until the end of the summer that's all we have time for today more interesting more interesting stories about the war and not only search on our website bbc.ua - it's the 80th fourth day of the russian invasion take care glory to ukraine this is a verdict program my name is serhii rudenko everyone have a good day and good health today is the 84th day of the heroic resistance of the ukrainian people against the russian occupation, the russian invaders continue to launch rocket attacks on the civilian and military infrastructure of ukraine, while the russian occupiers are shelling the positions of the armed forces of ukraine on the eastern and southern fronts and in the depth of the

defense of our troops in the donetsk operational area and in the slavic direction of russia, the russians are taking measures to strengthen the offensive group . tactical position at the same time the russian occupiers continue to lose manpower and equipment as of the morning of may 17, the russians have already lost personnel on may 18 28,300 tanks 1,235 armored combat vehicles 3,0009 artillery systems 586 rocket launchers 199 anti-aircraft defenses 91 aircraft 202 helicopters 167 vehicles 2,137 units of

boats boats 13 drones 441 special equipment 43 units on the expansion of nato towards russia the fate of the defenders of azovstal and the course of the ukrainian -russian war, we are talking today with the analyst of the national institute of strategic studies, mykola bilyazkov, p mykola slava to ukraine congratulations you and thank you for taking part in our program. so, today finland and sweden in the nato apartment in brussels officially submitted applications for joining nato. now the countries have to agree on this application with the 30 allies in the north atlantic alliance according to the preliminary approval data this will take place during the year, at the same time the president is not rezepti and erdoğan said that he has certain reservations about the accession of finland and sweden to the alliance, in your opinion, how

quickly and whether finland and sweden will be able to join nato, taking into account the position of the horde and also to the situation in the north of europe, meaning on the border with the russian federation, although the russians say that it is not a problem for them that sweden and finland are joining nato in the plan, so you mentioned the year that it takes for all parliaments to ratify the accession, this is a year the term focuses on the last two countries that joined the north atlantic alliance , i.e. macedonia and montenegro, i.e. if there is a task, i think the parliaments of the member countries will ratify it faster and it will not be such a problem and it won't last for a year, that is, i think some procedure regarding turkey will be speeded up, their main claims relate to the presence of kurds in one way or another, this especially applies to sweden and

plus e-e sanctions that were imposed within the framework of the european union on turkey. i think there will be negotiations e- e at different levels, that is, these countries will negotiate with turkey, nato countries will negotiate with turkey, i think in the end there will be arguments, especially they will find some possible concessions in others issues that turkey is interested in, for example , the military and technical cooperation of this country, the united states, which will eventually withdraw its reservation. that is , we see an example when, accordingly, the country uses the situation that has developed in its favor , this will be some kind of bargaining, but i think it will end quite quickly - at the end of the e-e parliament, where the statehood of e-states is in the pants of nato, the relevant documents and sweden funding, they will become member states, even possibly in less than a year . by the republic of montenegro in northern macedonia, one of russia's demands for ukraine. during the last two and a half months, there was a demand to abandon the

euro-atlantic direction from joining nato, while russia, making sure that ukraine did not take steps to meet the north atlantic alliance, received two more countries in the north , finland and sweden, which they can potentially already become members of the north atlantic alliance, and ballistic missiles will fly packages from these countries to the same st. petersburg in a minute or maybe less and it is a much smaller distance than from kharkiv , for example, to moscow. how does the entry of the finns and swedes into nato differ from the entry of ukraine into nato in moscow's understanding? well, let's start with the fact that this is the argument that russia has been telling for years about nato in general and about ukraine's membership in nato - this is absolutely far-fetched rhetoric, that is, if you compare it with the reality that

took place, that is, yes, nato expanded, but it expanded politically, not militarily, that is, no one created even after the 14th year there a powerful military infrastructure in the new member states of central and eastern europe. even now, there could be much more nato contingents that have strengthened like this, but this is not at all the groupings that nato had, for example, the federal sculpture of germany when the active phase of the cold war about missiles was going on there, this is also completely far-fetched because that if nato wanted to drive , there was never such a need. because, unlike russia, nato does not live concentration for the sake of concentration, but hypothetically , if it were necessary, missiles could be placed in the baltic countries, but this was not really necessary, that is, nato was always expanding politically, the union was too defensive, did not seek concentration for the sake of confrontation, and it followed and delayed the provisions of the basic act of nato russia, even when russia already attacked ukraine in the 14th year and refrained from deploying missiles there weapons or the creation of significant conventional groups there, including aviation.

