x own believers, whom they practically brought to the state to which putin's propaganda brought the citizens of russia to that very state, and this is not an exaggeration. they talked for a long time about the fact that autocephaly is terrible and impossible for ukrainians, did they tell them that the schismatics, these rotting kyiv patriarchates, are generally a little bit of the devil’s line, so to speak, with a human face everything will disappear and burn, where they are fiery and so on, yes, they talked about the fact that only in unity with the russian orthodox church in the yucanonic true salvation and so on and so on and now we see these results, but the problem is that you understand if those who

adhered to the views of eh let's say so eh political eh friendly eh of russia two months ago they absolutely saw today and understood yes. because you understand even political views. you know how painful it is for people to change and admit their political mistakes . idiots yes and here is the situation, what is this worldview, this faith is the church - it is a mediator between a person and god, and it is much more difficult to admit that you went to that church all your life than to admit that you went to a political party and a region , that's why ah and now we see that uh, despite the fact that

, in my opinion, everyone clearly understood that the uoc of the moscow patriarchate is a branch of the fsb in ukraine. admit their own spiritual mistakes because these mistakes are the basis of the first view, so you have to work with them with a believer, i mean. and as for the official ones. i agree with you that everyone has already understood in their heads that these are criminals, i saw it myself recently because i wrote a post about the orthodox church of the moscow patriarchate in ukraine, that is, the russian church in ukraine, they are criminals, i wrote that and gave examples when the priest of this church was corrected fire when

russian soldiers were not hiding in their houses when they pray for cyril and cyril consecrates tanks and weapons and cyril justifies the war in ukraine, you call to fight against ukraine and so on i'm telling you that we have nazis here, and people started writing to me, believers of the moscow patriarchate, that and we did n't know, where did you get it? and where did the information come from? fight in the same way as the political forces fight in the same way for these orthodox people, it is necessary to fight, and first of all, it is necessary to fight, even if we are not proud to fight against the young orthodox church of ukraine, what is more, it is necessary to fight actively. the wise will fall into their hands, here it is necessary to conduct an active , permanent, systematic policy that will

show that in the end all the world orthodoxy, led by the ecumenical patriarch bartholomew, is united and supports ukraine, but the russian orthodox church is practically even in the orthodox world already isolated in spiritual isolation in the same way as there is an economic blockade, so there is a certain spiritual blockade, and in general, the problem is that this is a claim to independence from the orthodox mainstream of the ecumenical tax and existence, now it is bearing fruit for the rpc and , accordingly, it is necessary to constantly talk about it, it is necessary to constantly tell the believers that after receiving the tomos, after autocephaly, there is a church that

you can come to. that place. where can you go and the alternative, uh, people didn't have, you know, this word, the rpc has discredited itself, even if you say so , despite the fact that they are now, these are their applications, what are they doing? statements and er, in general, the assessment of indonat is absolutely fair and it turns out so that er, nevertheless, it is necessary to show the believer where he should go, that he is waiting for him here, that he will not be alone, that these are some kind of underground people, propagandists, and andrii illenko should be given the floor deputy but he has a question for him, undoubtedly a former deputy of the verkhovna rada, the question for him is already a practical one. and you think it is right, as do many others. they think it is simple

to ban this church, while other people say the opposite. society cannot forbid something, it is necessary to gradually create conditions that will lead to the simple destruction of this church in the future - the destruction itself, let's say so, and the transfer of the faithful to the orthodox church of ukraine, what to do? maybe another time of war to ban, as some communities do. well, you know er, this discussion in ukraine is in one way or another, where even in the 14th year, yes, and even i would say from the 91st year and concerns not only the moscow church, but also many other things there about moscow parties on different ones about the moscow media and so on. and all the time there is a similar argument that, well, we ca n't. well, how can we? well, that's wrong, democracy, and so on. well, we understand very well that

this is the situation in which ukraine found itself in 14 year, when russia began the first stage of aggression, and in the end, what began on february 24 of this year, also had its roots in the destructive activity of the moscow agency in ukraine for decades, and the moscow church played a great role and continues to play a huge role, unfortunately. in this moral, ideological, political preparation for russian aggression, and it seems to me that certain discussions on this topic were meaningless to me anyway, because i believe that the russian church could not exist in ukraine after the 14th year, legally in ukraine, no well, but discussions continued . but after february 24, do you think that this is such a discussion? i am just a manipulation, that is, in the conditions of a full-scale war, in the conditions of wartime, the organization, the structure that is directly managed with

