do you remember how the cameras used to be, well, by the way, they earn quite a bit, they still appear to be here , well, and gradually refuse to ban the import of russian oil, but we know that hungary's position here remains difficult, and we understand that, uh, hungarians are actually quite a pragmatic country quite a problematic country, somehow this happened . well, we talked to experts on hungary, they say that hungarians are just enough not to call them cynical, i call them very pragmatic and they just count the money in this case less sentiments towards european values ​​well , did it somehow happen and we are centimeters according to ukraine and now the war is probably somehow so or what should we do here until now that no embargo can be introduced well look i agree with that that the hungarians are of course very pragmatic, but they are no less

pragmatic than them, for example, the same germans who are used to trading with russia, but there is a certain breakdown in the hungarians, there is also a certain resentment here, which coincides with the sentiment of the russian federation that is, they have very close ideological foundations, it is, let’s say, love for european values ​​and love for daskreb. yes, only hungarians have their scraps in russia in their scraps, but on this field, let’s say, they converged, and that is why we have such a problem today, but you know i i think that it will be resolved in any case and the hungarians will be squeezed in one way or another, and the european union will be the first to squeeze it, yes, it will most likely be delayed a little in time . a transitional period regarding the receipt of this russian oil, but one way or another it will happen. because right away, if they are pragmatic, they will simply calculate how much it costs them to buy, for example, russian oil. yes, and

how much they will lose if the european union refuses them, for example, a significant part of the subsidy which their economy has been receiving for years. well, in fact , from the first day they became a member of the european union, and now the european union is still dealing with this issue, but it is already reaching the means here you said mass media all over the world actually already uses the term mass media because it is feedback in russia it is really mass media disinformation so there is such information that the hungarians have already warned that guys, let's go ahead and choose a little or you will still be the action of the common european policy, or we will remind you of all the attacks on european values, violations of european union legislation, they already have enough of this happening, they have been repeatedly warned, so here in ukraine it is necessary just continue the policy of diplomatic pressure of this kind. well, let's hope that sooner or later, at the level of the european union, a

consensus decision will be made, and there is hungary, after purely calculating the loss and profit they receive there, they will also agree to the introduction of this embargo on oil, the issue of gas is of course, it will be much more difficult there, there are many pragmatists, there are quite a lot, but even if at least work in this direction begins, i think that there will be pluses for ukraine, although look how it is it didn’t sound paradoxical, the introduction of impar oil will hit russia even at first harder than the introduction of barva for gas for one simple reason, oil must be stored somewhere in the russian federation, there are no resources for this, that is, they will be forced to conserve completely, they have already reduced production by 17%, in fact, they will have to in the future were to preserve these fields and not invest money and, let's say, their development, and therefore, in the short -term perspective, by the way, it will cause them even more damage than the refusal of russian gas but we also need to work on gas here, precisely the position of the united states is decisive if they

offer an alternative, if they will increase the sanctions pressure against the russian federation, setting an example, and they will increase military financial support in ukraine, then i think that the majority of european countries, which are currently hesitating about gas, they will also make the right choice. by the way, many people here say that putin made a lot of false predictions when starting this war, but in he was not wrong because of the fact that energy prices have risen to a record, in fact russia has not decreased, even increased its income from the sale of oil and gas itself, and here it is very important to adjust to lower the very hyped price of natural gas and oil and about that they say it's been the third month, but so far it hasn't worked out. there's no such thing as a critical situation, neither in venezuela nor in saudi arabia. what's the problem there? can we still expect that the price will drop?

