as the us broke with its european allies, a to you and resolutions on ukraine and sided with russia must go praised washington's refusal to condemn coats into his invasion with the rest of the ukraine growing faust, a string of european leaders are heading to washington this week to try to persuade donald trump to keep his support for teeth, nato strong. can they do anything to stop washington and moscow growing as a closer and the gaping new transatlantic risk from growing wider. i'm on youtube has mckennan in berlin. i'm. this is the day i or the we call on all other un member states to join the united states and pushing for a durable piece that will bring stability to europe and deter further aggression. let me assure you that you can once peace more than anyone,

but not any police. after years of destruction and suffering, it is time for all of us to commit to anything that's for russia has repeatedly tried to dismantle these rules this order. and it was with you to acupuncture. we are under no illusions. we recognize it will be challenging to get an agreement. but the time for russia and ukraine can make difficult choices and, and the fighting is now also on the day should germany get nuclear weapons. it's an idea being floated by the man likely to become it's next counsellor. it's part of his plan to we in europe of american military support. to me should opportunity to play with for me, the absolute priority will be to strengthen europe as quickly as possible. also that step by step we can achieve independence from the us. um, i never thought i would have to say something like this on a television program. welcome to the

day the united states has broken, runs with its european allies and sided with russia on 2 votes held of the united nations on the war in ukraine. it is perhaps the most public and visual display yet . so the us is on the go on a fundamental shift on ukraine. now the donald trump is in the white house, and that's on the 3rd anniversary of russia's full scale invasion. the 1st vote was in the un general assembly in new york on a european, drafted resolution blaming russia. so it's invasion of ukraine. i'm supposing ukraine's territorial integrity has the resolution pulse, but the united states voted against it together with russia and its allies, north korea, and bella russ, among others, and other votes, took place in the un security council. the resolution drafted by the us itself called for peace, but did not label russia as the aggressor. it paused,

but the united kingdom and france traditionally to key allies of washington, abstained from the if you bounce off of their attempt to amend the wording of the resolution with visa code for the crucial one. the actions of the united states at the un. i've drawn criticism in europe and also at home. nancy pelosi, the former speaker of the house said, ukraine site is the democracy itself. and the us, both in the u. n. today is contrary to all long standing supports of democracy. senator john cost is also with the democrats right. i was deeply troubled by the voters of the un today, which put us on the same side as russia and north korea. these on know how friends this post you a is a dramatic shift from american ideals of freedom and democracy. i'm doing now by john a hopes to a former us ambassador to ukraine. he's currently a senior director of the atlantic council erasures center and joins us today from

key welcome to w. thank you so much for your time today. the world watched as the united states turned away from its european allies out the united nations and sided with russia, how all the ukrainians, reacting to this, as well as the former us diplomats. this is a very sad day for me. i don't believe we have ever voted it to you and with such a pack of rogues like russia and the ron nicaragua, and a few others such a misguided resolution of the holes of which even in iran and china, refused to vote for the extent of ukrainians. of course, are unhappy about this. i know many of our european allies weren't happy about this, and i think it's due going to the very, truly reproach the video st. craddick approached the president trump takes toward

dealing with dictators of militarily powerful states. in this case, russia, we saw a similar approach to kim joan, north korea, during the 1st chapter, ukraine's former administer of the economy has said the choice to side with russia was deliberate. what do you think of that? well, i think it's true. it comes again from the notion that somehow the most effective way to persuade dictators is to be friendly to them rather than to show some steel . and i think that's the wrong tactic, whether ukrainian surprised by what they still happening as well as the war. you know, this happened one yesterday. it was, it was signaled in advance by several days as countries working on dress. my understanding is that one point maybe 5 or 6 days ago, we were working in conjunction with ukraine and our normal allies on

a sensible resolution. and that's simply stopped. and then we began to push for this, again, highly peculiar resolution which does not reflect the best value. so for that, and that was the best interest in my opinion of the united states really has been us been so adults with it's allies in europe. how much damage has to be done here? would you say? well, if this is a one off, it's quite manageable. if it's part of a longer pot or it can be, it can be very damaging. but my sense is, and i mean i could be wrong by sense, is that trump really would like to achieve a stable piece or at least ceasefire between russia and ukraine, ending the fighting, produced by law scales brazen aggressions. and somehow he thinks that speaking sweet words to put in uh, will help achieve that objective. where's my experience with long years of negotiations? first with the soviets and the russians suggest just the opposite me. so if i were

