the fifth day of russia's war against ukraine in moscow , the victory day parade, where putin explains the reason for his invasion, read all the latest news on our website bbc.ua, i say goodbye to you , see you tomorrow. good evening to all who watch us, you actually watched the bbc episode and now let's come to the live broadcast of the direct channel and shared with espresso and my name is andrii seichuk, we will be with you until 12 midnight. and you can be with us. if it will be interesting and useful for you to listen to our broadcast, it will be sung, because today i have a very guests will be interested and we can talk about actual events, actually, we will not be ourselves, ours will help us, here are these watching. i have some just in the studio today, yes, this is andriy osadchuk and

there is never between us to make a wish for you andriy zaychuk and andriy osadchuk today in the studio of the live channel espresso good evening good evening panel no i congratulate you with him e pobedy thank you very much but i have the truth here with me here is a red poppy well, but it seems to me more about yesterday yesterday and the 8th he is in memory of the dead in the second world war the victims of nazism since may 9 i was very frankly disappointed by zelensky's speech i told vitrovych well yesterday was a good speech today was bad zelensky said that after all may 9 is an important day it should not be canceled and what they were very worried . here's the thing about what you know. well, we'll have two days of victory when we beat russia now, and there won't be any in russia. well, you know, it's hard to expect that every speech, every statement will be

liked by everyone and be perfect for everyone it is still worth noting that the communication office is currently working well. let's face it, they are working well. and the proof of this is that i am sincerely convinced that ukraine was able to completely break and win the information war in europe, because we understand that it is a war, and in ukraine has a probably unique point of view that the public opinion of european countries actually determines the political decisions and actions of the leaders of europe . to the extent that everyone who is engaged in external communications with european countries is doing a very great job, ukrainian diplomats are doing a great job, ukrainian politicians are our modesty there, i don't know, i may have made 100 or so inclusions on the broadcasts

of western tv channels, but i know for sure that my colleagues there made more than 500 and i think that it is drop by drop, it is giving this emotional breakthrough that is now in europe, which is actually totally pro-ukrainian, and this is actually very important. this is probably the most important thing now when we talk about the informational component of this war, and it is, again, absolutely fundamental, because all politicians focus on whom, on their voters, and they look at public opinion, they also conduct social measurements, so in general, this part is worked out. i think that everyone in ukraine is very good at the fact that there are sensitive issues they are and will be, and this is how i understand the behavior of the office. well, they perfectly understand that there is still a significant part of the population of ukraine, and you and i understand it perfectly. this is the same southeast, south, which they have a slightly different attitude than this. for example, the vyatrovych college is also

in lviv or so on, so i think that it's just that way the office is trying to do what is called looping, but i really count on the fact that this is a temporary phenomenon because this the war forced everyone to take a very clear and categorical position regarding this russian soviet generativity, even with certain sentiments, like i constantly lead a discussion on this topic, i'm there. a child who was born in the ussr, i was already 20 years old in 1991. yes, there spliced ​​on soviet rock and roll and so on. accordingly, we do not. of course, there are certain sentiments there towards their youth and so on, but i now stand on absolutely clear positions of total de-russification of absolutely total and de-sovietization and de- rossification because there is another option in the situation that we are in ukraine simply does not exist, when you say totally, you mean totally just for yourself, well, again, uh, this is the moment when you

can't formulate it all with some single rule , after all, as they say, some biker on the right has to be yes, it is necessary to analyze well, yes, you can, yes, you can get to the point of banning gogol, or is there something else ? yes, of course there are exceptions, well, not that there are other exceptions. but all this must be done, but as strictly as possible in a clear format about ukraine. now let's continue this conversation. i like it. it 's always interesting to me because it seems to me that this war is a very strong war about identity and what will be the most important question immediately after the end of the war, but it is necessary to put it now, it is about the fact that we all understood that we are fighting for independence , people in kherson are fighting for independence, people in donetsk are fighting, people in donetsk, well, from donbas, from everywhere, for everyone , independence is a sacred value for which people lay down their lives. the question is what for independence for us. the question is how we want to use it. it remained because there will never

be an idea that it does not depend on us. it fell on our head in 1991 because there are prices. i decided to make a presidential springboard from the ussr. let's continue . now, first of all, we have already started talking about public opinion and the need to take it into account . on may 9, with flowers or with portraits of their relatives of those who died, let's listen two months later, he died near melitopol on the milky river

