking after munich security conference. he also responded to controversial remarks from u. s. vice president j. d vance, who urged europe to open its doors to far right parties. schultz said germany has the right to decide how it deals with far right. hate speech serial norm strikes my debt small to also munich, ukrainians has been flooding years. lensky warns that russia poses

a danger to all of europe. he said, new russian divisions destined for bella roost could attack nato countries. lensky also called for the creation of a european army to deter russia for, let's be on us now. we can, throughout the possibility that america might say no to europe on the east, that threats and that many, many leaders have told it was your that me, it's its own military. and i me, and i mean of you are a and i and i, i really, i really believe that time has come on forces of your must be created. w's chief, political correspondent, nina has a, is at the conference and this is her assessment of the last these comments. if you

talk to security experts, defends experts, foreign policy analysts and you ask them about the potential, the prospect of a european army. so use, they would smile at you and say they say is the on so that politicians give when they don't have answers to the pressing questions of the day. and with all due respect, steve, all of them is the landscape. this is a goal that europeans will have to miss you at some point to really form this unity . but it's still a very, very long time away from now. now it's up to the europeans to find ways to implement the 1st steps towards those um forces. well, let them use the landscape knows that, and he wants europeans to act and implement. a more strategically the european strategic autonomy and plans that they have all agreed on. so they need to agree which weapon systems do we need. why do we owe all the different systems that

kind of collaborate with one another? what? how do we get the financing going so that even smaller countries can buy munition lessons? this is not just about trying to, to get soldiers together to form this ami by europeans. this is also about where do the weapons come from? where does the munition come from? below them is the landscape says, okay, i'll remind you of our ultimate goal. and that way you can talk more specifically about the steps that need to follow. now, in his address to the conference, all of schultz called on europe and its allies to be ready to support ukraine for the long haul. even after any peace deal might be made. the over p as in europeans, being the strongest supporters of ukraine. and we are going to do this full as long as it takes to things these a so long have you notice, and the most indeed sidelines stopped when the weapons both silent them and the at

the end of the negotiated solution. ukraine will have to be able to defend itself against possible future russian attacks. finance. yet not today. it will be a massive financial material. logistic challenge, you know, can you crane cannot do this on its own in the foreseeable future? and that is why the support of us, europeans. yeah. and the transatlantic and international partners will continue to be necessary. the same way we have shed burdens together in the past is the last mines. i'm the 1st on the top we asked dw, as chief political correspondent and you know how that, how much substance there is to these words of unity between ukraine and the u. this is definitely one of the core questions. just how united is europe and has your really understood this wakeup call. that is not the 1st one off to the

americans who came here. and um, essentially told the europeans, again look, we're going to be interested a lot more in other regions of the world in particular, asia, the, in the pacific. and you all going to do, or you are going to have to do a lot more for your own defense. so this is something where now you do feel like europe is advert crossroads when it comes to its future. and all of them is it landscape. the ukranian president was very clear in his remarks here in the speeds . this is not no longer about the europeans doing everything they can to help ukraine defend itself. this is about finding ways for europe to come together. so that europe ultimately can defend itself, potentially against russia, because base is becoming aggressive. now we all know that ukraine has received well received the candidate stages to become a member of the european union off the rest as

a full scale invasion 3 years ago. but of course, that is a long way down the road. now it's more about trying to coordinate a lot back so well, your of can do to ramp up support for your grade level. so to find more common priorities. the w's chief international editor, richard walker. now joins us from the munich security conference. thanks so much richard. so we're hearing calls for a european army and more european co operation. have you seen a common vision for european security at this year's conference of the yeah, i mean there are a lot of visions out there at the moment, melissa, and it did. did you have a feeling? i guess that the moment that, that at this meaning security conference, it's one of those moments where you feel the ground is sort of moving. they need feel feet and, and nobody ever quite noticed. exactly was they're standing in the right place

where he's going to head to the people are in a kind of yeah that this we don't want to kinda make them feel. can we even counsel in the united states any longer. and all of this discussion about european defense is really taking place in that context. so, so there's an awful lot of unset and see it really does kind of disquiet underlying based at the same time, you go to these different ideas. and so let's keep coming and talking about the european ami and other people talk about other things. i think it's going to take a little bit of time for the kind of the task to settle and people to really kind of identify what, what are the really big issues. and i think the really big issues that people agree on defense spending, partly that, that needs to be more defense spending. this issue of procurement that the europeans need to kind of club together and procure sorts of punctures that older and patches that weapons from weapons supplies together to have better economies of scale. part of that process needs to be that they need to simplify and standardize . so there are too many different kinds of weapons systems to whom the different

european countries use compared to save united states, which is most standardized. so that needs to be a surprise to some standardization to, to reduce the number of a systems to use. and that may sounds like relatively simple and a rational thing to do with it, okay, we use this but not that. but of course, different companies in different countries have different interest and different systems. so the process of how you actually go through this attempt to standardize and consolidate is going to be a difficult what to all of these things have to happen. there's going to be a process at the same time. they've got to try to manage the relationship with the united states, but it's showing seriousness about one of these things i think is seen as a way to the, to improve relations with the united states or so seriousness about defense as a way of kind of stabilizing the relations that but yeah, an awful lot of uncertainty preventing all of these discussions, right. i mean, richard, you talk about um, procurement on how everything has to be standardized. i think a good analogy would be perhaps the frustration of an iphone user messaging an

android phone user and vice versa, with that little green bubble and, and the red, but the blue bubbles sort of, uh, communication. anyways. uh, speaking of us, vice president vance. he said to me, no, do you know if you're a page google uh oh, the us is address maximizing that analogy lives. no. stretch it too much. yeah. yes, absolutely. and speaking of yes, vice president vance. he said in no uncertain terms that the us would be focusing it's attention else where you were talking about the ground beneath everyone's feet . how has that message? can you talk a little bit more about how that message has been received in munich? yeah, well the thing is that message is coming from the company ministration, but it's not coming so much from fence to me. this was the extraordinary thing about his speech yesterday. he fairly mentioned ukraine. in fact, the main mention of ukraine was to say that, you know, it's a threat emanating from russia all for that matter. china, he felt was secondary to what he described as the frank from within, within europe, which he sees as a crumbling of the free speech rights. and to

