a component of this victory is your love for us , a strong front and a strong rear, only victory, only forward. glory to ukraine, they were not afraid of the shelling , did not run from the hail, instead of saving their own lives, they returned again and again to the burning house for the priceless works of maria priymachenko, when a russian shell hit museum guard anatoly kharitonov, together with his wife and fellow villagers, rushed to the building of the historical and local history museum in the village of ivankiv in the kyiv region to save the unique collection and preserve it for the country for them, it was more important than their own security ukrainians , a nation of heroes, witnessed economic crimes , learned about the illegal use of budget funds, encountered obstacles to business, write

to the bureau of economic security, everything is done, bot, we will save the economy, together, we will overcome it, we will overcome it, we will win, together we will win the news, together we will intercept, we will outplay the vortex , we can, together, we are strong unconquered cities of ukraine, our shipping capital is known for its moorings, bridges and happy brides, the glorious earth at the confluence ingulu and the bus estuary have long been closely connected with zaporizhzhya cossacks and for centuries formed a free ukrainian spirit to fight. the city named after the patron saint of sailors , st. nicholas, has always courageously fought against enslavement. as during the second world war, hitler's troops shamefully fled from mykolaiv, the same fate

awaits and on other occupiers who are now encroaching on the glorious ship shrine, despite the constant shelling of mykolaiv, the cordon is spreading for the victory of ukraine. invincible mykolaiv, now we ukrainians are not we say strong as the steppe. we say strong, which remains the same. it is much stronger. azovstal today is a fortress, a symbol of a bastion. the occupier will break his teeth here more than once, but he will never be able to destroy the walls, but he will never break the spirit. to the enemy, and like a phoenix from the ashes, we will be reborn without

sparing either strength, time, or resources. that's how we in ukraine now don't say strong like steel, we say strong like azovsteel. life will win every day, every moment. even war has a place. it's a wonder that touching inspires and gives strength to believe in our victory good we appreciate every moment wonderful happens there you have to find it for yourself

congratulations friends on the air one plus one the national telethon continues with you the design guard and in the studio work natalya ostrovska evgeny kuksyn stas yasynskyi and i evgeny plinskyi let's talk friends, today is about the blue dream of every ukrainian , that after our victory in ukraine, there will definitely never be corruption, officials will not take bribes, law enforcement officers will not make business a nightmare, and judges will make only fair decisions i want to believe but why exactly today we have to talk about it? well, because the servants of the people decided to punish corrupt officials with life imprisonment in the verkhovna rada, its number 7348 is registered in the draft law, which officials who invent illegal assets worth more than 110 thousand hryvnias will be threatened with confiscation of property the ban on

holding positions and the sentence from 15 years to life , that is, the servants of the people propose to equate corruption with treason, not that i am against this draft law, but i believe that with ukrainian by corrupt people, only one law was stolen , convicted, killed, and such an experience exists in china. how do you know about these dingbins since 2000? they shot 10,000 officials there, they were sentenced to death and shot. and here you see the most famous story of the accused mayor sujunze, he stole 15 million dollars of budget money and was sentenced to death, there is also another high-profile story - this is an anti-record man corruption stories of china, vice-premiers, vice-mayor of the city of liulian, the accused zhang dongchen, he abused his official position and appropriated state property

for 155 million dollars and the prison workers talk about the fact that the accused cry a few days before the execution and behave psychologically inappropriately. well, we can understand why. and now i will ask you to show another diagram of how they are trying to fight corruption at the state level in china there is such a party commission for the inspection of discipline and a national supervision committee, they make sure that budget money is not stolen. gifts and state transport are the most stolen from the awards. such privileges, that is, i think that these authors of the draft law that zhenya spoke about. they also looked at the chinese example. yes, and that they thought up something. but it seems to me that it is clear for whom our minister of justice has been building paid cameras all these years, you understand, for life, but you have to sit and work i think that this will not do anything. well

, now i will simply explain why. but we have a good anti-corruption legislation, everyone admits that it is normal. we have created a huge pile of anti-corruption bodies, the same in principle not bad, but the laws do not work, let's say we have a wonderful law on corruption whistleblowers, this is according to this law, actually, journalists like us are also whistleblowers, we can receive monetary bonuses if criminal cases were brought to court based on our investigations there were convictions, and then the money was actually returned to my budget. by the way, there was a personal example. i was investigating at the beginning of the coronavirus crisis how medical masks were illegally exported from ukraine. this was done by a chinese businessman, entrepreneur, it was an interesting investigation, the law enforcement officers responded to it , conducted an investigation, and the general prosecutor's office reported that thanks to this investigation