. there was and is such a river and mariupol residents. the war is going on, i just took care of these graves that the milky river near sevastopol in october 1943, and it was my brother who died there, no one ever thought that we would fight, russia will fight with us, this is a great grief, and i believe that this grief has a beginning and will be the end and the end will be happy for ukraine, this is a terrible war, i would never have thought that our

neighbors, the russians, are so heartbreaking, yes, our lives have been destroyed. looked, they didn't do this, grandmother or other grandmothers in the world of grandfather, who is already 70, this is more summer, he doesn't believe that i have may 9 - this is victory day, why ? ukraine will actually listen to

people who say that well, it's an important day anyway. and in general, it's a little strange for me to see people walking with flowers on this day, despite the fact that my grandfather also fought, for example, in this war, he's already dead lived for 93 years. that's it hmm and what are you just a question of who is in what and what is the most important to me in this, i say the narrative is a little scary because i constantly see such and such an effort from the office of the president from the very beginning to say that the soviet union is us too well, they actually said it directly text, i actually see a great danger in that, because well, we did not fight in this, well, ukrainians did not fight in the second

world war as a subject, even if they were people who went and were patriots of the soviet union or they were subjects of the ukrainian state for sure no, or they fought because it was simply under duress, as they entered, for example, the territory here in western ukraine and immediately mobilized everyone, gave them some kind of er-er gun to drown their hands and threw them like cannon fodder, or can this be considered deliberate and i'm not saying it's national anymore, but simply, can this be considered victory day for these people, how can we get rid of it, it reminds me of one discussion with about the family-mother, it's a huge sculpture, this one is on the maximum field, yes i once came to of kyiv in 2001 or 2002, and i watched a gentle broadcast on the channel on the new channel, if you allow such an export to ask a little, and there was a rustic guest at a journalist's house, i don't remember who

and what he says and he says this family mother says what people should do with her, well, at the beginning, the relative asked herself such a question, and podervyansky, unable to pour spoons onto forks, says look how many spoons and forks will be cool from this ugly statue, but in fact i see that well, if you write in there is not much that flies in social networks a million bots, but there will also be a lot of people who will prove that she somehow secretly stands facing moscow , as if this family continues a minute ago, she symbolizes ukraine and stands with her back to the germans, which is important against the fascists, and that ukraine is there and in she is like some kind of water-shaped pretty face unlike that mother's family who wants to be more expressive and beautiful with a bigger sword but somewhere in volgograd or somewhere there but she is not

so beautiful although it is very controversial, that is, people they really want these proprieties to be allowed to call what was russian russian. you could even call the russian language ukrainian, let's call it eastern ukrainian, it's simple, well, it's on the level of absolutely real ideas, these are all narratives for arrestees, what, instead of ukraine, we'll have russia, so what ? these people don't understand let's go or i do n't understand something maybe we all don't understand something there is no need to claim the truth in the last resort but let nature anu mother this is just my very favorite example a-and first of all we have always remember that there is such a terrible thing as time and time determines it, dear, dear, our viewers, who now has the opportunity to write, for example, on youtube, our on on on this ask questions, for example, talk about the family-mother, please write, please, and we will answer family mother, there is such a

terrible thing in this life, how time determines absolutely everything, and people in general, homo sapiens, still live in this world because we are very adaptable, this is our competitive advantage in nature in general, and we are adaptable to everything and, above all, to the environment in where we are and the various external images there, whatever they are, they are perceived by us as an integral part of the environment of our stay and believe me, a person who grew up in the ruins after 20-30 years says, oh my god, what beautiful ruins . by some figures at khreshchatyk 36, because i grew up in pechersk and then in the shevchenkivskyi district near lviv square , and this ruin of the unfinished theater has been standing for years. in the center of the capital in a glamorous, expensive area, but they grew up in ruins and i know for sure that for them this is a