the aggressor state, the organization, the structure of which manages a maniac and a warmonger who calls himself patriarch kirill, a citizen of russia, gundyaev cannot exist in ukraine, respectively , the leadership of the russian orthodox church in ukraine, they are its bishops of the russian orthodox church, they are simply subordinates to this, that is gundyaev, who actually is today the right hand of putin, who today is responsible for ideological work in the russian federation, who is directly in favor of killing ukrainians and directly calls for genocide. i believe that it is necessary to make drastic decisions and that is why people's deputy from svoboda oksana savchuk registered in the parliament not so long ago a bill which is exactly what it is called about banning the activities of the moscow patriarchate in ukraine eh, actually you understand you can always find a reason not to do it but i think that the sum of these facts. she simply already finishes any doubts, that is, except for that moment in

connection with and subordination to the russian church. well, you just have to remember how much damage she caused , this is all anti-ukrainian propaganda, this is all these things about the fact that god does not understand the ukrainian language, uh, in the end, let's just remember that back in the 14th year , where the russian occupiers came, where these separatist movements inspired by russia began, they relied on the moscow patriarchate. now we see the same thing in the occupied territories of the pope the moscow patriarchate immediately becomes about the occupation regime, and we see that, in no church, in any denomination, be it christian denominations or any other, there is not a single collaborator and there is not a single gunner of the enemy there is no fire. who would have weapons in the church or, er, enemies, er, intelligence, sabotage groups , in the case of the moscow church, we see this massively, and here the state must react, it is simply an act of self-defense, of course, it is not, there is no

mass repression everything should be civilized , i.e. the church - this is us mr. andriyu look at what you say i was just talking about this with ms. oksana and others and health says that she is a little sick we were waiting for her here on the air are you recovering ms. oksana but i was talking she says to ban, but which one technology well, technology, the full council says ban it, what does it mean, tomorrow poles will go to the lavra and be expelled, yes, how should it look literally? yes, literally, it should look like this, all the property that belongs to these governing structures should be nationalized . and exactly how it should be according to the law, because they are illegally in the use of the moscow patriarchate, they just have to be on top of it, it is state property and it must be returned to state property, well, the police, of course,

why the problem? well, when someone sits in an apartment, the illegal owner of something, the police come and return the legal owner, what is the problem? i think that in fact it is elementary to do the second thing in relation to communities and in relation to parishes, they are given by law, if this law is adopted, 14 days on that they decide, they join some other ukrainian church, or they self-dissolve, their property is transferred to the property of local communities. of the orthodox church of ukraine, who does not want to, well, his property will be in the local community and all kinds of problems , that is, it seems to me that this issue is already so overdue that it even has to be done, as artem semenikhin in konotop, the mayor of konotop, a libertarian, well , actually, the topsk city council made a corresponding decision in brovary they already have a corresponding decision on defense activity in the lviv region, there are many similar decisions, that is, if the state will not make a decision, then the local self-government will defend itself, because it is easy to tolerate these

mr. andrii's violation, ms. iryna, do you agree with such and such an option, which we just discussed with mr. andrii. allow me to make some remarks . - firstly, these actions in konotop and brovary still want it or not, we support them , but in principle, the fifth activity of a religious organization, according to the laws of ukraine, cannot be called the administration of the city - it should be done anyway from above, at the level of state power, not self-government. but i really like the positions expressed by the civil service of ukraine out of common policy and freedom of conscience, yes, they

absolutely clearly analyzed this statement of the synod of the ukrainian orthodox church, and they showed that i rely on the constitution and by-laws acts yes, these are the statements of the official body of the synod, they are considered anti-constitutional against you, and they incite a religious rift, and they call for a split in the society, so to speak, and this is typical the official state government to close them, and this is as it is said absolutely within the framework of the constitution, because those who incite the religious mind and here it is exactly so when the official church is called the so-called yes well, what is this wording , this is already an insult to the same believers and orthodox brothers for a minute and so on, and so on. and if you analyze this document, there are a lot of reasons to close them, so

lawyers should work here, it is not even necessary to accept this one. the law that is under consideration in the upper council already has a reason behind the structural activity, it is absolutely clear that they should be closed. i have not yet heard such answers from the speakers to the questions to both of you, mrs. irina, you said that how to persuade people of faith , i do not know good sense on the part of the orthodox church of ukraine, it is necessary for the church itself to voice certain important theses in this way, it really depends on each priest, but look , they have to reach this church, and how to make them reach, well, vopros takoy, in general, let’s say so uh, the mass media now work as a united front in our country. and if uh, the priests of the orthodox church of ukraine turn to the media, i

