well, in principle, but look now, it’s kyiv region, but they imitated it. i had an explosion early today. every day, explosions are serious every day, and our sappers are working. well, i don’t know. well, of course, we should all pray for our soldiers, but for our sappers. because they after our soldiers, we will probably have to clear these forests for another 10 years, well, this is some kind of strange and difficult story, and when we are now appealing to international volunteers, because ukrainian volunteers, i am currently cooperating with such a group, well, these are my friends , neighbors, here they are in two days, three days when er, well, ours

the territory was liberated, they came, they came, they brought generators, they brought medicine, they brought everything, i will be with them in lviv on thursday, this is the captains of i.ua, this group was called hell-bucha, well, in bucha, they were one of the first to appear. well, you see that bucha on the first , on the second of april, well, it’s just tears in the eyes, and now you drive along this bucha and these amazing ukrainians of ours, this amazing people of ours, in our village of blystavytsia, all the gardens have already been planted, everything has already been swept, all the facades have been brought to of some kind of mind, that is, you stand and do you think people will come at some point when we will need

to, well, they will all put forward the aggressor, what a big account, dear. well, like, dear ukrainians, we will put forward the account to the aggressor, some commission will come, look and say, dear ukrainians, are you sure that you had an aggressor, because you are what everyone has facades all the windows were washed, all the windows were glazed, all the gardens were built , all the gardens were planted, well, the only thing that the plane dreamed of is here, i leave, i look and it stands so charred, well, all that remained was the plane, i dreamed of completing it at my own expense, and then the representatives aggressor, come, i'll say yes. we're already here. we haven't done anything bad. everything has already been rebuilt. everything has been completely repaired. okay, the only thing i promise is that

our viewers are asking you, how did you manage to stay alive. why didn't the occupiers do anything to you? well, yes. it's just that kind of question, the question is fair, the answer is simple, the lottery doesn't have any methods for salvation, i.e. look, so that you understand, we'll say this a little bit like this: there was oleksandr rzhavskyi, who seemed to love the russian world very much, somehow he remained thinking that everything would be fine he was going to negotiate with them there, and they took him and shot him, i don’t know, they say they didn’t share something with the wine there, he wanted to hide some very expensive bottle and they shot him for it, well, the man had a press booth near the mariinsky palace, he was running for president pro-russian platforms and there is no e-e prize yes, his press center under

the verkhovna rada, he was so very popular and we are there as journalists all the time and with political technologists we were in contact there all the time and it is very unfortunate i was even involved in the election in his hometown e -is krasnyi luch well, it's not surprising, but uh, well, among the dead, uh, those are the people i knew who are connected with our uh, village, this is a friend of my neighbor ivanov, well, uh, with one thank god he will survive his neighbor is what? well, we contacted him, he was just shot, and we are looking for where he is, where he is, where is his grave, where is he, well, it is so sad, but on the

other hand, you know when you ask how he survived, i don't know, it's god's providence there are no recipes for survival here. well, who didn't tell you? i know, for example, a certain set of rules. it worked well, this experience of the soviet army, when you know how to predict behavior, because the russian army is soviet, it is still soviet. and when you served in the soviet army, you know exactly how to deal with them emotionally. that is, i openly trolled them . is a guy who says uncle uncle uncle give me shoes well, you understand that yes, after the phrase give me shoes, you can spin this topic, so to speak, but this is an emotional game that does not have exactly any

guarantees of survival at any moment they can andriy and i will turn to aggression, and i will say something like this , er, one of the oldest of our survival was that those people who constantly appear under our houses from eight to 14, you have to talk to them, but they come every time those who well who was really piled up in buch or in irpen, that is, well, look how you are, we are among those who, today, are the so-called combat khranenie, that is, the combat guard that comes with a water pump, well, from some other, uh, these are people on the loose. ukrainian artillery simply destroyed them scary, and these shells flew over our heads and their grads

our heads were flying. at 11 o'clock, you know exactly what the russians will shoot in the direction of ukrainian positions , and on the first night, the ukrainians will definitely cover the camps where they spend the night. there are no guarantees that it will fly over your head, but the worst thing is that it is not even this art ball, it is not predicted what it is when the so-called combat security arrives, well, these guys with machine guns are russians, who, well, three -quarters of them have already died in sight and you are walking down the street specially, well, you can’t sit in the house if you are sitting in the house and pull back the curtain and they walk down the street and

you don't go to talk to them, you're guaranteed to get a bullet through the glass, that's why you have to go and talk to them when they see that you're not a threat, so you can continue to promote this topic and talk like that, yes, and i have 10 liters of fuel , for example, or well something like that, they need to be drawn into the dialogue somehow, well, i don't know, i'm telling you this because the first question i face, give me some advice on how to survive, there are no systematic tips, but the main advice is to try to communicate, try because no all they are beasts, they are beasts because they are helpless