normal landscape, because everything is beautiful in childhood and it is beautiful, and i don't want it to annoy them, it doesn't annoy them. and now we will return to the births body because it will be interesting to the hipsters of kyiv who go with that expensive coffee somewhere in podil in this terrible shruynation and such and such, but now you understand now think about the ninth online and now i'm on the way i don't know why it's like this for me it's even a little irritating topic because i don't know the position a well-known classic of literature from the rather early er years of independence preached in various audiences er behind a bottle and without preaching exactly that it should be dismantled and this position of mine was definitely built from two points of view, firstly, i really was always an anti-communist even despite that they still remember the number of their komsomol ticket, but i, well, i took it very aggressively, and besides

, i am the kyivan who remembers that without childbirth there is no mother, i will tell you more, i was not open. i saw brezhnev living in 1982 when her opened in 1982, yes, that is, i have children's memories of otlensky, how is it, on the right bank of the dnieper, kyiv, where there are no families, no mother, where the laurel, what bell tower dominates, there is nothing else, but why am i telling all this, that is, i personally have a deep conviction as it was before. that is how it is and now that it does not exist at all. i, uh, especially through the prism of sovietization, the imposition of soviet communist symbols on the entire policy of russia for the last 30 years, i understand how critical it was and remains for them that it stand because they are ready to fight for any symbol of the soviet era, but why did i take so long? i say it again, starting to work in the kyiv city council. and there were adults and already successful people around me from our liberal, reformist, pro-european hangout, and

i told this to a girl who then she was already mature. well, she was probably 35 there. how many times did i tell her about this topic, something about monuments, and she looks at me and says no, andriy, i don't agree with you at all. well, it's a symbol of kyiv and so on. and then i start to understand that for her it is everything her conscious life, as they called lavriants at the time, she was always there and it is the same . i'm sorry for what happened in paris with the elf head that you also wanted. how do you know how to dismantle 30? adults, i'm not even talking about those who are there, er, there, i remember the soviet union, but i'm sorry, the soviet union died 30 years ago, they sincerely believe that this family-mother is a statute, regardless of which way she looks, it doesn't matter to them what she has to be in kyiv, and i think our big task is we continue to talk with you about decommunization, where sovietization is not just demolition, but there is or some

rethinking, possibly giving some new meanings, some kind of reworking . we believe that we are aligning public consciousness and public perception is probably wrong. and they say just change it, by the way , they believe that it is a symbol of ukraine for some reason. although it is definitely not a symbol of ukraine, but it is actually it it symbolizes the union of soviet sociological republics, that's why the coat of arms is not shields, and they think that a good solution is to just put the trident on the shields and that's all. my personal opinion. i think it's a crazy idea. according to this logic, you can not knock down lenin, but cut off his head with a statue and putting mikhail hrushevskyi there, for example, is acceptable no, it’s true, well, it’s enviable, it’s impossible at all, it’s the same thing as putting tourism there, i’m sorry, this is a symbol that was built in soviet times, so that i at least did, of course, without iron in the berdyan coat of arms should have been done a long time ago, and

technologically it is not difficult, and i left the matter at that, that is, the soviet coat of arms cannot be there under any circumstances. her but maybe she can stay, but once again we need to give some meaning to this, intelligent people should work for this. i don't know in the ministry of culture or where he was. we need these fundamental narratives. a week ago, when at the end, in kyiv, they dismantled this terrible monument to the friendship of peoples, which was proposed a long time ago, and i remember that the former only klitschko proposed it, the famous glass bridge was being built there, there was a lot of construction work, that's all we wrote then, they said yes, let's go together and take away this monument, it was not taken away, now it was dismantled, but the way it was dismantled, i believe that it was dismantled badly, the operation was unprepared, they pulled it there, did you see if there was a crane there for a couple of hours ?

