will be in the thousands if the count goes to tens of thousands of dead up to 20 thousand dead er about 20 thousand yes actually peaceful results of shelling under rubble remained dead and destroyed houses yes yes how will we actually proceed to the conversation with mykola kuleba listen let's see the story of our journalists about children whose childhood war ended before it even started, i am asking for fresh material from the espresso editorial office, humanity for them has long been no longer a virtue, the engineering convention has lost its meaning because as early as 2019, the russian federation partially withdrew from the international treaty on the protection of civilians during the war, the relevant law was signed by the permanent master of the kremlin, putin, and since then considers fascist russia not

treacherous to the un. more than 600 young ukrainians were injured by the russian occupiers, at least 234 children were killed, more than four hundred were injured. these are the data of the prosecutor general's office as of the third month of the war 93% of all the children who sought medical help are children who received explosive landmine or gunshot wounds. that is, we can say that the russian federation is fighting against our children with our children in the office of the ombudsmen. actions or in the temporarily occupied territories, it would seem worse, it was time to invent, however , hundreds of cases of rape of children are recorded every day in ukraine, and russian military maniacs become victims both minor girls and babies, only

officially recorded more than four hundred appeals, and this is genocide, that is, the signs of genocide - this is social violence against our girls and women until they do not want or will not be able to give birth to children, moreover, the russians also kidnap our children from the beginning of a full-scale invasion, the invaders are forcibly taking more than 2,000 children from ukraine, first of all, they are in a hurry to russify them, then the children, if the territories are liberated. programs in the summer period, colleagues, the relevant department will organize ny kuzhiklasniki to believe that the russian authorities claim that about 200,000 children from dangerous zones were taken out of ukraine, but there is still no talk of their return to the motherland, as well as the identical product commentary is lost, they mean in russian, they want them to be

russian there traditions, that is, they simply destroy the ethnicity, the ethnic identity of our children, and this is genocide, every day at least one ukrainian dies from russian attacks how many children are taken to russia by their occupiers is not known for sure, however, ukraine does not stop trying to return the children home, recently it was possible to free and return to their relatives two children who were forcibly deported from mariupol, ulyana hryschuk , tv channel expresso, what else did we watch the materials of espresso journalists for the international day of missing children and we have inclusion to this topic , mykola kuleba, the authorized representative of the president of ukraine on the rights of the child in 2014, 21 years old and the head of the mutual aid center, we will save ukraine, congratulations, sir

mykola, please turn on the sound because we can't hear you. i will ask my question for now. mykola jes, you were the representative of the president of ukraine on children's rights for 7 years. who are you rescuing? every day we are the special operations of ukraine on pip and a special tractor , ambulances, ambulances, these are armored cars and armored buses, there are more than 40 units of transport, there are teams and volunteer teams, and we will rescue teams every day, depending on the situation, we evacuate ukraine from 200 to 500 people, of which a large number are families with children who today are hiding

from enemy shells in basements and, unfortunately, not everyone wants to leave today, and many remain, many are afraid of time there is no way to form trusting relationships and families could leave safely, but during all this time we have not had a single situation where someone's friends were killed, although we have had situations where our drivers were killed during shelling. we plan these operations very carefully on evacuation and by the way, yesterday seriously ill people were taken out because we take out not only families with children but also old people who are found lying down and of course many families have their uh grandparents and uh- many of the parents do not

leave them alone, and this is the reason that they do not want to leave the shelling, so we try to take families out, because it is very important that the family stays together in a safe area , and also those families who want to go abroad, we help them go abroad, mr. mykola you know, they immediately remembered listening to you about this story , how a teacher from chernihiv saved 30 children from a rehabilitation center, actually from a shelter for children, they hid in the basement of a boarding school for seven days under shelling, the building was blown up, and here is this teacher who had her own children two of whom she also took to the same bomb shelter, she stayed there all the time with her children and stayed for 11 days without electricity and water, then she took them all through the

green corridor to kyiv and on to ivano-frankivsk. this is just an incredible story. here, during the war, new heroic stories are being born, our ukrainian peasants, in general, what are the difficulties and the main challenges if we are talking about the evacuation of children, and especially if we are really talking about children who are without care, about those children who , er, are deprived children with disabilities who are under parental care and are in boarding schools in orphanages all over the country, what does it look like in your eyes, have you given an example of truly heroic efforts of educators, but you know, if there is a green corridor, but if there is no corridor, i literally have several a few days ago, i talked to a family that we