in front of their leadership and they know for sure that the ukrainian armed forces are more powerful than them. that's all, and it all starts with the fact of personal survival , or well, he will agree with the ukrainians, well with the civilians, that he will not have enough on his back or mr. volodymyr, what can i say, thank you for sharing these thoughts and these stories, which are very personal and i think difficult, we are very happy that you are with us, i want to say that a lot of people are now writing to wish you to live to be 100 years old, and maybe even more, and i have already started writing poems. i am already sending them out, so everything is fine, i am even in the occupation. i wrote a poem, which is inconvenient, well, the title of which is called unhappy with weapons, he is unhappy without weapons, because you look at, well, look

at this occupier with a cold mind, you know ukrainians they always said that they even call the enemy a witch, the first observation. well, i remember in soviet times, when there was a terrible pressure on ukrainian everything, and in my opinion, a human bank wrote an essay about something like that, and he wrote that ukrainians in they call their enemies razezhen, but in soviet times, he said that this is the anthem of ukraine in the glory of ukraine, the phrase will cast our fortunes, i am a beauty, and this dew on the sun is ours. well, it is good

that if i kill, we still remain loving and humane beings. volodymyr tsibulko was with us thank you very much and god i am already thinking next time we will be able to write some poems about forming and also talk a little more about the current political situations and now we are moving on and and our next guest is anton shranovich chairman of the ukrainian institute of national remembrance, mr. anton good evening good evening studio ah well, i'll start right away with the fact that on may 9, no one will come to vladimir putin's house, nevertheless, he is preparing a military parade there and yes further and the like, we know that this is a very important date for him and it is also possible that it is connected with now desperate attempts to achieve certain successes on the battlefield in donbas by russian troops, and at least that we are literally talking to people who are now there, for example shepherds and others

in the regions there, they say that they literally come in waves and suffer very large losses because of this, but these losses are not counted. it fell on may 1. and so on. it’s not that it’s an unimportant day, it’s probably a day of solidarity of working people and i don’t see anything wrong with this day, but on the other hand, yes, yes, somehow, well , just like there, march 8, somehow, even the father of the general common this our eternal the discussion is necessary or not necessary to give gifts, not to give flowers, somehow it passes. as if everything was done by the war, but may 9 is still important, because at least it is very important for our main enemy. i know that even the already registered draft law seems appropriate where the deputies propose some officially cancel may 9 as a celebration of the victory over fascism day and celebrate it

finally or celebrate, say, may 8 as the end of world war ii, what do you think of in this regard, well, first of all, it is very good that our enemies are so fooled that they are trying , as in soviet times, to expose some military objects to them, this increases the number of casualties and poisons them even more, in general, this canon is a mark that is already russian uh, the intervals were called pobidomisiya, well actually this pobedobesse is already reaching some kind of final bloody limit, as for may 1, really, which march 8 and may 1 are these dates, they are connected with such a canon, uh, in human rights because these are the days of associated with rights to work from 8 to women's work to women's right to

work and actually the first of may - this is the upcoming labor day, they remembered it like this. it will be just an international day, which is dedicated to the right to work and decent working conditions and so on. it is actually in ukraine seriously in such a human rights article it is not noted because it was so ideological in soviet times and now we actually gave it up and now you wanted something i actually wanted a confirmation of the words that i have a lot of holidays that simply have a completely different the soviet ideological envelope, but it still exists and probably remains toxic, because of this, we don't have much time to talk, so i'll definitely say it right away, and i was very impressed by a recent discussion that took place on facebook, in which i don't know, the evil one tempted me to take part in this. it was the post of volodymyr klychko, o vitaliy. i apologize to klychko , the mayor, for finally dismantling this statue

under the arch of friendship of peoples, where one seems to symbolize some worker of ukraine, the other worker by the way, let me remind you that we have a monument in pereyaslav, like us in pereyaslav, where we have russia and ukraine. they are still hugging there. i don't know what is happening with that monument. well, but something else actually surprised me here. i am watching a lot about how today, well, that is, ok, we have a huge statue in the underground in kyiv. yes, on the mass field, so it is correctly called there, where it was called the museum of the great patriotic war and now it seems to have been renamed ah and there is this huge statue a huge metal statue is a mother family and accordingly what i am looking at now are different if the visions of what is happening are some such different semi-mythologies that she is standing there somehow

facing moscow, which means that this is our mother family from the other side we all have to understand that this family is the mother, the grandmothers there say that our mother's family in kyiv is beautiful. and here she is in volgograd , here she is ugly, even though she looks like me in volgograd . there there there this group is more sculptural, well, less so, i’m not talking about that now, i’m talking about how , for example, on the example of this family, let’s understand where we are moving next. this victory is looming thanks to the military and thanks to the fact that ukrainians all united against putin and russia, it turned out that independence itself is extremely important for ukrainians and this was shown by polls on the eve of the war 85% of all age groups from regardless of regions

