i once watched it maybe 10 years ago, it was an absolutely fantastic discussion between two veterans , one of whom was so pro-russian , so soviet-minded, and the other said to him, listen, you, remember what you were driving there, you didn't get out of vlyaschiv, you didn't get out, do you remember that you their stew was american, and he simply pointed out to him everything that, again, the americans supplied for the red army. well, of course, there was nothing to say about that, because he said , well, yes, well, maybe he didn’t say it, i’m wrong yes, but he said that well, okay, you’re good, what else is russia silent about, what should we talk about, it’s about the losses of ukraine in the second world war, now berlin, for example, has official ones, it’s official they have this syndrome of guilt before russia, but there is no syndrome of guilt before ukraine then how the entire territory of ukraine was occupied while ukraine was in the second world war from the first and well almost there

until the last a-ah while 8 million ukrainians died both civilians and soldiers, what is your opinion, why did it turn out like this, in fact, there are many factors, first of all berlin is located in east germany, it’s true, and accordingly a huge number of berliners, a huge number of germans, east germans. they only heard the soviet version, and the soviet version was not kyiv-centric, it was moscow-centric, accordingly, again, the second operation is connected with the fact that, again, in the german language very often functions precisely because we fought with the russians, yes, that is, the russians and the ukrainians in their coordinate system, again from the submission of russian propaganda from the submission of soviet propaganda very often functioned exclusively in the context of cooperation with the farmacht with the nazi regime, even when it was, for example, forced collaboration and again avoiding the discussion of any motives, respectively

. when you come to berlin and tell an ordinary person that ukrainians with weapons in more than three and a half million people died in the fight against nazism, so a large number of ordinary people are very surprised, moreover, even non-ordinary people are surprised, because i remember very well how in 2015 things happened in the bundestag the conference at which the famous professor from yale university, timothy snyder, was the keynote speaker, and in front of that esteemed audience there were a huge number of deputies and the leader of the christian democratic party of germany at that time, so he uttered approximately the following phrase that ukrainians fought against the nazis and died more than americans ukrainians fought against the nazis and died more than

british more than french and more than americans british and french combined and there was a deathly silence for them it was like a shock like thunder in the middle of a clear sky because they had never thought about it in such a way that again this is not only a problem of only germans , for example, er, i, er, of our polish er, er neighbors of our friends, i was surprised by the information about the fact that 700,000 ukrainians died on the territory of modern poland in the fight against the wehrmacht there with nazism, and 240,000 poles already died with weapons in their hands in the fight against nazism, that is, for them this is also a very unusual comparison of such numbers and this juxtaposition of such numbers very often breaks it stereotypes break the idea of ​​what was the role

of ukrainians in the second world war and to summarize briefly, will we be able to take advantage of this situation when russia went on a full-scale offensive ? i am convinced of this, in the end there is one big argument of a beautiful photo with a flag on yojima and a less beautiful photo but with a different flag over the reichstag and it is necessary to understand that both there and there there were ukrainians and the flag of the united states the states of america are wintering over and here one of the sixes that he raised was of ukrainian origin, he was also one of those who raised the flag at 300. he also had ukrainian origin. thank you for this conversation, which is extremely important in these times. and for such historical optimism, thank you too georgy

zhukov is one of the most famous and most titled commanders of the second world war. when germany attacked the soviet union, zhukov was the chief of the general staff and it was he who was tasked with repulsing hitler's army, but counterattacks were carried out led to the defeat of the red army as a result of miscalculations, whole divisions were surrounded in 1942 zhukov commanded the western front marshal victory conducted continuous offensives that ended in defeat total losses in the rzhev prison operation alone amounted to 777 thousand people unheard of casualties did not stop zhukov even among the rank and file fighters, the nicknames of the hearse commander or the butcher quickly spread. in the summer of 1944, zhukov coordinated the actions of the first and

