stein is talking about help now, about tactics, but also about strategy for the near future. of course, when we talk about the future, i cannot help but recall the words of the minister of defense of ukraine, oleksiy reznikov. to dig in and create fortifications in the south of ukraine, when we talk about a protracted war, we are of course talking first of all about ukraine, about what this war will be like for ukraine, but we must talk about what it is means for the world because the world is now facing a food crisis because ukraine cannot deliver its grain or part of the grain, the russians stole it and took it to their country, all the ports of ukraine are blocked by the russians, the world also

expects a worsening of the food situation, not only the food situation, what does it mean a protracted war for the world, mr. pavel, this means a threat for us, of course. well, okay, not a threat. but nevertheless, it is a challenge that in many countries they will begin to look not at military logic, but begin to calculate economically how will wheat and corn continue to grow, how will oil grow, what will happen to the son and seeds for liquefied gas , and this is of course quite a threat, there is already a lot of talk about this in europe, as well as in asia, and there they say well, what should we do next? and what should we do? with the resource crises that are really looming over us and are actually all around us. let's talk with putin. so we'll let him win, but

then there's everything macaron said about saving face and so on. well, but i have a very simple sentence. if you want if necessary ukrainian grain yes, ukraine supports the world and we are humane people, well, look at us ukrainians, but nevertheless you want grain, but push putin to the fact that corridors were opened for it all to work. and what is happening now is an attempt to exhaust both ukraine and the world and then he perfectly understands that the further he goes, the stronger the sanction will be on him, this means that he needs to somehow jump out of this situation and this is the number one story for him to say what you see around crisis after crisis well, let's start to agree somewhere

but negotiate at the expense of ukraine they constantly say we are not going to capitulate a-a but why at the expense of ukraine and of course one of the key risks for today, we must be honest about this, today in davos the world economic forum is being held in parallel with ramstein 2 and e volodymyr zelenskyi has already spoken there, he stated that the world should introduce a ban on russian oil, do not create the impression that the aggressor will not be sufficiently resisted, immediately protect freedom and a normal order in the world that is useful for everyone, this is how we should be, the sanctions should be maximum so that russia, every potential aggressor who wants a tough war against a neighbor, clearly knows what this immediately leads to and such sanctions against russia. i

believe that there are still no, they should be margo on russian oil the blocking of all banks without exception, the complete rejection of the russian it sector, the complete termination of negotiations with the aggressor, said zelensky , who participated in this online forum. the only question is that not everyone, especially in europe, has enough political will, as they say, and someone says that these are such political eggs to go so far that it would really hit the putin regime hard, and all that is currently happening and being discussed in in fact, it is about globalization in the classical sense, that is, the dependence of supply chains on each other, the supply of

resources for security, and it was seen as interconnected things. statements, this is very clearly visible from the statements of many business leaders, eh. well, one of the ideas that biden brought to asia is to completely review critical supply chains. and we should do the same thing, realizing that we have a short shoulder to europe, a short shoulder to turkey, are we really on the silk road, we need to take advantage of our unique advantages, this is possible only when we have security and predictability here. but nevertheless , today's davos well, not only today's, but in particular today's globalization in the classical sense is coming to an end, but what will happen next

, political experts and many of them are now working very hard and arguing a lot about it, because no one knows what it will look like, no, everyone is used to the fact that the world is global. -e countries that are actually revanchist or want to create spheres of influence for themselves and this means that the world will change like this in the next 10 years. 100% of us should be listened to. we said a lot about it. someone listened to us. someone tried to do something but couldn't. now let them learn from their mistakes. among other things, president zelenskyi says that our victory over russia will be bloody in battle, but the end is also quoted.

will definitely be diplomatic when we talk about diplomacy and diplomacy in the sense of russian diplomats in the context of russian diplomacy , the question always arises that whether russian diplomacy is even ready for dialogue if this diplomacy it can still be called diplomacy, because with the beginning of the great war, russian diplomacy de facto ceased to exist, it is some kind of division, a small division in the administration of president putin. how do you see a possible dialogue between russia and ukraine or ukraine and russia, because it is clear that wars end sooner or later one thing, people sit down at the

negotiating table to agree on something. the dialogue that will be called the acceptance of the capitulation of putin's russia is a classic dialogue i don't believe i already said that i don't believe the peace agreement because it is very difficult to sign a peace agreement with someone who wants to kill you at the moment russia is ready to talk, but it is ready to talk not with us but with measures only on its terms. and we need it to be ready to talk with us and on our terms with the support of the measure. this is a completely different situation . i don't see such readiness in russia today, and putin is tainted in his desire to destroy ukraine. continues his offensive, in addition, he has at least some victory to show in russia, because if he does not show it, russia will crumble sooner or later, we must understand that it has a certain margin of strength, but

it can crumble quite unexpectedly, this does not mean that it will crumble to pieces, this there may be a reboot, an overload, everything alone may be the result, there may be some combined options, but nevertheless, we understand very well that a serious conversation with putin can begin. it can begin. and the west is the strongest position and for the situation on the battlefield to be such that russia is forced to speak on our terms, this is actually a key story, and then a serious conversation will begin. a less serious conversation is possible only if putin understands that he will not get any further progress in ukraine. i did not mention russian diplomacy or not diplomacy