supported the ideas of independence, but we all understand that only this victory will become a reality for us again. well, we will not avoid the question of what independence is for, and actually, on the example of this family, they have i don't know how to explain it. do people understand that this family is a mother ? after all, there was the ussr , it symbolizes the ussr, it symbolizes ukraine, it has herpes of the ussr on the shield, how should we treat this ukrainian ssr, it has existed in one form or another in ukraine for 30 years, and that is why all these battles with renaming more than 100 streets there are central streets in kyiv that have names that are related to russia, but what is your opinion , should ukraine conduct some kind of divlusification in itself? how do you see it, or should we find some kind of symbiosis between the ussr and there legacy of the ukrainian people's republic, well, ukraine clearly has to reduce the number of

symbolic space names and designations that are associated with the russian empire from empire 2.0 under the name of the soviet union, this is clearly because well, even if the mayors of cities in the south from the east of ukraine they say that 2/3 of all toponyms are not related to ukraine, well, this is not a normal story, it is obvious that this was done artificially in order to strengthen these symbolic links between the subjects of the soviet union, now as for eh in this war and this symbolic space and the soviet context, you know. for some reason, it is strange that only the war or some strong changes such as the revolution of dignity start this process of clearing the symbolic space. only war and revolution does that, and for me it is, for example, a disturbing story, on the one hand, we have achieved a

lot in 5 years of decommunization since the 15th year. worn out, we with the kyiv council, with whom yes, we have simply spoken at meetings an incredible number of times, because we are a hundred patonas for the next one, the incoming group from the left bank hangs to receive, i don't know anymore, i'm tired of talking about it already, i'm preparing them with my own funds we need to dismantle it, we just need a letter of permission from the local council. and now you mentioned about matvia's homeland, on the one hand, it is actually a unique building . we are not even in favor. one of such architectural wonders, on the one hand, you really say that it is annoying because it symbolizes the soviet, but on the other hand, it was already created by ukrainians on ukrainian lands from ukrainian steel, including engineers they worked on it look look we have a story with such another monument with the shchors monument we can say the same thing made of

ukrainian bronze all four sculptures were from ukraine and shorst himself was a ukrainian but in the end let's just change his cockade there to this is for three saturdays and onward, the property is a powerful structure , look, it will not come. well, first of all, shchors, despite the fact that it is really well built architecturally as an ensemble, but what do you stand for there, this is an insult to well, in general, in fact, it is an insult to the people of kyiv, because you personally had a comment about it, and for several weeks his wife was raging there, they were shooting kyivans , robbing them, well, this is simply not acceptable, changing his cockade will not do anything, instead , in general, it is a symbolic image, it has nothing to do with it, of course, it is established like soviet some kind of ideology, but if someone really finally completes the procedure of withdrawing this sickle from the account and transfers it to the museum, it can

be redefined without problems, considering that it's actually a unique sculpture, in my personal opinion, it shouldn't be, but the fact that there is a heart, the language is quite active, it's a shame. okay, well, i heard your opinion, the only thing possible. then i would ask, if you'll allow it. well, if you'll allow it. in such a case, for example, we now see that russia has a large-scale situation with the fact that even the very mentions of ukraine are being thrown out of history textbooks. this is not a very new thing. i recently flipped through the artistic calendar of the 75th year and was terribly surprised that in such rude calendars where some of the smallest nations were mentioned, there was no soviet union at all, but ukraine

simply does not exist and everything there is absolutely some without denationalized without even a mention that even he is from ukraine mykola bazhan is translated into russian, moreover, the passage is not about ukraine, but something about party and there also seems to be some episode about dovzhenko, where tampons are not even mentioned in kyiv itself, and when you understand that, in principle, this is not a new strategy. and 15% of the tests there say that they will be changed for that so that even ukraine is not mentioned as, in principle, an independent state, on the other hand, we well, it seems to me that it is obvious that the ukrainian educational program throughout history remains in a certain inertia and in certain coordinates of what we inherited from the soviet union or should be revolutionary, all the same, a revolutionary breakthrough when completely different people with completely different thinking with completely different

models and with completely different ideas about what ukraine is will simply remake these things because, well, they seem to me to be part of the national security and they are very important for the national identity, well, look, first of all, it is necessary to say about russia, they really use this method of conversations even with teachers in order to minimize the mention of ukraine, but this way they can not do anything with ukraine, it is like a light in a dark room. they try to cover it with their hands, they will somehow not do anything about it, and what they are doing and what they are burning books in ukraine is a huge symbol of the 18th century, they lost the war of soft power in order to convince their citizens they, this lie of theirs is breaking through to the world, this is the first thing that concerns our programs in crimea, in particular, in general , in 30 years, ukrainian programs and in general the content of education in ukraine. as for historical education, it has made incredible progress. well, in fact, we have already