to ask you where this leaves the europeans, are they on the road now or? well, i know that there's a great concern about that and that's possible. but what i see at the same time is very unfortunate episode of present law chrome was in washington yesterday for very positive talks with trump about a european piece force and ukraine o. p. m. sharman is getting arrives early to this week for a similar conversation. and this i think will anchor trump in the, towards a better policy on getting the russians to compromise and make peace with ukraine up. i believe that the rare earth and critical minerals deal between the united states and ukraine is moving forward that to will provide a 2nd anchor for trump to pursue a sound policy to en mosque as aggression against ukraine. i just hope that the

next time president trump can say without prompting, the rush is the aggressor. what do you think a lot of miss susan was uh, thinking, as he was watching all of this happened didn't. he had a big smile on his face as well. we know that the russian media and russian officials have been gloating since the trumpeting phone call of february 12th. and that's, i think, prove that we're heading in the wrong direction. you mentioned the french president's visit to washington, and this was of course, all happening as a manual my call was speaking with or was in washington for troops with president trump. i wanted to to place something that happened in the oval office and then i'll get your reaction off to it's okay. you're a is loading the money to you, couldn't they get their money back? no, in fact, to be frank. we paid, we paid 60 percent of the full and it was like for us loans guarantee grounds

and we, we provided the pay on money to be see if we have to buy them. so to be the closing assets lucian assets. but since these notes, because this is not all be home, so they are frozen. if at the end of the day, the biggest issue is the shop, they're ready to give it to us super. if we do not have handles at the end of this, i would say trump being corrected my by my quote there and he did seem to take, you know, getting his own grabs and being corrected pretty well. do you think that was my chrome working? his magical was trump just being polite in that moment? you know, i think there's mark on demonstrated leadership initiatives and trump accepted as put as you know. uh, president trump was also corrected by a conservative newspapers that have supported him in the past,

like the wall street journal on the new york post. and he was corrected as well by those republican lawmakers from both the senate in the house of, for some of the statements he's made over the past 2 weeks. so there's been a lot of oh, good not good news, but good information of displacement put out in the public space at the present truck misspoke. steve has a positive developments you mentioned earlier as well that the british prime minister kissed alma will be heading to washington later this week. what, what advice would you give him to pass to his meeting with donald trump? well, i think that the initiative that he and ma, cruel and have demonstrated basically over the past about up 10 days or 3rd to 12 days on putting european forces into ukraine is excellent. it actually meets a suggestion, the trump himself put out there as a deterrence on future russian aggression. so this is all a plus, and i think the storm are like my chrome should make the case for why this is

critical, not just for europe, but for the united states. because stopping rushes aggression to get us to crate, making short boots and cannot go further into ukraine, which is in fact his goal is critical, not just for our european dollars, but for the united states. and of course absolutely essential. x a central for ukraine, just on the was saying and versus parliament today that the u. k. is going to be increasing its defense spending to 2.5 percent. now that's of course not nearly as much as donald trump wants to see. do you think the us president is going to give them a hard time about that when they meet? i think the president will encourage them to do more. i think he may also take credit for the 2.5 percent, which is not are fair for him to do. and if shoremeyer is shrewd, maybe he's talking about 2.5 percent or willing to raise a to 3 after he leaves washington. me. mr. i'm about so you are in cave and it's

the 3rd anniversary of rushes full scale invasion of ukraine this week. what have you been hearing from, from people that will solve a feeling at this at this moment in time? no good. people are very concerned regarding the regular criticism, the trump is directed at zaleski and ukraine and the soft words that he's been sending towards pollutant of but know they've been through hell. and this is not as bad as the worst days at the beginning of the big invasion, and then resilient. and so, without giving up anything of anything essential. they've taken a strong position in the negotiations with president trump over the critical minerals. and they are, we're reaching out, i think, with some impact to their european friends, to,