that is why all the rhetoric is far-fetched, in fact, in the case of sweden, finland, as opposed to ukraine this one shows how far-fetched this rhetoric is, because a paradox really emerges in the case of sweden, especially in finland. that is, it is not a story of concern for the kremlin, as we can see, it was declared at the highest level by vladimir putin, and in the case of the 16th of ukraine, it creates anxiety here and it makes e- the question is, what is behind this aggressive rhetoric? it was always behind aggressive rhetoric when it came to ukraine's membership in nato, and most likely, these are not the arguments that russia has always given about the teenage time about the expansion of russia's infrastructure, and still at the level of identity, it is difficult to accept that ukraine is a separate state that can independently implement its own security into politics, while this security policy has never been in line with the real russian interests, the real russian national interests, and not the fictional ones promoted there according to the kremlin, but

yes, once again, we have an example that by its actions, which were supposed to warn something, russia actually only speeds up the process. that is, it speeds up the process of how on the one hand neutral sweden, on the other hand, blocked in finland abandons this tradition and they will become members of nato, i have no doubt about this, despite the individual nuances from the turkish position, which were voiced in the same way, ukraine is increasingly increasing interaction with the alliance, we already see the transfer of heavy weapons, we see the statement of the same prime minister boris johnson, who says that we will be talking about an unprecedented level of transfer of material and technical assistance and training , data intelligence, that is, interoperability, that is, in fact, we are in in the future, we are going to follow the trajectory that finland and sweden took in finland, only faster, at first they had a high level of interoperability, powerful, and then they quickly took advantage of the opportunity to join us, that is, in fact, russia, under the stories of some phantom threat from

nato, well, on the contrary contributes to the expansion of nato and contributes to the fact that ukraine is getting closer to us at the level of such practical moments, the former minister of foreign affairs of ukraine pavlo klinikin called the submission of applications for the accession of finland and sweden the capitulation of the russian dictator to nato quotes p klimkin sweden and finland submitted applications to join nato for putin this is a capitulation he can say as much as he wants that there are no problems with their joining but he contradicts himself a few months ago russia demanded to return to the situation before 1997, i.e. before the accession of new members to nato, he also emphasized that putin wanted to make it too weak and made it stronger, so in this current situation, should ukraine once again clearly confirm its intention to join to the north atlantic alliance, of course, this norm is enshrined in the constitution, but in this

difficult situation that we are all in now , it is very important to once again confirm and articulate our desire to join the north atlantic alliance because, well, over the course of a month, there have been no statements from our side it was not about the fact that no, we will definitely be members of nato, and russia is constantly saying, well, listen, you have three of our ultimatums, so you should, in principle, fulfill them, then maybe you will have peace, sweden and finland, well, since 1945, finland has been in the status of a neutral state, and it seems to me that even in the biggest crises between the west and russia, or at least the soviet union, finland did not join nato, that is, for finland, this is also a new challenge. in the current conditions will it be correct if ukraine follows finland and sweden, well, at least

if it does not submit an application, it will declare its intention to join nato. opportunities for sweden, finland to join nato, well, this is one of the important factors, along with the fact that, for example, prices - it is such a unique european nation that continued to prepare for the great war in contrast to other continental countries after the end of the cold war, but another factor is that russia is really nothing now to threaten finland . that is, these are empty threats in the kremlin. in principle, it is clear that hypothetically there could be threats, but when you cannot confirm these threats, having the main potential concentrated around ukraine and there remains only nuclear threats, but this is a very equivalent thing, so there is nothing left. how to reconcile. although, on the other hand, the kremlin leadership, in principle, correctly calculated that since i, for example, finland has a fairly good powerful army that is capable of

countering a significant part of the russian forces, there is no need for nato to deploy additional forces, significant additional forces that threaten that, in principle, we have the following answer. but the main thing is that our viewers understand that ukraine also made an effort to a large extent, including thanks to us , this future phase will take place, the phase of expansion regarding our ambitions let's put it this way, the situation here is ambiguous. that is, we and the previous leadership of the country and the current leadership of the country, it talked about membership in nato, we can well let's not start a discussion, but one way or another it was said and we saw a certain restraint of the alliance on this issue, it is clear that this restraint is not positive, but on the other hand, i agree that there is no alternative to nato and i am convinced that the majority ukrainian society will not agree to any other course except the course of donat, which is the only