changed the paradigm at least several times and approaches, i agreed that there is a certain inertia, still soviet, it also concerns the chronological division, it concerns certain typifications, then i agree but in principle, i think that there are 10 books in the evolutionary process such as the portal they make a hrytsyak a professor, you know, these are the thematic complexes, they will simply change the education of evolution well, then, i will try to give one last example, well, look, there is, for example, the city of vinnytsia , yes, and if you ask me, although i myself will not change, yes, but i have been there several times, but what is the main thing such a landmark and the cultural center of vinnytsia, it is probably the pirogov manor don't mention the fountains of roshen, it's understandable, er, the first one, ok, er, according to that, various events, cultural festivals, etc. are often held there. it's always crowded there

there are many tourists, for me the question is a certain challenge, how in principle to fit the pirogov manor into some ukrainian context, how do we work with it , because well here, well, if it is so broader, consider it, how do we fit the ukrainian context of ukrainian identity for 300 years of existence, for example, in the russian empire on the other hand, to what extent are we working out, for example, this context of existence in the habsburg empire, which actually carries some western influences for us and is perhaps interesting, more important than it should be, should be more it is presented very clearly, for example, in literature textbooks, where we do not have the city of paul tselianu, who was born in chernivtsi, but it is there, well, just there. well, the situation has not changed yet. even this year, we are studying 100 pages of pushkin, for example the children are at school there and almost every year i also hope that mr. scarlet and the company

will think about it here. well, but, we are talking now with a historian, but, with a historian of national memory, that's why, well, i'm interested in your opinion ot for example, the same pirogov estate, how do we have it? do we have it or do we just have to accept it because well, there is a fact that there is some imperial doctor who helped the imperial army with something , for this he was presented with an estate in ukraine. where did he go for the first time and i came and lived out my age there. and what do you see? it seems to me that here is the fact that we need to create and invest in the creation of museums dedicated to , for example, petlyura, for example, a museum dedicated to the regimental life of vinnytsia, and that is, its history in the ukrainian context. yes, it should be done in parallel. now, as far as pirogov is concerned, there is such a term. and about splicing, yes. that is, accepting it as its own. ukraine can try

out a lot of things from the russian empire and from, but look, he had on excuse me, but he was a muscovite to to moscow bones, he was not ukrainian in any way to me no no no no no i should ask if he was in a relationship, for example, when he was a pensioner of the kyiv military educational district from drahomanov, you didn’t say such a thing. it’s just incredibly dramatic history, participation in his life, the establishment of evening schools, and so on. that is, this is a completely unknown story to us, and the second thing that is important in this context is the pies and the crimean war. victory, they understand the price of this empire very well, this is one of the reasons why he stayed in ukraine and did not go there to russia and did not ask for beacons, if we told it, it was a great victory for us. please tell me, i understood your approach, i am faster

i am probably an opponent of such an approach, but i was interested to hear this opinion. well, for me, for example, it is very important that in fact this estate was not built, for example, by pie, this estate itself has a history of pirogov, and for me it is important that, in fact, almost everything that we have in ukraine from russia all had some prehistory that has been forgotten and to a certain extent requires rehabilitation. it seems to me the same, but it is suitable. i think it is important to combine it. just somehow discuss and talk about it just finally. yes, yes, i think that it is good. well, who wrote about it, it seems mykhailo vinnytskyi dreams that when the war ends , ukrainian scientists and intellectuals will still gather and argue and argue, but actually in those arguments you find a model because, well, no one except the ukrainian elite. and we have , thank god, for 30 years, all of them were

formed and this is a huge, well, huge value, no one but such an intellectual elite will help ukraine to understand why they are dependent because we are fighting for independence we are fighting like this and we must already die for independence, learn to live eh, this will also be the next task for her, but already the next one. thank you very much to anton shrochinuch eh for this interesting conversation, well, we will move on. we will move on. used to talk shotgun i'm sorry this happens to me because you see i don't even have a partner today i let go of the shore and therefore on we move on and on and on and on and on our beloved dmytro chekalkin and his program soundc and then on we continue conversation with our new guests until seven

o'clock in the evening, i had time to prepare a digest of these messages, which were promptly sent to the ministry of foreign affairs, as ukraine, the former breadbasket of the russian empire and the whole of europe, was transformed in the eyes of international observers into a basket case, that is, into a disabled person into a loser into a poor victim and that is why they invested money not in the most expensive hundred-meter yachts, as happened with ukrainian or russian oligarchs, or the world's most expensive apartments in london, but invested in the modernization of the enterprise and in high-quality, effective management i sincerely congratulate you, madam