are helping now, she is from one of our centers, and they were located in the occupation near the headquarters of the russian troops who did not allow them to leave, and on the day when the mother and children had their father killed right in front of them. they decided to run away . they were walking and they were fired upon. they remember how it happened. met our soldiers, hid them, then we delivered them already to a safe place, and there are many such stories, they are very traumatized, now they need rehabilitation, and we provide just that, but you know when children are in families under occupation and the only thing they are

offered is to leave for the territory of the russian federation or, uh, they are forcibly deported and about one and a half million such people were deported or created conditions under which they could not be moved to the controlled territory, and if it is also a child with a disability or an orphan, well, it is in general a crime, and it is not possible to qualify it in a different way today, but our organization is also calling us today from families and volunteers from that side who know about such cases . we are trying to help them because if documents are lost or there, the russian authorities believe that they are not properly organized in this family, it is very

difficult to get to ukraine and take the children out quite often, they are adults and the father is separated from the filtration camp, they send or say you leave the children here, if you do not have documents, go there to ukraine and complete your documents, that's why we are constantly either the mother, as in the case of the mariupol case with the medic viktoria odinina, whose four-year-old daughter alisa was released from the occupied city, and the mother, no, she remained in the filtration camp, now the whole world is there, in fact, human rights organizations they are appealing to those who have influence on the russian leadership to release the mother from the filtration camp and unite the mother and the child, well, these are such stories. they are at every step. in fact, this story is public and not there are thousands of public stories, mr. mykola, well,

let's say that nataliya pesotska is the name of this heroine of ukraine, a teacher of a children's shelter who saved 30 children in chernihiv oblast, but if we talk about the latest data, the data of the office of the commissioner of ukraine, this is a human rights issue, and we see the impressive number of atrocities committed by the occupiers against children, how to explain such actions of the enemy. what goals does it pursue? where in general does such cruelty come from in russian society that we can oppose it? well, look here and the facts about which we learned today in the territories freed from occupation prove one thing: they came to kill, they came to destroy, and what we say today, calling it genocide, is confirmed because the military has received an order

to kill, enslave and show that if you do not to obey us, then you will all be killed, that's why entry entry everything goes and raping children, men, women and killing their parents in front of the children because uh, the russian teams need to show that they have come to dominate that they they came to conquer, that's why they want to show their power, they want everyone to fear them, but what we see is how the ukrainian people are heroically resisting this influx, that no one is going to give up a single meter of territory today, and we as a people are ready to fight for our children because they are ours children are their future and their future in our

country, therefore, in principle, the russians have already proven to the whole world that they are enslavers, that they are rapists, and that they are murderers, and they confirm this every day by killing our children, adults, and us. we already know about bucha, about irpin borodyanka, but we still don't know everything about mariupol, we can only guess, uh, how many murders, intentional murders , everything that happened in mariupol, uh, we heard something from our soldiers, from those civilians who reached the liberated territory, to the controlled territories , but how many are still in the filtration camps, how many family members were enslaved, and how and which relatives were killed?

the occupiers, but unfortunately we will not be able to return thousands and thousands of those ukrainians who were raped and brutally murdered. but i believe that the russian federation will answer before the military tribunal for these crimes, to be honest, with this post-traumatic experience, how should we accept it now, how can you in the end you give help to those who passed it completely and how is it possible to involve our western partners in this, as well as experts and specialists who are in the west and know how to rehabilitate victims of the war and actually persons with a traumatic experience and, above all, children, does your center already have work in this direction, in the direction of actual rehabilitation, which will

definitely be needed in huge volumes after the war, it is needed even now, but we understand that in such volumes, too, we are not we have such a number of specialists, yes, but we don't have, we won't have time to train them, it needs to be done right now, this is how it looks with your eyes, mykola and a large number of children who are injured today, who suffered as a result of this war. she is just impressive and not only for our specialists but also for the whole world and every ukrainian child can officially say that every ukrainian child was traumatized by the war, both those who were displaced within the country and those who were displaced abroad. and this is almost 60% of children and also those children who were not displaced but forced to live today under or under shelling or in the occupied territory or in the

controlled but constantly hearing sirens and hiding in the basements of the premises, this is quite a serious injury, so of course it is very difficult to provide such help on our own, our organization today works with those children who are in our orbit, i can confirm that these are quite serious consequences today. these children have but the first thing - the number one thing is that we always tell parents that children must be given the opportunity to live in a safe place, so we take them to safe areas every day secondly, it is necessary to provide high-quality help to these children, but first of all, it is possible if the parents are nearby and they are not in a state of hysteria, so we call on the parents and, above all, we work with the parents. how should we behave? so that the child finds peace and begins to recover