you understand, this is a global problem the problem is geopolitical and ukraine does not even play a major role here. let's remember the slightly strange position of israel until recently, what it took in relation to the war in ukraine and what is it connected with, it is connected with the wound and what they are afraid of what will be concluded this agreement is essentially a nuclear one that will allow iran, on the one hand, this is a plus for us and for many countries there, they will enter the market with their oil, but israel is afraid that they will then somehow begin to feel more confident in the region, which, well, constitutes security directly for israel is a danger directly to israel, and therefore the intertwining of these moments leads to the fact that a quick decision regarding saudi arabia, venezuela, let's remember what the regime of venezuela is and how they communicate with the same russian federation, and what the russian federation was doing, but it almost said that we are going there we will send our paratroopers there, they will solve some issues by the side of the united states, so yes, it has dragged on in time, but you understand, the war in ukraine is

simply inevitable, what is this energy issue accumulated all the previous years, it did not only arise now, it also arose earlier and therefore in this context, i think that well, one way or another, sooner or later this hacking will begin and this hacking is clear. well, it will benefit ukraine, our main task is that we be we are ready for this so that our army is strong and accordingly we did not wait only for him to do what depends on us, a very important moment, let's still remember tomorrow, may 9. well, first of all, what do you think about this day in general, it still remains it's an official holiday, a holiday in the ukrainian calendar. is it ok? well, what do you expect from putin tomorrow and his obvious speech, what will happen in moscow? well, look at ukraine, after all, we are over the past few years, 7-8 significant breakdowns

have taken place regarding the attitude to the ninth question in particular, and the fact that we are moving more towards the european celebration that falls on the eighth , yes . all died in the terrible war in the second world war this hack exists and it is even observed in sociological surveys there. yes, citizens of ukraine are also inserted. in general, putin's aggression and russia's war against ukraine are related to this issue. i think it has already radically pushed us to change, let's say, our worldview in general, and we will talk about it on may 8, not on may 9 on the 9th, it will already remain for a very small part of the population of ukraine, what will putin do tomorrow? well, there will certainly be a lot of statements. i think that he will definitely come and pay attention to the topic. world nazism, genocide in ukraine, well, that is, all those stamps that we have observed until

today, only this will be like this, you know , a concentrated look, uh, again, absurd statements are directed exclusively at the internal user, it is clear that they have no impression on europeans, on the world community, and even more so on ukrainians they won't do what he said today, like he congratulated the people of ukraine and georgia there. well, i was just looking at the comments. is not perceived in this way and will not be perceived in the coming decades, perhaps, in relation to those statements about some kind of declaration of mobilization or war against ukraine . first of all, such official things do not harm russia itself. a very strange situation will arise if they only now declare war, then it turns out that they did almost three previous months, which means that they lost in the previous war in the previous battles actions, well, admitting it at the official level is, by the way

, the same thing as announcing officially that this is a complete mobilization, that is, it will be necessary to come out and say that our so-called special military operation in essence well, you can not say it, but it failed , the ukrainians gave us the they said that they don't have a state, they are not like russians at all, and so on and so on, and here we already have a patriotic war. we need to urgently gather all our forces and do something with ukraine , so i think that there will not be such a direct statement, but there will be a lot of threats aimed at including in the windows, this nuclear stick will again be waved in the form of a doomsday plane that will fly and most likely rockets that will transport, let's say, the red square there and some statements that we don't want this, but if they attack us, we will be forced apply, but in general well, i don’t expect something so drastic tomorrow, but definitely, no war will end tomorrow, then they won’t say that they have achieved some of their goals. yes, there will be a statement

about what we will fight. nazism as long as necessary. well, we need to prepare for this and be aware that in principle , in principle, yes, well, a few months, at least, all this will last. here are new new new narratives about this war and here there was a very strange story about this old lady that was spread simply in er well, just on the internet, ukrainian soldiers put it up, they latched on to it and that came out with a red flag and here they are already riveting some sculptures and everywhere they are installed, it looks like this. i don’t know . i’m just trying to formulate my own attitude to all this, but it’s kind of wild and ridiculous. well, for some reason it seems to me like that, well,

