he, lukashenka, turned out to be an ally of putin, they both talked about the war in ukraine, and all the rest of the participants in this meeting, after all, this is the defense union, how can you imagine a nato summit where, in general, only baidin talks about the war about ukraine, everyone else talks about it and we need to talk about something the problem of agriculture and productivity looks like this is that no one wants to sign up for the suicide club anymore, all the more so for the executioner's club because even the same merciful one if you look at the variation he understands that these are crazy people who will not only bury themselves, but also bury all those who enter there, by the way, today china made the cis tax agreement out of the cis tax agreement . i think that this meeting was rather due for putin in any way a demonstration of his power and influence there . and as an indicator of the fact that even from this ship, the rats do not run. i have two

dcbs. the offensive of ukraine in the east will develop as soon as possible , they will flee from there first of all kazakhstan, i believe that kazakhstan is the first client, the first country that will immediately leave all of the alliances with russia because it is vulnerable to talks about external threats, and i think that kazakhstan has much more room for maneuver than in the other countries that are members of the fdc. but the fact itself is an indicator of how much it was from god . it's not that lukashenko acted like a parrot on silver's shoulder. yes, it's interesting that you understand that he made a mistake. he simply had no way out. he provided us with the flowers of the country

for the invasion. i think that somewhere he understands that he has signed a death sentence not only for himself, but also for his family . the image will break putin's regime, then belarus will be the first , that first, the first space on which there will be nothing. let's say it's a political blow to the whole world. that is, if it doesn't work out like this , putin will be played with lukashenko, and he understands this very well, but i believe that he had no way out, i don’t know how much he was informed that the russians would launch tatarka on the 24th, precisely from the territory of belarus, perhaps he

guessed somewhere for there will be historians, but nevertheless, how the russians suppressed and strangled lukashenko, starting with the events of august 20, well, it was obvious that he already had nowhere to go, that some kind of pact was signed on a personal level you can remember how in september he looked like a begging child and most likely power in exchange for strategic military control and this is basically a payment for the fact that he stayed in power thank you thank you our interlocutor was a belarusian political scientist pavlousov we talked about what the current situation is with the prospects of the belarusian ruler oleksandr lukashenko, who is already trying to

distance himself so carefully from vladimir putin. and now, after all , we will return to what was promised with valery, i congratulate valery, i congratulate the word glory to ukraine, i want to start with what i told in detail there to the audience about what is happening now around the expansion of nato well, still agree that what is happening with turkey now i am sitting and reading here the president of finland called president erdogan, the prime minister of sweden spoke with everyone is dancing around president erdoğan, who is trying to block the expansion of nato, this is an unpleasant surprise . to be honest, this is actually a difficult situation for many organizations . in essence, the right of veto is where decisions

are made by all members of the organization. that is, this is not the first time in nato - there were such precedents in in principle, as a result, they were resolved, so i think that in this case it will also be resolved in the end, i wonder if this will not be a problem for ukraine one day. do you generally believe that ukraine will be accepted after all, donato, what are all these conversations now, what should be settled after all but so that russia is not humiliated, not the humiliation of russia. this is obviously not the european integration of ukraine. it is a matter of work to find the most optimal model. the fact is today that the collective model of security and defense is in europe, it is cheaper, it is more reliable, it is in in principle, it even protects now from this russian invasion, and they felt it

, and finland and sweden are obviously neutral, which has been there for several centuries. it was like the ideology of neutrality, but they felt it and are trying to get under the security umbrella in europe . here er. some people say that we should look skeptically at the possibility of a political solution in nato countries, but i think that while we have no other option, we should work hard on the fact that, in principle, the ukrainian constitution is fixed on today it does not mean that it is like this, you know. well, the hedgehog is the position, but today there is no better option for ukraine. personally, i believe that the window of opportunity for us cannot be closed. and after pushing out the russian occupier from our territory, i believe that it is necessary to diplomatically seek all opportunities to insist that ukraine joins nato as soon as possible, otherwise we will not be able to protect ourselves

in the future from the next attempts of russia to attack us." was declared at the beginning of these famous negotiations in belarus, but by the west states, but he said what does ukraine mean, i want that, western countries such as ukraine do not want it, and he says that they will agree somewhere in the middle , and it is not very clear to me what the guarantees can be when they agree in the middle, how to ensure our security, now we are the option that we still have this right to self-defense, we ourselves, with our own forces, with the armed forces of ukraine, provide defense in war to all peoples with the possibility of international support, which, in

