he didn't have the mother of the soul, all the pears were on the sim card. well, around there, at the bank, he was offered to pay 1,000 uah. he only had 500, and the sim card was not given to him. the driver helped him restore something in the phone so that he could, well, communicate. mother and mother and get to zaporizhzhia and communicate with mariupol there, but in your opinion, how many people could be left in this city, and on the other hand, how problematic will real evacuation be now? that is, we understand that they are shelling and shooting now the level of atrocities on the part of the russians has increased tremendously. well, what can i say? i read the news. they say that there are about 100,000 left. i think there are more than 150 , maybe 180-200,000 because i see the video. my colleagues who live nearby in villages, they

come to mariupol. they film our school , show what happened to it, that's why i think there are enough people, maybe even under 200,000 uah. do you have any connection with the people of mariupol who stayed in the city in order to understand the situation there? i keep in touch connection with his colleagues u we have a group in vybery under the collective and almost all people respond. well, maybe someone has a connection. so who came to mariupol? well, i was more worried about our school, i wanted it to survive. the school is broken, half burned in the school, now some kind of headquarters is organized there, everywhere announcements they put up ads on the school saying that they will pay a pension of 7,800, well, people walk there like i don't know. my colleague wrote to me, people walk like autozombies. and this city looks like, well, i don't know

, the scenery for some horror movie, she says people. well, they lost themselves in general. they don't understand what will happen to them next. they asked the military there. and what will happen to them, because in 5 months it will be winter in the city. there is no heating, no water. well, nothing, not even light, he says, don't worry, we won't abandon you . we will not give up when there is a burnt city to rebuild it. it is almost impossible to do anything. one house was completely burned down, the other one was half burned down. i don’t know what can be done there. i don’t know what can be done there. people are making fun of me, and why was this done ? by there are three questions: what to do with the dead residents. and we actually wanted you to estimate the approximate number of victims among the civilian population of mariupol, because the numbers were called 20,000, more than 20,000, but more

than 20,000. we saw people lying dead on the street. we saw people who were killed by an explosive minute against the walls, uh, we buried people near the houses. elderly people burned in their apartments , neighbors also buried them near the houses, so that you understand , at that time in mariupol, in march, it was freezing to -12, that is, to bury deeply. it was impossible it was called burying a person behind our house. there was a coral restaurant near our house, and there was already behind the coral. well, our house is on the avenue, and after this avenue there is already such a forest strip , that is, the sea continues and that's why we buried people there not to mention the fact that many trees were cut down there because

there was nothing to cook on, and these trees were cut down in order to make a fire and cook at least some kind of hot food for themselves from such products, which were then more than 20 thousand people, i think that they were needed there. they were not dug up all of them did they find a motorcycle or are the interventionists now clearing the city of the bodies of the dead, information is coming that the russians brought in mobile crematoriums in order to hide the number of victims among the civilian population . that's it, well, we need to add up how many people died there 5-6-8 who collected it, in

any case, she was not lying on the streets not to mention the fact that today in the city it is more than 20° warm, this south and there are heaps of garbage there. i don't understand what 's there at all, well, the smell is kind of terrible to me. our teacher who went to school and said it was impossible to breathe there , uh, you know, uh, actually those who stayed in mariupol testify about what the occupiers are trying to nominally induce some kind of order, if you can call it that, they are already painting uh, um, there are some curbs, something like that. there is even information about several open hospitals and schools. tell me , can you imagine something in mariupol, as it is now, as you remember it yatala really worked there is even an administration there that administers something, well,

just what we see, i don't understand how it can be administered, it's nothing, it's ruins, no, i can't imagine, even though i watched a video where the director, i worked at this school for 35 years - she's a taporykova, er, she is now the director of the 53rd school must understand where this school is located. it is located almost at the exit from the city, how will children from the primorsky district get there, it takes two hours to walk there, and from the left bank, i don’t know how many 5 hours you have to walk, and the bridge there is broken, that is prove it is impossible for the children to go there, but the bridges are destroyed there, there is also a river between them, i would like to ask you about your assessment of the situation with the azovstal and the boys who are defending it, so khrystyna and i are not very familiar with the topography of mariupol, you know better. so, in your opinion, how can we help the boys or to what extent