, they received a return to the budget of a huge amount of money, and when i saw this news, i contacted a lawyer. listen, i say, let's go according to this law about corruption whistleblowers, let's try to get it, let's check how it works and try to get my legal remuneration. he said that we will not even waste your time, because even if we prove that it is thanks to you, there is simply no money for this in the budget . well, there is no money, they are not planned. that is why it will not work. there are journalists i know who could become billionaires under this law. he works, there is an american example when a swiss banker received the highest reward of 105 million dollars, that is, he exposed a scheme according to which one of the financial institutions gave americans preferences for not paying taxes, but this is a practical

story. it seems to me that this is an isolated case, but such hundreds of cases, that is, smaller sums, the number of law enforcement structures that exist in ukraine and the number of corrupt people, and in general. well, we see there . dozens of journalists have already built their careers on the exposed corruption schemes of abuse of office , but i apologize, let's continue to exist at any level refer to the facts and figures like this. if we take the report of the national anti-corruption bureau for 2021, the figures show that the number of persons in respect of whom the guilty verdict of the court regarding their of criminal offenses is 16 people, that is, out of 45 million ukraine, since we have we have 16, well, let's name the guilty corruptors per year, it should be shot but i apologize for 16 people, well, that is, guilty of corruption, is it a lot or, on the contrary, is it that we are not perfect enough does the system work or is

there no corruption in our country? what will 16 people discuss? what percentage of cases are brought to court? are analyzing the legislation and i think that maybe he will help to understand what it is and why it works . that's right. i congratulate andriyya. good evening. andriy. please tell me why this statistic, which zhenya read, what does it indicate? and what is wrong with our law enforcement structures or legislation in general and what is wrong with it at all if we say that there are many law enforcement structures and there are some sentences, but corruption as it was also remains in place regardless of what events are happening in the country well, first of all, we understand that those criminal cases that actually become criminal

cases, this is only a small part of what should be recorded, yes, because it is, well, objectively , it is corruption in all countries - it is a latent crime , that is, it is hidden and here you have to try very hard to discover it. well, let's say discovered yes, we have uh, as you said, there are a lot of bodies and they have been added in recent years and more yes and then we understand that it is necessary to conduct an investigation, the burden on investigators is very high and sometimes the quality of these investigations is very low and and then this is necessary transfer to the court, the court must also self-examine the burden on the judges, again, it is very large. i am now illustrating everything correctly with numbers, and then when the judge makes a decision, this is another stage at which it is formed, miracles actually happen to us. and if we analyze, i took there are only a few

types of crimes that can be attributed well, to the so-called corrupt ones, this is the abuse of power, this is the excess of power, illegal enrichment, receiving bribes and giving bribes, and then we will see that for the past year, uh, it was calculated like this general prosecutor's office it is called that is, these are criminal cases that have been investigated, there is no child, cases that have already been closed at the investigation stage are counted, 8.5 thousand of them have been charged, only about 1,700, that is, less than 20%, only a person is actually suspected that is, they accuse her of committing a crime, and even fewer cases come to court. and if we see, let's look at the

decisions made by the court, then we will see, first of all, that there are very few of these sentences, 954 were handed down last year that is, at each stage, this one the number is decreasing, we understand that judges are sometimes not even able to consider them, and then if you look at the decisions the court made, we see that only 27 people received a real term, that is, a real term of imprisonment, that is 3%. and 95% of convicts generally received only a fine. well, i understand that there are also sanctions for some crimes . why is it possible to apply a fine? you can limit the freedom of imprisonment and so on, but even for those articles where the only thing is possible the court's decision is er, well, imprisonment. well, it's all up to the judge

they somehow manage to mitigate this punishment, they replace it with a suspended sentence, or they can replace imprisonment with another type of punishment . the criminal code. normal practice, it exists in many countries , because the decision, well, it must take into account the extenuating circumstances in itself, yes, it is aggravating, and in the same way, that is, this fork. it is specially made for so that the decision was on as close as possible to the circumstances of the case, in fact, what i want to clarify is that the people are actually friends of the society. what is interesting to people that