they have some kind of crisis and what’s going on, no, it’s despair, you know, they had a method they thought that after the invasion of ukraine, this method would work, it completely fell apart, they couldn't find anything for this method, and since they are lazy, they don't know how to understand differently when you live in society where there is no competition and you only have a certain number of propagandists who are engaged in this propaganda, then they degrade in their development, and that is why they do not need to invent anything . from the point of view of linking to this myth about the great patriotic war to this negativity, but well, it turned out as usual . under the control of the territory and she explained what she meant and all this was monitored, they are starting to give up on this now, they

tried to make up several, well , you know, absolutely such absurd stories, as much as they like to do it, it did not go well with russian society in general, they actually have a problem now deeper , because tomorrow putin has to think about what new words to find for the russians, how to explain to them what is actually happening because we, what did we get involved in, that i got the whole country involved, and what, accordingly, is it now will end because, you know, it was possible to push this thesis about some nazism of the bandera people and so on , but sooner or later it stops working if it does not have any confirmations. and there are no confirmations, but the english sign is signed by russia and ukraine. federations. i think that in fact they have only one way to bring to the maximum absurdity those theses that they introduced earlier when they will not be accepted by society at all, so this society will be with the help of force

to drive him into some kind of structure and demand from him some kind of obedience, well, there is no other way. they lost, they lost, to invent something new, somehow in a new way, it is simply impossible to present this whole story, and both in terms of information and in reality, even putin announced, well, hypothetically, the patriotic war tomorrow they don't even collect people because they will start to simply run away from the mobilization, you understand the letter z, the swastika, this newest one can be drawn when you are sitting and talking somewhere at a distance or writing something on social networks, going to the square somewhere to some rallies and when you are taken to the army and do you know which ones i really lost in ukraine, yes, the situation of this army is changing very much and we can see it from the latest reports, desertion , refusal to go and so on and the like . with anton shrochinich, who wrote such a blog today and published such an opinion on the internet about why they put lenin and pushkin in the occupied

towns in the east of the south of ukraine, because the russians have nothing in them. they are not new, they do not have any new ideology that they could adopt and this is just an example with that grandmother from ukraine, because she is just well, she was just like that family mother was something else and here is just some grandmother who is very old i just don't understand how it should unite, and that is, the very lack of any new narratives , new narratives, they simply do not exist at all. you see, the problem is that even the old ones gave birth to them. they are extremely personalized. there is no negative in ukraine with this, for example, there are no problems here, it is possible, we have monuments, for example, to our ukrainian cossacks there, and everything is enough. well, it is clear that there are hetmans - this is one story of chieftains there, koshovs and the like, but in us, well, let's say a whole execution,

a whole class which distinguishes us and in which there is kyivan rus, including yes, not only the princes, but the society as a whole that existed and we can talk endlessly at these meetings there, the heroes are cool, yes, as individuals and in general, as a phenomenon, young people who did this to me, they are nothing like that there is no because they and they push what you had for such a word, what they had back in the soviet union, because the manual and books have not changed, again there is no competition, take what is the impression of that grandmother , what is that mother's family, who was on the posters of that great national she is already 100 years old, she has grown old, she has become the largest, and she is already leaving the flag to exchange it for provisions. well, this is some kind of story. this is what igor reiterovich looks like. he was with us at this late hour. ukrainian center for social development thank you. and

i want to say that there are already almost 12,000 of us on youtube , that is, we are arriving. thank you to everyone who watches us on youtube in particular. well, i will also remind you that until the 12th today we pray until 12:00 if if you see us on tv, you will also see us . well, even though t2 has not been returned to us, it has not been returned to us . unfortunately, we are still collecting a petition. everyone will say that it is usually difficult for us to sign any technical problems. nevertheless, the process continues and continues . our next guest is serhiy shapovalov analyst of the democratic initiative fund named after ilko kucherev e p serhiu dobry vechir i congratulate you not uh let's talk a little about sociology and a-ah sociology as no one actually knows how ukrainians are changing now because here we are we talked about it today that in fact everyone a day