principle, each country can receive accordingly to international law, that is, this is an absolutely normal situation, this option is very expensive because it is expensive, you see, it is resource-intensive, it is huge human and economic resources, it is very difficult to oppose a nuclear state on equal terms , so the second option is collective defense, i have already said that in europe it is nato, there is no alternative, there is one more option - it is a bilateral agreement with powerful countries, nuclear countries that could help you balance this imbalance, it is primarily the united states of america or britain or together, as an intermediate option, such an in-depth defense agreement, which the usa has, in particular, with some other countries, as an important option, i allow it in relation to the security guarantee, etc., which are

fixed there on paper, then, frankly, i am very skeptical about it, because our environment is changing very dynamically is an aggressive neighbor, russia, they do not fulfill any obligations on paper, the biggest guarantees were - this is a bilateral agreement, it was called, imagine, about friendship, partnership and cooperation, there was established a territorial the integrity of ukraine absolutely clear position on non-aggression any options but what is there not an attack there in general everything was written like that reinforced concrete yes and it became an obstacle to the destruction of this agreement that is why i do not really believe in such written guarantees and the first position is important the most important when of any such additional agreements, our army must be so powerful that somehow we can maintain the basic basis of security, that is, in terms of the

quantity and quality of weapons. and tell me, did you see this text in the new york times editorial pastor calls ukraine not even to a compromise, in fact to capitulation to russia, you know, i don't just see, i basically read the main american mass media, and i'll tell you such and such a thing, the american mass media are influential, such materials do not appear by chance, but i i saw how they influence, they can be a certain test, they can be just, well, one of the opinions uh, even the territory under the influence of some uh, it is possible to research there. that is, it should be taken seriously as one of the directions of the reflections of the solar states

but it is necessary to work, including information, so that the interests of national ukraine are protected as much as possible. i think about this article, er, somehow, well, i’m just asking for something again from er, the minister of foreign affairs of ukraine, let’s say because i’ll be honest . well, there is a desire to write there, but they won’t take it. it's just that universality is the territory, but the minister of foreign affairs, dmytro kuleb , will take the article, it would be useful to answer now , especially since he officially stated his position, it would be correct now, just its american to the audience there, explain ukrainian. do you understand that this is not only an article in new york, as it was this italian peace plan, which in fact is also proposing things that cannot be agreed upon , do you understand what the problem is? when they say, let's deny ukraine territorial integrity let crimea and donbas remain part of ukraine, but

with absolute autonomy, including in the model of ensuring its security, even if we fear that the president of ukraine will appear and say so, territorial integrity is important to us, we are ready to the fact that this region has wide autonomy. well, what president of russia, well, at least, would agree to such a utopia, it is very strange to me when western politicians, whom i consider to be serious people, are there, luigi , who has been there for a long time. the minister of foreign affairs in italy can learn something already during this time offer things that are still impossible to put into practice even if they wanted to, why is there such a misunderstanding of russia, you know, in fact, hmm, there really is a misunderstanding, there is another point, there is a political er, timing, i would say so, are there any waves there political in some countries, in different countries, and often there are statements that correspond to the mood in society, yes, that is, or preparation for the elections , but i will tell my version. i think that

such libyan ones have not been shared anywhere, including through information resources, through political contacts, in scraps of effort russia and russia now, from my point of view, we need an operational pause in military operations, they need, well, experts in the military sphere say that this offensive, which has been going on for weeks, basically needs pauses in order to prepare for the next offensive actions, and they now have some kind of diplomatic discussion on their hands, and they will prepare for further military actions, i have no doubt. what do you think? we have already discussed this idea today in the program of this, how to say it , economically, european, this of the political european political commonwealth that is currently being

proposed by president macron president of the european council michel lekarsholtz european unions, but ukraine, moldova, georgia, northern macedonia, serbia, bosnia and herzegovina, and even great britain, which has already left the european union, will not be allowed to enter yet, but these are political relations, because the essence of the european union in this commonwealth is not what this model is for at all. now arose, well, not now, in principle, there are even examples through such a mechanism of some kind of gradual integration into the european union, that is, through the passage of all stages of economic integration, starting with the free zone trade, then the customs union, then the economic union , then the union, plus the currency union, and then this