they sawed off the legs and it all fell apart and they took it somewhere instead of at least selling it at an auction, and believe me, i'm a little familiar with the market there for all kinds of monuments of cultural value, i know for sure that there are collectors all over the world who would pay a million dollars to come themselves how neatly it was taken away, i.e. to complete this block of our conversation, it is not as easy as it may seem to some, and for this purpose there must be a meaningful state policy that determines how and why and where we are going with these key cultural and historical meanings and i i think that the president's office in the verkhovna rada also wants to work and work. i think that there are good cases, there are already real cases of such decommunization and, well, new, new meanings, well, there is also lesya ostrovska luta, for example, who made some completely new, wonderful, cool space. this arsenal, which also has very different layers and

very few ukrainians or they are almost absent. but they were able to do it, and i always have something, well, it is like the pirogov estate, for example, in vinnytsia, it has its own history. it was the estate of a very rich families that have some kind of their own kind and he is forgotten, well, that is, i mean that there is always something. when they came, but i also understand the person you are talking about, now they are writing a chat here, there is no need to touch on the symbols, let's just replace the coat of arms with let's give a trident yes, this is a symbol of kyiv, and there are many people who deny it, because i usually say time here. yes, people and i believe that they do. today, i, too, i remember the 91st very well a year and what happened even before that, he also got a beard, he already has strength, and hey, i remember that there people did not choose to go out on the ninth of may,

of course, they forgot on may 9 from the demonstration, even this was all the radio, there was not enough of the first may there were demonstrations on november 7, it seems like november, it seems like there were no parades on the 9th, there were also demonstrations, but there are fewer, but there are simply . in my opinion, on 45 yes it is on the 85th so it was simple in the 90s, but today we look at what happened in moscow. well, they officially report that there are up to a million people on this day . i was in turkmenistan. i saw how young people are taken out in the same clothes and they become such boxes by the thousands. and how and how scary authoritarianism looks. it's okay. but, but also, many people probably write of their own free will, so when we are here now to summarize our conversation .

about monuments and historical memory, first of all , it is very important. i understand that those people are a little boy who later fled to russia to become a sociologist . yanukovych was like that. do you remember us once with him, too? we argued, he said. you have your own symbols in you have bandera and ok, we can still put up with it, but you want to take away our symbols. and we don't have other symbols. the question is that those people who don't have other symbols, or at least these symbols are very important. ok, you can put up with those who today 35 this means that they are 50 years old in some sense, they still physically remain, but the question of whether they will be important for their children, their grandchildren, this is a question that should be asked simply , 30 years ago, you should have answered it well, at least today, although you know this part of us, how much a long time ago, well, 20 years ago. that's why i remember, i paid attention and it also annoyed me a lot when there were such

large transferees at some departures from kyiv and it was written that the condition of the brovar district is 80 years old. people that it was only 80 years ago that civilization began here. it is important that at the state level , at the level of education, and above all at the level of constant communication, we all understood that life in general and the history of ukraine is much longer than the history of the mother's family, who has been there for 40 years and is it even the history after the second world war, because all the soviet propaganda, i remember it very well, it built such a concept that everything started after 45, before 45 there were some processes. well, the second, third, and that's all it began before 1945, and in fact the entire surrounding world was compressed in this short period of time, and we inherited it in the perception of the ukrainians of kyiv, including the people of lviv