a lack of respect for political minorities the way he was describing it essentially saying that needs to be more respect shown to people who are supporting a populous policies searching. so that wasn't really coming from fence that has been coming kind of on the sidelines. these come from accessories, those being traveling around europe or in recent days, it does come from vance in other context. but, but that's the, the kind of the mix of these things, of a kind of a political and cultural roadside coming from france at the same time as these 2 months about stepping up on defense, which is seen really in europe is highly did legitimate europeans, really feel that they are on the back switch on this realize they need to step, but that, that's making everything just so confusing. so a lot of people use chief international editor richard walker in munich, thanks for joining us. and stay with the w for special live coverage from the munich security conference. when donald trump special envoy to ukraine, keith kellogg takes the stage with the ukranian, british,

and polish foreign ministers in lithuania, as defense minister for a town hall discussion called peace through strength. a plan for ukraine that's later in this hour. here's a quick look at some more stories making headlines. african leaders have elected duties for administer as the new head of the african unions executive armed at a summit in addis ababa mood ali? yes, suv. be out former canyon prime minister, a lot or dean got to secure the job. he takes over as the applicant union struggles to respond to the conflicts in sudan and congress. tens of thousands have joined anti government protests in the central serbian city of crowds. yeah. but students have been leading massive anti corruption demonstrations for months now, following a deadly railway disaster in november, the protesters blamed the collapse of a freshly renovated train station woof on graft,

and are demanding accountability. the health of frances is expected to stay in hospital in rome. so at least several more days, francis was admitted with bronchitis. on fridays, the 88 year old has struggled with multiple health issues for years and often uses a wheelchair or cain at public appearances. supporters of the lebanese militant group, hezbollah have attacked a convoy of united nations peacekeepers heading to be rude. airport one u. n. vehicle was torched and the outgoing deputy commander of the unit, philip mission was injured. pro hezbollah protestors have blocked roads to be rude, airport. after love and on prevented to run in plains from landing, their 3 is really hostages, released by him last today have arrived back in israel and our reuniting with their families here. your horn saggy debt collection and such that truth on off are the latest group of hostages to be exchanged for hundreds of palestinians in his really

detention. this is some moments ago the dead cuz 10 saw his wife i for months of being held in captivity. she was 8 months pregnant with her 3rd child when he was abducted their family watched and oh, and celebrated with champagne. the new works that can explain how excited the or how much we've been waiting for him at home. the reunion followed a carefully planned hand over the occasion was left onto a stage with 2 other hostages. yay! horn and sasha proof enough and surrounded by dozens of arm, tomas militants, the free urge for the completion of the seas fire, which almost came to

a breaking point earlier this week. when her mas threatened not to release more hostages, the group accused israel of violating the terms of the truce by blocking aid from entering garza in response israel's button to resume the fighting. after the release mazda mind that both sides follow the terms of their agreements, the release of the 6th group of enemy prisoners confirms that there is no way to release the rest except through negotiations and the commitment to the requirements of the ceasefire agreement. the group just released a total of 19 hostages. according to the deal, 14 more are expected to be released before the end of the month. 8 of which are believed to be dead. in exchange,

israel is freeing a large number of palestinian prisoners. in this 6 glue, more than 350, the largest number so far in romano, a cheering crowd welcomes their family members. some of them appeared, gone. according to the red crescent, for have to be taken to hospitals to uh, we are being through hunger, cold torture, and she mediation. but we are a strong nation that believes and it's close. and hopefully we'll be free soon on search and see looms over the next phase of an already precarious agreement. planned to begin in march. a freelance journalist by like sledding, joins us from tel aviv invalid. can you talk a little bit more about who the hostages are, who are released today? yes. well, 1st of all, the c hostages that are from many of the old is the community that has suffered the

most uh, october, 7th, uh, 20 or its uh, people still held and they kept seemed to be in the gaza strip stuff after the 3 that were released today, so tens of the 10s the new goals community were taken captives. and since others though, maybe hundreds of those even were killed, that looked over 7. so we're just going to come get about community the stuff of the most. and now it's getting back uh its uh citizens the one by one though. um ms . sasha, i just missed his uh, grand mother and he was informed today unfortunately that his father was killed in october 7th by home. us as well. that's something that he did not to know why he was in because this trip a matter of course. uh yes, he is the one that uh, was the taken up today. yeah. and even the, his, the brother as they didn't, they kept civically. he's not even included in the 1st space of the deed,

but of course the community is very pleased to see him back and us to give them him the american citizens that met his wife and his daughter, and that there was born while he was in captivity now the family is a complete again. now israel has also released more than $300.00 prisoners. what do we know about them? yes, 300 said is 69 prisoners were released today in all of them. they can be called the mexico to prisoners because $333.00 of them were arrested. the jew ringing in the uh, ground operation. and because of strep. so we're talking about state garza, that we're not in bold on the silver 7 that i thought were in victo were 7th attacks, but they were a rested during care of the ground. the age of one of them is the manager of fiddler. i'd one hospital that says it is uh world wide, the competing calling for his the release of the 56 and more are in life sentence,

the prisoners that they were released today. most of them may will be back at to the west bank and east of paige originally, and some of them met out. some of them actually like all of them because they were symptoms to life. they have been involved in texas killed. is there any is one of them is the aide for them on one, but it was his name but, but it will be, he is a will be, was involved in a tech to build the 12 is a lease. so we're talking about the people that carried out who were involved in a tax that has actually killed his writings, but now they are being released in exchange for these uh, is there any hostages? and what about the next phase of the deal? everything's been so tentative, touching, go, what is planned and what are the obstacles to moving forward? this is why we speak and actually premise that and the always the holding the meeting with his cabinet by phone. this is the meeting that is supposed to be