of war is sometimes like a whole year of peaceful life, i.e. , very serious changes are taking place to the roots, people switch to another language of communication, people give up what they thought was always clear... well, i don't know there, brotherly people there and so on, that is, some tectonic upheavals are reflected in the mind. do you, as a sociologist, notice this, where it is most pronounced now, of course , public opinion is changing gradually and slowly in calm conditions, nevertheless, 2014 was the first such tectonic upheaval, and when we began to observe that when answering the question about foreign policy orientation, commitment to the pro-russian vector became, one can say original, since 2014 when we ask what

course ukraine should take or is it the course of the euro-atlantic integration or the course of the union with russia or there is a non-bloc course, yes, in general, in the country, not since 2014, this commitment to russia has not increased by more than 15% . and although earlier, the euro-atlantic course was, i mean, until 2014 year is not so relevant. i think that after the full-scale invasion on february 24, we will probably not have almost any people who will be loyal to russia. moreover, if we talk about 15% in the country as a whole, yes, loyal to russia that i mentioned then most of them were observed among the elderly population in the great industrial centers of the south and east of ukraine are actually those that the most active russia is destroying right now. i think that these sentiments will disappear completely after this second great tectonic court of public opinion. well, we

all expect that ukraine will be, that ukraine will win and start absolutely to a new stage of development. well, we hope for huge breakthroughs , we hope for a quick accession to the european union of the european union, and we really, really want it to happen, but but i, for example personally, i have the opinion that not everything can be done only by changing the legislation. i, for example, am quite skeptical of us here. mr. yaroslav said that for him, the varnish is such a piece of paper, the main marker of the fact that ukraine has changed, it will be a change in the judicial system. well, for me it seems that until there is some kind of social misunderstanding, it is possible for a social social agreement among ourselves that we all tolerate corruption less there, or for example, this corruption by tolerating the match - no, this is also a possible option, yes, it exists in our country. well, i just don't

i don't believe that it is possible to recruit several thousand such ninja kamikazes who will do everything well for everyone, and all the rest will try to steal , give bribes, etc. it is impossible to defeat the people if they want to engage in corruption, no judges will help, in fact, in this sense, it is very important to me how the things that change the slowest, namely value orientations , change. say something about it a-a i think that it is precisely the attitude to corruption that you mentioned that should really be a key change on the way to the europeanization of our society, because the rule of law is exactly what makes european countries european, the development of the economy in including it depends on the rule of law because when an investor or

business owner understands that the law enforcement and judicial system works normally in ukraine, he is actually confident that it is possible to invest in this country to run my business and that extends to all spheres of life, so we now have to go through this realization that uh, all the thefts by corruptors are money, it's not up to purchased shells for artillery or hmm no no not up to money spent on the army, what is it costing us now in life yes, and that's why when we hear these the voices are such that for money they brand people who fight against corruption as quarrels or what? what else are they saying? and many people listen to similar and similar magic. i think that this attitude should change radically, and the value and understanding of what corruption is - it is not it's just some kind of flaming injustice. and what about corruption, uh, they are considered, they are not

state apparatuses in general, this is manifested in the economy and in our defense capability in everything. to be honest, i also really hope that the attitude to corruption in our society will change radically, well, for example, i think that well i have a slightly different opinion. i think that in ukraine, since we have an imperfect system, a lot of things remain , e.e. with regard to business , e.e. the administration of tax payments and so on and so on, corruption was and remains such a certain beer and this is a good image when a long, long time ago , in the 90s, one of the economists said that it allows this mechanism to scroll very well , for example, we see that if, well, that is one, one , one of the answers to corruption is always liberalization. it seems to me that liberalization is what we see now on the example of oil, er, these fuel crises. hmmm, we understand that if we liberalized this, we would allow the importation of literally every gas station. it was

