uh, the family doctor, too, a lot of children started to get sick, but that's how we pulled each other out. somehow we supported each other. thank god, who are their hygienists, ms. valentina, that is, how were these questions constructed, how did we manage to take care of elementary, uh, such moments of ours our existence was beaten very hard very hard thank god in the first days when there was still novus and the boys brought us food, they also brought diapers for the children, diapers for the women, pads, uh, there were wet napkins, while we had water, we could wet ourselves towels were washed with towels, so to speak , wiped with towels, we also quickly ran out of water because the water towers were broken in our hands and we simply did not have water anymore napkins

wet napkins - this was all our salvation to change clothes as well as who could who who in the evening who also washed the dishes wet napkins because, well, there was no other way we went to the toilet, especially with small children, we went to school and as you told me at night with a flashlight so that the enemy would not notice and so as not to attract fire at night, we we went out with a flashlight, uh, the toilets were on the first floor, we were in the storage room downstairs, we went out with flashlights only on the first floor, then we turned off the flashlights so that the orcs did not see the light of the echo of light in the windows, and we learned already during all these days to walk in we walked in the dark , we already knew something about the toilet working, how to get there, the

number of steps, which, uh, steps you had to climb on one side, there were 13 on the other side - 9 , and we already knew this, but we just really wanted to live for that, we understood what are we saying? light, we put at risk not only our family , but we put at risk all our people who we lived together, mrs. valentina, we know that with particular cruelty and particular fury , the russian military searched for the families of participants in the russian-ukrainian war since 2014, killed and tortured everyone patriots, veterans of the ato, their family members, were they looking for you personally and what did the conspiracy questions look like, did they come to you about security, that the russian military, the russian military were bomb shelters, i don’t know if they were the ones looking

us because i was with my family and with me was another wife of the deceased and her family eh we understood that the orcs could look for us eh we in the first days right away on the school grounds we hid all our documents we did n't tell anyone who we were, what we were, the dead , very few people knew when the orcs came in. well, they didn't, i don't know if they were looking for the families of the dead orcs, they walked around the rooms, they didn't see them anywhere the guys who were with us were there to say that they were the main ones and asked for a danger to themselves to hide the weapons because the children are afraid of them, they lowered the weapons, they were not aimed at us. they

went through, looked at the whole household, shone a flashlight on everyone and came out, but it was very bad news when bucha was already released, we learned that the orcs had come to one of our e- the wife of the deceased, our friend, they found this family, there is a possibility that they went to the family of nadia , they took her son out, and after a couple of days they shot volodya on the first day of nadia. when anything was released, nadia left, nadia was looking for her son, and she him found in the basement of the house where the orcs lived and she found her child, she took him herself, well, the boy is 25 years old. she brought him home in lisova bucha herself, and nadyusha buried him herself, mrs.

valentina, at the end of april, the prosecutors of the bucha prosecutor's office announced suspicions against 10 russian occupiers who were involved to the genocide in buch and this is only the beginning, it is known that these people took prisoners and tortured civilians and all of them of the 64th motorized rifle brigade, it was this brigade that, according to the data of our prosecutor's office, was distinguished by special atrocities in buch and now for according to the reports of ukrainian intelligence, this brigade returned to ukraine and is fighting in the kharkiv region, the investigative material says, "did you ever see any of these people, whom we saw in the photos, who were the soldiers you had to deal with? and in your opinion, all the same were these the same people who came to you, the warehouses of which you saw in buchi in the first days of the temporary occupation? scary

crimes, was it about a certain rotation, or maybe some separate units were introduced in your opinion in order to carry out all these terrible crimes against the civilian population . pig, dogs, i didn't see them, er, the first orcs who were in buchi , we were the ones we encountered, well, first of all, they were in balaclavas, they didn't show their faces, the girls who were going out, er, were in buchi because people were coming out on the street, when the asia store was opened, there were warm things, the people we met were all almost naked, and