type of registration is already a full-fledged membership. i think that the way out here is not our choice, because in principle, we proceed from the fact that the threats are security . is now a key issue and we all countries agree with this and they will not disappear anywhere, therefore the european union is because of the economy and integration. this is not the option that exists today. that is, it must be a powerful union that knows how to defend itself, including against energy weapons against er-er different such threats and if there is no such readiness, er-er, i think it is necessary to talk with european countries what is the main opinion of ukraine, because, well, right away, because we cannot do it in another way, let's say frankly, that is, we we will look for a model in which we

will not always stand on these borders of europe and as a barrier or buffer from russia, well, it will be absolutely unfair and this is not the development option that we can imagine, we will look for some alliances, maybe less, but more united with those countries that want to see us together, accept it, it is multi-term search, therefore, i think that the official position, which i will announce to president volodymyr zelenskyi, is correct. actually, it is announced by the ministry of foreign affairs. all these maniv people do not suit us. we need a solution. what is normal? that is, it is june, the status of the candidate, which , by the way, does not guarantee the start of negotiations. one more stage. that is, we need not to delay the start of negotiations for a long time, then we will form a single, protected, powerful europe, and if it will be such a game

, well, then well, we will really have to look for something i will honestly say that we are looking for alternative models, because we cannot in the conditions when we have uh, now the account is running there at the end of the month, and then we cannot afford decades of integration together with european countries, so these are challenges, we still have to insist on a straight path now well , let's see how successful he will be. for now, it's not worth coming up with an alternative. i think we should try to work with the societies in these countries, which should influence their politicians in their political classes. thank you, mr. valery let me remind you that our co-investigator was a diplomat , the extraordinary plenipotentiary ambassador of ukraine, valery chaly. now i will talk with a russian political scientist , a police officer, andriy pyatkovsky. good evening , andriy andreevich. good evening, radically

. here i see what he was talking about with the master in general. here are all these initiatives for macron and schultz. they will not affect the european economic and social political community when they take over ukraine together with great britain and nobody he doesn't apply there, but they seriously discuss it, they want the eu absolutely themselves, and at the same time, this article is in the new york times, and at the same time, the italian peace initiative, and it seems to me that everything is already, let's face it, they are tired of the wars that killed us. yes, that's it to put it this way, they do not appear at the same time, i noticed them now, it started on the ninth, it started on may 9, er , 9 may was determined, er, the nearest concept for the nearest time is the kremlin elite, putin's pitiful speech to demonstrate that they are ego the environment convinced him that the original goal of the war , which he set, was unattainable, and they, as if before the

shot, reached a consensus on the idea of ​​gaining a foothold on the kherson-kharkiv line and using all their western agents to force ukraine to recognize these conditions, hmmm, peaceful change, and well, something you and now immediately down immediately from this very day macron behind the main meme downhemlyat otrazhenie humiliate russia in this i am not watching yours here kgb agent and very solid people of such crimea in the closed eh analytical political soobshestva well, for example, they will talk about chaos, he is the chairman of the council on foreign policy, eh, one of the shining desvet, who is the minister of washington, pos. 9:30

, they all follow the same methods, eh, enough of these suffering ukrainian people, we need a truce, and finally final point, this is a document written simply, but bianka has cancer, this is quite surprising to me, this article is a non-fiction station, the new york times, we must require president biden to clearly explain to the zelensky ego people what they lived russia's involvement in the united states' confrontation sasha is the limit of the amount of money, weapons, political support that we can , they have not given anything, in fact, much, yes, an important political decision has been made, but nothing else , practically, there is no limit, or there were no such articles, sorry, before pearl harbor in the american press, they were also automobile supporters of great britain, this was a classic, this is a classic

, and how does it heal now? it was clearly supported by the enemy's side. by the way, i would say that she is not so dangerous today in the united states of new york, well, she will show us back - this was once the stop of different journalists, this is the extreme body for this, the extreme left-wing body of the democratic party, this is a supporter of xander, that's all crazy grandma who are running around in the american congress with tentacles and demand to be destroyed. television broadcast andrey andreevich and demand and demand the destruction of israel. here they are. yes, this article directly attacks biden . aggressive less interestingly, i don’t know how these edges are closed , they repeat the same thing, well