um a held in order to discuss the is ready, the position on the 2nd phase of the deal. something that did not start until now it will go that the lease formally. it did start paid back when nothing y'all was in washington on the 16th they all said the deal. uh last monday. that's uh um, that means that it will still did not decide what exactly is going good to do or uh, it'd be coming a few days. maybe we'll have more clarification on these or 80 position here. but of course, also one more thing that is very important, the ultimate so that the trump has given to her mouse and said that he will back his role in any thing that it could do. he was talking about 12 o'clock saturday and according to the met and to walk to washington dc time, which is 7 o'clock our time here in israel. so exactly right now. and still nothing

happens on the i doubt that anything will happen because these raiders were saying that if the dynamic continues of this, the release of hostages, at least in the 1st space of the deal, it doesn't have any interest to stop the the less for now it definitely it doesn't have any legitimacy in these very the public among families of the hostages. that's something that is taking in consideration of course. and until the end of the 1st phase of the deal, of the thing that anything will change. but for the 2nd stage of the deal, it could be that as well demand be complete. this are meant to the gaza strip and how much giving up on the governance have begun to strip something that they will not accept apparently. and that could trigger resuming the war. i like citing, thank you so much. thank. in the democratic republic of the congo em 23 rebels have entered because of the capital of south cube province. after seizing the airport that serves the city. there will

end them back group has quickly advanced south after taking the key city of goma last month. armed a man in the town of coop. i'm. it's not being confirmed to the people in the footage are. for the m 23 rebels seen here in a nearby town, have been advancing up lightning speed through safe keeping province. much like they did in north keeper. there were one da backed rebels, have taken the main airport, serving the area and have entered the regional capital to cover its home to around 1000000 people. come galleys, troops were seen on patrol in the city. unconcern had been growing among residence that they would leave allowing the m 23 militia to take control here to turn the light. and we all stead. i think i have to leave the city because those who are

protecting us are already running away and diamond civilian. i'm going to go to the mountains, the one on that they've got me about the and about the go see. the reason surgeon violence has made an already diary humanitarian situation in the eastern democratic republic of congo. worse, the fighting destroyed tens of thousands of emergency shelters, affecting 350000 displaced people according to the united nations. in response to the latest escalation and the conflict congolese president, feel like she's a k d speaking at the munich security conference claimed rwanda, which box the m. 23 rebels, expansionist visions, in the eastern part of congo, to uncalled for sanctions against the country to do much good. what gets you on? come on. so if it can't be, how can the integrity of a country be violated?

like this concept? it's people must because without the country responsible being sanction songs, you know, once that they, you tell me that sponsor for london presidents, polk, i'm a, has repeatedly denied his country, supports the m 23 rebels. despite the accusations long made by the united nations, the latest escalation and violence comes those african union leaders gathering ethiopia with the aim of ending the conflict and outcome that people in the affected areas of the eastern d. r. c are hopeful can be achieved. the german authorities say to people h 2 and 37 have died from injuries sustained and thursday's car running attack in munich. dozens of others were injured when and a half down asylum seeker drove into crowds at a trade union rally. federal prosecutor say they suspect that the incident was religiously motivated, aimed at disrupting germany's upcoming election in just over

a week when the german chancellor also shows has visited the site of the attack in munich, dw is chief political editor of mckayla cosigner as more and he came to the scene here twice today, a 1st to laid down some flowers that this crossing less than 30 people were inches when this young man drove essentially into crowd into a demonstration. this kind of demonstration for they've rights. and he then went and spoke to the emergency services for almost an hour. and then he were tons of to once again reiterate that she is the very decisive in acting where action is needed. and that's the full loan need to apply for such a terrible act. this of course being of mine, a young man who came here as a teenager. then he was erotic, who lives here in germany,

and authorities believe that there was a religious extreme, this motive behind this. so, and all that. so it's clearly very moved after having spoken to the emergency services today. and we turn now to dw special live coverage at the munich security conference, where a town hall discussion is about to get underway between donald trump's special envoy to ukraine, keith kellogg, who will sit down with the foreign ministers of ukraine, the u. k. and poland as well as lithuania, as defense minister to discuss, quote, a plan for ukraine. and while we're waiting, it looks like it's about to start. we do have the w as chief international editor, richard walker, joining us again from munich or richard. i know it's really hard to predict things at munich, security conference, always lots of surprises, but what should we expect from this panel discussion, or what do you hope to learn as well? i think what everyone really wants to line and what the person,

the people want to listen to is really key. hello. so he's the former us general, who was named by donald trump faces envoy for dealing with the is the russian, oregon some crane. and, you know, there's even meantime uncertainty about his very role. if you remember a few days ago when, when donald trump 1st of all put ads on social media that, that he had spoken to vladimir putin and that he wanted to get this. a trucks process started and when he listed the people who he was assigning to to take off space towards process that keith caleb wasn't on the list despite being having be named hayes and voice just a month or 2 earlier. so i'm sure that our colleagues, sarah kelly, will be asking keith kellogg. why? whose name was that on that list? what exactly his role is going to be if the invoice to ukraine is not in the talks about ukraine, then what is the invoice to ukraine gonna be doing? um, so questions around that and, and how does carol, kind of,

how does he frame the position to the trumpet ministration has towards this whole process. we've got, you know, so many different messages to go and we've got the, the social media post by truck, from various comments by trumping various engagements with the price. we've got the comments by the us defense secretary pete tech success, which we thought the contradictory with each other. we've had some comments coming from j events going across as we were saying on. yeah, a lot of those refer to something else. so there's a kind of, there's a lot of noise coming out to the us administration. so i think we'll be looking for some clarity from kayla with respect to what his role is with respect to what kind of leverage to us is prepared to apply to the russians to get them to take this process seriously. what their active duty is towards what they would see as a durable piece because they support you. creighton is the media europeans where you want a once a piece of is not going to get in frames just a few months a couple of years later via 5 slides. may i please. so these are the answers that

we're really looking for. and of course, we've got another cost of characters uh, you know, major players sitting around this table as well. but really i think this part like so many. and one of those people indeed is going to be on keys kind of what he has to say. i hate to dwell on the us contingent so much, but they do seem to be the ones creating a lot of surprise. and when you talk about catalogue, you mentioned pete hague stuff on same different things as you were talking. i wrote down. there's also of course, secretary of state micro rubio, there was vice president j. d vance, and let's not also forget eli mazda has anything that they said so much of it in contradiction with each other. richard, but do you have any take ways from everything that each of these people said that indicate any hint of a unified us position on even one thing in regards to ending the war and conflict between russia and ukraine?