those who could walk took a blanket, a pillow , took some warm clothes, and the girls said that they looked like us, that is, not buryati, not other nationalities are not chechens. my mother stayed in buchi. she said that they came into the house three times. they checked it three times. well, it’s all from her. she has it where she lives in buchi. the boys were beetroots further away, i also know. from the words of people, what exactly is more where we have shootings, it's nasti kolci on yablunska, what's there the majority and all this is torture. yes, we saw corpses , but the men were the first to be killed, only men were killed here, where we were, there were the bodies of boys, two boys

near the apothecary, further on, we saw one body near the bookstore, but they were all men, and well, you can personally see the shootings with your own eyes i did not see people, thank god. yes, ms. valentina. but among your acquaintances, among your relatives and in your family, there are those who became direct victims of those atrocities of the russian occupiers that already took place in the second half of march when the north complete darkness and hell enveloped the kyiv region. how did you manage to evacuate at the last and decisive moment, which was the trigger for the fact that they decided to leave and did it in a flash on march 11. we know that on march 13, the convoy that was trying to evacuate from buchi was shot first, the first announced there was an evacuation

on march 9, but it broke off, there was no green corridor, people standing near the city council because only from there was an evacuation, people ran to our school there were very, very many people were accommodated for the night were accommodated in classrooms because there was no more room in the bomb shelter on the 10th , a large number of people had already left the classrooms and went to the city council again for salvation they didn't come back in the evening and my friend, with whom we hid in the cotton warehouse anyuta, says you have to leave i say anichka i 'm afraid we will be shot and she says you understand we will be shot or we will be shot here, we can be shot there along the way to salvation, you know

and i dialed the head of our union and i asked sasha this is oleksandr boylyuk and i asked sasha do you think we should leave because we did not want to leave buchi and sasha said val if there is an opportunity to leave i am asking you very much to save yourself because there will be horror in after hearing oleksandr's words, buchi and i also approached the girls who worked for the teachers at the school, who we also hid together in bomb shelters. i approached all the people with whom we were friends and talked and i said, girls, we all need to save ourselves, because there will be more horror almost all 300 people who were with you in this match left the bomb shelter. there will be less

because on the 10th, many people also left. thank god, mrs. valentina. the first minutes on the free ground, what were they like? tears, only tears, i was driving, we were able to. thank you. to god, the orcs didn't kill our car, she was able to get us out, i was driving when she went to belgorod, i say, oh, i forgot, oh , when we arrived at the peaceful land and there was a roadblock in belgorodka, we arrived in belgorodka, and there was a roadblock on me well, they showed it guys, where should i go, where should i stay? i got out, you know, my hands and legs were shaking, i stopped this guy. saw two orc checkpoints when the machine guns were aimed at

us when the tangen ones experienced mortal danger for your children whom you could also lose and er mortal danger for your own life all this is a huge trauma for the second time in your life after 2016, when you lost a husband who died and did not return from the front, lost a child that you were carrying at the time, but there are people who experienced an even more terrible experience of this war, torture , rape. in your opinion, how can our society overcome the trauma of this war and what there should be a system that our state should build in order to provide assistance to everyone who carries this trauma already after our victory, you know, i also thought a lot about this in the 16th year, when such a disaster happened to me next to me

there were the same fateful girls who helped to go through this path because at that time, there was not a single qualified crisis psychologist . over time, psychologists began to appear in us in ukraine. well, there are very few of them. there are a lot of terrible facts in ukraine, they will lose their relatives, people have felt rape , people have felt abuse. i believe that the war is still not over, we do not know what will happen next, we need to build, for example, to take the experience of other countries, we need to create a large psychological

help the children, the people themselves, thank you, thank you, ms. valentina, in general, we heard that we are starting to lose contact, but the most important thing we managed to say, ms. valentina, is that i wish you, as well as all our compatriots, as well as myself, that we return to our homes as soon as possible. we believe in the armed forces ukraine, we hope for a quick victory, or at least for a victory, if not quick, then finally over the enemy, this is actually the most important thing. valentina buyalo, a resident of the city of bucha, who has now evacuated and is an internally displaced person, was in touch with us she told her story on skype, and now in our studio larisa voloshina, a psychologist, volunteer and human rights defender, and we will talk now with you, ms. larisa. i know