second belarusian fronts from lavry. for a successful operation bagration, thanks to which belarus was freed from the nazis, zhukov appropriated to himself by pushing other commanders into the shadow, in particular the commander of the first belarusian front, marshal konstantin rokosovsky, this glory of zhukov led to the attack on berlin, despite the fact that the defeat of germany was already a matter of time, marshal victory did not count on any victims in the berlin operation he lost more than 15,000 soldiers every day, almost 90 tanks and 40 planes, all in order to enter berlin earlier than the allies only according to the official clearly underestimated according to data in the berlin operation, the red army lost 352,000 people killed and captured after the end of the second world war. zhukov was the commandant of the soviet occupation zone in

germany for a year because of war crimes and looting . other crimes, in 1954 he led 45,000-strong military exercises at the tok training ground to study whether the army secretly used an atomic bomb there in a nuclear war due to complete secrecy, no one still knows how many soldiers died or were injured as a result of the 1957 trial of georgy zhukov. the communists themselves removed him from the post of minister of defense for mistakes and perversions. the cult of the marshal's personality began to be created later, already during brezhnev's time. let's remember georgy zhukov. the figure is ambiguous and mythologized . the cults of his personality, which were created by the ussr and are being carried out in modern russia, are far from the historical truth, and the commander himself has been turned

into a bright label, a tool of totalitarianism propaganda, let's consider that we owe the victory over nazism to millions of soldiers and officers, hundreds of thousands of whom are still lying in nameless graves. in such conditions, there can be no marshal of victory and it is hardly ethical to associate her with any particular name. good morning. glory to ukraine is a marathon the only news for you is working for the team. socially, my name is anna cherednychenko. these hours we mostly devote to history. on the afternoon of may 9, it is very important to talk about events that seemed like a long time ago. but it is important to talk in order to understand the difference between never again about

what the civilized world says and we can repeat what russia says instead of learning the lessons of history to appropriate the victory over nazism in the second world war russia is trying to do it now and did it under the soviet regime why did they keep silent about the contribution of ukrainians to the victory who in the ussr started parades on may 9, answers to these questions were sought by our colleague anatoly yarema together with doctor of historical sciences, professor of the ukrainian catholic university yaroslav hrytsak listen all wars end sooner or later this one is also ending. we really want it to end as soon as possible, but here is what historians will write about it in the textbooks. we will talk about it with the historian yaroslav hrytsak and yaroslavi. i congratulate you. we want to talk to you about this war, but first of all, you know how to call it. song not

because i want to repeat soviet principles, because i believe that this is really a great war, because only ukraine decides the fate of the world, and secondly, this is really the first patriotic war, because here we see for the first time when all regions and all layers are active the same thing that before history we never had okay i agree with you eh although now our soldiers and we all write this story every day but with definitions a little let's wait i want to ask about eh years eh may 8 all over europe all over the world, the day of remembrance of the armistice was repeated by europeans as a mantra. never again. the next day in russia, another slogan can be repeated, and this is what happened . we repeated it. we all believe in our victory, that ukraine will win. because it cannot be otherwise. but will our victory mean that we lost? europe because she allowed this war, it is not like that, you know

, europe does not have a european or a liberal democracy at the moment, it is run by states that, in the end, would not have that wealth and would not want to go to europe, let's say that it is quite fair and we want to deserve it everyone else thinks that now we should start talking about the conditions of our victory, we don't know how long the war will last. it can last a very long time. the war may still be, you know, a lot of things are unexpected, but right now we need to discuss the conditions of our victory, the world for the most part did not understand what this war was about in general . i don't think so anymore. i think that this was the first phase, we have already passed this phrase, i think that it was a turning point after all, bucha bucha, obviously we have a lot more of these in

ukraine, but i saw the fact itself, we have already spent some history, i understood that it's about the survival of ukraine about the future of putin's regime, you think there is no future, and also about the office of europe, the contours of the future world, you know what johnson is doing or what biden is doing, you know it is overseeing if we understand that the strong is about history, it is about something else, they do not send us a history textbook of heavy artillery, why was this all less than a day? this is an appropriation of history, and in general there was the impression that russia has only one historian, and that historian is putin, where such things do not come to mind. lenin created ukraine and and so on, there are no truthful historians left at all, that's all propaganda, we are preparing this propaganda reads, as you know, i don't let people see history is no excuse, the city of times, there can be no taxes for nothing stories can be a question for everything for nothing i will say so because behind this completely different nikolay is whether the reasoning lies in the future of putin himself or the future of his regime, he understands that if he has ukraine by his side and a free ukraine that is going to europe, this is