to get additional support from there. and they're freaking away to come to grips with this. um, peculiar turn in american diplomacy. mm hm. so given what you've just told us, when do you see this will ending on what times? well, if president trump is planning on advancing ukraine, then he could stop the tomorrow. the aid is already in the pipeline. and that would put great pressure on the ukrainian troops, but i don't think trump will do that. i think trump, literally, since april of last year has made clear that it's an interest of the united states that ukraine survive. he spends his team spent several months after the election laying out of all the elements of a peace proposal that could achieve an end to moscow house aggression. not a perfect good because would require you trained to compromise on territory and on

legal membership. but it would involve a serious to turn to future russian aggression in the form of those european troops and the form of massive us and european arms supplies to ukraine. of the statements he, president trump has made since the phone call was put in of february 12th as cold that into doubt. but even in this period, trump has said, for example, we have to continue aging ukraine. otherwise would go further and that would not be . we cannot allow this ad i think of trump or to actually let, put in have is way. then there will be no negotiated peace for many months because preaching was to take more ukrainian territory put in was to drive you crazy and forces of the course oldest of russia before he sits down to negotiate. and i can tell you, and there's no way putting to could do that. you and if the american arms were stopped tomorrow, up and 3 or 4 months, the ukrainians,

and we'll get in course. so we're going to put a subjective is a real deal that's established as a durable piece and that most 6 months are now 5 months has he's been an officer over a month. he doesn't have to have with the russians to negotiate in good faith. cuz right now they're not negotiating at all. and um, apparently they're lying to trump by trump said yesterday to and told him he's happy with european peacekeepers going to crane and state school tutors press secretary tonight that we're going to have to leave it the but i'd like to thank you so much for joining us on the program, john e hubs, former us ambassador to ukraine, and as was beck has done many things. my pleasure. thank you. donald trump has ended the transatlantic alliance since taking office recessing ties with moscow and costing down on america's commitment to european security. the

man who will likely become germany is next trump, let's leave it like mounts of the conservative christian democrats as public 3 questions. the future of nato was donald trump in the white house mats message, the united states is largely indifferent to the face of europe and suggested it should consider an independent defense capability. on monday he developed that thoughts a little further mounts, told the gem and a broad cost as he, if we need to have discussions with both the british and the french. the 2 european nuclear power is about whether the nuclear sharing or at least nuclear secure receipt from the u. k. and fronts could also apply to us. i want to talk more about that. i'm joined here in the studio by usually back. cool. so she's a senior policy fellow at the european leadership network. that's a think tank focusing on defense and security issues. welcome you. thank you so

much for joining us here. could you give us more details about what exactly flesh mounts was talking about? uh yeah, so 1st of all the context in which he made these remarks as quite interesting. so he made the statement just one day ahead of the election, which i seeing was a bit of a tactical move. um, it shouldn't necessarily drop something serious as that in the morning. so, but yet he did so. so he spoke about a nuclear sharing and what you meant by that is a bit unclear. so i think his remarks had a bit were a bit lacking substance because in effect we're already in a situation where we are involved in nuclear sharing in the nature context of course. but he criticize nature, what we owe. we also benefit from yuki of protection from the french and the printer side. already the french are quite explicit about that. the british are as

well. so it's a bit unclear what he's talking about in that context. the nice thing again, it was a bit of a tactical statement and now is out in the world. so we have to deal with these notions and trying to figure out what exactly i mean is he potentially talking about, i don't know, paying rent, you know, giving a several $1000000000.00 whatever. and to then say, if we do have a problem, you know, fronts and breast and please step up. i mean, is that something that, you know, just does that make sense to? well, the interesting thing is, um, for example the, the parts are quite explicit in terms of extending done. you get protection to add allies. so for example, in this project documents they already say we would consider using nuclear weapons only in very extreme circumstances to including to the defends of our allies. the french in their strategic documents always emphasized that the fullest of also has your opinions. i mentioned at the same time both the french and the british austin

of a quite small so it's quite on thinkable but that for example, germany or either your pin countries could just revenge. i don't know, 2 out of 4 for the subjects of marines, one out of 4 french submarines or ms files. so they're not really made to kind of provide other european partners. i mean, the arsenals are not there to provide other european partners with capabilities. so that's a problem. mounts says that the french had repeatedly suggested the idea of extending the nuclear protection to germany and in, in past years. why all the french keen to do that, why they suggesting that? if, as you say, you know, then you could also is not big and also how long would it take to actually make something like that a reality? well, so the interesting thing is, the terms is not something that you can easily measure in figures. i mean, when you look at what, for example, french express,