that you have listened to this story. to a different extent, someone personally, someone watching the stories on social networks, the fact is that it is absolutely impossible to remain indifferent to the people who suffered from the war, to the residents of buchi, therefore, in this case, well, i see that we all definitely need there will be a huge psychological rehabilitation we will need to revive our country because not only adults but also children faced the terrible realities of the war and everyone now bears such an imprint on themselves, but where to get so many specialists and how now uh, it seems to me that we need to think about it already now it is possible to send our er graduates of higher education institutions to internship

abroad who have experienced the war and have such a system already built, it is possible in this way, but simply er, this is a colossal number of people who they will need help, how should we think about it now, what should we do about this problem? it has several such layers, firstly, if we are talking about the psychological rehabilitation of the people and the nation, then it should be about what we have heard, people, and having experienced all this , they need victory, they they need understanding - understanding, for what? because the human psyche is quite mobile. it can cope somewhere or with some personal experience, but it is necessary to understand what is in the middle - justice, that justice is this, and it is not at the state level, that's why in this case, it is extremely necessary that the state information policy should be aimed both

at raising the spirit of ukrainians and , secondly, at nurturing this justice. it should be in everything, secondly, if we are talking about the human dimension we heard, i heard he, ms. valentina, she talked about the fact that she used to work in a veterans' union and she burned out, this is also a very important aspect, because in us , in any unions, in any communities that are united around the topic of war, this is relatives of the dead this is, for example, the relatives of the military, this is the military itself. there must still be professional skills in all of this everywhere. you have already said that the world has its own systems, for example , israel, which in this case is advanced in terms of military psychology, in terms of the psychology of trauma, they used to rehabilitate soldiers, especially soldiers who have come on tour or those who have suffered,

for example, some serious injuries for them, there is a basic page system. the fact is that in our country we do not have a single system. everyone does what we want a lot of psychologists who are unsurpassed , wonderful for a peaceful life, they don't quite understand how to work with people who are , er, in may or more in battle, relatively speaking, er, ordinary approaches are not suitable for these people, they don't want to draw an elephant, oh well this is from my personal experience when i was told what a psychologist was going through and, um, i suggest trying to draw an elephant. a person who has just experienced the horror of a collapse does not understand what they want from her, so in this case, the most effective system is the one that is used in united in the states, this is the system of the rivne plain, this is what we know as a community, as groups of people, groups that gather, among which there are those who are already in this situation

and have coped with it, new ones come. thus, it is definitely under the supervision of a psychologist, but the psychologist acts as a moderator, in fact, it is about unity there are people who have personal experience . there is one more point that i would definitely like to talk about . this is not such a secondary trauma. this is what i have already started to talk about . an mediated participant in all of these all of these traumatic experiences of rape and torture tries all of this on himself, on his family, on his children, on his wife, and also receives and shares this trauma unconditionally . take your child to take a shower for at least 5 minutes while you are somewhere abroad ukrainian women who have never seen war, but those who associate themselves with ukraine, people talk about the fact that i am in shock, i just stand, wash myself, what do we have, what do i think

some kind of support is standing next to his cradle, well, that is, these things are clearly signs of trauma with triggers and so on. well, the first thing to do is to filter the information, because in fact the mere knowledge of the existence of certain facts is more than enough to scare many people now the internet is oversaturated with emotional stories with these details. if you think you see that it affects you painfully, that you can't pay, you 're nervous, uh, put this story aside, make a separate folder on your computer and are you putting off all these history posts uh for later that i make a certain certain promise to myself to read this when the war is over when there will be time to mourn because now in fact many people what is this mechanism of secondary trauma in general people

associate themselves with the victim they immediately imagine themselves at the place of the victim and that is why you can hear from many how i can imagine what a person went through. so i am in shock. these signs, so what to do so that it is very important for all of us to understand because each of us will have to face people who have experienced horrors and they will turn to us for help, efforts , they need to tell us, so what to do, we must remember that - if i haven't survived all this, i shouldn't give birth. it's not my place for anyone who wants to help the victims of war, the place is the role of a defender, you have to become the one who , er, the defender of whom the victim did not have at the time of er, horror . you have to protect and certain metaphorical

