must donate blood for the wounded and aggressors. well, other various measures are being taken, and maybe some information will come to you. this war is a big war that putin started. how do the russians behave even in the occupied territories and with our citizens, let there be someone in them, maybe her passports received russian ones, it doesn’t matter if they are our citizens. and whether it has changed the attitude towards russia or not. i am sure and there is a lot of evidence that the attitude has changed, first of all, even those who were, uh, so we pay, are disposed towards the russian the federations were supporters of the russian federation or the fake dpr, of course somewhere they expected that the territory of the rest of the donetsk and luhansk regions would be liberated, as they believed, but when the mass

mobilization began, the conscription age was 65 years old and literally everyone from the streets of their homes they were taken away by the military commissariats for conscription and let into the first ranks those who were not fired upon and not trained for offensive actions and most of whom will never return, then this attitude is changing and now even with support the enemy understands that on it is not that he is not happy with the daughters of the republic, but also the armed forces and the society and of course the government will all put up such resistance that they have no choice but to use such a gametic practice, without having the opportunity to take the cities, they are taking them as an

example of this tragedy of mariupol, not having the opportunity to take eh in the course of the city, they continue the devastating blows of aviation and heavy artillery, therefore the attitude and eh of people who were even more or less loyal to the russian federation, it has changed radically, and even realizing that such cities are the enemy they say they have already captured mariupol, the whole situation is under control in the city, i emphasize once again that it is not the city of mariupol, but the territory of mariupol, where there was a modern european city behind the flag of the donetsk region, where the golden sun rises over the black sea , over the black sea, the whole sea and branches, and the sea of ​​azov is

above this one the sun will surely rise in blackness, take care of yourself, you are real heroes, the whole of ukraine and the east rests on your shoulders, what enemy will not surrender to the enemy, thank you very much pavlo kyrylenko, the head of the donetsk regional military administration, was with we are in touch about the difficult situation now in donetsk region, a very difficult situation in mariupol well, but we see that the enemy is doing everything so that even he who once wanted the russian world would hate it with all his soul . it's just starting now let's watch together danylo lubkivskyi i greet you from kyiv kyiv security forum continues special online discussions the fight for ukraine today is the 65th day of the war which is the genocide of russia against ukraine ukraine remains strong, fights and heroically restrains the russian aggressor. yesterday, the

secretary general of the united nations visited ukraine for the first time after the invasion of russia, and it is quite symbolic that during his visit, when he was physically in the city, several russian missiles hit our capital quite close to where he was and he said that i was shocked, these rockets killed innocent people, including the famous ukrainian journalist virugyrich, and many were injured , these rockets were a clear message from mr. putin he will not stop if ukraine and the international community do not crush his regime and do not defeat him yesterday the president of the united states biden sent a request to congress for another 33 billion dollars to provide ukraine with additional weapons and long-term economic assistance this proposal, which has already received broad bipartisan

support in the united states includes military, security, economic and humanitarian aid to carts the house of representatives of the united states passed a law creating a lend-lease agreement which is designed to prevent the transfer of military equipment to ukraine, similar to what the usa did during the second world war. well, today we will discuss these issues. two main issues will be discussed today: how to weaken the aggressive aggressive potential of russia and to such an extent that it cannot to invade or threaten neighboring countries, as defense minister austin said before the recent important meeting of defense ministers of 40 countries at the rammstein military base in germany, and the second question is how to strengthen protect and rebuild ukraine immediately begin

a strategic plan for the recovery of this country i am extremely pleased to introduce you to today's panelists first of all i want to congratulate mr. ambassador michael mike fola our good friend the former us ambassador to the russian federation and today the director of the freeman institute from the field of international studies from the tender university, thank you very much for being with us today, mr. ambassador, mrs. nataliya redko, former minister of finance of ukraine and former director, i am happy financially administration of puerto rico thank you very much ms. natalya for your presence mr. andriy kobolev former chairman of the board of naftogaz of ukraine thank you very much mr. andrii and arseniy yatsenyuk former prime minister of ukraine and head of kyiv security in the forum i want to start by addressing mr.