for nothing. you know very well many people in the russian ministry of foreign affairs, because from 2014 to 2019 conducted many series of negotiations with russian colleagues, colleagues or not, i don’t know how to call them in principle, well, let’s say not colleagues . i understand that you were witnesses of the first minsk agreements and the second and participants in these negotiations , are they capable of any dialogue at all, are they capable of listening to ukrainians, are they all in a paradigm, as volodymyr says putin and in this anti-ukrainian campaign that is currently taking place in russia, of course i have not

talked to them for a long time. but nevertheless, i saw that the russian foreign ministry has gone on some kind of propaganda wave and he is absolutely not independent. he has never been uh, not independent like that. was always in some kind of er parallel reality and followed putin's instructions. you know that, once upon a time there was an international department in the communist party, so now the ministry of foreign affairs has turned into such an international department that well, as they say, where will they be sent, we do that's why i don't i see no independence in the actions of today's russian foreign ministry, and there will be none. everything will be decided by a narrow circle around putin and by putin personally. so forget pro-russian diplomacy there. the pentagon notes that the scale of

actions in russia has decreased and this means a decrease in the kremlin's ambitions. that's when they talk about a decrease in the kremlin's ambitions regarding ukraine, what does this mean? and i would never underestimate an enemy, especially one like putin, he can at any moment regroup and go further, he can put thousands more people in the south in the east so that to seize more of our lands and more ukrainians , he still doesn't care about people, people in the system of putin's regime are worthless, they are basically of no interest to anyone, that's why putin can go further and, moreover, he can try to calm down and lull everyone and then throw out some trick e- e shoulders he is almost driven

into a dead end about this biden recently said that he is worried and what will putin do in order to jump out of this dead end and from that there are talks in the west and let's avoid po humiliation let's save his face there, or what else is wrong with him, so unfortunately these are conversations that should bother us, but again, we really stopped one of the strongest armies in the world, and corruption in the russian army messes, nobody should be allowed into oman, this is real er surgical from this society from the armed forces er drive that we showed it is one of the coolest armies and hit it and by the way i am not sure that many aluminates could do what the

ukrainians were doing and are doing now but in unfortunately, putin still exists potential is a weapon and he perfectly understands that it is for him, as they say, or he is a dictator, or soon he will not be a dictator at all, so stop it, it does not mean that putin will not go further, let's not deceive ourselves again, that's what i'm talking about . things you mentioned about the north atlantic alliance e.e. last week, finland and sweden officially submitted applications to the nato headquarters to join the north atlantic alliance, there were a lot of comments about it erdogan's reaction the turkish side's reaction the russian reaction on this background, of course, there are a lot of questions about what putin actually achieved when he entered the territory of the ukrainian

state and said that our main task is to ensure that there are no nato missiles, nato missiles, that nato is not near our borders although nato is now closer than he thinks to the russian borders . well, a logical question arises if, uh, sweden and finland is joining nato, which actually prevents us. as you said, with such an army that is ready to defend the freedom and independence of the state and demonstrate incredible successes, what prevents us from submitting an application to nato because, well, in principle , finland has been a neutral state since 1945 and

promised that it will not be a member of the north atlantic alliance, it is this agreement or its agreement with the soviet union, it has already passed, that is, they are already joining nato, and we have obligations, but there are none in russia, which prevents us from applying for donations the only obstacle is the overly cautious position of some nato member countries, the reluctance to talk to putin from a position of strength, some kind of desire, which is completely incomprehensible to me, to avoid escalation, when before i was told that so you understand, but if putin goes to military action for war, now you can say yes , there is already a war and how much can you endlessly engage in boltology about ukraine 's membership in nato in finland, sweden will definitely be members of nato, they will solve their problems with russia. he has questions about the activities of

kursk e-e groups, but this will all be resolved . well, plus, he wants sanctions to discourage the purchase of russian air defense systems, he wants american planes, i think that what nato will get will become stronger as a result, ukraine will become even stronger. but for that, we need everyone to talk to you in relation to the eu, there are also skeptics, but there are also french and germans who say, well, if we now say, ok, donate to the ukrainian promotion, then putin will use nuclear weapons or something else, because what about this war that is going on now ours from russia is not about natani, about any guarantees in which putin does not believe, it is about the desire to destroy ukraine as such and putin really planned what

was supposed to happen in our country not as a war, but about special operations in other institutions, he wanted to put yanukovych still there, i don’t know, in an attack of schizophrenia, he considers it legitimate there to land landings on kyiv, capture and so on. well, since he was broken, he will continue to try more and more, in addition to waging war with us blackmail european countries and this is actually the main obstacle to our membership in nato. well, in the end, we have to convince the americans that ukraine in nato is a safer option for the entire transport community than ukraine outside the formal framework of nato. i am absolutely sure that this will happen again i say that after this war,