they are in the dense ring of the enemy in the dense end of the enemy this is actually azastal eh this is a factory located on the seashore they have an exit either to the city or to the seafarer there is no way but there are very large storages in azovstal very deep in me the man worked for a long time guys are heroes guys are heroes - this is the only cell of ukraine that remained in mariupol how can they be taken out it is only necessary to negotiate with international organizations simply no one will release them they hate them and such heroes just like that simply no one will release i don't know what forces need to be mobilized to take them away people from there and take our boy soldiers from there ms. lyudmila, did you feel in danger on your way from mariupol to the entire occupied part of our country because you are a teacher of the ukrainian language all the time i felt in danger, as we

walked and left the city, there were even moments when i said to the husband let the husband let me be killed here so that i don't have to suffer anymore and then we sat on the bus for a long time we sat down since the evening we were afraid that we wouldn't be able to to leave, and we drove to zaporizhzhia for almost more than a day because we were terribly afraid of staying in berdyansk and not leaving. at each checkpoint, we were taken out, as it were, 16 at each one, they took uh boys, uh young people off the bus and forced us to undress, once we were forced to undress women up to the waist are up to 45 years old from 18 to 45 and it was quite cold outside, well, this is absolute horror. the driver warned us to bury all phones, not to look up, told to sit quietly . we were driving in the dark, he

said. i will not open the door, sit quietly, because god forbid they will start shooting and kill you here. and i am responsible for you. she was a very wonderful person. she also wanted to clarify the estimated price for going to zaporizhzhia, for example. well , the numbers there were called $500, $1,000. we are not we paid dollars, i'm being honest, we didn't have dollars , uh, we paid the volunteer only for gasoline, which took us from mangos to berdyansk, there are people who, well, at their own peril and risk, try to take them out and, accordingly, earn money, it's not a reproach to them, but 3.5 thousands from one person to be taken from berdyansk to

zaporizhzhia, i don't think it's a lot in berdyansk either, there's nothing good there, there's nothing better there either. i talked to the teachers at school. they say we don't know what will happen to us next, or whether the educational process will resume, who will help us ? pay salary uh, the shops are half empty or some are closed in the city, so there is no way to withdraw money from an atm , people are queuing up at the bank and there, uh, what kind of money is there in the city, that's where they are spinning , that is, uh, no one brings money, right? you understand , the city is occupied, that's why they, too, they are there, the only thing they said to us is that people have done so many things to us because they are very afraid of what will happen, the same as in mariupol, that is, that the city will be completely destroyed, you just if when i came out of the bomb shelter , my husband told me to come on maybe we'll look for it will we somehow be able to go with one of the drivers to make an agreement

, we were not on the street at all. on march 1, my son and i went to work to see him. he works in a hospital. we were walking in the city. there were only two police cars. there were no more cars at all. thank you, ma'am. lyudmilo, strength to you, strength to your family, and may god give god's grace to the defenders of mariupol and the residents of mariupol, so to speak. lyudmila boltinova, bilenka from mariupol, the deputy director of the mariupol school , the ukrainian language teacher, was live now of the espresso tv channel, well, it is very dense, in fact , you always hear such live stories, because one thing is, er, dry analysis, there are some expert assessments, in particular , information directly from the place, but when it is still using ukraine to characterize that situation, well, it appears already complete the feeling is not only schematic, yes, according to

various reports from our official and unofficial sources, but actually, this human dimension allows us to understand the situation much better in belarus , i am checking the readiness of the missile division, yes only this belarusian dictator calmed down , but no, the missile division began to be rolled to the destination area, a division from the 465th missile brigade, as the belarusian opposition media write, the purpose of the check is to assess the readiness and ability of the personnel to respond quickly. well, of course, they say that this does not pose any threat to the european communities, no for neighboring countries, in particular, i don't know if we have the next speaker on call, colleagues, yes, for now, we are teaching, and there is an eyewitness, yes, and we will talk

about business in this part of our live broadcast religious and about how religion can and should. it will probably help, er, contribute to the end of the war in our country, here antin will probably help me a little, because i am er, the extraordinary and authorized ambassador of ukraine in the vatican. glory to ukraine, christ is risen, dear lord andriy, it's quiet, we are working now live on the espresso tv channel. so, the last high-profile interview of the holy father pope francis with the courier delaser. how can you comment because several fragments from it put on ears in general the entire progressive and non-progressive public in ukraine and in general in the whole of europe, first of all, i congratulate you on the return of attention, it is obvious that statements of this level can

not pass by the attention of the ukrainian public , especially since the pope in this interview sees his mission precisely in the context of the solution the situation with me in ukraine, of course, not all moments are such that can be understood and accepted by the ukrainian community. and there are many reasons for this . the pope is a religious figure, or is the formation of the world and its consciousness taking place during that period when the vatican had very active relations with the moscow patriarchate, and this was considered perhaps the greatest achievement of the papacy in that period of history, and at its age it is quite difficult to give up this kind of intellectual,

