er, well, it’s not the same thing that we are called members of the european union, we now have roads built there with compensation, and because they are, we became a part of the economy of the european union, which means that we are not beggars, we are not some people feeding somewhere in the kitchen, and this is a part of the powerful economy that flows in and brings something, the only thing i want is to apologize, and actually i want us to listen to mr. ivan and mr. president 's statement zelenskyi, we will briefly discuss and then we will say goodbye, mr. ivan, so let's listen, we suggest that the state partners sign a multilateral agreement to create a mechanism thanks to which everyone who has suffered from the actions of russia will be able to receive compensation for all losses based on such an agreement . russian funds we have that are in the

jurisdictions of the partner states should be seized or frozen and then confiscated and sent to a specially created fund from which all those who suffered from russian aggression will be able to receive appropriate compensation, it will be exactly fair and russia from something, the real weight of every missile, every bomb, every projectile that it released , we offer our partners to become the founder of such a fund, as well as a member of a special international commission that considers lawsuits, that is, appeals from both individuals and legal entities. the bear is not the case, well, in order to force russia to make such uh reparations, it is probably necessary for her to fall on her knees so much, but first of all, you have to think about it, that is, you have to have this vision, this picture of how it will be, and

what is the real problem now, in which they say in the world that certain funds of the russian federation and businessmen associated with the russian federation have been arrested, but there are no mechanisms for how these funds can be transferred to ukraine, so now the task is for a very short period this is not to ukraine, this is to our partners in the activities of the free east, also because japan, which has joined the sanctions, is formally in the east to develop mechanisms for the transfer of seized assets to a fund that will deal with this restoration of ukraine's ability to function normally, that is, yes, it is still too early to say about this, but i emphasize that the situation is developing very dynamically, i will now provide such interesting information . attacked on

may 16, the american fort published an article entitled will the ukrainian army attack russia i am not implying that ukraine will attack in 12 days that is, on may 28, nevertheless, the western media are already considering the possibility that there will be such a fundamental change in the situation that it is possible that russia will agree to all the payments we are talking about now only because it will understand the risk of what will happen if there is such a significant change that it will have to, as one russian journalist joked, unfortunately i forgot the last name. and how protected is moscow, although we didn’t think about it. but maybe we should think about it. oh, god. i like this optimistic view. thank you very much for this conversation. well, we are moving on. we already have the next guest. our

next interlocutor is pavlo sheremeta , the ex-minister of economic development and trade of ukraine. years ago, the founders of the mogilian business school , pavly, good day. already started the topic in principle, whether we have a connection, i will check i can hear you ok, good, because i see that we just have a frozen picture, that's why i'm asking each other. with mr. ivan usom about this size is huge, which is currently being discussed in particular in the german e-e newspapers, the future of this

actual reconstruction of the leader of the av bau and german ukraine will have to cost about half a mile, 500 billion dollars, for example, a huge amount from the other side, for example they say that they are considering the possibility that they will issue 500 million in such transactions, which obviously indicates a certain lack of trust and that each step will be accompanied by some kind of exchange for some kind of reform, eh. actually, here i am trying to formulate it very well, it was actually formulated by yuliya samayeva in the mirror, you are the editor of the economics department who says that when building a new ukraine, it is important not to build russia here. here are the temptations that will appear before the ukrainian government, the ukrainian government, and even the ukrainian society as voters. when we do start to receive these huge sums, look at the first

temptation - to believe that these will be huge sums, uh, second temptation - this is the temptation of populism, and accordingly to spend these funds on populist measures, especially the closer to the elections . will take place, and by the way, chronologically, we are approaching the elections. and if, of course , the third martial law is lifted - this is the famous and mountainous ukrainian corruption, of course, i hoped that the war would at least put it on hold. i must say that corruption is stronger than my expectations. that's why the first sprouts are already military. i see them too unfortunately. that's why it's a combination of all these three things. i think that leads to this decision or those thoughts. which you voiced to crush the aid, among other things, one more factor must be understood why the aid is worth it, because

i do not think that we have the institutional capacity to take and in and effectively and quickly use such huge funds even if they were it it is also difficult for me imagine where they come from because 500 million billion for germany is, well, it is a very large amount, that is, it is necessary to understand that these are changes in the budget, that is, accordingly, that it is necessary to take this money from german citizens, from german children, and give it to ukraine . that it will be such large sums, and instead of thinking that it is actually ukrainian reconstruction, it is primarily a question of ukraine, those questions are ukrainians, not germans and not americans and not british, but here is a temptation, here is actually about this temptation give me a little and let's talk more. it seems to me that there is some kind of belief that we will now defeat russia. and you will make us such a