effective structure capable of solving certain tasks related to security. we have a new level of practical cooperation. that is, we are receiving heavy western nato weapons, we will master them. i think we are receiving even more western weapons, that is, the level of practical interoperability will increase. intelligence data, we have an unprecedented plus , we ourselves have gained significant military experience, which will be interesting to adopt, i.e. i am convinced that one way or another ukraine will get closer to nato, even in the context of the effective countermeasures of the russian federation, that is, receiving, mastering western weapons, establishing a new level of data exchange, gaining invaluable experience and uh, one way or another, this is a question uh. it won't just stand. on the agenda, it will increase more and more, especially when it comes to investments the reconstruction of ukraine, then the question will arise why

invest in ukraine and not guarantee these investments, therefore, the positions were, well, different elements are well understood in our rhetoric, but also in the positions of nato, unfortunately, 30 member countries have different positions, but as of today moment in my opinion. we have quite a good practical interaction, its trajectory is such that it increasingly leads us to future membership, and in addition to membership, i am convinced that the majority of the ukrainian population simply will not agree to any other option of guaranteeing long-term our security. by the way, regarding nato, ramzan kadyrov , the head of chechnya, says that russia is fighting on the territory of ukraine with nato countries and with the north atlantic alliance. over the past 80 days, we have heard different rhetoric from the leaders of the russian state, and kadyrov, too, i bet on this the number of leaders, or at least people who influence

public opinion, including they talked about various things, about the fact that they help the people and the so -called lpr and dpr, then they talked about the fact that they will now fight with leaders not in there will be nazis and this regime will clean up, referring to zelenskyi and his associates, then they said that they will fight with nato, then they said that the whole world is against us, kadyrov, putin and their troops who are now in ukraine, they are fighting for what not against whom, or it is clear what they are against, why they are fighting for their presence on our territory, in order to destroy our state so that it ceases to exist, or are they still looking for some logical explanation for their own audience, what are we saying? we will lose 80 days or let's put it this way blitz screamed it didn't work

, but listen, the whole nato bloc is opposing us there, actually, here is an interesting case when there is official rhetoric that has changed, that is evolving russian rhetoric - this is the truth and the other is the deep reasons if we say about the deep reasons, at least in the first stage of the war, in the first phase, which lasted until the end of march, russia's goal was to militarily destroy ukrainian statehood and conquer ukraine and actually return to the situation of the year 91 in other words, do you think putin should correct this mistake of 1991, because we remember this rhetoric, he actually put an equal sign between the russian empire and the soviet union, that is, in a military way, because it was not possible to conquer ukraine in an informational, energy, economic hybrid way. let us destroy the ukrainian military statehood. moreover, the russians have spent the last 12 years investing significant sums in military

equipment, modernizing the armed forces, and against the background of a lack of other tools, they decided to use the last, that is, the military the tool was therefore the goal really was the destruction of ukrainian statehood, it is clear that when we already foiled the original plan, we foiled the plan to seize kyiv, first of all, we received effective resistance in mykolaiv oblast, chernihiv oblast, kharkiv oblast, we were forced to modify our goals, reduce our goals. well, it is clear that the rhetoric has also changed, and yes, the russian leadership must somehow explain to its population why, indeed, they have been fighting for such a long time, but cannot, even with a reduction in scale, achieve any goals in the east of ukraine, that is, it will go to the administrative borders of the donetsk luhansk region to defeat our group there, that is why the rhetoric is changing so much in terms of the fact that we are not fighting against ukraine, we are fighting against nato, and even these stories about the fact that there will be too much fighting to the

last ukrainian -e against russia about the fact that ukraine is a kind of trojan horse run by a proxy, but in fact this is also an example when, er, if there are some declared goals , but er, a completely different reverse is obtained the result is because what was the rhetoric of the russians when they started this great war about the fact that it is necessary to destroy ukrainian statehood because ukrainian statehood is a tool against russia, we recall this article by putin and, in general, aggressive rhetoric towards ukrainian statehood, but in the end, they got the fact that the west is now ready to strengthen ukraine and the military financially to the point that russia does not represent a threat to ukraine and europe, but this is not about xiaomi support the basic principles of the world order about the inviolability of borders about the sovereignty of e-e which