nothing will be arbitrary, i believe in it, i just feel it. by the way, when you talk about the fact that after our victory, there will be nothing of what is now in the world about the security system, including it is obvious that it will still be reformed or at least adapted to new realities, completely logical questions arise in what way can ukraine still preserve its independence, its freedom and people's lives and health and protect itself from an obsessive neighbor. there is the russian federation because, well, we will not be able to change our neighbor or at least somehow create certain borders that will protect us from the flight of cruise missiles or from strikes from the caspian sea or from the black sea. how do you see the future of ukraine in this

it is clear to the security system that we will be transferred to donat. but it is possible that there will be some additional internal e-e, there must be serious changes in the state in ukraine in order to ensure e-e. well, although the peace that is preserved and which is guarded much more carefully than it was before february 24, 2022 first of all, the armed forces of western weapons are real, well- trained, well-trained, integrated into western ones, as well as special services, as well as the production of weapons here in ukraine, and the latest ones. well, if we are using drones now, why can’t we use them we can produce all this in the future, the second moment is the american

and british nuclear umbrella until the moment of joining nato. well, these are the guarantees now until the moment of joining nato, but sweden , finland. well, why can’t we? did you hear what biden said about japan today? in this case, we should get the same thing. and then it really ensures our safety when we are cool and support us with a nuclear umbrella, everything else, some words . i don’t really believe in it. part of the security system in the future but nevertheless , we are entering a world in which, in the end, two things are valued: our ability to repel attacks and a concrete desire to close us with a nuclear strike if we are attacked by nuclear states, there are no

other options. today i really don't see. well, a very important point is related to economic and social stability. we have to be strong enough as a country and economically to support our armed forces and the entire security and defense sector. in fact, everything is very simple 1 2 3 today, mr. zelensky signed the law on the confiscation of assets of persons who support the aggression of the russian federation. we are talking about those people who called or are calling putin to come to ukraine . they did not consider, well, at least that is how we defined them, political parties, factions, including those in the verkhovna rada of ukraine, not the russian orthodox church, a branch and many, many other structures that

prepared or were co-authors of this russia's invasion of ukraine, now we see how in the verkhovna rada the opz faction is changing its name to some other name again in a lifetime and this transformation will obviously take place in the business that was oriented towards russia and in the representatives of this business in ukraine and maybe there will be some kind of transformation from the russian orthodox church, why is the ukrainian state so slow to respond to these challenges that the state faces from those people who threaten and have threatened and continue to threaten the national defense and security well, there are certainly fears about the destabilization that they can do. i

think that now is the time during the war, uh, to strictly ban all those structures that are either dependent on russia or cooperate with it, in the end it is not so much a question of even politics. well, of course our special services are there controlling them, this is a moral and worldview issue, we cannot cooperate with anyone who is really tied to russia, full stop, and here we need to approach absolutely systematically, ban all this and clean up the heel column. we are glad that yoder can be sanctioned. his privileges or offices are being taken away from him. well, yes, then let's look in the mirror and do everything we need here. the first steps are already there. zelenskyi is doing it well, but the fact is, of course, we need to prove to the logical end, and the war is just the best best time

for that, one more question at the end of our conversation, since i am faced with this question quite often now when western journalists invite me to a conversation and explain what is happening in they always ask ukraine the following, and please explain. how can it be that there is an azov regiment operating in ukraine, which is accused of nazism or fascism? there are a lot of questions about this, about these narratives that russian propaganda imposes in europe. i think that you are also faced with these questions, and representatives of italy, portugal and holland asked me about the weeding of azov, why there is no effective propaganda or counter-propaganda in ukraine. information from russia from russian propaganda channels and why our propaganda machine still does

not work the way the russian one works in russia and does not convey the truth about what is happening in ukraine , why? i think that we will actually win the information war in the west. he throws a lot of money at the gas station, and in fact, especially over there, italy. indeed , russian propaganda is very noticeable there. they try to use the representative companies of the companies that sit there, they are there they buy everyone in bulk at retail, that’s all in fact. it’s known and we just have to approach it very systematically and allocate the countries to appoint responsible people for them. uh, that is, people saw mariupol on the screens, they saw the heroism

of azola, they understood what azov was really about, and for me it was such a landmark, very symbolic decision, you probably remember when the japanese removed uh, azov from the list of terrorist organizations, the japanese before that they always have a very close plan, they study every detail like that, and then they ask everyone there and what they cleaned, because this is actually such a significant change, eh, after all, the event is now ideologically treated in a completely different way, but the information war will not stop and it is necessary to conduct 24 /7 et seq. and after the victory, it will be necessary to lead, and here the state and the ukrainians, giving ukrainians, joined it very cool . call for everyone using these parts of our conversation, don't get

it, don't, uh, as they say, don't give up. go forward, it's very, very important. don't refuse to communicate. nothing works as well as personal conversations with those who you know in the west, now there are millions of ukrainians in the west, so use each and every chance, and i try to do it, you and i think that in the information war, then the victory will be for thank you, mr. pavla, for this optimistic, well, we will put an end to our conversation. this was pavlo klimkin, diplomat, politician, minister of foreign affairs of ukraine in 2014-2019, mr. pavlo. i wish you good health and all the best for our viewers. on this video if you are watching us now on youtube

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