attack the aggressor, we change our own role in this story. that is, we are not the victim, we are primarily the defenders of those who will come to restore justice to those who will protect themselves, their own family, and their world , first of all, and if possible, take away the aggression of the aggressor, we heard ms. valentina orcs, it is good if she needs talk let them humanize them in order to cope okay super aggress against the orcs aggress against the aggressors because the victim just needs someone who can do it because she herself can no longer do it this is the first sign traumatization in a person is completely atrophied , this is the moment of such aggression, to go down on the aggressor, she is a person who is angry, what is the horror of a traumatized person , she is on her own, why did i not leave, why did i allow it, why did i not say or why did i say , that is, all the aggression of a person should be aimed

at not being the aggressor due to the fact that at the time of the injury, it was physically dangerous for her, the victim blocks this anger in himself and then directs it at himself, therefore, aggress against the aggressor. help the victim, show what you feel, you can't, i can't imagine what have you been through or what have you been through, but i hear you, i hate you, i would kill you, or i would, i would drag this animal to court by the hair, that is, be aggressive so that the person feels that you are his defender in this story, that's why and the last part, if possible if we are talking about the country in general, ukraine should definitely choose a standardized system for working with groups of people who have experienced trauma, who have become victims of torture, rape, abduction, i heard, and it is necessary to prepare people, it is necessary to prepare a huge the number of specialists who will work within this system of involving international experience

. larisa would also like to talk to you as a human rights defender. our compatriots are also experiencing such manifestations of genocide as the forced deportation of the residents of mariupol to the depressed regions of the russian federation, kherson, crimea, and so on. to the temporarily occupied territories and further into the hinterland of russia. what would you advise these people today as a human rights defender, and by the way, an interesting aspect is how a wave is being observed in russian society we don't have much time for deprecated people, so please be brief . there is a certain algorithm given by human rights defenders. you can familiarize yourself with it about the fact that it is necessary to find ways to return unconditionally or to russia. the occupied territories are not safe for ukrainian citizens, but i would like to draw your attention to several points which related to this is the kind of surprise experienced by the occupiers when they started carrying out deportations in crimea, for example, there are a huge number of messages from local authorities

who are already addressing the deportees, saying that they are not should you criticize the russian government, remember that we are all nervous here, because otherwise there will be administrative fines, that is, what happened, they deport our people, and those people as soon as they come to their senses a little, as soon as they recover from the lack of bombing, what do they do they are starting to say that crimea is ukraine, donbas is ukraine, that you are the occupiers and that, in principle, the number of people in the occupied territories who are absolutely pro-ukrainian has increased and literally yesterday a letter was published which sent the fsb command in crimea to the axion, they say that the situation is dangerous because the russian military is going bi- and that means their number is decreasing on the territory of the occupied crimea, so they say that it is necessary to somehow ensure law and order, it is necessary to somehow create an army or an army when he is the army of the

people's self-defense, because the military is not will be , and the number of pro-ukrainian sentiments in crimea is increasing. that is, we see that there is the occupied territory and it is dangerous for you to express the ukrainian position, do not be heroic, because protecting you and freeing you is now our task. thank you larisa ye voloshyni for this interesting and meaningful conversation. volunteer human rights defender, psychologist larisa voloshina was our guest in this part of our broadcast, maria gurska i conducted for you this issue of portraits of war and right now i am handing over the floor to my colleague serhiy rudenko, who is ready to start his program in a moment. verdict but after a short important information from espresso so, let's watch a small informational story and a post after we return to the

mariupol air, life in hell in mariupol was not in this ukrainian city, life under constant fire, anime directed to itself, life without light, water and food. on april 4, the rrt concert illegally turned off the digital

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to the petition site, enter your email, password, enter , return to the main page of the petition site, open the petition for the return to the digital air of ukrainian tv channels espresso of the fifth and direct press the button to sign the petition, the inscription will appear signed your signature is confirmed and taken into account, let's return ukrainian patriotic channels to the digital air together we will not allow freedom of speech to be destroyed in ukraine, it is very important in this difficult time to be aware of what is happening, we tell the news and help to understand the events, however the war can make its corrections if the broadcast signal is lost, watch espresso on the satellite now espresso has become available on two satellites at once if you do not have a satellite dish and the broadcast signal has not appeared, search for

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