europe so that everything will be very beautiful. you will take us to nato and the european union or the european union. nothing will have to be done, and you owe it to us, you are obliged to do it all. that's it. well, i talk with european politicians, with european parliamentarians, with political scientists, they smile, they really keep me politely silent, and they don't say anything in response, but i see easily a smile on their faces and then behind the scenes they say pavlo these expectations are very, very much exceeded, well, that is, you are doing, you are doing a very big deal. no questions here. but, but these expectations that someone owes you large sums after that automatically -e this is this is this for high expectations from ukraine and it is necessary to understand, well, in fact, one more of the problems of

ukraine will probably remain and after the war we will have the same government. the war will change society, how much will it change the elite, yes, but in any case, what we entered on the eve of the war is, for example, we entered with a very low e-e index of economic freedom and with very poor indicators of the effectiveness of governance in the state. here is whether it will remain a burden and in general is it possible to join the european union with all that, conditionally speaking? well, if you say so, take us. well, what else do you need, aunt? well , it is impossible to join the european union right now, but here too i must say that there is one important point and this needs to be done, give us the status of a candidate , that is, here it is, i support it, that’s enough uh, well , it’s essentially a political decision, that’s the main thing. it entails some legal consequences for no one, but it’s indicative, it’s illustrative, it

’s necessary, uh, and after that, the process of harmonizing the legislation begins, the process of reforms accelerates, the european union begins to transfer from in to the fund, which is jointly processed together with the united states of america, most likely by ukraine, and for sure international financial institutions, as well as the world bank, for example, a fund that begins to finance reconstruction projects eh and eh, well , accordingly, in this way, we are starting to move in this direction, but look, you mentioned the indices of economic freedom, here it must be said that it will deteriorate because one of the parameters there is a financial health of the country, it is obvious that we have well, while the war is going on, the days of which financial health cannot be discussed at all, in principle, accordingly, this will worsen our indicators, so that, uh, our rating will fall further

more but there is a factor of such depressed entrepreneurship, by the way, which also worsens due to the fact that 6 million people left ukraine. let one or two million of them return, they will return. but nevertheless, we have not even felt a lack of entrepreneurial spirit talent and a lack of entrepreneurial energy, and we know about the pressure . what is the pressure of fiscalization, the pressure of the power structures that put pressure on ukrainian entrepreneurs , and this is very important to change, also because ukraine is among the three least free economically countries of europe, and the other two countries are russia and belarus, this is not at all the kind of company in which we will need uh, and accordingly, it depends primarily on ukraine, on the parliament, on the government, uh, to release these shackles, uh, well finally

do those things, the liberal things that were done in the central reforms, that were done in central eastern europe 20-30 years ago, actually these things . i think he took his first steps and we were already told everything about the pension reform . for example, we already knew everything about insurance medicine, and then you already have a gray beard. and all you see is that you were driving there, my god. it was even in the program of the election of the 91st year of chornovola, if you ask, absolutely in the blood, and by the way, you clicked and you remembered yes, very specific and very necessary points , because the pension reform in ukraine has not been completed due to the fact that business is squeezed , entrepreneurship is squeezed by regulation, e.e., policy, fiscalization in our country is low enough

the percentage of savings, that is, for reconstruction, we first of all need ukrainian capital, and there is not enough of it, because we have savings of 12-13% of gdp, although the normal level should be 25-30, but it is you when you save for yourself a pension is when you save for your children’s education , this is when you save for yourself for medicine, this is medical insurance. as you already mentioned, since these reforms have not been completed in ukraine, accordingly, ukrainians save a lot, in particular for these things , and accordingly, so that there is not enough ukrainian capital both for investment and for reconstruction, do the germans see it of course they see it of course they see it and take away german pension money or german medical money and because in ukraine we have not finished the reforms well, we can but hope that it will be very large sums -e it is certain that after all it is certain that it is better

to complete these reforms er-e to be very brief. do you remain optimistic about the rapid rapid liberalization of ukraine after the war and here is another question. in this they often say that we the main thing is to find some honest judges and, in principle, on this ukraine will immediately begin to prosper , but it always seems to me that there is something here and what is so naive in this proposal well, how naive is this proposal it is simply personalized to the type of honest judges, i try to look more institutionally on processes eh and not and not personally that is, you need to find a process eh and institutionalize the process of finding honest judges and, among other things, filtering dishonest courts because it is the same well, this is a constant process, especially since people change also that is, with eh well people people are tempted to make mistakes. this should be a process that at least shows a yellow card and later a red card. or do i remain an optimist without a doubt, that is, ukraine shows