really an aesthetic threat because the whole is being destroyed the russian peace that he built so that he believed so that he believed that what should be returned to you you know this is that i am a living history you know let him do what he wants obviously there is nothing to answer for this match as you rightly say well, i think that very it would be wrong on our part to get involved in historical disputes. it's just to ignore, you know, i have such examples that i saw it or read it, you know, to discuss it, then on this story, you know, to play with the pigeon in the closet , he will turn over all the pieces for you, find them on the board and then to remind you that he won this party, you know it 's my meaning, we have a war now, it's not about history, our war is about the future, it's very important, of course, history has its meaning, but it's practical. i know that the most important thing is that there is such a thing as the honor of the profession uh, this concept is important, uh, those historians who stayed in russia don't defend their profession, of course, if uh, because many left, well, look, you know such historians. i wasn't going to

name only honest stories . they did not remain there are still a few left, let's say a personal word to say goodbye because well, you yourselves understand why because the war and they accepted it very, very calmly, on the contrary, they wished us victory well, there are very few to say . for more than a hundred years only deals with the history of ukraine, unfortunately, they either became putin's successor or prepared this war that way, if they did not convince, they did not convince putin into society, convinced that ukraine is not serious, that the ukrainian movement is you know, you have some sort of delusion, well, most ukrainians are asleep and dream of the return of soviet ethics, everyone else, look for it, because it is shorter , she also forgot the ukrainian historical operation, i know the experts will also be called. unfortunately, they are, unfortunately, they are quite a lot. they remain i don't know what their fate is, do you know that some of them were excluded, they were

tricked out of money, it's good that there are more universities in the west for invitations on a black letter, but those historians, i know that. fortunately , they are russian. and i would rather be outside ukraine, outside russia or some of them remained in russia, but almost all of them wrote me a letter of apology , this is very important, they are ashamed of it, they are worried about it. curiosity is now a professor in chicago, iryna mogiler can't sleep at all. well, although she can sleep because of what is being done in ukraine , you said that it has nothing to do with history - these are documents, this is a stage of putin's delusion. i'm going back to that, but she obviously fell on some kind of fertile soil - this is a total lack of vigor, did it not run from your electorate ’s ignorance of their own history, or did they already have such a distorted idea and it was mixed with imperial

ambitions, and here it worked. there are two possible answers to yours, and both the correct ones just give a different perspective, one is a short, short , long perspective, and the perspective is that this is putin , his highness, you have a call button, and this button weighs a lot, these lines are a beautiful book by peter pomarancheva, this is possible, nothing really, and it’s worth it read he shows how it works inside. he says that the only way to get this russia together is to have a tv button. it looks hopeless. it looks crazy. it works . all the same, some kind of operation, i have already spoken, you know about it, the powerful, the powerful, and the rest, you know, i will tell you this. why, the only thing we understood was these facts , which should be repeated in time in 1991, when yeltsin and his entourage were deciding what to do with in ukraine, these were the democrats who then came to power in a position towards the communists. they made a very simple decision that ukraine should be allowed to leave.

why ? to dictate attention glory is the truth about this the way of the environment this how they think they recruit about some opposition do you know a certain putin we do not forget that putin came out not only in the church gb then entered the russian politics or environment sobchak's position and waiting for everyone else did not see the devil sobchak elnitsa but they thought let's say so you know well, first of all it's better kagibichka good doesn't happen anymore for sure is it good who else because he can pretend it's very important we know it ourselves and you know a lot it is written that early putin looked like a democrat, he spoke like a democrat, you know everyone else, it is obvious that he lost everyone by one head or something, you know. and you know, if it wasn’t for putin, he would still reflect the point of view of this environment, which believes that everything happened in the country economy, so many