yeah, well i suppose what united cities, deference towards trump, i the referred to, you know, he's getting started right. almost getting started, but actually maybe maybe if you can just uh, let's just take a look here one moment. all right, we're headed logic. the frame. this is a special edition of door to those conflicts down here at the munich here to conference. and we have the great pleasure of being joined by the foreign minister of ukraine andres to be a general keeps kellog us special envoy for ukraine and russia. roddic sikorsky polish foreign minister. welcome to you. david lama. u. k, for and secretary and the village 2nd, the n a. the defense minister of lithuania. thank you so much to all of you for joining us. i'd like to get right to it. we have lots of discuss for mister of ukraine after all of these days after everything that you've heard. so 1st this

phone call, the trump initiated with putin leader informing zelinski. then you're natal aspirations, the full territorial restoration being called unrealistic by the us defense secretary and the subsequent talks. that's lensky has had with trump. and later with vance, where i know you were also present as well. i'd like to ask you how confident do you feel at this point that the us will have your back in any ceasefire? a few stocks for looking for this opportunity to stop our discussion. so i would delegation at all that i tend to be uni recent government. now we have much more better, more and more confidence view. i'm not alone. i remember very well um, but it, it, it,

our visit present them directly from my the open c s i go to attend munich. confidence because it period all you put in the i'm warnings had been to come up, had been a, not this time. my point of you'll be, show whole 3 show whole and you don't really put talk about you wouldn't be a moment above european moment. and besides a moment for ukraine, there is no dog. that's the only way to achieve long bluffton. just these for ukraine is the concept piece. so splunk and you cream test recipe crowd to which you leave. peace is this important, not money too late to visit them. the bees via talking about

just comprehensive lofton beef, not the absence of war. we should not repeat the mistakes or from you and you have each trip and $8787.00. yes, a go. and we will never accept this. no decisions resolved. you could say nothing about ukraine resolved to claim and also nothing above you would have been resolved bureau. it seems to me, it is also a time for you to do most 3 stands. i have to say you sound a bit more confident actually than what i heard from zelinski this morning who did not seem all that confident that that it would indeed many develop and so many in us. but as i mentioned the in a much more. but then what do you have to turn in, but i'd like to turn to general kellogg. now if you have just said in the past couple of hours that europe won't even be at the table and any p stocks are

defined as a table. how should it work? how's the, how's you to work if, if they're not there? because trump has said, europe needs to own this. well, i think when you say your need zone it and at the table, whatever you find out from nicely with my definition that the table when you're actually sitting down there, you don't to me. that doesn't mean the interest for not taking a part of that considered they're not used. they're not developed. that's means you have to table, you have an ability in have input. but when you got them, when you got those 3, just really, really to engage partners with, you guys rushing and you got your credit fighting right now in prison from coming industry differently to basically be for lack of a better term. or we only use it name or fibers like i never walked her mediator, but he's going to need to take that he's going to do this alone is why don't we ever shed in the never said that it was. it's all a definition of terms when you say it,

and i think this is where i would challenge anybody out there. when you looked at it said, we've always said, you know, when we talk about america 1st, we share america 1st has never been america alone. we never should. we never should we're nice relation to service and i shall sions, policy. what are you with donald trump is done, and i challenge people share this force. we're going on for 3 years, 3 years. okay? the 1111 or 11 years, but we're talking 3 years with the russian engagement when, when a gauge, when you look at that, this is what happened when you present ignited states in a minimal intervention. maybe. okay. the definitely shall middle of the intervention is considerably different than mine. but tell me, show me, tell me who here is audience? didn't you shout or yeah. when did, what did russia do when president trump was press united states? he did nothing. nothing. he didn't, he didn't, and over a president bush, he didn't have a president obama. he did it under prison biden. he didn't do anything under

a president trump. so we've always had work that way. i because he told me that he level the playing field to to do that. you know, i think that's where you look back and you say to people, well, how is america can do this? how is going to work with a piece who's trying that is originally an american term, and he's looked at the same way. and, and so we have had the model the present from said the model. that once we come up with a piece arrangement, a piece deal, then we will get to work and making sure that that's in a forcible. it's a good deal. it's a fair deal. go back to what you present from said in as you, in general assembly and i'm going back on history because, you know, remember what the payments a co it's at george, i'm trying to say it is true for you've. if you get a history, be prepared to repeat, it will be basically go back to you at 1st you in general assembly speech president, trump talk about america 1st. that's all people. remember, the 2nd half of that speech was about national sovereignty. they talked about the shopping view of nations, and he said quite clearly in their different nations by each ford sovereignty, we will be with you based on that. so this is where i said the challenges,

you know, when you say things like that, you put it on the negative and i put it on the, on the positive that dash there, you know, the last 3 years for 2 years, the previous administration were concerned that president trump has what, when you're looking for the happen to ukraine, he says, well, i want to, you know, the, if we stop the killing, the level of killing can we all know this is your move or to level of depth? when you look at instructions, use a if somebody made a comment of miracle when you came out of their extra city, the size of denver, colorado is the size of atlanta, georgia is destroyed. when you look at the amount of death and destruction within you, crime. so when you eat which, which is massive, the level of destruction in ukraine is it's, it's 3 times the amount of gas for the ukrainians a lot. that's americans suffered in the korean war, and the vietnam war combined over 11 years. so my take on