. this should not be debated about may 8-9, we had a lot of victories, there were defeats that also need to be remembered because people died for the interests of the people of ukraine for the will of this land, there was a lot of everything i always offered, i still remember, for example, there 9 celebrate in december in kyiv, because this is the day of the fall of kyiv from the mongols, and all our problems started from that, if we do not remember this, it will be very difficult for us to understand this whole picture at all. on the public a little more already er and for sure you promise we will go further er there and there is a museum er museum of television so as far as this is the first television was in ukraine this is what they have this no no this is pencils yes on then melnyk is 42 now and some other name is chornovola

no illinka illenka illenka yes and actually, actually , i always had such a complex feeling about this, that is, on the one hand , this museum is interesting, but on the other hand, i don't understand how to explain it. recently, the head of the radio wrote a post e- on facebook, in principle, i completely understand the emotion and so on, but he, he is very interesting, here he wrote, here we are now sitting in warehouses and running from a bomb shelter, but we can't break it cleanly. we have been here since the 24th year. we have been working since 1900. that's it. our radio and we were then under bombs and now under bombs and here it seems that on the one hand it sounds good, russian evil, here everything is mixed up, rashists, fascists, communists, nationalists, ukrainians, russians, and the elephant is porridge. the question is: do we want to be

, or do we think it’s ok, or are we proud of it, proud of what we have there was no freedom of speech at all, and we didn’t have our own radio, it didn’t exist because it wasn’t ukrainian. even if it was called ukrainian radio, we also need to somehow understand that unfortunately or fortunately for ukrainians. no one disputes this, but on the other hand, exactly as ukrainians and exactly as ukraine, we literally started probably somewhere in the year 14 and are happening right now. has been going on for more than 100 years, starting there in the 17th year, we understand it in order to put everything in order, all complicated things need smart people, we need fathers of the nation who are able to accumulate it all, publish nagor, politicians, journalists have to support it, because we all 30 years of recent

history of ukraine are categorically missing, what is called one voice, and the policy of one voice, so that you and i, all the opinion leaders, those who communicate more with people , told the story in the same way as possible, the history of humanity - this is telling stories, by the way , the vast majority of people in in all countries, in ukraine, in poland, in america, where at the factory, they are busy with their routine problems 90% of the time, and this is natural, they earn money, they raise children, they walk the dog, they love each other they deal with it alone, but there must be leaders who, including, must bring order to these issues, and we certainly had a son, and it remains a big problem, and it will be one of the challenges of rebuilding ukraine. because that's how i believe in our victory. so it will probably be even faster than it seems, but ukrainian reconstruction is not just the reconstruction of the infrastructure, we need to completely put things in order with all these ideological narratives

, because the key issue, as it was and remains, is identification. we have everyone from lviv to luhansk to clearly understand who we are. this problem has existed for decades. it still remains when you show a story about the park of glory in the city of kyiv. this is not 10. the city of kyiv is pechersk. there, people answer very differently to many worldview questions. they are not to blame. people should work and this is a task for decades to come, but it is important that the government realizes this, because it depends only on the leaders, so they actually realized that as in the army finally there were hard-working competent officers, the same should be the case with the culture of the culture no less more important than the army. and in information policy , information policy is not propaganda and not the statement of the authorities. i hope that they will understand it. well, let's read

a little bit of news. our story is such a story to listen to i just can't work in this chat room so much is thrown here that it's unrealistic to single out something from it is important what not okay and during the current day, on may 9, a serviceman in the united forces successfully repelled 15 enemy tanks thanks to skillful actions and skill, our soldiers inflicted losses on the russian invaders, in particular, the ukrainian defenders destroyed a missile complex, nine tanks, three artillery systems, 25 units of combat armored vehicles, three units of special engineering equipment and three enemy vehicles, and also shot down another orlan-10 the russians fired at the village of hannivka in the kryvyi rih district. well, things like that. in irpen

, gas supply has already been restored by 66%. i don't understand our kyrylo tymoshenko at all, this reports that there is no city government of its own in irpen, well, it is obvious that i want to, too, yes, well, less, but you read this so calmly, well, this is probably news of some kind , yes. now we have entered a very dangerous stage of a war of a war. and this is such a feeling of routine they burned three tanks, killed something there, that's it, that's all and it's extremely dangerous, why wouldn't there be this habituation effect, what is it, well, it's self- explanatory. shock yes, there is no such panicky perception of this armageddon because there were the first days of bombings there, i do not know kyiv kharkiv well, it was difficult to perceive in general, it did not happen anywhere and there were terrible battles, now terrible questions