are enshrined in the statute, that is, helping ukraine, the issues are not relaxed russia as such the weakening of russia is only a tool e-e to the main goal to renew the basic principles on which the world order rests and what if they are not defend these basic principles, then there will be no world order, there will be no order only in europe and there will be no order throughout the world, in fact, that is why the rhetoric is changing, and the goals are also decreasing, but even these goals are not can be reached by the russians in connection with the light resistance of the security and defense forces of ukraine. by the way, about ramzanov, there was a report from british intelligence that the cousin of the head of chechnya, ramzan kadyrov, adam delimkhanov, was probably the field commander of mariupol. it is noted that russia's attempts to capture the city were unsuccessful and led to to significant losses of personnel among the russian troops, at the same time, as the british claim, the forces that participated in the assault on mariupol included

units of the national guards who are usually engaged in the protection of the authorities kadyrova kadyrova personally supervised this deployment, friends, we are working live, please if you watch us on social networks, please like this video and also subscribe to our social networks on our youtube and also on our facebook read our news on the espresso tv website, here we are talking to you, mr. mykola, about the situation with nato and about the situation with russia, about what they are saying, how they are trying to interpret the current situation and the situation from the 80s days of the russian-ukrainian war, and at this time , putin's press secretary dmitry piskov says that the so-called special military operation is going according to plan, that the country is on the right path, then he will lead

us forward, let's listen to what piskov said about it, our president knows where you will lead our country we see what it is. well, this is called a political consensus. well, what level of support our president has is supported by the whole country. well, where is putin leading the country? i have my own version, but i will tell it after your answer at the current trajectories putin is leading his political regime to collapse in one way or another well, he is leading the russian federation to a crisis and possibly to a collapse, that is, russia has come under unprecedented restrictions, that is, in terms of the number of sanctions restrictions, russia is now number one in the world under technological limitations, respectively, i.e. there will be a

further lag economic technological e-e from other countries there will be a transformation into a large north korea and e-e let's say this is how the russians can calculate with the relevant realities russian the leadership understands that but even at a purely military level, that is, if we say that the operation is developing according to the plan, well, if there was a plan, first, to receive effective resistance, within the framework of the first phase, when there were maximalist goals, they received effective resistance, then they have reduced their ambitions to the south-east. they also receive effective resistance in the south-east. further, if they do not carry out mobilization and conduct on military lines, they will no longer have the strength to conduct offensive operations, even limited ones, they will have to transition to defense, how long will they be able to fund and receive all this is also an open question, so putin actually knows

that he accepted russia as quite weak after such a transitional period in the 90s, he believed that he had made it strongly but in essence he is just returning it to such a peak weakness and it is also about the crisis of his authoritarian regime, which made a lot of mistakes on the international arena and internally, the degradation of the political regime of jumping to totalitarianism is increasing. well, it is clear that er, er, otboom- we are talking about the crisis of russian statehood, about whether this state will exist at all in one form or another, if how incompetent the leadership is, which er, satisfies its political ambitions, sacrificed real national interests, the essence of which is that the population lived normally, so that there was economic and social development and in the 19th century, when we talk about this path that putin is leading in russia, i have an association with this by

there is only one path in the direction of the moscow cruiser , that is, wherever the border guard sent the moscow cruiser , the russian federation actually goes there, well, it’s piskov , he can’t say it, but i think that most of the viewers who saw the synchronization with secretary putin thought the same and at the same time thought of the minister of defense of ukraine, oleksiy reznikov believes that the war is moving into a protracted phase, he said this during his speech at the meeting of the defense ministers of the countries with the participation of the nato secretary general, to quote russia is preparing to establish a long-term of the military operation, the war is moving into a protracted phase, we can see how in kherson oblast, zaporizhzhia oblast, the russian occupiers are actively carrying out engineering and fortification works so that, if necessary, they can go on the defensive. what, mykola, does a

