lviv propaganda about the reasons for russia's distortion of history let's talk with andriy zubov - he is a famous russian historian, doctor of historical sciences and political scientist, he is now in touch with us andriy good day i will speak with you i will speak with you in russian now you must know that you are in moscow and they still haven't saved the ukrainian language yet, but the main language is probably the language of truth for us now, which the kremlin is constantly trying to distort and in fact those events that were salary 80 years ago, and those events that you attended 8 years ago, those that are happening right now have a completely different picture in the head of an ordinary russian viewer and a russian reader, and probably most of the world that we call civilized, how can you read why this is happening now ? will happen eventually and will forget the myths that, unfortunately, are rude and in colossal quantities, now i use

my er as a professional historian, having studied a lot of history and russia and autumn, including ukraine is understood. it is very difficult to look at this weather when it is said that no country has ever been a victim of russian aggression . russia has never attacked anyone. well, of course, this is not true, and other countries are attacking russia's aggression. it attacked me once, and by the way, when it usually attacked the ending was bad, the usual one, it was bad, but when she really defended herself, it was foreign aggression. well, how can we say the attack of napoleon and not the fall of hitler? even you, so many lies now, and one of the dnieper is very big. it is not true that they are asking russia to say that there is no ukrainian people, there is no ukrainian history.

well, this is definitely a complete mistake. well, it is clear that it is one thing when it is simply said that it is not true , and another thing is when reality tries to reformat the gap. this is a lie. we see what is happening . strongly in the a-a territories occupied by russian troops, when it is just the first thing that they ask to start lessons , e-e pulls out the textbooks, they remove the inconvenient truth , inconvenient information about what happened in in the past, why is russia so actively trying to plant its own version on the occupied part of ukraine? i am afraid for this objective history in

russia. we have written a three-volume history of russia known to many ukrainians in the 20th century, which are republished every year . такой делных яйх государств. when entering the russian empire into the soviet union, the fight for an honest history is very important. there was no russia because history is taught, well, it is taught . blaming others for oneself is always a mistake. even when a person accuses everyone of himself

and praises it, it is always a mistake. historical, false, historical interpretation, not even a scalaz, it’s possible, someone knows in ukraine. i entered the crimea with putin, wrote articles that the communist party wrote about the soap opera in kiev. a lot of trouble fell upon you, to put it mildly. yes, i was just kicked out of my job, and after that they were banned from teaching at the russian university of luboml, uh, until now. putin published an article, first world wars broke out, where he spoke of justifying the molotov pact, rebels, and i spoke of writing a large

work that said that it was historical, there were hundreds of errors, they pointed out to putin, then he was very recently in an article in ukraine, how do you remember where he denied ukraine a stolen existence. not again, i had to publicly say that this is wrong, that this is wrong, but i did not think then that these exercises are scientific, or already scientific, will lead fat people to ukraine, they led to war, so now we have to fight for the war was halted between the restoration of ukraine, the restoration was within the borders recognized by the international community. их купить наше ошибки thank you, first of all, for your position, it is very nice to hear ochakov in moscow , in general, an objective assessment, and what do you think?

you believe that uh, without any strong ones, you are shocked by uh, just stories, uh, conversations, about the truth, it is possible to return uh, to russia, the russian people, which the kremlin propaganda has turned, well, in fact, into an analogue of uh, fascists, uh, in normal state yes, i believe in this and believe that you understand. well, that's it let's say, uh, dilimansky, to the people of the needs of hitler's perfect executors. sometimes it seems that in moscow there is rarely a car with these badges,

but for each such car, i think 40 cars without a badge are telling me this car, but we did not point at it , because the number of people on the now they don't understand why we connected it to this war of horrors, it's not that they condemn putin, eh, the majority doesn't condemn it, but they don't understand why it's happening and they want someone to bring it to the end of the war, and it's not necessarily the victory of russia, they don't talk about it so that it ended, people are afraid of pigeons, they are afraid of nuclear war, and well, they are afraid of waiting for anything, of course, even the majority of such an unpopular high judgment. well, people are not used to it, but you also support total aggression in ukraine . to know a complete star, that is, a fake, let's say the germans, hitler's war was much higher than