annual historians, you think so, they did not convince, i remember in 1994, they had a conference in lublin, where one of the biggest ones came, you know, i will tell you parables because it is already difficult at home . landing takes takes takes takes takes at the academy of sciences who is a specialist on national issues and when the panel came it was about the future of ukraine i said that there is nothing to talk about there is nothing to talk about except that it should not be it will fall apart that's all other i'm not saying that it's normal, first of all i'm normal russia, but unfortunately they are in the minority yaroslavich, do you think that this war will force us to rethink the meaning of the world because we know what is being done in russia, it won only there were no ukrainians in russia, there were no allies, uh, only the russians won, uh, it's not surprising, because it's propaganda. as you said, but the millions of ukrainians who died and

uh, their memory should be honored, where can we find that balance on may 8, 9 well you know it was perfect would be 8 and 9:00 so us christmas on the 26th-25th and on the 7th because i miss about many people reading the moves that came he teaches parents died this is just a holiday you already know for the inertia of may 9 although as many veterans of other children say that this is an october holiday so after that what did putin do with him - this is a holiday of loss, so it means which was real in the 60-80s or this or the holiday of memory will be remembered and cried, and immediately after the war it didn't even happen, it wasn't a day off and it was all in 65 year already, but you know people, young people, they are 40 years old they still remembered and everyone can, this holiday had a certain beauty as an icon, it is difficult for galicians to understand because we did not have this holiday. but in the east, you know the huge losses where there were many people who died actually in the cleaning of the army. family is very

important, that's why i don't deny that people should have the ninth of may, but may 9 is not in the sense. as a day of remembrance, but not in the sense, we can repeat what is very important, because putin is against this tourist holiday, russia is experiencing historical toxicosis and this touch - this psychocorso is a holiday this is a holiday in quotes we are the ninth look how they how how they say and lessons are lessons we have to do first of all i think that how-no-how the red army made their mission great because it is convincing and let's let's put our hand on our heart, the guitar would win. we would n't have a discussion with you right now, we wouldn't have a problem with the ironic story that once, once, even more than once, one slave owner defeated another slave, which means that slaves didn't bring us freedom and glorified slavery, that's another matter here it is and why is important this is why this is why ukraine is a subject between the object and history, the central question what should be done so that this does not happen again, that we are on different fronts and sometimes against each other, this is the

key question that ukrainians have to answer. i believe that they have already answered to a large extent because they are passionate about their independence, in particular because they are judging you so much now, you know that our subject is growing to the sky, but there are certain things that we have to improve because they remain for our task and homework, we are not only a master independent, we read it as wealthy and strong, this is very important. this means that we have to do the homework we did before the war. er rating data 92% of ukrainians consider themselves ukrainians actually ukrainians er 11% only feel some kind of nostalgia for the soviet union and these numbers are radically different from those of a few years ago 10 years ago i was with you on this commission

you're right. only i wouldn't take the word radically because this is sociology, these things were already very much the most important indicator for me, and it is shown in these polls that every time ukrainians were asked whether they would vote for independence for 30 years, we said yes and the majority said so but what is the main thing, but when did the percentage increase ? the maximum increased during the annexation of crimea by the crimean crimea, almost the same as in the 91st year, that is, the war made the barrel war finally in the anti-terrorist operation, which still remained. how many percent were there who did not have it? 10-20 i cannot say, but even before that it was it was very elaborated that the ukrainians choose their own country, independence, freedom. so they are different, and between the russians it’s just a war, you made it so that now it is clear to everyone, even in kharkiv or odessa, and even there from lviv, when we see about

odessa, about kharkiv, you almost think of it as opinion exist, mr. yaroslav, let me ask you something else, i am sure that you will tell me now, you are not right, but this is my perception now after, er, in the third month of the war when it is already a reality, this european thing never again will i perceive as blasphemy why why because because because it happened because it was by hands it happened and here's how to really make it so that never again ceases to be an empty sound never again action within the framework of the european union period this is what i want to say because it can make a war between france and germany or italy, austria, do you understand that when i used to imagine myself in a situation where scotland would attack the northern power, do you understand, is this within the framework of ukraine? this is how i perceive it, but i am