this is if you think you can kill your way out of this war, you can't. okay, it is not just killing alone it's, it's quite, you're gonna have to have with a comprehensive plan, a planet of work for the allies working together. but it's going to be a comprehensive plan, i don't whatever my time. yeah. gotcha. now. so i'd like to get the response from the polish foreign minister. um, you know, we heard this morning. um, the new secretary general basically said to europe, stop complaining, make a plan. we understand that there will be a somebody on monday. perhaps you can confirm that a a leverage. do you have to get back in the game? what's your plan? well, to convince president putin to become more reasonable, we have to convince him that the price that he would have to pay would be unacceptable. this is a classic colonial rules. they usually take a decade, look at vietnam, look at the l g r e. i look at them go, uh,

and he's from come from his sons schultz. isn't that is a bonus. um, uh, russian economy is starting to suffer. if we convince him that we are not eager to go back to business as usual, that we can sustain it for longer than he and then he will make a deal. so all plan should be to stay the costs to continue supporting ukraine and to, to support ukraine in, in its defense for as long as gonna crane is willing to defend itself, stay the course without the americans. or we made that clear and no, no, because they don't. they don't seem as if they're in it for the long haul, perhaps a misunderstanding the general. but what i agree with the general that is that if you could be ended quickly, of course, everybody wants peace, you know, pushing on space. but on his terms, the question is, how would you get to a deal that any everybody can live with?

and if it can be done, foster great, but for in my mind to get to it foster you should prepare for the medium term. the 1st time i will disagree with the 14 dozens of on peace. he went through because for him void also is an instrument to control his society, to control his country and the regions you feel speaking about the 2 reasons why he wants war. but if you capitulate it, he would have pieces, right? so he would prefer not to pay the price. i'd like to turn to the u. k. 4 and secretary, i mean, you can always likes to say that you have this special relationship with the united states and. and through that lines, i'd like to ask you what your plan is right now for follow trump try and build a bridge between the us and the you present your own plan that step back for a month and it was the us and the u. k.

that 3 years ago presented the global community because of all shad intelligence capability with the fact that many in europe said could not but wouldn't happen. that person was about to invite you cried to. and i would say to you, cried the month before about evasion. and i remember looking at all the faces of those young men and women in key who had lost their lives because the story begins back in 2014. and since then, combined as a transatlantic alliance, we have supplied, you, cried with the military capability, with the humanitarian capability and the economic capability to fend off this war. i'm the bravery the coverage, the innovation, and you cry, which is also doesn't get talked about the innovation and drug capability has been

phenomenal. given that people said this would be over within a week. so that's what we've achieved today. that has been a conversation that all american friends have become. it is a, it's take about 2 weeks. there is no negotiating. the settlement. we know our assessment is sudley. that person has no desire to the go shape. other than to say a capitulation from all ukrainian friends, which is something we cannot tolerate. and neither cannot american friends tolerate that because it would send the message to others. let's say that, do that. yeah. and by insight as well, us to try to have your imperial ambitions. and so we have to stand up to pay to we know that the truth is in that negotiation. the, the question is on what tubs one on to what all the security guarantees that ensure

the futon does not come back for more so that we have an enduring piece of what we know that it's a bit set. it's bits up when it gets, sorry. who's the minutes didn't what he breach the. um, i see a monitoring exercise 20 times. it didn't work, so something's got to be misplaced this time. but what, and that's why we believe in every best school populate to nato, is important to keep on the type of ministers, luckily. and how do you see the 1st steps to providing you, creating the security guarantees that it needs. and that would also make you feel comfortable. i mean lithuania, everybody talks about how you are also important xyz quite closely. well, 1st i was talking about it is the europe an army going forward? what would you like to see in the, in the, in the, the short term, the medium term, the long term cause lensky mentioned european force this morning. i think that's where i'm stopping from the most important moment. it smells every muscle of your,

of your cannot guarantee security to anyone if you're not strong enough. and therefore we have all been shaking a bit. i'd say, well, the costs are fast for days by team from brussels to munich, and brussel sites sole. a very interesting change in the room full of my colleagues in the course of 24 hours. when from this illusions about tonight to face i going to defend europe, we came to, i always ation, but we are going to defend ourselves with be helpful if united states and that's a bit different formula. and therefore, yes, we need to be in the room. wow. negotiation, this will be because we are going to america consequences as well, and we're going to be a part of it. but still looks address in 2 words. if there is no money on the table, and we will have to put both money on the table, now we have debts of over $7.00 decades to united states all over europe. okay. how

are you can for me to be the case because we will expire before that. but now i have less united states paid for your can security. this debt with interest came towel door. i file and we will have to deal with it if we want the account to help you print. so security guarantees means that we have to have the caps ability to guarantee anything. also to invest in ukraine, ukrainian defense industries, and europe and defense industry. i'm just going to have to face defense industry is a critical element of guarantee that's mr. put him off to, to, to free. yes. or however long he will need, but that's not have illusion. i just going to belong to finalize the form of his army to continue the production of defense industry. well, in his case, aggression industry and his country which is passed already. and if we want for ourselves to be strong for ukraine to be strong. so that means ukrainians who have technology engineers,

motivation and we have twice as large capacity for defense production. then we have money for it. bad means also investing in ukraine. and that also means that 1st step is financial instruments for all europe, or to borrow as much as we can bytes now to make acquisitions as fast as we can price. now, to build defense factories as fast as we can mile and also involving defense industry and asking them to change the rules as well. the usual sustainable careful business building rules is no longer applied. we do not probably believe anyone in this room, but we, i can be any sustainable agreements with mister present who, which can last long. i agree, but mr. trump has had, and hopefully will have an effect on mr. hutton. but he is a person who is building his empire and also i agree completely with ukraine. and courtney, having the war on his toilet is helping him as a dictator to,

to 5. but also china and russia are going to combine the actions. and therefore, our ability to have a military muscle will be needed when we will have both europe and united states to stand against both russia and china in the next stage, which will come soon. i think that a lot of the shock that has happened at this, you know, conference over the past couple of days is, is the matter in which the united states has chosen to engage with putting them in general catalog. i'd like to address this to you because the impression is that the us has already given up leverage to boot and before talks of youth and started the foreign policy chief actually use the word appeasement. she said it never works. you have previously suggested, and this is also before you are part of the administration and part of this effort that both sides of the conflict will have to make concessions. what concessions will prudent have to make as well when we,