right about that determines thinking which is obviously quite different from our thinking. they always emphasize it's about credibility. it's about showing the intent that you're ready to use it to use nuclear weapons. and that translates into the perception of your adversary's. so that means the size of your nuclear arsenal doesn't tell you exactly what it is credible or not. so that's just an ocean to begin with. this mass us right, that the french have over the last couple of decades, always offered some sort of strategic dialogue about whether or not the a forced. if i could have a potential european di, mentioned in my car was very explicit in 2021. he said to 1st of all, does have a european dimensions, but it never got to a point where they really offered some sort of nuclear sharing or i don't know, deploying well one that was a false high to judge to germany. so they've been very vog as well. let's talk about the british, but obviously not in the european union anymore. they've always enjoyed place the

ties to the us. um, what do you think best thoughts will be on this idea of building an alternative nuclear deterrent together with the europeans? well, i don't think that for example, a u. k e, you nuclear deterrent is something feasible because the you, itself is not going to be. and you can't, i alliance just for the fact that you have so many different opinions. there are some countries in the you that have signed a, a tricky on the provision of nick it weapons. so for political reasons, it's not feasible. and so at the same time, as i said, the, the u. k already sees it's nuclear deterrence, as serving as some kind of european protection as well. so i wouldn't see any eagerness from the british side to involve to be involved in such a dialogue. and they've never showed any and even readiness to talk about these issues. so i think it's a bit different from,

from friends. he talks about the people's perceptions, how people would feel about it. but obviously, because of germany's pause, it needs to tread very carefully when it comes to all things military. i mean, how will this discussion, this idea of nuclear sharing, potentially it's either nuclear weapons. how would this go down with the, with the german public service, trusting how the german public has kind of shifted its opinion. i think 2022 was really about what a shed moment. so before people were much more critical about the russian, i'll be hind. okay. to terrans writ large, i think provide now since 2020 to 2023. people are more convinced that you can do terms is actually something that serves their interest. but at the same time, i mean look at opinion polls, for example, carpet shift own has done one very interesting quote. opinion poll in 2023, and about 90 percent of the people were against germany having its own nuclear weapons. so i think i'm developing

a s n as an independent germany and utility turned it completely off the table. i think it was best and they pulled up so we don't even have to talk about whether it has been necessary infrastructure. the money that is not something that you can see is that like, facing, are a no, absolutely not. and as you, as you just raise the question of, of defend spending, i'm in germany already had difficulties reaching the 2 percent go. and now we're talking about a notice on the, from the so i think the cisco a, the, that would be a very, very painful and like cd bates. and also from from, you know, the outside looking in, i mean, we've just talked about germany's pause problems in britain. obviously went to war with germany in the 20th century. i mean, is germany seen by its neighbors as a country that can be trusted with this a nuclear infrastructure so, or is that something that is comfortable to talk about? that's an interesting question. i think your pin partners do trust germany to

a big extent. maybe i was self styled, was sometimes bigger than the trusted others had in us. but i think, uh no one in europe would really think that this, this makes sense. and i, i should also add one point which i find interesting, especially the politics phase. for example, a so long mobile, i mean they're facing the russians read like on a day by day basis. when we look at this tony, i especially and they have the friends debate. i mean they're not talking about getting their own nuclear arsenal. they're more concerned about the conventional spread. so i think we in germany, it should more look at conventional the towns which is also part of the turns and strikes from that lack which is more realistic and, and just the last question. i mean, how do you think people in germany or feeling right now we've just had the selection, the shifting transatlantic situation. and the fact that we're talking about and youth visits, parents, nuclear weapons. what's the sense in germany right now? well, i figured adds people are really anxious, and i can understand that i,

when i wake up in the morning, i reason here is i'm quite anxious as well. there's a lot of uncertainty, but i would really reframe from drawing conclusions too early and just getting rid of ne, 2 and the trans atlantic phones because of the things that we've seen in the last couple of days. you'll have that cool. so with european leadership net look you. yeah, thank you so much for your time. we appreciate that. and that is the shows for you today. you can sort of watch same on social media, the humble you need, that is at dw news. and don't forget all websites that is the w to come from the entire team here on the day. thanks for watching. thanks for spending part of your day with us. the

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