obvious. further, this is the biggest challenge, the biggest challenge, how now to spread the ukrainian rule, never further east to eastern europe, which has not come here, which means that ukraine must find a european war. we are very important, which means that ukraine must win the war and we will win the more convincing one, and in the second moment everyone has already done a lot, that is, i would not reject this form, you know, because this form is very important to me , what are the two formulas? you don't know at all that the borders are historically fair, so it's a pity that something is moving, but the borders can be. and they can't be moved, because if you move one border, it's something else, and the second is that no one has the right to interfere, more confident than the state to dictate these conditions you know i am for this you think for this we are all for this i think for this we are fighting because this is the first principle of a just world which on the basis of measures arose in europe in europeans is spreading all over the world but it does not work everywhere but our war is for what it is

the wind began to blow in this territory, on the territory of ukraine, our borders are violated and we cannot give anyone the right to interfere in our affairs, full stop, for me this is the spirit of this europe. why this did not happen is a very simple rule, this historian will tell you because three generations came who did not there appeared third economies do you remember what war is? who imagines that war is somewhere very far away and that the fault is what you see in hollywood movies or on the computer screen when you play. the history itself. in the 13th year in 913, most people did not believe that it was possible for us at all because there were 100 years of peace and 100 years of economy. the illusion is that if everything is fine then he won't really be, nor will there be war all the time, war is a right, only this repeated war accompanies human history all the time, unfortunately, peace is an exception, but this means that we must refuse to fight for

peace, we have to fight it, we just fight for it and to understand that it will be very fragile, he never knew himself what it is that we have to stand up for and do on the front and also state historical and economically different reforms to make it stand so that it does so and i will say in general but you said that something we have to do with russia or in you are gone there is no hope that russia will heal itself no there is not because russia has been healing itself for at least the last 200 years and all treatment attempts end with an even more severe and protracted disease, you know, i can translate for you these reforms of alexander the thirty-first nicholas nicholas i you know shevchenko, do you remember all these stories ? mykola palkin was the name of the whole reforms of ruslan ii , then 30 years of oleksandr serhiyevich nikolay ii's terrible, terrible regime of reaction, then 9 months of 17th year, when it seemed that russia had finally become normally liberal and 40 years stalin 10 years khrushchev and 20 years brezhnev 10 years by the eggs of

gorbachev 22 years 22 years putin, we see historically that russia can never heal itself , only it needs a doctor, a serious doctor why the doctor must be from outside and the medicine it must be very strong and we need to detoxify here . ok, i say yes. so a skilled doctor should do it. and if there is no doctor in russia, well, we have the armed forces of ukraine. i understand that there will be work for years and decades and there will be a lot of work for us god of strength, thank you very much for the conversation, as always interesting and meaningful, i wish you peace in the clear sky as soon as possible, only to win as soon as possible, of course we understand that the price will be what to pay, but the price is very noble and i do not have the amount that i will win glory to ukraine heroes glory to ukraine

on may 8 and 9 the united news team will organize a special marathon two wars one future together fun factual journalists like the news today and the council in the studio from kyiv to the telecity between kyiv and berlin from tsn what do the second world war have in common

and russia's modern war against ukraine how the so -called great patriotic war became a weapon of russia why a pretended friend became an enemy and unleashed the biggest war since the second world war and how europe rallied to help ukraine protect common values ​​the free world united for ukraine in its brave struggle for freedom and self-determination on may 8 and 9, watch the special marathon of unified news two wars one future we remember and win chunderam siriem salchenko 6

this is a marathon unified news we talk about the lessons of history that we have learned and our neighbors are russians we decided to repeat this, we can repeat what they shouted, how can we repeat about victory, it turned out that we can repeat it about murders, it 's about shootings, rapes, about the destruction of peaceful cities, that's what they were able to repeat, and our task now is to stop them from winning and not let them repeat it russia is now fighting for the past ukraine is for the future , according to british journalists, writer peter pomerantsev, together with our colleague angelina koryakin, they talked about how crimea is planting old soviet narratives on the oka