ambassador mcflu state secretary anthony blin said that from the point of view of military goals, russia has already failed and ukraine has already succeeded, today you wrote on facebook that you think putin has already lost how do you assess the current situation and is putin capable to admit that he lost, first of all, thank you very much for inviting me, i would really like to be in kyiv sometime and uh, you can call me just mike , don't tell me your racing, with high regard to the ambassador in my country"

who is associated with this aggression, if you look at the time two months ago, if you look at what putin said, what he wanted to achieve, he did not achieve any of this, so i do not know what will happen on the battlefield of this war, the struggle is still taking place in donbas, but i think that it is obvious that that putin already lost the war that he himself started on february 24th, let's remember what he said, what goals he became when i was in ward. he does not consider

ukraine to be a state, for him you are simply russians with a ukrainian accent, and he aims to return ukraine to the russian empire. he has already failed for the second time. he has a strange phrase saying that he wants to nazify ukraine. ukraine from the overthrow of your government and wanted to put someone uh from the puppets, you can even guess who he could have put here and it also failed. third, he wanted to destroy the

ukrainian army, this also failed. the capital, and the struggle for kyiv was lost when i speak, kyiv is pronounced like a russian . i'm sorry, but i know what you are, because i also have a place to privatize my thinking and pronounce it as ukrainian. this is a wonderful book, and everyone should who studies ukraine have read the author serhiy epokhii so it all failed, what did he want to do today? i watch russian television, you don't need to, and i listen to what he says and listen to their propaganda and see that they have changed their goals in their declarations, especially if they watch they are talking about a military operation and the defense of donbas. and this is already different. it is completely different from what he started two

months ago, what is happening in the battle for donbas, and experts can say better there, but i think that in general, his goals failed catastrophically, here you can give her or what he wanted to do, but he did not succeed, let's say about nato, he worked with trump in order to destroy nato, but this project of his failed and now we have the opposite and we will only welcome new ones members of the alliance, putin completely canceled the achievements made by his government, governments in the economic sphere completely leveled everything, i spoke with russian acquaintances and i do not see a single person in russia who could benefit from this, neither the security forces nor putin

neither kdbshniks nor oligarchs and middle-class people and locals from big cities, nor grandmothers from siberia who watch tv. i think that then he does what is good, they all lost and in the end i can also say that it is also very important continued for 15 years we m we have a certain recession of democracy, and so is my country, according to the data of fried, chaos, and when it comes to the goal of putin's big goals, we are not talking about maria yet, and the balance of power is now being built against realism, and it was

built against democracy and with the rise of china with the rise of populist movements in such countries as italy, great britain, in my country, the united states, and now it feels like these broad world trends will be able to return in the opposite direction, and this is only thanks to your courageous citizens in your country, this is what we all get a certain gain from these events. thank you very much. putin lost the gas in ukraine . nevertheless, it remains very dangerous not only for ukraine, for the international community and the international order, and it is necessary do everything possible to stop him, that is why

it is necessary to apply sanctions against them and weaken his sanctions regime. how do you assess the international sanctions against putin? is the sanctions system effective? what else can be done to make him answer for his actions and to stop him? i can to say a few things, if you go back to the beginning of this year and you know i am a former government official and you know that i have many friends in the biden administration, i communicate with them in the same way as with the president and communicated even before how the war started and when i look at their efforts, i can say that they worked well to protect nato, it was a bit slow with the provision of weapons - this is also recognized with the visit of mr.