. thirdly, these are already those specialists who, unfortunately , abroad, if they are, there is a language barrier, because if it is poland or other countries where there are many ukrainian children today, it is very difficult for them to communicate with specialists because they are linguistic barriers, literally after the end of the broadcast, i will conduct a zoom with my team for we are starting a new project in several countries precisely for such parents and for their children and for teenagers in order that through such work training remotely and there where will our trainer be and offline provide support to such parents through conducting such trainings and teenagers what we did through the all-ukrainian children's council before the war, we are now continuing by restoring these programs, but already these programs are designed for

children who suffered from the war for that to provide them with psychological support to provide recovery to provide advice that will help them recover because it is very difficult today imagine when a teenager or a child, not even a teenager, the answer was at home herself to school, she played in the yard with her friends and suddenly she loses everything. she is in another country next to her. she sees other children who speak other languages, and this is also a trauma. children must be taught to live in such conditions, that's why we start such programs who supported and helped the child adapt to new conditions . today is the international day of missing children . we can see that the latest statistics from the president's commissioner for children's rights, daria gerasimchuk, are for may 14, from february 24 to may 14, respectively.

this year, due to the russian attack, more than 1,200 children have already gone missing in ukraine, and this is how the situation looks according to your data: firstly , and secondly, you have already talked about the deportations and forced removal of our fellow citizens, including children, in the territory and temporarily occupied and we know deep down in the russian federation that laws are being passed in russia right now that make it easier for russians to adopt small ukrainians. please, mykola look. well, it is currently impossible to name the children who suffered and the children who were taken away, and what ms. daria gerasimchuk named is what is confirmed, what children were called about , what is recorded, but how many more children are unaccompanied

by legal representatives in the territory of the russian federation? it is impossible because well, if their family members were killed er and or they did not officially apply, did not register this application, again then we cannot know about this child and i want to contact those various family members now that are in the controlled territory, please call the police. register your complaint that the child is your relative and the child and you do not know where she is, that it was successful, and it has already enabled the law enforcement agencies to conduct a search and record the same the fact that there is no connection between the whole child and the whole family is another thing, i would not now separate missing children, but also missing families with children, because if a mother and a child or

parents with children disappear somewhere, information about them is unknown e- e although they are located or have moved or they were forcibly taken to the territory, these are also missing children and disappearances together with their parents. i sometimes talk to those parents who call me and believe me, they are already from that territory or with the russian federation from the occupied territories , they are very afraid to speak because they are afraid that it will tracked by russian orcs, but they talk about how they passed through the filtering bors, how their fathers and husbands remain in the filtering camps, how the photos are deleted, any information how he is frightened by how all this is being forced and it is a genocide of the ukrainian people of ukrainian children of families and

this is not human suffering that our children are going through, but answering your questions i will say that literally i will say that today negotiations are being conducted and these cases are being recorded and by international organizations until the moment when we do not have the opportunity to access these children of these parents and the opportunity to punish the criminals. therefore, it is important to note that we do not have any opportunities to return legally because all acts illegally under these conditions. it is very difficult to do. mykola kuleba, the representative of the president of ukraine on children's rights in the 14th and 21st years, an expert on the protection of children's rights. data from

the un today confirmed the death of 3,000-942 civilians due to russia's war in ukraine, and the prosecutor general's office also provides official statistics of those who were counted. it is possible to bury a body. that 's 238 children. well, let's correlate this with data from mariupol during the russian occupation of mariupol 22,000 people died, these are today's data from the city mayor's adviser, petro andryushchenko, which he cited to all nn well, we understand that we can neither count these people nor bury them, the territory of the city is temporarily occupied by the russian army and actually this complicates any calculations well, but it is clear that always in wars, big wars. moreover , in great wars, the abolition of aviation artillery, where they apply specifically to civilian objects, this is actually a tactic of the russian offensive army, it is obvious that the death of civilians is always happens many times more than deaths among the military,