think there will be no problems for them, they will find air time for them to explain, they uh, they just have to use the media yes they should use their parishes again , because we are visible priests actively work at the front and do not provide humanitarian aid, they should say to agitate to agitate with their example and constantly the proposer says that too there is a practical church - this is done but this work needs to be increased expressions and then the results will be uh-uh your reflection uh-uh in my opinion uh-uh communication in different situations in different circumstances with parishioners and the moscow patriarchate there is of course a percentage of ideological there of some it's just ukrainophobia, let alone the morass, but still, the absolute majority are people who are not ukraine -phobes, and they are not ideological anti-ukrainians , and what's more, many of them do not even know , in fact, do not understand that he goes to the moscow church

because the ukrainian orthodox church is written there on the sign, the moscow patriarchate is not written there, and they don't think about it in principle, they go to the church that is in their village or next to their house, so i don't see a big problem in working with these people, it's just normal enlightenment is an elementary explanation of elementary things. i am sure that there will be no mass resistance, no mass, let's say, speeches for gundyaev or for the russian church. that is, yes, there is a certain percentage of marginal people there. the leadership of this church is the leadership, it will never be constructive. the leadership will be loyal to gundyaev until the end . they are all fsbshniki. they are all on the hook for all of them . into the orthodox church of ukraine absolutely and if it will be connected with a competent state policy if the state will not interfere with it as it was by the way, even in recent years you will

remember that the transitions they stopped in the orthodox there are many supporters of the moscow church sitting in the church, including in the offices of the authorities, so if this moscow lobby does not exist, i hope that it will no longer exist, then there will be no problems, and i am sure that this is andrii illenko, a deputy of the previous convocations of the verkhovna rada, irina bogachevska, a philosopher and religious studies doctor of philosophy scientists who were with us. thank you very much. by the way, i have a question, as we promised , about the church or not? referendum on unification with russia. what are your thoughts on this, why now and why is georgia reacting? only with statements, well, we just spoke indirectly, yes, because georgia, well, twice came under very dense

physical fire from the russian federation and lost several encounters. therefore, they are more careful in - firstly, and secondly, what do i think? i think that there will be a referendum, they will unite, north ossetia will be very poor, it was like in transnistria , many people will go from there, as a result, they will not have anything like that, or would it be possible to be proud, but after the referendum, the kremlin will immediately forget about her, and there will be no significant infusions of money, as long as they are quasi -independent, russia will be fueled somehow, a little money, give something, they can listen to someone, there are some people there, there are people from assyt, you have to listen to him, but after they become well look at luhansk at donetsk they have healed well after we said to ukraine something i

don't see there, you know yes yes, i choose what questions anzhelika excuse me please yes, that's about it let's talk about the role of china in russian-ukrainian relations. what is it? yes, there is no role there, first of all, this is such an exaggeration, but china simply has its own bells and whistles. because he has to be re-elected at the end of the year, he has already changed the party's charter to what is possible from the day of this pin, who once said that it is necessary to be elected twice in a row, you can be elected for 5.5 years, that is, each leader is elected for 10 years, the newest leader, that is, he is not the newest leader at all, those from izi said that well, i will be re-elected after 10 years, and in fact he wants to create something similar to putin, that is, to be re-elected constantly

, constantly, constantly, well, this is a conditional election, this is an election at the level of the central committee of the communist party of china, this is not a general election, as in ukraine or america, they elect a president a or a party, as in germany, and she nominates his chancellor, that's why he will be very careful, he will be very sisinpin, don't force anything, don't have a scandal anywhere, politics in china is anti-scandal, they really don't like scandals , and now that he sees that all the countries have united around ukraine against russia, it is not very convenient for him to take the side of russia to attack taiwan. well, which they consider the territory of the people's republic of china, it is also not very convenient, so i don't see any problems of such, so big, i think he

will help russia a little, somewhere a little bit of china and he does not help a little now in ukraine humanitarianly, he does not give weapons, but humanitarianly he helps something there, some organizations create and help in one way or another, but the main thing now for the leaders of china is silence, calm look no one well, they definitely hear that they are hiding because the defeat of russia leaves china on its own at the end of the world when you have russia by your side, then you are like two great powers when it is one, it is not so easy for you . china still sees that russia is no longer as great as it was before the war with ukraine, both in terms of weapons and in terms of certain diplomatic influence, but still, we won here, let's not forget that we haven't won yet. when will the victory come? and i always said that i would would

they also satisfied a draw because sometimes a draw is equal to a victory, so let's wait, but the weakening of russia is definitely not in china's favor, obviously not in china's favor, and china will be very careful and behave like this. by the way, today i think it's good that the audience reminded me. and i will see what they write there about how they evaluate the ukrainian issue, there was another interesting piece of news that was announced today on the air that the former ambassador of ukraine, yes , no, the ambassador of china to ukraine, rather, he said no i remember chesny's last name - you'll have to look to find it, it's hard enough from 2005 to 2007. i remember that he was there. he said in one interview that "ukraine