corruption in the country should decrease every year ? the government there is constantly telling us that we have a new law enforcement agency and that in this segment yes, for example, they created an economic security bureau there, now there will be no abuses here, but we see that we looked at this new bureau from the old security service of ukraine, a department of ukraine that moved from the economic, which creates a conflict with by other power structures, why is it not possible to explain statistics, statistics, they are very eloquent, yes, 27 imprisonments per year, uh, on the whole list of corruption abuses, but we know, uh, even on the example of journalistic investigations, hundreds of employees of state structures there they are accused and uh, well, illegal enrichment was discovered in them, why is this uh, well, such a deformation of society's expectations and the real picture on paper of the final result ah,

let's figure out what we generally understand by corruption, i would divide it into four parts , firstly, these are corrupt conditions. yes, a public servant can really be in corrupt er or corruptionogenic conditions, low salary, there are also some conditions, yes, which er encourage him to seek some illegal earnings and the second point is the er corruption possibilities, these are the discretionary powers that allow the official to act either in this way or in this way, and also when there is weak control and responsibility, he will definitely act in such a way as he profitable a-

a. actually the consequences of corruption , i.e. the receipt of an illegal reward a-a the receipt of illegal funds of some kind, illegal enrichment, what comes out next gave what we see a a certain way of life a-a there is a luxury segment and everything else, so this is what we understand by corruption and it seems to me that the fight against corruption, apart from criminal cases through court and punishment , should be started precisely in this segment of corruption opportunities, where the official has the opportunity to act in this way, let's say contrary to the interests of the state . yes, until now, well, we almost don’t have it in

ukraine, uh, for officials, where there is no possibility of corruption, starting from there, uh, the state water agency. structures that, it would seem, do not generate any money, yes, none. well, in projects that allowed them to earn money, they themselves become a part of this big corruption machine. well, what about the message that their salary how do they steal? do you agree with him or not? and it seems to me that no matter what salary is set at 100-200-300 thousand, he will still steal if he is such a person, you just understand. for example, i don't know. my favorite topic is kyiv park. it's that simple. all of us we know that kyivzelenbud has such a utility the company is like that, they have you understand, i am analyzing the prices, so what is kyivzelenbud, this is an office that is

responsible for repairing parks in the city of kyiv, everything seems so simple, in order to repair a park, what do you need, you need somewhere to take sand, somewhere, concrete, somewhere soil and for example, kyivzelenbud buys sand there, the markup there is 200%. well, do you have any idea what a 200% markup is? so when you buy that sand by the tons, then this matter again comes to the nabu there. the national police investigates and so on, officials from which level come it will be everywhere, friends say. look, we would give you the documents. yes, but such a story of glass happened that we took them to the basement for storage, and in the basement it went and everything flooded in the basement, all the documents disappeared, you understand, and everything. so we can't do anything further because we don't have contracts and documents . and in this example, you understand that no matter what the salary is, it's a temptation. there should be, you don't know, not a gingerbread in this case, in the

ukrainian case, namely a whip, what should you know that if you don't, god forbid, he will take something in a cup home, you will take it to yourself, so you will be responsible, you will have to answer yes and i can give you the reverse example lead what if the law enforcement officers will come to your apartment, put this cup on your nightstand and detain you, they will say that you have had it here for two weeks and you will fall under the natalki bill on execution for corruption. that is, there is a huge system of them. so what you they detained what they showed in handcuffs for the whole country. this does not mean that you will be. well, it's good there. you will spend a little time in the pre-trial detention center. in the worst case, you can get out on bail 15 minutes after your arrest. you understand, there would be money for this bail. let 's be honest, any yes, any kind of power structures in ukraine are part of a large political system and all appointments in any power structures in our country take place only with

political approval and this is, well, i don’t know, this is what they talk about all the time and this fact when we e there is a competition for some position of the head of some new law enforcement structure. yes, for example , the last bureau of economic security. and everyone knew within a month of the announcement of the competition that the winner would be vadim melnyk, the current head of the state fiscal service . everyone knew that the manager would be the same person , that is, when i think that we will strengthen responsibility and legislation, we come across the fact that at every stage from the moment of the beginning the investigation of the discovery of the facts of corruption until the moment of the court decision, there are many mo- stages when you can be released if you are involved in corruption or they can, on the contrary, tie you to