when you get out there to me there's going to have to be things like territorial concessions as well. okay. so it is unrealistic for you to expect where you'd want to go to. but it's tara, tara jump territorial. it could be the gauge front of refusing to use force readouts for the use of force into the future. pro, from a political side, he's not going to downsize, is the military forces, hopefully get rid of what we're going to try to do is basically force him to the actions. and what you want to do is force him to actions. maybe he's uncomfortable with what i mean by that. as an example. right now what we're going to do is try to break is alliance that you currently have. she's kind of alliance around with north korea that wasn't turned before. so he's got an alliance with william that wasn't there before. he's got an alliance with china. that was there before me 4 years ago before. but let me those pivoted real quickly before is because what, what is really interesting to me is because now which i think is very, very important. is the how the old the, the elastic lions is coming together. well my response to the radical hyattsville

stop time. glad you showed up because we shed over 4 years ago, we've had a quicker you. the nato alliance way to clear declaration in 2014 in wales. that by 2024. that they would have 2 percent of their defense gdp in defense. which 20 percent was modernization? modernization. we're still a member of nato. we're not there. scripture for a long time for these nations getting had been credit relations of halls who now leaving the back where they're well over 4 percent getting 5 percent on the defense . but that's a question you want to make, and i understand how, how i mean, you said that you're gonna force produce, why is it, how, how is that? why you're going to do that? i think the, let's see. will it be because i mean, to lensky said this morning, he was very clear he wants sanctions on the front end, not on the backend to awesome. now, you can make more sense. you can maybe challenge is, is that on the table? when shaking sessions, of course the concession was good, both sides are gonna have to get. i mean,

you cannot say once the senior chance he wants to, thanks it more much of the questions actually what uses. but you sanctions as an example. i think it's a great example is ready sample to use it. and right now, most of the nation that you have sanctioned. i'm going to stay on the search engine for minute. one of the sections they talked about is what is driving russia is truly a petro of state, 70 percent of the money they are getting the fund. this war comes out of petro, oil and gas. most of that is going through the shadow sleep. most that shadow please 70 percent of sleep goes to the baltics me. we've intercepted one or 2 of those specials we, the united states have sanctioned their fleet by name the us as kellogg. the us, as of course the ones that were out there. and now you come up with a plan when you want to go by changes if you rate them on the level of $1.00 to $101.00 being low can be and i would probably the shirts, but unfortunately there's not a level 3. so what you say, what does he have to give out? well, maybe he gives up as well revenue and will force him to do it. because what you do is you're starting point sanctions that break the economic back. we've done this

before. we've seen this before. trumpet seen this before. we did, it gives you a range. we nearly broke the range back with economic sanctions in o l sanctions. we turn around, we give it back to him. so this is a point where you say, what do you do? these are the kind of things you make you do. if you think to make this and just make, if you think you're going to kill your way out of this you're wrong. because you have allows you review of history because what i mean by that, this is a nation we were talking about to russia that were willing to lose 700000 in 6 months. and the val are strong, right? they're willing to sacrifice for hundreds of thousands of theirs that their shoulders in, in, in a fight in a great 5 by the ukrainians. so much of their bringing in north koreans and not bringing the north koreans because i think it's a good idea. it's a tell the tell they're saying is they've got a problem with, with fanny, they've got a problem with shoulders. so you make them pay the price for that. so it's not just one say, it's just not the metric of saying it's kinetic military. you've got

a balance at all. it is across the board to many teen times what we devolve into. we're saying, well, it's him, it's a man, it's a manning issue. it's a killing issue as an aircraft issue with fighter bombers or chart much more than that. and what we're trying to say is it's got to be a comprehensive plan that ensures that he knows that, that we're going to snap back things because there's gonna be pressure is on him that run across the entire damage to put him on pressure. military pressure won't alone, won't do that, because you'll use mobilize, he's full tanks out of mothballs. he's pulled tanks out of museums. he can use of bringing in north korean troops. so what do you do you attack things other than just kinetic? you don't do. you don't dismiss that, what's your, your attack of the places as well? minister, of course i'd like to ask for your response to that. and also, if you can give us a little bit more of a sense of what's happening on the level and the conversations that are happening right now, that you are taking part in that. because you know,

zalinski saying that in addition to security guarantees from the united states, at least 200000 european peacekeepers would be needed to prevent a new russian attack. after any ceasefire. you're the driving force, of course, um, behind you discussions on joint financing of defense, you also hold the rotating e u presidency until june. do you have the feeling right now? because i mean there's, there's always been this conversation about the common defense. is this the moment right now for the you is this the moment where this happened is the will there from you, from, from your partners, especially germany and france. so we've been talking about european defense for decades. there was even a treated in the 1950s. the announcements made at the time of the us level, then the battle groups. we are now organizing a rapid reaction force brigade size force. we've appointed a uh you commission for defense in space. um,

but the defense is very expensive. it's follow the money is the rule. if we don't devote real results is it will not be serious. and the results have to come from somewhere and the list of sources is limited either from high contributions by misstates or from on spend funds from the covet of bones on new defense volumes. or perhaps a real moment. the bank modeled on the, the, but the voted specifically to nurturing in europe, in a defense revival. whether, whether we do this depends on, on whether people else good enough. and even though it says that to people spend more on defense, the closer we are to russia. but, you know, if we recognize the, put in is a threat to all of europe, that it is not then it is not fair for us. both the countries of europe to be

landed with the entire cost of defending multiple comfortable countries and richard countries to our west from this common threat, which is why it makes sense to shed the button so that you were appealing budget. we have a defense budget, it is called the european piece facility where we contribute in proportion to gp. unfortunately, this bus months from is being blocked by one europe and country hungry. and i hope, but the general color can help us to persuade hungry to start blocking these, these, these but sponsor because the it times i have become really dar we, um we have a, a leader who has appointed himself as someone who can decide who is the nation and who, who is and who, who has broken temple is established by 2 bloody civil world halls that thou shalt not change both as vice by false. so yes, i do believe that the uh,