spiritual, e-e line, which is connected precisely with a separate policy that is here in the activity of the apostolic capital even got its name this is a politician and which is aimed at building a whole system of relations with the russian church, and we understand to a certain extent with the russian state, that is why the pope talks about his desire to communicate with putin, that is why he i called patriarch kirill in march, that's why he regrets that he can't realize all this potential, but on the other hand, we also shouldn't fail to see a lot of those messages that, in the context of the ukrainian situation and the entire interview , can be sent to me. andriy, we will analyze those and i will be a bad policeman, so to speak, and you will be a good

diplomat and a wise one. so, the moment, so to speak , strained the political part of our ukrainian discourse. accordingly, there would be no war, as an external opinion, this is not his position, he quotes this opinion and, conditionally speaking, puts it in front of himself and in front of the general public. related to other components of this interview we must see , for example, the pope uses and why today no one comments on this, no one sees how he defines the head of the russian orthodox church whom he warns and actually tries to

concentrated to concentrate attention as an altar boy, an altar servant of putin, this is an extremely powerful message, in addition, he recalls his communication with the patriarch and kirill, which took place in march of this year, and ironically says that he did not want to perceive and hear the first 20 minutes of the forty-minute conversation when the patriarch from a piece of paper he quotes him as well, this is papa, maybe he read the arguments that were supposed to justify the war, these are extremely interesting, interesting moments and which, in fact, in such a clear and unambiguous form, for the first time, the pope articulates the second moment, very powerful, which the pope mentions about our sweet situation, which is also related to the concept of holding the stations of the cross on

april 15, on the eve of the catholic, conventionally speaking, latin holiday of easter, where according to the plans of the master of ceremonies and from this stations of the cross they had a ukrainian woman and a russian woman to lead the way, then he laughed very powerfully as the pope himself says the scandal and apparently this is the first time and the pope says what he says, the ukrainians forced to change the program and instead of reading reflections instead of presenting certain positions as was the case at all the other stations of the cross , here they were simply silent, in fact the pope admits that the position of ukraine, which for him was not entirely clear, which he admits, and that is why he called cardinal kraievsky, who was in ukraine at the time and at the parade of cardinal kraievsky

, was resolved to change the format is also a very interesting point, which i am convinced deserves the same careful attention in the development of those complex , ambiguous, contradictory and to some extent unacceptable moments for the ukrainian community which you are actually talking about mr. andriy. as i understand it , the attention of cardinal kraievsky is eh. so far, all that we receive in the near future in the sense of attention from the vatican, because eh, pope francis pays attention to what he sees as the necessary meetings with the president of the russian federation, vladimir putin. this can happen in moscow still does not seem to see the point of, for example, going to kyiv, of course. we as a country reacted very sharply to such a statement, but on the other hand, we must understand that

the pope is probably thinking when he says such things well, that is, is there any point now in talking to ukraine, which is absolutely obviously a victim of aggression? is it still important to communicate with the source of this aggression? well, i am trying to explain the situation to myself, so to speak. i understand this entire system of reasoning that you have just proposed. i want to point out and this is what all the main dignitaries of the apostolic capital say here every day. the vatican fully understands and shares and now it is on the side of ukraine every day we hear and there is no doubt about it on absolutely all information channels you can find and see the relevant statements of the pope and cardinal karolina and many others of the same cardinal, the national cardinal of june, bishop haloger and

other dignitaries, you can name them, which absolutely clearly and unequivocally define what we have in ukraine, this terrible barbaric church how exactly will he show the war? why is he even doing it with moscow? he wants to stop it from the other side, if we are realists, and here again we must surely understand that this certain scheme that is built here and which is oriented towards moscow. we must understand that it cannot be realized. moscow, despite all these 60 years of efforts to maintain very close relations with the apostolic capital, neither then was it ready to accept the roman pontiff nor now, gruntov will not do that, of course, well look, we understand that putin is moving in stalin's concept and stalin's key approach was a rhetorical question, how many

divisions does the pope have, we understand that now the specific decisions of the pope would be very the involvement of, for example, latin america in a large dialogue regarding the fate of russia would also depend specifically on the pope of rome. in general , the whole world of the religious world, yes, regarding the positioning in this conflict, but we understand that putin is not ready, so perhaps the vatican could really be used as a large negotiating platform, we understand that vatican diplomacy is much more than sermons from the excathedra - these are really very effective mechanisms, i cannot agree with you at one point, despite the fact that we you and i have a somewhat consensus understanding of the current situation, the vision and paradigm of russia's actions in relation to the