will win" will definitely lose because of this invasion, and there was also a statement by a certain scientist about this, and they say that this means that certain discussions are being held at the top of china about how to treat a full-scale war of russia against ukraine, well, officially, no one says anything, officially, at first they said that china, as it were supported russia, and then already sometime in march , they started being very, very loud, persistent, that china was shocked, he did not expect such, yes, such behavior of russia, and in china, if, well, in general, in the whole world, predictability is in the first place, not that you are good, but that you can to be very bad but predictable and when you are even bad predicted we would know what to expect from you like this with china from china therefore looks at russia as a

completely unpredictable partner what can we have from him when he can duck something tomorrow they will take it, they will not do anything, they will sit quietly and wait how this whole puzzle will come together or be sorted out, where will russia be, where is ukraine, where is europe, where are the connected pants, the question is may 16 in moscow, a meeting of the leaders of the dcb was announced , including a meeting with putin lukashenko is planned is there a possibility that other troops will be involved in the war from ukraine? well, you understand. i would say that, first of all, there is always a possibility, but i am not convinced that it will benefit russia, because you understand that different troops must train to understand each other . on the field, there is not just some kind of abstraction. and it takes a lot of different maneuvers for me to understand how they work. my colleague on the right is on the left. how is this

combat coordination? it seems to me to be in russian , that’s what it’s called, and even if they come , i always spoke. by the way, belarus introduced the troops here, no matter how cynical and disgusting you look, this is my position, but when you have a front and there is a weak point, it is obvious that the belarusian troops are weak, then it is very beneficial for those who stand on this side of the generals, because then they they concentrate their blows precisely on weak points and can go into the environment, then there is its own specificity. romanians and magyars stood on the flanks, and the soviet

generals or marshals understood where to hit and made a huge encirclement because they knew that there were weak forces, we will take odesa, which we talked about today, they could not take odesa for three months during the second world war why because the same romania magyars stood near odesa as soon as the germans came they immediately took odesa that's why when you see as a general that there is a weak point, you automatically understand how how to fight you how you how what is it called this is such a game, so i don’t see any options at all, but it’s clear , ah, belarusians, i don’t believe in armenians, armenians can be azerbaijan, then they have kyrgyzstan, then they have kyrgyzstan, yes, kyrgyzstan , a very small army, and there is also

tajikistan, which is next to afghanistan narco-trafficking means these people who are in power over there are shorter there is a headache there is the 102 army er 42 russian division but i don’t see that they can transfer it here because then they will simply bleed the entire border and it will be very easy to cross border by some kind of mujahideen, that's why i have a big doubt in general, very big kazakhstan has already stood up for ukrainian independence and territorial integrity 25 times, and i don't see where i would change my point of view and send more of its troops to kazakhstan, god willing thank you for your support, let's ask one more question , we'll make it in time, in principle, you can't say that some nations are better than others, but why do the russians do everything like that, stupidly, this is a quote, they simply ask

for the names of a backward nation, to the same extent, a question arises regarding today's memorial day, it turns out that to save a righteous jew and to save others is so valuable and important, some special value emerges here, although many other people by nationality died at the time, listen, you know, i once spoke of a fish as a flea, this is the main fish of kyiv and ukraine. we have very good relations, and i say fish, why are you chosen for this, and all the rest of us, what is this? and he says, we will not forbid anyone. if tomorrow the ukrainians say that we are also chosen for this, we will not be, please, so listen, the jews said that we were destroyed by 6 million people, and this is ours great grief and we suggest that everyone mark this grief. if tomorrow the ukrainians say that, the day after tomorrow, the poles say that, the day after tomorrow, someone else will say that, then i don't

think that the jews will say that. and i, i. jewish age you save a person, you can even on saturday, you have the right to save a person of any nationality, not necessarily because one of the versions of the appearance of the phrase z/d bandera people is just one person i know, he is really a jew who fought in in the gas sector, then he returned here, he was on the maidan , he was on the eve of the 11th year, and he is the deputy of the ribs according to kashrut , that is, when can you eat? and on saturday you can't fight, he says no no we have it written i say wait so you should save only jews he says no no no we don't have such a thing

we save everyone yes well that's why well, if the ukrainians didn't want to identify those who saved ukrainians , there were probably such people by the way, there were probably such people among the germans during the second world war, how was he rescued? but my father still has time, literally 30 seconds. my father walked across the bridge in the year 45 and canada was already soviet, and a german was walking in front of them, and he and his comrades were walking and beating the germans from the second fulfilled finally our will come and here suddenly the german officer returns and in a dirty russian language they say, boys , get away from here, it’s good that they aimed at me on the second, i would have shot him right here on the bridge and i would have forgotten so that different people yes, in different nations thank you very much, he knows the colors of september, as always, professional, expertly answers all your