this is the cruel arithmetic of great warriors, and it is obvious that in ukraine it is now fully activated. here is a psychologist and human rights defenders with us on the phone, congratulations ms. larisa, three months of war, the first day of the fourth, and today is the international day of missing children the day before, the ombudsman of ukraine, the representative of the verkhovna rada of ukraine for human rights, denisovy, published the terrible facts of the atrocities of the occupiers, the abuse of children, who took the lives of babies, young children, who are simply in their heads people are not invested in. i wanted to talk to you about another aspect. we briefly touched on the fact that we still need to rehabilitate our victims of the war. today, our victims of this war are being rehabilitated. those who managed to go abroad are being rehabilitated in poland in other

countries where our e fellow citizens find shelter during this war, we will be engaged in the rehabilitation of this for a very long time after the war, i briefly talked about it with mykola kuleba, and here is the question for you: how is our society and this knowledge to live on and how to overcome trauma in that part of our society that was not directly affected but is an indirect witness of these tortures and rapes, including against children through social networks, you know the most eloquent here is the post of my friend in her blog wrote that after new data from denisova, i simply died , how can i resurrect, how can i continue to live, so that you answer her the fact is that when we read similar stories, we cannot remain detached from them, this is human nature in such empathy we are trying to somehow take the side of the victim somehow uh to

help all this somehow sympathize empathy is one of the best human qualities it is the mechanism that allows us to be together but at the same time when we face you with such terrible stories empathy plays a completely different role it uh- it puts us in the role of the victim and makes us powerless because, classically, in any situation of violence, psychological roles are divided into three components: the aggressor, the victim of aggression, and the defender, in this case when a person reads like this or hears about a similar story. she, through a sympathetic mechanism, takes the side of the victim, she takes her role, and that's why this situation of powerlessness arises when i imagine what they

went through, definitely. the victim in this story is absolutely helpless, she is unprotected, she can not she is powerless because to show any strength in a situation when a whole terrible system is against you and we know that it is a system because the russian federation putin personally rewards people against whom there were accusations of torturing and raping children he i did it personally, so in this case the crime is the system and it is the system that encourages this violence. and here is the victim. she is an ordinary person in this situation. she is completely powerless when she gets into this situation, and here is an outsider, you are like anyone. reading this story, the people of the victims also feel it is powerlessness that paralyzes, therefore, from the point of view of the psyche, from the point of view of psychology, it is necessary to take on the

role of the defender. we must forget about this story, we must protect it, this is what we have to do, because we have a negative experience in the 14th year. we all remember this story of dr. liza who came to the occupied territory of donbas and took our children somewhere, no one knows the fate of these children, where are they, we know that in crimea there were three er grandfather houses of orphanages, somewhere , people, where are these children, that is, the fact is that if we take on the role of a victim after a while, our psyche begins to protect us. accordingly, we begin to squeeze out this information. we forget only from the position of the indicator, the number of positions of those who will never forget, who did not survive this situation , but that is why he remained unharmed and can aggress, can defend, can pursue the

criminal of the father. you hear such a story someone tells you and you sit next to you sobbing as if you experienced it so unconditionally it is empathetic it is noble but the fact is that the real victim at this moment is myself for what found themselves in this situation, this is a psychological mechanism of a person, why is she powerless, she still tries to throw aggression somewhere, if they are on the wall on the aggressor, then she begins to vote for herself and is really a victim. while you sit sobbing and try to imagine what she really went through at this moment, the victim is already mentally torturing himself, already psycho, why didn't she run away, why did she leave, why did she say, why didn't she say, why did she read , why didn't she write at this moment, if you want to help this person, be aggressive. say what literally, i can't even imagine what you've been through, but i hate these people so much, i want them to be

punished. i won't stop at everyone, it's right. larisa voloshina advises us to draw inspiration and strength. thank you very much for this conversation. for this inclusion, well, at this point, we will say goodbye to make peace, a human rights defender and a psychologist were in touch with us. from our broadcasts, larisa voloshina told that this is such a slow boom that the russians, without realizing it, are laying inside themselves, plunging these deported and kidnapped ukrainians of ours into their