the support of the russian population for putin's war in ukraine. and how do you think the war will end? you're a historian. you 've seen and studied many military conflicts. to wait for some global shocks, including in russia, your forecast is my forecast, this is the first schedule, this is the political schedule . war in ukraine but this is an objective conclusion that russia cannot win this war, it cannot win all civilized humanity and civilized humanity itself. if it doesn't happen then, russia will definitely lose here, and i think that it won't

happen . here she is big when she is practically unstoppable how all the time it was also unbreakable that's why this war will end with russia well, russia can understand differently , russia can be fucked to the last how is it for a soldier ? then we will have nice agreements if ukraine goes to them, and yes, it will be easy to choose, but he will destroy me then the threat of aggression, well, let's say it will be a minimized conflict, like the conflict in north and south korea, i have the same possibilities in principle it depends, eh, ukraine, eh, russia, i think well, such a person would be ready to go because of someone, and

will ukraine go? the frozen conflict is less expensive but more dangerous for the future. what will happen in russia? this is another question that can change the entire leadership. stranger, who will think that putin is a loser, is leading a war, and in general, he is a loser. it is impossible to fall. maybe the top of the kgb will retain power, yes, yes, it's very big , its popularity is inflated because there is a war , it will be unsuccessful, it is understandable that those who wage war will lose their popularity, and without popularity among the people, the autocratic press will not rule for a long time. maybe these are the ones i would say now, there could be

trends, look at some of the biggest losses among russian soldiers, how are the rules, this is the national republic, this is dagestan, this is buryatsia, plus the depressed areas of the russian federation the scenario of the collapse of the russian federation and the national struggle of the peoples of the national republics that i consider as probable as the result of this war no, i almost do not see it as probable because, in general, the national one actually has a national civil national consolidation of russia great, great and - and the voices of the separatists are practically inaudible, i'm listening, i don't look at the internet, uh, they are, of course, like in any multi- ethnic country, but they do not dominate completely perfect ideas, the second one moved, the entrance to real federalism, that is, and this is what the opposition in chechnya is calling for, someone is calling for it in

yakutia, and we will tell everyone there, the national political party is our wave from palkin, people's freedoms, we also advocate very broad and deep federalism. well, how if what is written on paper, then it exists, make it even deeper and stronger, this is what is in ukraine in ukraine, i often hear the voices of the lord of russia, i don’t like it i live with the fact that you don’t want yourself, because you do n’t want ukraine in recession. well, why do you constantly want markers of ukrainian cities and destruction of people ? vols in the russian federation, well, i'll bring you here, when the old name war ended, then the chelcha ended with a proposal , whose proposal was to divide germany so that it would not be dangerous into six states, the allies did not go for it, because

they considered it something of the extra humiliations of the ottoman empire the people say. as they say, the result of this war is 8 million dead. still, it’s all the scale . it didn’t even dawn on god from ukraine. here is the holocaust, and yet the allies didn’t go to this so as not to humiliate the people in germany or lead to revenge again. how did they humiliate them later? vesalia, how many years later , yes, after 15 years, ivansh. after that, by the way, the side was not divided, they lost east prussia and selesia , and other regions.

not the belgians did not take away a single square meter in germany, because they already started from the earthly concept, not the humiliation of the country, but the change of its political political consciousness, what was called denazification. and therefore, even in the 60th year, they stopped the whole palace from germany at the request of you, and they only continued introduced themselves, changed them to the oil plan, the whole aid plan to generous germany, and the result is the effect of such and such a policy right here, its position vesalsky policy was the one that western germany became an organic part of the democratic western community, then east germany united in which until now, as you know, there are problems due to the fact that the soviet union has east germany 101 versailles. that's what germany is, well, the main field of the nations of europe, the

european union. so i'm here i want to encourage you to understand that the spirit of europe, its normal, ideal ego , became the second after 45 years ago, and this is very important . pobedy is not even a cult, but it is possible to call such a new secular religion the immortal regiment of cult ancestors in honor of the war that was 80 years ago. and what will happen next after the defeat of russia in the ukrainian war, i understand you, uh, i think that first of all, the cult of victory is not everything, they remember the war everywhere. i think they remember it in ukraine because there is

no such ukrainian family in which who loves not he died during this war, he didn't suffer there, even like you in russia. just like in kazakhstan and georgia, in armenia, there is a vyzebajanyan everywhere. that's why this memory will be for a long time. well, you understand the honor of 200 years. well, i still remember people. i'm 7 years old. i remember people who were injured by the problem of this war . i visited them during the war and so on. that's why scott, about the war, it's natural and it will hurt even more. long here but the cult of war is eto the official cult is inflated by the state and well, in general, i will say that a part of the people accepts it, but