austin and mr. in ukraine, the situation a lot has changed. and we are already talking about a new package of 30 billion dollars and uh, this is fantastic help. in addition, we are talking about new weapons. previously, we were talking about soviet-made weapons. now we are talking about howitzers, uh, artillery with uh, long range . actions and i am very grateful to them. for this i am i actually applaud them for this. and as for the sanctions, i am also grateful to the biden administration. these are the most comprehensive sanctions against russia that there have been, but they are not enough, and that is why the ukrainians, americans and europeans are working to overcome them , especially with regard to the

oil sanctions here you can do much more and i will write a website center in the chat where people say that more can be done and we understand that against and very strict stations were applied early and this can be done and in relation to russia, more must be applied of individual sanctions, personal sanctions, and now there is a massive list of six thousand people against whom sanctions should be strengthened or introduced, and as you say, danylo, these are the people who hold certain positions in political parties in the government and they contributed to the war, it was their choice because they er remained in the government, and this is an innovative approach, and it seems to me that this should be done much more, in particular, that we recommend that russia should be recognized as a state sponsor of terrorism, and in the

united states there are currently four on such a list countries it is north korea it is iran syria and cuba and it seems to me and our committee agrees with me our working group also agrees if there is cuba then there must be russia and by the way i recently spoke with pickel er ms. helousi last week and she says that there is a lot of support for this initiative in congress and i am sure that more can be done in the sense of sanctions. thank you very much, mike, and what you say is reassuring and i hope that you will achieve this goal . but it seems to me that some further steps should be taken to increase the pressure on russia in particular from the side china and india, from your point of view, what arguments can be found to convince china and india to join the international international efforts

aimed at the seeds of the aggressor oh, this is a difficult question and i do not have a ready answer here. i would say that i am not surprised by the position of china either because they are on side of russia in competition with the united states and i have also been on the sanctions list since the 14th every year in russia and i come to you, i have not been to russia since the 14th and not that i really want to go there frankly for president putin and so i was not surprised by the position taken by the president or a, but she disappointed me. at present, we have a moment of truth, choosing between democracy and between good and evil, and you cannot stand somewhere in the middle , you have to take a clear position. i will understand their position, but i do not respect it. i think that we should

continue to encourage the democratically elected leaders of india to take our side because they are a democracy. and one more thing that can be done, and we did it, and in relation to iran, let's say it is to introduce the threat of secondary sanctions, they they work, let's say that secondary sanctions can be applied to china and india and other countries of the world, and then they will not help russia to circumvent the primary sanctions, and it is possible that a complete ban on some activity may be impossible, but when it comes to tariffs on the export of russian oil, this can be seen and also what we did with regard to iran can be done with regard to russia, that is, create

such a defunct account and these countries that buy gas and oil from russia do not pay directly to russia, but these funds go to the defunded account, and after the change of power, this money can go to the russian people, and it is necessary to tell russia and putin that this is not a punishment for the invasion of your country, it seems to me that this is such a unique way that it is worth pondering and considering, and in the end, maybe we will be able to achieve a reduction supplies of energy carriers to e-e europe. i remember that it was also in 2008 and 2009 when i worked in the government and we developed five documents regarding our policy regarding russia and our main goal was to reduce their exports

of oil and gas in order to reduce their access to the resource and i am now of course disappointed that not enough attention was paid to this document and thus my country and brussels and the countries of europe did not pay enough serious attention to it and remain so dependent on russia, we need change this categorically in order to get your own independence from russia and the last question for you maiku account how do you see the prospects of russia, considering everything they have done, i am a political scientist at stanford and i say that we are not very good we predict the future of the revolution, democratic changes , how uh, i once wrote that when we thought that revolutions were impossible, they happen, and then we

think about what to do with them, and i can tell you that this movement is also not very good at making predictions about the green revolution, the revolution in iran and regarding the arab spring, regarding what happened after that in russia, your revolution was not predicted for 13-14 years, so uh, when it comes to the revolution of dignity , and i don’t know how to answer your question correctly, but something is clear to me, i imagine that it is the beginning of the end of budinism in russia has been in power for 22 years and there is no country in the world where the leadership is so old , they are in power for so long, they are doomed because they don't listen to their finance ministers, they don't