the i, the, uh, has come full to treat your opinion defense seriously. secretary, let me um you have been quite skeptical about pollutants intentions of as you've, you've highlighted earlier he's, it's interesting to note that he's not talking about compromise. actually at this point, he's talking about his concerns being recognized that through language that's been coming out of the kremlin. and through that lens, i'd like to ask you, how do you see putting not walking away a victor if a ceasefire or p steel is broke or will, this is where we learn from our shed history and shared understanding it was an american and american diplomat. george keenan, who wrote a long telegram back to the united states that the gun,

the foreign policy of containment of russia to add in crossing that policy, which is a shared policy. we understood 2 things. we understood and sadly putin is indicative of this. there is a source tradition that he's leaning into paid of the great nicholas fast the west of that period and imperial and it sounds fissions. and there is a somebody here to tradition. let's remember he's a key type g b agent is the amount of deception i've been negotiating with him. we have to understand that and relate to that. and of course, what we know is, it's usually will that stops that ambitious to the south, the crime in the east, the russian hill with japan and to the west, the cold war. we should be deadly serious about those imperial ambitions. i set

in the house of commons as someone whose ancestors face down imperialism. but we have to be real about that threat, which is why roddic is right. and on that or can friends are right. and they've been right since roosevelt about european spending. and despite a that we have done, and it's now the case in europe that we're spending 53 percent of the money on minute traffic is coming from a year from europe. 60 percent of the humanitarian aid is coming from europe. but we will need to do more because combine the cross salt all g d p. it's about 0 point one percent. we can do back to that must do back to over this next period. if we all to face down, put it at, that's the basis of which we go into the garcia. she's understanding the shop lens of history. we have just a few minutes left. um and of course going to give you the last word um, but 1st i'd like to turn to the defense minister from from between you to,

to give us your last final thoughts. and i mean, you know, your comments on it for how concerned are you that, you know, we might be looking at competing visions actually for, for what might happen in ukraine. how concerned are you that you know about ukraine's voice being heard and all of this i'm actually mostly concerned about we're going to do and how foster, how we're going to do that. so regarding support your claim, i completely agree with 6 or let me much we need to agree of as our support is measure not by words, but by money and guns. so between yeah, i gave 025. send you the p last here, and we're going to keep for face of the you can do 025 percent gdp as a bring at least. but secondly, what we're going to do about us being

a credible papa. and being able to give any security guarantees. so again, we are a small country. we have now 4 percent g, p for defense. and we will have from 5 to 6 percent due to the defense from 2026 to $25.00. and that's not an easy decision. and we all social democratic government, nobody expected us to do that on the actually the 2nd day of our appointment to change those rules. but what we understand is that mr. fulton is not going to change that if it's auto sense of its edition, which i know on my family's, i mean, i come from the time i live at to us and put it in to watch it and let us buy. so it's, but at the same time, i understand that if we are absolutely absolutely pad full of this in theaters tool that fortune is planning to wage, then this is our only chance to avoid it. and that's what we need to do. and then

we are able to help you create otherwise is just so what do you think of all the task we've heard on this panel? interested probably is most of the physicians idea. so i agree. but let me summarize that also atlantic and ukrainian security and the reasonable as never before. if you need to, unity and friends of you show what a simple recipe come to and this war place here, 3 chief, just comprehensive alum lofton fif, lead the ship of the united states. but other than tom safe eve, the strong for america. if, if our medicaid is thrown, this is at peace royalties in peace. so because of the that's why our approach to proactively engagement or for united states.

video, liam, good. you, you bring that mix and we don't really believe in safe and video ready to discuss deeply resolved by medical baldness. how to proceed. um, we are looking forward for the visit of general color to ukraine. a very important visit and what is important and part of the lens convention thing to the speech v should go to the night over positions before really proved to rush up above the recipe. once again, the shape of the usa to raise the price for further aggression to russia, sanctions, frozen assets, price of oil. so we share with is ready effective instruments and the last point to stem from ukraine to strengthen our position. and yeah, i'm ready to keep our distance. so thank you. um that concludes the panel portion

of this. we have an absolutely packed room and we're going to have a microphone going around. so if you have a question, please do raise your hand. we will get to you and i'm just going to look around the room to can of sky please do you have been watching a session at the munich security conference with the american british whole ish, lithuanian representatives, mostly foreign ministers, but also keith kellogg. donald trump special envoy on ukraine and of course, dominating the conversation was how to solve at the end and the conflict. it was rather what i would call a cloak, really a spicy discussion if i do say so myself. we had of course, donald trump's representative keith kellogg, but he is of course not the only person of from the trump administration who has commented on the terms of negotiation, what they hope to negotiate. and it has been really confusing from washington, dc in terms of the signals being sent. of course, we have

a secretary state marco rubio, we've also had defense secretary pete heck says, don't forget of the mystery factor of ill on mark's role in all of this discussion . not present at the munich security conference, but ever at present in the white house. but in terms of the discussion that we just watch with dw sarah kelly, moderating. we also had the polish foreign minister making a point that is often not comfortably disgusting. europe, which is the fact that the border countries, those countries bordering russia, feel the threat of russia strong gets and that the further west you go into europe and union, the less of a feeling of urgency from those countries. and so there's a big question that a lot of people have not really been discussing at the munich security conference writ large, which is how politicians communicate of these important messages to their citizens in terms of the need for increasing european defense from

u. k. foreign secretary david lemmy up probably the, the strongest thing that he said was that the british believe that there needs to be an irreversible pathway to nato for ukraine. and that has to stay on the table in terms of negotiations. so that was the half hour session after munich, security conference just now. now also at the conference earlier german transel, all of the shows said defense spending must increase significantly to counter the threat from russia. speaking at the conference, he also responded to controversial remarks from us, vice president j. d vance, who urged europe to open its doors to far right. parties shows said germany has a right to decide how it deals with far right. hate speech does not once be also in unity. creating present water is a wednesday warranted that russia poses a danger to all of europe. he said, new russian divisions destined for bella roost could attack nato countries. the