apostolic capital, it is not so much included in the concept of stalin, eh. but i am in the concept of a later period, relatively speaking, khrushchev's brezhnev time, when these relations thawed during the stalin period, the vatican was perceived as such although or perhaps the most vivid concentrated manifestation armed with which the then stalinist soviet union could not find a single point of contact already in the times of metropolitan nikodyma rotova this the khrushchev period and then the brezhnev period, the russian church, which was instrumentally used by the soviet state, initiated a new policy through the apostolic capital to achieve propagandistic and very pragmatic goals, despite the fact that there is no ideological similarity or

identity between the positions of the then soviet union and the russian church there was no apostolic capital. now, in fact, the situation is the same. everyone perfectly understands that the goals of the russian church and the russian state are completely opposite to the whole of russia to what the apostolic capital wants to do, and here both of these parties began to interact based on other opposing positions, trying to outwit each other in order to achieve a result for the apostolic capital, the result they want to see is to influence in a certain moral and spiritual sense this barbaric eastern north the state in order for it to stop the mass murders, to stop the massacre that it is currently carrying out in ukraine, of course here it is in the following.

i fully agree that for russia all these contacts which they are trying to support. is this not the only or one of the few windows into the western world through which they are trying to show themselves and er offer some moments that could be relatively speaking bought on the western market and but despite all these moments we see that there is no understanding, pope - he admits this, he told me in a private conversation that he is fully aware that all these efforts are futile, russia does not want, russia does not need mediation, and again what we saw in yesterday's interview is already statement of a fait accompli russia does not want to accept those worldviews that it offers this is confirmed even by this fragment which

refers to the conversation of the holy father pope francis with the prime minister of hungary viktor orbán and what pope francis actually made public this is an extremely resonant story and it can be worth the rest of the biography of the hungarian prime minister says that if we believe the holy father and we cannot disbelieve him in this case and in general, then orbán was informed by pro-russian plans are one moment, and the second moment is that orban really confirmed that russia was ready at that moment of the conversation to end the war by the ninth of may . by the way, this moment also deserves separate questions, because we know that the pope's relationship with the hungarian prime minister m' so to speak, far from ideal, because they have many disagreements and, again, the biggest

motivation, if you follow all the vatican sources that submitted er and talked about this meeting, they submitted under one context the attention from the apostolic capital of very strong of hungary and the prime minister personally in the context of ukrainian refugees, and this was actually the only justification for the pope. why is he once again holding this personal audience that took place after the elections in hungary, despite all the previous contexts that existed in relations both personal and interstate this is another confirmation that we are not purely political, which concerns the person of the example. you have already said, and i would like to emphasize once again this about the ukrainian concept of the position of the apostolic capital, that there are many things and in relation to hungary and in relation to russia, their paper

is made only in view of one of its own, in my opinion , a very important, uniquely necessary goal now is to help refugees and uh, as a more specific dimension and it is more global, it is to influence the course of this war in the context of stopping it and finding mechanisms of some kind understanding in order for these mass murders to be stopped. well, we at the crossroads, and in particular with the staff of our editorial office, are extremely cautious in criticizing, for example, certain statements by the holy father, pope francis, because we we understand how skillfully they are used in an instrumental way, pay attention to what kind of russian propaganda, because the kremlin was what does the pope say in favor of ukraine or in some other context, they try to use it in their thousand-year war, to call it a stone, but the question of the next plan, you mentioned what they say in

of course, we understand that you are limited by your diplomatic status, we understand that diplomacy in particular and vatican diplomacy is an extremely delicate story, but if do not name names, you can now characterize the position of the vatican in the ukrainian case, in particular, it is ready, it is about the readiness of the vatican to stop moscow in any way in the international arena, eh . there is no double bottom, no pseudo-diplomatic context, i really see how at all levels in the vatican they are ready and want to help in solving ukrainian affairs, that’s another thing, and again, this is not some kind of secret, not always these recipes are not always those concepts that dominate here or come

from different positions, they are really such that they can be practically applied, they come from a certain other vision, which is traditional, for example , for classical italian western society , it will not be quite andriy thank you and we invite you to end this conversation with ambassador extraordinary and plenipotentiary of ukraine to the vatican, now there is a moment of silence for all those who died due to russian aggression, light is their memory, may they feel with god