listen to their advisers, they don't listen to the prime ministers, they are like putin, he doesn't listen to laurels or mishusin no one, and this is one of the problems, and that is why he thought that he was doing everything right to the chechens . his first war was where he suffered defeat. there were two chechen wars. there was a georgian war in 2008. there was a war in your country in the 14th year. it's not a new war, it's just a continuation, then there was syria, and he always makes very significant and the same mistakes as in the 70s of the last century, when marxism spread all over the world. afghanistan, then we will support him, and this was the beginning of the end of the soviet

union. it seems to me the same with putin. he was wrong in all his calculations, especially regarding your country. i listen to what russian speakers say about ukraine, and i hear. they calculated, they didn't understand how ready you are to resist and how powerful your army is and of course when i listened and how i don't believe them and now they say that 80% support putin don't believe this sociological survey because in the country of the gulag no one tells you the truth when they are approached with such polls, no one rules them and remember that political changes do not take place in such regions, in such countries, they take place in the capitals, i have been to russia for a while, i talk a lot with my countries, but i am sure that i am sure that this

the war is catastrophic for putin's government and for putin himself. of course, i cannot say when putin himself will fall because the regime is too autocratic, but what will happen after putin will be even worse because someone likes putin and may become putin two zero after him and it will be even worse but i think the first scenario is scary but i hope it won't happen i don't know how it will fall but we are seeing now the beginning of the end of putinism because he made a huge mistake not calculating this invasion of your ukraine but i i hope that there will be a more open and transparent regime in russia after him. thank you, ambassador mccall, for your

comments. now i would like to pass the floor to andrii kobolev . it is possible to achieve a full energy embargo against russia. thank you, danylo, i would like to make a few comments about what mr. makf said, and uh, i have extensive experience in negotiations with the russians regarding their energy resources, and i am sure that one of the hypotheses that used by putin and his government is the fact that energy is so important because it cannot be replaced. neither cars nor gas can be replaced in europe. that's why when we talk about the west, i mean the countries oh wed and he they think that they will

always say goodbye to them, they will love to hug her, and that is why he thought that he had the right to, and everything was allowed by the side, precisely so that he did not choose a measure in the sense of sanctions against the russian energy industry, it is extremely important to undermine this belief of his, that is, and until it can't be eh convince of this or undermine this belief, then he will never back down, i will not talk about the military aspect here, but this is his mentality when we consider what kind of sanctions sanctions how to apply, we should remember this and it is very important from the practical point of view of the approach to sanctions, it is important for the west to also show that it is serious about this

and that it is ready to put the bottom line on the economic existence of russia when they take irreversible, not reversible steps, which i mean, that is ugh, the sanctions are similar to those that was applied to iraq, which was mentioned. and i also think that certain types of energy will be difficult to change energy carriers in particular . putin and his entourage if these sanctions reach the model of a complete tear of invaga, that is , we can start with the tactics of cutting off the peasants, we start with the simpler ones from the smaller ones and start cutting off

his other advantages, let's look at the simplest kind energy carriers liquefied gas eh he sells a little half go to europe half yes asia when i talk about asia i mean japan south korea and the secret of this whole basket and there is no absolute economic risk or damage if the countries of the ussr said now friends we never as long as you are in power, we will not buy your liquefied gas. and besides, we tell you that we will never show you your petroleum products, and we will not buy your marine oil grid supply elements. it is easier to take into account that

this will mean for russia, first of all, they, er, the eu says that they will switch to china and india, but do you think that the chinese will buy these energy carriers for such a reason, and i never, of course, hearsay, but so far it has not been confirmed that er, china buys iranian oil somewhere on er falls at the er level of er dollars and this means with huge discounts and in addition it is possible to achieve psychological influence er and er russia export to china because we are all former socialist countries but if russia became dependent on china then it will be an extraordinary psycho