lensky also called for the creation of a european army to deter russia. let's be on us now. we con, throughout the possibility that america might say no to europe on asia that threatened it. many, many leaders have told it was your that means its own military. and i, me, and i mean of you are a and i and i, i really, i really believe that time has come. the forces of your must be created. the utilities chief, political correspondent, you know, has a, is at the conference and this is her assessment of the landscape comments. if you talk to security experts, defense experts, foreign policy analysts and you ask them about the potential, the prospect of

a european me so use, they would smile at you and say they say is the on. so that politicians give when they don't have answers to the pressing questions of the day. and with all due respect, steve, all of them is landscape. this is a goal that europeans will have to piss you at some point to really form this unity . but it's still a very, very long time away from now. now it's up to the europeans to find ways to implement the 5 steps towards those um forces. well, let them use the landscape knows that, and he wants europeans to act and implement. a more strategically the european strategic autonomy. plans that they have all agreed on. so they need to agree which weapon systems do we need. why do we owe all the different systems that kind of collaborate with one another? what?

how do we get the financing going so that even smaller countries come by munition lessons? this is not just about trying to get soldiers together to form this army by europeans . this is also about where do the weapons come from? where does the munition come from? below them is the landscape says, okay, i'll remind you of ultimate goal. and that way you can talk more specifically about the steps that need to follow. now. in his address to the conference, it will show it's called on europe and it's alice to be ready to support you create for the long haul. even after any peace deal might be made. c o, p, as in european. so being the strongest supporters of ukraine, and we are going to do this full as long as it takes to things. these is so long as the notice and the most indeed sidelines stopped when the weapons both silent them and the at the end of the negotiated solution. ukraine will have to be able to

defend itself against possible future russian attacks. finance. yet not today. it will be a massive financial material. logistic challenge, you know, can you crane cannot do this on its own in the foreseeable future? and that is why the support of us, europeans, yeah. and the trans atlantic and international partners will continue to be necessary. the same way we have shed burdens together in the past. it's a lot minds. i'm the 1st our top to we ask you to use chief political correspondent, nina. how's that? how much substance there is to these words of unity between ukraine and the u. this is definitely one of the core question is how united is europe and has your really understood this wake up. cool, that is not the 1st one off the the americans have came here and um, essentially told the europeans, again look, we're going to be interested

a lot more in other regions of the world in particular, asia, the in the pacific. and you all going to do, or you are going to have to do a lot more for your own defense. so this is something, wow, now you do feel like europe is advert crossroads when it comes to its future. and below them is it landscape. the ukrainian president was very clear in his remarks here in this speech. this is not no longer about the europeans doing everything they can to help ukraine defend itself. this is about finding ways for europe to come together so that europe ultimately can defend itself, potentially against russia. because base is becoming aggressive. now we all know that ukraine has received while it receives the candidates stages to become a member of the european union. off the rest has a full scale invasion 3 years ago. but of course that is a long way down the road. now it's more about trying to coordinate

a lot better. so what you're of can do to ramp up support for your trade by the will to, to find more common priorities. and now d, w as chief international editor, richard walker joins us again from munich. richard i earlier called that's a session rather spicy, but i also felt like i didn't walk away having a better sense of where keith kellogg was coming from. what was your take? yeah, so i mean, we did get, you know, a bit of the emphasis that, that some of been hoping to see from kellogg, which we haven't had quite to the same extent from, from other members of the administration that, that is emphasis. so on use of leverage. and so he was talking about it saying that the trump would be prepared to, to, to take effort to try to appeal a way russia from it supports his countries like north korea, iran and china. well that it would be making efforts to time down further on its

world trade, which, which is being able to 6 it to keep going despite the sanctions that are in place. so nice. but that wasn't a huge amount of detail about how he would achieve that, for instance, that yeah. how would you know, from tried to pull away china from russia? i mean, this has been, i'm sorry for a long standing discussion in american florida, from tennessee. so uh, circles, whether you can drive a wedge between china and russia, a lot of extra say this extremely unlikely. and those are the mechanics of how they would go off to display all trades. the so called shadow fleet of ships that, that russia is using to try to evade the sanctions to this or on other ships. but no detail on that. but with the fact that he was emphasizing it, i think will be something that is seen positively by some but there was only always caveats about this. like, how much is kayla really suddenly in the sense of this process, given that he's not at this stage by,

by trump as being one of the members of the negotiating seen friends and the richard a where did you see potential disagreements among the europeans in terms of what they said, unfortunately it sounds like i've lost out audio signal. i'll tell richard, we've got to speak to you in just a moment. 1234, richard. i don't think richard can hear us unfortunately. well that is the w sizing. i can hear you now. ok, well richard, with very little time left. if you keep going out shaky signals in this hotel here . yes. with very little time left very quickly. 0 one take away from that session just now. your biggest well i, i, i, i think the main takeaway was, there's some would see some reassurance in the message. the callo cat that he was placing emphasis on leverage. he was saying, he said, for instance, at one point that you cannot and, and follow a positive appeasement. since this has been

a what that many of the worrying that donald trump is on as soon as possible. it's appeasement. so it's a more kind of whole case sounds from keys kellogg, but nobody knows if catalogue is really influential in this price, it's in fact, you know, there's only one person in the us who is definitely intellect. so in this process is donald trump, and course knowing donald trump's mind is, is a game that everybody tries to play. but it, it's a very difficult game to play. he's able to use keith international editor, richard walker. thank you so much for joining us. and that is it from us at the w news. we will return at the top of the hour with more. i'm melissa chan from me and the team. thank you for watching. it's the

name is nose available in the whole bag. save. wow, thank you so much for joining in. welcome to don't hold bad. a lot of people do that. it's all about saying it loud match. would it be nosy, bailey good, everyone to king, to check out the award winning called com. so hold back.