non-existent corruption in order to solve your political or there are other questions, such is the story of andrii. by the way, regarding the strengthening of yevgeny , there is already such a category of people's deputies, yes, the initiator of bills, i call them amplifiers, because there are already more than 70 bills in the verkhovna rada, which there is provision for increased criminal liability, what does this mean, this means that some issue cannot or does not want to be resolved , that is, it is not resolved because somehow this s-this matter is covered up. in the mass media there after there after corruption will now be life imprisonment yes well it sounds or as mrs. natalya says yes for corruption

they will be shot, well super and a million views have already been secured in our country it does not work increased criminal responsibility does not work getting behind the bars doesn't do anything, they just let him out, then he starts stealing again. well, how to act, that is, from work, remember there was, er, such a bill, which means that the headlines were very, very bright, it meant for forgery of medicines, er, for life, so i figured it out, er- well, it turned out that during this period, in the year after that, after this law in ukraine regarding criminal liability, only two people were brought to justice for counterfeiting medicines there. the only condition there was especially large sizes. and there some people made very large antiseptics in size, that is, wash your hands and i got it there

, or conditionally, i don’t remember, or in my opinion, they even replaced imprisonment with a fine of 65,000 hryvnias , that is, it simply does not work here, and by the way, here is an example of china . it's also very interesting, because yes, they shoot 100,130 people a year there, 100,130 people are subject to this type of punishment, but they shoot every year, so it doesn't work , people aren't afraid, and you really showed the numbers. there really are millions. tens and hundreds of millions of dollars and we understand what the chinese are 23 million, the economy and the size of what can be stolen there, they are just crazy. we remember how some park is, to understand what it is for us, i am a good shooting, it starts from half a million dollars,

it seems like oh, this is how the shooting goes, and the delay goes on, so far there has been no call of this postponement, and with this name, i will be copying china, this may be an interesting scenario, but as experience shows, we need to find our own way, and i propose to add to our conversation fedir shulzhenko, head of the department theories of the history of law of the law institute of the kyiv university named after vadym hetman and er by joining our conversation er p fedir tell me please those initiatives that we discuss from year to year, and we understand that our expectations are that the war will end with our victory, that corruption will disappear, but we feel that as long as we

do not change something, nothing will happen. worse, what to change after the war, well, first of all dear colleagues i listened to you very carefully. i think that in all discussions it is not entirely appropriate to go down to some specific facts, such as the problem of corruption. must be excluded for corruption, the conditions for corruption were laid not now, the conditions for corruption were laid much earlier, the first problem is capital, which was and remains today in ukraine, a global problem in my opinion a view of understanding the essence of the state, the state, the

institution, the state, the corporation, the state, the institution, the state, the institution, is a totalitarian state, where corruption grows and everything else . no wonder, i analyze it so no wonder, in fact, the mechanism of the state remained the one with other names, see the state, the communist party, the leadership of the state, what changed came only the established institute president well, instead of the communist party , today we have the governing body - this is the state administration, that is, in 1992, but just

imagine where the foundations of corruption are we are talking about now, there was something else in kyiv, there was definitely a question, but look at uh, 92- year, we talk a lot about local self-government, about corruption at the lower level, and so on. in the 92nd year, hmm, by presidential decree , representatives of the president were created in the automobile city of crimea in the regions, and so on down to the next day in march the president has a decree on the transfer of property from local self-government bodies and the transfer to the state. well, then where did they get our state and local administrations? this is how the institute was created, which for many years stimulated corruption, created the conditions for the entire permit system, tax administration, business . everything was there, it was not completely broken. well, and

the attempts. well, i believe that the attempts under the previous president were of such a diplomatic, political nature, on her on the electorate and everything else reform of local self-government i am subject to criticism now as if something has started, but we have not overcome the shift of business and the power of politics, and this is a corrupt component of politics, corrupt political corruption, please excuse me, it started during the presidency of the honorable or not the honorable who is before him in selena kravchuk oh , i'm sorry, i'm sorry, coaches, when the parliament got involved in criminality, it started a little differently .

i'll beat you up. for a second, you're talking about big corruption, about the breakdown of business, there is no doubt about it, but even at the grassroots level, now there is a fuel crisis in ukraine. yes, there is no fuel. people in wartime are ready to buy a place in the queue at the gas station. people come to fill up. they say i won't be able to get there. let me approach the cashier so quietly and say, let me pay more. i'm ready to give any money if you just fill me up. i don't have a phone, there's nothing to do in hospitals, people go to kindergartens there they put their money in the schools and they create this corruption at the grassroots level, but you know this is a certain social contract between society and the government.