a significant part of the people does not accept it. tapes, this is all from this series well, many people repeat the words of great russian writers who went through the war themselves, that this is a holiday, that is, the 49th of may, with tears in my eyes, with tears in memory of the dead. будет после украйнской войны i just think that the ukrainian war is already all triumph and all triumphalism in relation to the second world war will end completely completely and the memory with tears in the eyes of both that war and this one unfortunately, the war in which many people also died and the soldiers of ukrainian residents continue all this you understand terribly and that's why all this will also be remembered as it is remembered that the afghan war will become a training

normal people no one is justified in russia there, i accept the official opinion some stupid решения но еготого никото не оправдываться потом thank you, andriy zubov, a well-known russian historian , doctor of historical sciences and political scientist, we were in touch with us, we just discussed with him that, unfortunately, the tears from eh are now becoming more and more, and in order to understand that what will happen to russia after the war in ukraine still needs to be won from the russian occupiers and we remain with the marathon and so do you watch us further ukrainians from the military dear our relatives, i am addressing my daughter, greetings from all of us with care to all i wish you health with support and will be well love is a big component of this victory is your love for us a strong front and a strong rear

only victory only forward glory to ukraine we remember we win behind our backs according to the article of brave ancestors for life the hero of the past or our roots those who changed the course of history god is unbreakable and the strength of all our heroes is not forgotten in our warriors, we will win today over my country, the dralists from bohdan to azov, because freedom is in our blood, we won then we will win

and now the audience has noticed that this hour we are saying mainly with historians, because it is important to understand why the russians want to appropriate the victory in the second world war, and we will talk about this later, not only ukraine suffers from this audacity, in fact, but also other states of the anti-hitler coalition, how to fight this, how to regain the right to victory, my colleague anna cherednychenko together with ukrainian historians oleksandr zinchenko while ukraine is trying to win its victory over russia in the russian-ukrainian war russia wants to claim victory in the second world war victory over nazism. why is she doing this and what history does she want to hide? we are talking about this with our

colleague , social historian oleksandr zinchenko. but it was russia that won despite the fact that there was a whole anti-hitler coalition, there was a huge contribution , in particular, from ukrainians, who are also trying to level russia. well, in fact, it all started simply from that that each nation has its own national operations in the perception of any history, and even more so the history of the second world war, that is, the history of france in the second world war - it is mainly the history of the resistance movement and not what was called, let's say , cooperation, that is, collaboration, collaborating governments and so on and so on and so on that is, the french don't really like to talk about these ugly pages and much more want to mention nothing and the opposition, in the end it was roughly the same story with the russians at first, that is at first it was in principle president lis, we will

not talk about any such pages that related well, it seems to belittle the russian contribution, the soviet contribution to the history of the second world war, to the victory in the second world war, this is one component on the other hand, when, for example, in the institute of national memory, they were preparing a book , war and myth, so i was one of the editors of this project, so we, as colleagues, counted more than 100 different historical myths or falsifications that function to this day in the collective the memory of russians in particular, and obviously when everything was built on such myths or falsifications or aberrations, sooner or later it could only lead to the fact that, well, we are the most important thing, that is, that we could win without you, as putin said in his time about the ukrainians, yes, but we see that

even today's hostilities show that without the ukrainians, the russian army is not capable of anything, and maybe this is such a victory, no contribution, more precisely, it is more correct to say that all other representatives of the anti-hitler coalition will try their to hide the crimes, because actually for ukraine, the war began in 1939, when the soviet troops were occupying, well, the key problem of the russian view of the history of the second world war is that they do not want to perceive this history as the history of the second world war, that is, from september 1, 1939 to on the second of september 1945, that is, it is primarily about this first period of the war in which the ussr was an ally of the third reich, that is, it must be clearly said that once again this effective manager, stalin, was one of the closest of of hitler's ascetics and associates in the period from

august 23, 1939 to june 22, 1941, when two cannibals quarreled with each other and eventually german aggression against the soviet union began, that is, in this whole story, what is the problem that well do you remember, it seems , kartsev had this beautiful number here, he plays here, he doesn't play here, they objected to the fish, yes, that is, approximately, yes, yes, they perceive the turia here, play here, don't play. it suits us. it doesn't suit us. it's true. world war ii the war began on september 1, 1939, and the union itself was an intergiller and, established on august 23, 1939, it opened up opportunities for hitler's aggression against poland, and in the end, the ussr entered the second world war on the side of the third reich 17 in september 1939, this aggression began, and a few days later soviet troops were here and lviv became soviet after more than two