miracles. during the last three months, if we have learned to fight in the economy and in politics, as we are the field of war and it seems to me that it is more difficult on the field of vinnytsia, it is obvious that ukraine is waiting for great success ahead, but it will be a long and thorny road, thank you very much pavlo sheremeta joined us and was at this hour thank you very much for this conversation well, we don't have much time left, at least for the part of our marathon that i had the honor to spend with you, and i still have 15 such minutes , and our next guest is ihor tyshkevich precisely because our interlocutor is from belarus e p igor good day good day pnevr and i once tried to speak belarusian. well, i tried. i don't know anything in belarusian, you speak, but i understand everything, at least like that dog . actually, i wanted to talk to

mr. iro first of all. just about the belarusian affairs if eh you don't mind now, belarus has become active again. and we see that we have stories about how, for example, everyone is trying to find a way out of the food crisis, which is due to the blockade of ukrainian ports and the blockade of the decomposition of russia's grain with their blackmail again food supply and so on, and there is also an idea to somehow negotiate with the belarusians so that it is possible to ease the sanctions in exchange for some transits of the territory and so on and so on. is there any reason for this? hope is why that for us the issue is a basic global issue for ukraine that will remain even after this war because we are living this whole war with arrivals from that side with a march-kit or something like a match with a throw, well

, an attack from the side of belarus from the territory of belarus, i will remind by the way, maybe someone forgot that on the eve of the invasion, our minister of defense called his visa in belarusian, forgot his last name for something a little funny, and they apparently agreed that there would be no invasion, etc. less that is, all this time we are happy that belarus did not enter the war, but we also understand that it is probably not because lukashenko is so patriotic, but nevertheless, the factor of belarus remains and after this war it is a huge border and it is a very important country for ukraine and for poles, which are certainly important ukrainians first of all defend their borders, and belarus is also very important for ukrainians, either as potential enemies or as potential great allies or at least a buffer with the russian border.

conversations yuriy, you have a word. look, if we talk from the point of view of internal affairs, animals are needed for ukraine and can be divided into two parts. and the first is that the supposed neighbor of the neighbor is important for ukraine. it is very difficult to call him a democrat, but lukashenko is foreseen, unfortunately, now, unfortunately, for ukraine, in the short term, a neighbor is needed; in the long term, the belarusian political and economic family is needed, which they treat ukraine well because it opens the door for cooperation and it makes any aggressive actions on the part of belarus impossible, let's say a-ah s- what happened today, well during this time you and i

have also already said that at one time that for the lukashenkas his pyramid of values in the first place is his own government, he believed that ukraine would not last long before that he very carefully looked for an angle of relit in belarus, there were also socialists and many others, and in the end the russians pushed dmytrovychuk and he believed that if ukraine a change of government, well, in that case, it would be lukashenko who would win, and the recipient would hold his own referendum accordingly, well, that's how things went, and as of today, lukashenko will try to some extent to avoid participation in the war with the belarusian army itself, and that's why that the idea of ​​fighting against ukraine is very unpopular among belarusian society, including among the electoral core of the current ugu, so trying to fight for it is a shot in the foot,

if not on the other side. what will happen after a year? here the question is, what will ukrainian politics be like, because on the one hand, there are certain commodity groups on which ukraine depends, but on the other hand, i think it is obvious that it is impossible to return to the situation of the 19th and 18th years, and therefore the most logical it would be if there is cooperation, that is, with a very large number of conditions, so that it would be very unprofitable to spend a-a on these agreements or not to fulfill them once and the second part is, in the end, that the ukrainian political elites themselves should answer the question as to what and as in ukraine belarus is needed not from the point of view. that is, who is above and who is below, and from the point of view of which elites

. what is the level of cooperation, because it depends on such a goal, the indication depends, first of all, what will be your policy, and the second part is this it is politics in the belarusian direction that has not yet existed. well, i will give a very simple example during the war, paradoxically, but with a large number of russians, russian television , sociology shows that 11% of belarusians watch ukrainian television, this is the highest indicator for in the last 20 years, does a ukrainian use the following ? group you eh what

is important to them and you form your package accordingly because let's assume the attempts of ukrainian eh well and other spies to influence the belarusian society by launching certain tpp uhu well i'm sorry at the beginning of the war it was funny to me it hurts to say it, but it was funny because people don't understand the mentality of the country, why try to work, and they just copied the russian heels, let's face it, it didn't have the effect you could expect, if you want to influence, learn. if you want to swim you should know what kind of water tymoshenko is. is it swimming? ukraine could very well be in fact such a natural channel . express yourself freely and precisely on the territory of belarus. i also think about it very well. i understand that this is what the poles do, but the poles are a little, maybe