, i know how to characterize it after your remark. well, this jerk with protruding eyes is also carlson, the crazy trumpian is about the same extreme left and extreme right, this is classic ya all the time popper's formula is open to the public and its enemies, while they do not solve anything in america, while the friends of ukraine do so very firmly, ostiny and baida, but this is very serious pressure. yes, in europe, they have already decided everything the peace plan, er, italy is a collective creation of old europe, italy, germany and france, my dear , you know very well that this peace plan is primarily a cease -fire. to kherson, they gave some kind of announcement of ukraine, it is not clear what is called neutral status, that is, recognition and some kind of

commitment . ukraine about the discussion of collective territorial issues well, this one was simply written on lubyanka, perfect, but i, too, have the second explanation, of course, the public role is played by one round, but i see that he is simply starting from the first, with the passion with which macron defends this treacherous line that the leaders of the old europe is afraid of the prospect of ukraine's victory in this war because everyone understands that this victory will seriously change ukraine's international attitude. but it has already become the leader of the free world and in this new the situation in this new europe and in the new world, after the victory of ukraine, france and germany are losing such a comfortable mouth as a mediator of the west in

communication with the kremlin, this is the role that france has played for the last 60 years. and revent in the case of victory, that is, they will not just fulfill the kremlin 's order, they will respond to the geopolitical interests of these two countries, after all. with eyes opened, there is a word telepenny, president zelensky is saying today that we are going to win , we will accept a ukrainian victory if we would like to say that on the line of demarcation on

february 24, 2022, he said this today. our territories well, this too, in general, may not seem realistic to many, at least it will definitely appear to putin well, first of all, until yesterday, i hear the dear statement of the minister of foreign affairs actually tostin m-m e-e defense minister austin will attack in this e-e opus new york times precisely because of the fact that the portrait question what are the goals of the war he answered that the goals of the war are the victory of ukraine and the restoration of the territory of the universe to liberate it to such degree so that it could not commit aggression well, of course, everything will seem irrelevant to putin but that's why there is a ukrainian army that solves the problems on the ground says but no further we can't go further this is the line for february 24 and we will talk further what did they do

with the luhansk women of donetsk or do i represent such a ukrainian army ? he sees the victory of ukraine, he said that we are reaching this line, we are talking further, the negotiation process is how i understand the position of the winner, they are defeated, that is how he saw it, or what he thinks that we have lost, not won, and now we are already talking about how will the rest of the ukrainian territories be returned to academic sports, the main thing is victory, that's it. in general, autumn zelensky and you and i are coming together, i think yes, of course, and what are they so opposed to ? we are simply in the fact that if the primacy of international law is not restored, it concerns not only donbass, it concerns crimea first of all - then russia will remain a threat

to the civilized world because the entire world it will be there as if peace will be based on the right of force, well, after all, they seized a piece of territory , they appropriated themselves now, by the way, they can call the donetsk luhansk region. it is not necessary to prove it to the american leadership of the congress, it is not necessary to prove it , just recently in kiev, you had a league of republicans in the senate, and the next day, it is polymysing with 100 already % to kremlin agents er-er early gender which zarotmozil nanesskoe dnei 50 billion presented they explained very clearly that you are worried about the expenses that the united states will spend on the victory of ukraine, but imagine what monstrous expenses will mean the situation of ukraine, these people understand very well that it is the sky

of creativity in relation to ukraine because ukraine, i alone now defend the western world from such a political disaster on december 15, the idiots said, uh, i'm not going to learn the ukrainian word yet. manatki, get out of the 16 nato countries and they didn't give up on these claims, well, that's it, and that's what i think is the court of problems, because it opens the taiwanese case, the next thing to say is the approach if ukraine lost. on the map, here is such a simultaneous mm volley, equally complete and perfect, and calling for the time of paris, berlin and washington, it just happens to be more by chance, and this also shows the extent of the

penetration of the kremlin and lubyanka higher political spheres of the west thank you andrey andreevich, we had a russian political scientist and publicist andrey piontkovskyi in contact with whom we discussed the latest political trends in the western world, you see that we can really dwell on the fact that the world is not as simple as it always seems when a war starts because which may seem like a huge problem when you start to think that the world after the start of the war becomes exactly black and white, here is good and evil. no, unfortunately, during the war, you can read it in various fairy tales, even in utopias there is still some part of the gray and if this part of the gray is not taken into account and it is not necessarily won, then the winner is not quite white , the black wins. and now we are dealing with this gray strip, but let's hope that the ukrainian

states and the people will be able to do it to overcome, we will believe in the strength and courage of our soldiers, the defenders of our countries, and at the end of this hour i will pass the word to my colleague iryna koval, who will present you with another news release on the espresso tv channel. i bid you farewell, friends, and i hope that you will stay with our by tv channel in the next hours well, you have a good evening, and most importantly, a quiet one, so that it will be calm for us.