weeks of the german german siege of this city and between the wehrmacht on the one hand and the red army on the other. coordinate approach, which allowed the withdrawal of the german troops in order not to break out there, as they say now , friendly fire, that is, so that they did not accidentally start a skirmish, a skirmish, so to speak, so to speak , that is, there were a lot of stories like that, again, if we look at the pravda newspaper in december of the 39th year, then on his 60th birthday, today we can see very warm telegrams from adolf hitler to ribbentrop, where they remind of the age-old friendship that comes between by the german and soviet peoples and about very warm words personally addressed to er joseph stalin that is, it was all printed in the main newspaper of the

soviet union in the newspaper pravda and here i just want to talk about the struggle of ukrainians because this is exactly what russia tried to hide and still tries to hide it was actually the ukrainians who stood, their struggle was against the hitler regime and against the steel of the stalinist regime, that is, we were in the epicenter, if you can say that the problem of the ukrainians before the second world war was that ukraine and ukrainians were a divided nation, i.e. ukraine was divided between four states, i.e. the largest part is under the soviet part of ukraine, a slightly smaller part is galicia and volhynia, which were under the polish sovereignty during the interwar period, and we also remember that northern bukovyna and bukovynia ukrainian lands were under romanian occupation, and it happened again that what was then called carpathian rus, and now it is called transcarpathia, was

under the sovereignty of czechoslovakia and then again in march of the same 39th year, after the division of czechoslovakia, once again hungarian troops, who were allies of hitler in the end , that is, the problem of ukrainians already in september of 39th year, consisted in the fact that ukrainians were in all armies that fought practically in the second world war from all sides, if we look at the polish troops in september 1939, there was a huge number of ukrainians in the million polish army, about 120,000 . if i am not mistaken, there were soldiers and officers of ukrainian origin, and in this sense they fought against the wehrmacht, and in this sense they fought from the first minute of the war for the right cause, as they often like to repeat in the russian federation, and on the other hand, there were such

units that entered, for example, from the territory of slovakia, the ukrainian national e legions, and the so -called drying battalions means from the side of slovakia on the territory of poland, again in a certain sense, which were allies of the wehrmacht and opponents of ukrainians in the polish army, the largest number of ukrainians was usually in the red army, which in that moment was the allied army for the top, at the same time, if we are talking about the history that is already further, so to speak, then we can also remember the thousands of ukrainians who fought, for example, in the army of great britain in canada, uh, well, i mean, they were only of canadian origin, a huge number tens of thousands of ukrainians fought in the e army of the united states e america e and how is this possible for someone does not sound strange well, if i am not mistaken, about 6,000 ukrainians fought, for example, in the french army on the side of the forces of the attempt

, why was it all hidden, i even remember my history lessons from school, then in our country ukraine fought as part of the red army. well, at most, the oun, the upa, but well, we will understand that there the beginning of the 2000s was still such a specific presentation of these pages of history, the key problem, again, of the soviet approach to the history of the second world war, here is the decree here no , gray, the fish are finished here, that is, a very selective attitude to the facts, that is, it was necessary to cut off this first period of the history of the second world war, and it was necessary to again minimize the role of the allies, because again, i want to remind you that after the second after the second world war, the cold war began and, accordingly, this meant that, of course, we can, well, we certainly cannot avoid mentioning some things, but some things, again, the scale of hinduism, they tried to avoid it again, because uh, it was

again talked about very a lot of uncomfortable facts, i once observed maybe 10 years ago an absolutely fantastic friendship between two veterans, one of whom was very pro-russian , and the other was soviet-minded, and the other said to him, listen, you, remember, what are you up to i didn't go to villichi, we found you, do you remember that you are an american tabula stew, and he simply pointed out to him everything that, again, the americans supplied for the red army? well, of course, there was nothing to say about that, because he said well, maybe he didn't say, i'm wrong , but he said that well, ok, that's not what russia is silent about, what should we talk about? but there is no russia syndrome of guilt before ukraine while the entire

territory of ukraine was occupied while ukraine was in the second world war from the first