the price would be different, but there would also be fuel, so this is this, this is also a question of approaches, eh. well, as for me, and therefore, in this sense, i am very important to me, do ukrainians remain to a large extent, well, such big children who often listen to populists because i very, very often, i see massively, in particular, in my bubbles in social networks, when people say that let's chop off hands, conventionally speaking, repel hands, chop hands, we don't have a president who didn't say this sacred phrase to repel something like corruption, but there is no, and i don't know whether will be on the next one but the question when we talk about the state is not a question of the severity of punishment, it is a question of inevitability, or does this understanding change, you know, society is changing, everything is under the influence of such tectonic events, such as war.

before it is no longer suitable, but how should it be. so for this, uh, for an adequate idea of ​​how civic education should be needed, and uh, because if there is no idea of ​​what the rule of law is and how strongly it affects the same economic development, this is the demand for the quick implementation of justice, there is the chopping of hands by the president, it will continue to exist in society. people, and very often due to the lack of civic education, there is no understanding of how specific the impact of corruption is on the economy, but a person does not understand what part of money this person she paid taxes with her salary. yes, she simply steals into nowhere and does not receive some kind of public good. but if, uh, civic education

can fix these problems without it. unfortunately, we will have a lot of politicized people, but who will retain a demand for populism. unfortunately, that is, in addition to that that now this war has proved to everyone that it is impossible to be out of politics, you still need to understand that to be interested in politics and to be already in it , you need the right specialist well, we remain a young democracy, but actually for that that you remain this democracy and continue to fill the crowd, but moving is one of the reasons why today we are fighting against putin's autocracy, putin's efforts. thank you, serhiy shapovalov was in touch with us, and now we are moving on to our next guest, it will already be our last conversation for today is yuriy shcherbak, diplomat, writer, publicist, er, in general, a very respectable person, yuriy. good evening. i would start

with something general, because when you have a large-scale guest, you can take risks with such questions, and in fact, what are your impressions of this war as of now and how they have changed in two months, well, mr. andriy, first of all i want to thank you for inviting me on the air exactly on this day, may 8, not may 9. because for me, may 9 simply does not exist today in communication, i will say communication with what i want to tell you. do you know why? i am satisfied that today we are having a conversation with you because it seems to me that it is without any extraneous, believe me , paint, but objectively, in my opinion, where is a very valuable historical exhibit, you know why because

my childhood begins with the second world war in kyiv and i remember very well the first day of the war in kyiv yesterday in the first year and the evacuation and the sound unfortunately at the end of my life i had to witness the eyes of this shameful war engaged in by the putin regime and racism against ukraine so in our the problem with the stars is what happened. when i saw this exit to the regret of millions of our people abroad and everything that was done related to the war in ukraine, i told you that for me

, the ninth of may does not exist because it is a fake date. it was invented by the tyrant stalin and supported by er brezhnev and you, then it was used for the purposes of propaganda, there is absolutely nothing to do with thoughts about the terrible war that took place, and this is actually a holy victory, which in russia is supported and stimulated by the authorities, and this is actually a false holiday that absolutely contradicts the principle laid down in the decision of the united nations, the date of the end of the war that we celebrate today, today is the day of remembrance and reconciliation, and

of course, we must remember -e was visual a witness to what was done here in ukraine in kyiv, and russia, completely denying this memory of reconciliation, which is the basis of today's date, is trying to turn its gang ideology into such a national holiday, playing on the basically holy feelings of people who they remember the sacrifices that were suffered by all nations in the war as a whole and so on, and that's why i think that it is generally unpleasant for me people who, er, still retain this

holy feeling about may 9, when i think that it is actually victory day, it is not victory day and this today is the day of today's propaganda campaign, which will flourish on red square in moscow and in all russian cities. i think that this is what we are celebrating today, memorial day, the memory of the military victory over the verma for hitler's military machine is, in a broader philosophical sense, the victory of the forces of good over the forces of evil is still a victory