protracted war mean for ukraine and russia. the forces and equipment of the russian federation in ukraine. we see this as an unprecedented loss. we have nothing to compare it to. well, except for the second world war, but the scale here smaller, but these wars, which were introduced by the same soviet union after the second world war, even the afghan war, it did not bring only losses to the russians than this war that is currently being waged. so, when v. varshikov talks about a protracted war, it means that putin is ready, you can put it here and costs 200,000 of its e soldiers and get e-e wounded about half a million people in order to achieve some certain e-concessions on the part of ukraine well , first of all, let me say that i agree with this assessment, because there are really factors that

lead to this, that is, on the one hand, we see that the west helps us, the west of the water, restrictions against russia, and export controls on technologies and economic restrictions, but these are far from the restrictions that we would like to see, especially this applies to the energy sector and without in order to introduce energy restrictions, unfortunately, russia will continue to have an influx of resources, and we see that the discussion on the same oil barge in the european union continues on the other side. can go to the defense of the positions they have occupied and so the minister of defense mentions that they are creating fortifications and carrying out fortification works and engineering equipment of the positions. that is, this may mean that the russians are preparing to come to the defense and control those territories, try to get those territories that they captured after february 24, and then ukraine

will have to carry out offensive actions, i.e. now we are effective and excellent in defense, conducting an active defense, a serious defense operation. and if the russians they will go on the defensive. maybe somewhere they will retreat because they will not have enough strength to occupy the front line they occupy, but if they go on the defensive, then we will have to break through the russian defense, and that too. well, it is quite a difficult task. let's be realistic. and it is necessary there is another military potential in terms of firepower, mobility of forces, and unfortunately, we are also in such a situation that we are dependent on the west, that is, the west helps us, but there are also various discussions in the west. how much is necessary? to help ukraine, what is the level of aid in terms of heavy weapons, what are the settlement formulas, unfortunately, there are such politicians in the west who continue to talk about saving face for vladimir putin , fearing nuclear war, that is, i absolutely agree with this assessment that, unfortunately, may arise the situation is such that the russians will no longer be able to advance because they will exhaust the potential they

had and there will be no new ones because they are not bringing such a powerful mobilization as needed. and we will not be able to advance yet because we will not have such powerful potential, so somewhere we may be leveling the front line, but it will not be what many would like to see, especially in the conditions of the fact that we are dependent on the west. and in the west there are very different positions regarding how much and what kind of heavy weapons we need to transfer, and here the main thing the marker for me will be why we receive ms-42 and m270 launchers from the americans, they can be both multiple rocket launchers with a range of up to 70 km and operational tactical missile complexes with a range of up to 310 km, that is why i completely share this assessment that it is necessary to prepare for such an option, i understand the request to liberate at least the territories that we lost in february 524, and ideally we should all liberate the territories because otherwise the world order will be in question but we have such factors that insufficient pressure on russia, russia

will be able to go on the defensive and will have the potential for this. on the other hand, there is not enough support for measures that he supported in order to weaken russia, but he may not support to the point of killing all eyes. there are positions, for example, boris johnson - this is one of of the biggest supporters of the friends of ukraine, he is like ronald reagan for central europe in the 80s, for us it is bory johnson, now he most consistently supports ukraine and his messages of economy publications, they are the most pro-ukrainian about the fact that there cannot be any compromises, there must be a complete destruction of that group which was the full and complete restoration of the territorial integrity of sovereignty , that is, i approve of this strategic assessment of mr. reznikov, and i like it for its sobriety , because we have a request that will end the war through they tell us one two weeks, the next two weeks will be decisive, the next two weeks will be decisive, they are decisive in their own way, but not as decisive as many expect, and in the plan, the war will be long-term, well, i have an example

of the first world war, when everything was decided, for example , not only on the battlefield and to what extent even on the battlefield they are fighting so that such a clinch situation does not arise that the stationary front line may have such a situation that the russians can no longer advance we can not yet advance en masse so in this clinch the winner of the situation is the one who better adapts to this confrontation, i.e. the one who understands his resource base, and unfortunately it will decrease in our country , and it must be admitted who, understanding all his limitations, understanding the potential, will adapt better , that is, it is more correct to place the accents correctly, he will build -e business policy will have a resource base there, therefore, in principle, the military has fulfilled its task, they repelled the first attack of the enemy. of state policy, that is, so that, on the one hand, our soldiers received