smaller . still argue with whom below but that too but but not before that but what are we talking about people sooner or later it will end remember how many belarusians went to ukraine on vacation that's millions that's the question in ukraine in the 14th year the war since 14 -th year did they make at least one brochure in black and white format, we need a road, where is the space , what is happening in ukraine once again, people who go on vacation in their cars, they are available, they go, they are in contact with ukrainian civil servants. next

question and now if we are talking about belarus, yes, the information on the field of belarus is divided between, let 's say, three groups, these are three automated fields. okay, but the number of so-called bloggers is increasing great, but if we need to influence the mood of the population, did ukraine invite or make attacks on bloggers of neighboring countries, tell exactly what is happening. well, it’s somehow scary that you bring people here, and then they get a higher measure there, after all. we heard that there are different approaches for such a higher measure. there are different possibilities, and in the end there are different pro-russian and belarusian-centric pro-european belarusians. but again, how can they go to ukraine, and if it is an escape, a large part of the road passes through the destroyed regions where there was an occupation, let's

let's see what azerbaijan did after karabakh, he made the park destroyed by machinery, and very calmly you can make the corresponding corridors through which they pass outside motivating this includes danger, but so that people can see what it leads to, it leads to russian peace, it's interesting . head ugu and if the ukrainian corresponding e-e service if they worked in this direction, then it could be done another example of the elite, let's see how even the belarusian opposition feels about of the ukrainian question from the beginning of the war and before, and these came to the political and public movement until the 20th year, after the 20th year, my generation was the one that did not ask the question whether the crimea and the new belarusian position, how long they were drawn out, the

greater crimea a let's now remember why, until the 13th year, well, the ship, of course, mr. yanukovych, most of the western programs that worked on belarus is a program for the development of a civil joint training program, including even with belarusian with belarusian government officials, their base was in kyiv this means that a person did not go to kyiv for training for an internship this means that the transfer of knowledge to a large extent was from ukrainian experts and in this case, if a person has a question, who should we call whom do i know that made by the republic of lithuania after the 13th year of science, if yanukovych is so smart, they removed it all here and as a result they can stimulate you now well, i don’t say before certain programs to raise certain questions, well let’s assume the same question atom cases of ugh and the same issues. due to ecologists,

issues of other influences and, accordingly, there is loyalty or a good attitude towards e-e lithuanian politics . and what about ukrainian politics, actually, that is, ukraine has its soft power, which it greatly underestimates in relations with belarus alas, alas, she is there, you can’t see , we have literally four minutes left. i’ll ask mr. ihor eh . well, if ukraine. i know there it is some kind of catastrophic no isn’t it catastrophic for putin’s regime itself ends as in this case belarus changes what opens a window of opportunity for that free belarus for national belarus for independent belarus see a-a in history any time after russia’s powerful defeat in

russia plunges into an internal political crisis, it is 5-6 years when the state that depends on russia can bounce back a-a cro- used a chance you where or those parts of local national ethics more are prepared for what will happen if russia collapses, first of all i can almost guarantee you this word oleksandr lukashenko to be exact belarus was occupied by exactly half of ukraine he loves ukraine he will try to repeat the maneuver - let's maneuver in 1944 when the finns refused to cooperate with the germans because for lukashenko, power is in the first place, he will understand that it is impossible to hide his own power with someone who is drowning, or can or can the situation change to democratization after that, national values, of course, they will to show that there is less but for democratization and it will already depend on how organized and

how well prepared other groups of elites are, which speak out specifically for democracy, well, this is the question. and now, so far, this question is a problem, anyway, it actually consists of two moments, and what is that lesson what ukraine has probably learned over the 100 years of the liberation struggle is that, in principle, when it comes to independence, it is quite likely that the security issues of independence come to the fore, and now to the background in particular, the question of democracy is raised, although today, at this stage, when ukraine has already been independent for more than 30 years, we all understand that ukraine cannot be an alternative, there cannot be an alternative to a democratic system, of course. and what is wrong with igor? there is something else i really wanted to ask you. before i let you go, especially since we still have and we literally have a minute, very short , what is the fate of these railway partisans, do you know anything? unfortunately, a large part will give all

the real terms, let's say yes political balance, they will shine, unfortunately, it 's a pity, but this movement had a really impressive scope, and it's a pity for those people who are suffering now, but we hope that the victory of ukraine will also be their victory, and the moment will come when they will also be and honored for their activities in their own belarus. thank you very much to ihor tashkevich for this conversation. i also want to say thank you to everyone who watched us, especially on youtube, because i watched you comment there , friends, many people thanked you for the broadcast we all do thank you very much. here, and thank you for those who supported. yes, yes, yes, well, there is a lot here . okay, friends, thank you.